Why John Butler Left Jehovah's Witnesses

[Srecko Sostar]

4 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

f his concern was with all institution he would have stated this, but he has not, for his one and only focus, as it is evident in half of his posts, is regarding Jehovah's Witnesses only unless you want to point out to where his concern is drawn out elsewhere - be my guess.

that is his right, and his decision. maybe will change in this or that direction. so it is not good from you to criticizing his stand in this in this particular moment :)) 

[Space Merchant]

On 10/19/2018 at 2:05 PM, Srecko Sostar said:

SM, when you say "the world", that also including "WTJWORG world" in general concept of word "the world" too? :))

Clearly you didn't get my response and throw the WT into everything.

You want to play that game, then tell me.

• Can you give me any evidence and or proof of WT/Jehovah's Witnesses being openly acceptive of Gay Marriages in their churches?
• Perhaps prompting the teaching of Sodomy and brazen conduct to children because it is suppose to be okay, which also falls in line to intercourse before marriage?
• Can you point to or show me any Jehovah's Witnesses involved in those making pedophilia a sexual orientation, hence my quote.
• Do Jehovah's Witnesses profit and dwell in human trafficking, granted my react quote was the following:

Child Abuse happens in all communities, an increased statistics out there regarding those who practice homosexuality, especially men. Child Abuse will always be an issue because the world seems to openly accept such a thing, some wanting it to be a sexual preference and the like.

So enlighten me, Srecko, you want to quote that small portion of my words thinking it may I am referring to something else when my own words is clear. After all, you wanted to quote part B of my response, so let's see the answer about being part of the world from you in this regard of which is mentioned.

 

And no, it isn't a general concept... Re-read my response and I will do you the favor of linking for you here:

 

 

 

[Space Merchant]

19 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

that is his right, and his decision. maybe will change in this or that direction. so it is not good from you to criticizing his stand in this in this particular moment :)) 

Then why is your words like this now to how it was before? And as to where and when have I criticized his stance? Show me.

He says to me and someone else that it is not of our concern, however the problem here is those who knows the full extent to the problems of Child Abuse on a global scale sees the problems in ALL institutions, not one, not two, but all of them, granted children are scattered through all such things, schools, churches, what have you.

Abusers of all kinds lurk in all areas, they work to get a position of power to seek out a target, and the like. The US is lucky no type of Jungle Justice is at play here otherwise things would get bloody fast.

That being said, it is taking place in Restaurants - and yes, children there are of the concern of people who are aware of the imperfection that is aligned with child abuse.

So no one should be ignoring others.

And no, Butler made his stance clearly the first time he brought this up regarding ARC a while back and it is evident in his later posts - haven't you read them, I believe that you posted in those threads also.

I leave you with this question. If you believe the focus of child abuse happening to one group is of high importance and them alone, why choose to ignore all other children whereas child abuse is also the case with them, perhaps to us Unitarians, wanna ignore the children there too? What of those affected by grooming Gangs, those who have been Gang-Stalked, turned into sex slaves, ignore them too for the sake one of person of a group or and race?

A simple minded person who has logical thinking would be concern with all churches, all schools, all restaurants, all clubs, etc.

[JOHN BUTLER]

@BillyTheKid46 Judge me as you will. I know it's impossible to convince those that are just puppets of JW Org. 

I still have love for God and Jesus Christ, but not the GB of JW Org, that is simple enough even for you to understand, but you do not wish to believe me as it knocks the GB and the Org so upsets you.  

You surely know how Jesus spoke to the Pharisees and it wasn't always kindly was it ? Just because i speak a little wildly sometimes doesn't mean I don't love God, Jesus, or truth.  

As for me only reading what Barbara Anderson wrote, what nonsense. IT IS EARTHWIDE, NOT JUST IN ONE PLACE.

There are JW's, even Elders still in the Org, using false names and giving information, not wanting to leave the Org but wanting to get things sorted out and the truth told. It's not my place to name names, or get others into trouble. 

The GB of JW org does not use Biblical standards, it uses worldly legal standards now. It has two legal departments, one in JW Org and one in W/T. 

If you want Biblical standards, here's one at Matthew 18 v 6.

⁶  But whoever stumbles one of these little ones who have faith in me, it would be better for him to have hung around his neck a millstone that is turned by a donkey and to be sunk in the open sea.

One of these little ones. The GB's rules and the puppet Elders have stumbled thousands of children and adults... You probably don't believe the amount of people leaving the Org either, and yes i mean leaving not being disfellowshipped. 

So, walk on. Ignore. Pretend it's not true. I wish you well. No hard feelings. We have different viewpoints, so be it. 

 

[Space Merchant]

@Srecko Sostar 

And of course I will not get that information granted you yourself quoted what I was saying - therefore unfounded.

It is such ones like you who cause the befelling of those in Texas. Many, myself included today were speaking about Babylon's religion that is converting people by the masses - live, pushing people to their teachings resulting in a crippling stumble to actual Christianity.

[Anna]

59 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

So, what make him better or worse than me, or someone else here or there? :))  

That is not my objective at all, to make someone better or worse. I already said that a lot of decisions are based on complex factors, such as personality, experience and perception...etc. Also different people process information differently. But that's not what I am talking about. What I am interested in is actual facts. Does one person have more facts than the other upon which they base their decision? And what are those facts?

[JOHN BUTLER]

52 minutes ago, Anna said:

I don't see why JW's wont believe this, as it's pretty much how many cases were handled, although a few words were a little loaded showing obvious bias.

As far as I know @JW Insider is an active Witness. If so, perhaps he would like to explain why he didn't leave the org.  Sorry JW Insider if I put you on the spot, but this goes back to my conversation with John Butler where I pointed out that I have probably read the same kind of information as him, but why is it that it made him leave, and why am I staying. I know it's a lot more complex than that. There are a lot of factors at play in including personality, experience, honesty, trust etc. Unfortunately our conversation trailed off, maybe it can be restarted again since the topic is "why John Butler left Jehovah's Witnesses" (the topic I never started, the librarian was at it again)

Well it seems as if Billy the Kid doesn't believe such things, nor True tom. 

As for why I left and you didn't, different personalities etc, yes probably. And a lot to do with the fact that i got fed up with being told to be 'humble' about everything, which doesn't actually mean be humble it means shut up and do as you are told. 

As for restarting our conversation, most people here are fed up with hearing from me. Understandable I suppose as truth hurts when it is unpleasant..  

I know you didn't start it Anna, nor would you have I'm sure.  

I suppose being turned away from a Kingdom Hall once (Reading my hometown),  being told I couldn't get baptised when i was ready, then being told when to get baptised when i wasn't ready, being in a congregation where an Elder commited suicide (Bristol ), having the teachings I'd been taught at first changed to different teachings, seeing another Elder disfellowshipped and police involved, being threatened with being disfellowshipped for slander, and then a brother being murdered in 'our' Kingdom Hall, then all this Child Abuse problem Earthwide, well it all added up. But up until the time I found out about the Child Abuse problem, i was being humble, doing as I was told, I was hanging in there....  

The JW Org has been no pleasure to me, not because of opposition from outside, but because of what i've seen from inside. 

[Grey Reformer]

This is how far sexual child abuse exploitation has gone. An innocent 9-year-old black child accidentally pumps a white woman’s behind with his backpack, and she called it sexual assault. This should demonstrate the over exaggeration and propaganda modern technology has made for those that want to seek the truth in a pile of lies.

 

The other thing no one has commented on, Women that sexually abuse children. Even the internet is biased if you google it. No one wants to believe that a woman could do such horrors when they're no different than men. Sexual appetite goes both ways, and if you look at history, twice on Sunday. How many female teachers have been caught having an affair with a student?

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/crime--law/palm-beach-gardens-woman-accused-sexually-abusing-child-for-years/NWDK1GXCzhLCLqT5ZkmcQO/

https://www.pe.com/2018/09/01/man-woman-in-adelanto-arrested-on-suspicion-of-child-sexual-abuse/

https://wjla.com/news/nation-world/33-year-old-woman-accused-of-sexually-assaulting-a-child

https://www.newsweek.com/mother-films-herself-sexually-abusing-her-young-children-please-men-she-meets-1145946

https://ktul.com/archive/woman-arrested-for-enabling-sexual-abuse-of-her-daughter

http://www.kulr8.com/story/38109913/cheney-woman-arrested-accused-of-molesting-child-on-camera

https://helenair.com/news/crime-and-courts/helena-woman-accused-of-delivering-girls-to-rapist-to-be/article_b171c1d2-b90d-5255-8266-f67fb44ef253.html

https://missoulian.com/news/local/montana-state-prison-female-prison-guards-fired-for-sexual-misconduct/article_0a2e25e4-2f8a-11df-9127-001cc4c03286.html

This one-sided argument does no one any good, get on with your lives, since women can be just as disgusting as men, no matter where you look, you’ll find it.

On another note.

The term restorationist, while it includes Bible students and Jehovah witnesses, doesn’t quite do justice to what the Watchtower really means and stands for.

 The early church father corrupted Jesus true definition with their interpretation of the apostle creed, which finds support even with Unitarians.

 Pastor Russell sought to go beyond the restorationist’s movement which is many since he saw the flaws within the restoration movement that he was determined to set the bible students apart from. So, restorationists with a twist of revisionism could probably describe the Watchtowers intent with this scripture. 1 Timothy 3:14-16

 This brings a more ecclesiastical balance to the truth and the way. The Watchtower has no intermediary other than Gods truth, and that’s the purpose of the Watchtower. How close can they come to Jesus words with what is known, and new things that are found, within linguistic and interpretation in the best possible way.

[Space Merchant]

@Grey Reformer Yes, the situation with the child and the woman stems to even the black community to which alarms have been sound, loudly, the same goes for the woman who blocked and followed a young man to his home. Because of this ordeal, the child does not want seek the forgiveness of the woman because it [the woman's false claim] is that great.

As with Law, there is often a double standard when it comes to a person of a race/color or their sex, for a woman tends to get away easier with some crimes, which includes things like child abuse and the like compared to men, to whom they tend to crucify far greater their their female abusing counterparts.

And yes, everything from the Creed and onward is messed up, even that of spurious text, but before those days, no one spoke of the Son being God, and yet later one there was a argument and fight about it, present day, people believe it too, and if you speak the truth, they will try to attack you for it,mainly when you pull the facts straight from the Bible, to which it can get frustrating when dealing with those who adhere to accursed things and corruption.

[Space Merchant]

@Anna Not to mention personal feelings, opinions and emotions being thrown to justify something that is no Scriptural. There is often a whole lot of that, mainly when it comes to some prophets like Moses, or that of a disciples, or an Apostle like Paul, some being willing to tear out everything connecting to Paul's writings from the Bible itself.

[Anna]

8 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I suppose being turned away from a Kingdom Hall once (Reading my hometown),  being told I couldn't get baptised when i was ready, then being told when to get baptised when i wasn't ready, being in a congregation where an Elder commited suicide (Bristol ), having the teachings I'd been taught at first changed to different teachings, seeing another Elder disfellowshipped and police involved, being threatened with being disfellowshipped for slander, and then a brother being murdered in 'our' Kingdom Hall.....

The JW Org has been no pleasure to me,

It doesn't sound like it!

[Anna]

@JOHN BUTLER here is a recent case from the UK.  It seem that the authorities were the ones that delayed. This is a good example of the fact that reporting to authorities does not automatically assure success. You can read the whole article here:

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/devious-righteous-christian-raped-two-15274172

An "arrogant" Jehovah's Witness subjected two girls under the age of 13 to years of systematic assaults and rapes.

Roy Collins, 80, was branded as "devious, righteous and arrogant" by a judge at Swansea Crown Court.

He had spent a decade systematically grooming, abusing and raping the two girls.

At one point during his campaign of abuse, one of their mothers burst into the Jehovah's Witness church in Swansea and publicly accused him of being a paedophile only to receive a letter from his solicitors warning her not to harass him.

Carline Rees QC, for the prosecution, read out impact statements from the two victims.

One said she had lived with the abuse for years before telling her family.

When she did so, the news had a "devastating effect" on her mother.

She said the abuse had an "significant impact" on her life, adding: "Every day I am happy if I can just make it through".

In her statement, the second victim said the abuse had led to her have trouble at school and to start taking drugs to try to "block out" what was happening. She said her suffering and pain continues to this day.

The court heard that one of the victims made a complaint about Collins in the 1990s, but he was not prosecuted.

The allegations were reported to the police again in 2013 - but it took five years for the matter to come to court.

Judge Geraint Walters told the defendant that his actions during the 1980s and 90s had been "truly wicked".

He described Collins as a "devious, arrogant and self-righteous man" who had lived behind veil of respectability partly through his contact with the Jehovah's Witness church.

The judge said that an example of his deviousness was the fact that when the allegations against him started to be investigated, he went to his GP claiming that he had suffered erectile dysfunction for the last 30 years.

Judge Walters said: "You are, in my judgement, a devious man, a self-righteous and arrogant man. You have shown no remorse what-so-ever towards your victims or anybody else.

"You have lived the better part of you life, you have been able to do that - your victims have not.

"There is no sentence I can pass that will restore the lives of the victims to what they might have been but for your behaviour."

He added that the case showed that when allegations of sexual abuse were made they should be tested and investigated not disbelieved.

He called the the five year delay in the case eventually coming to court "unforgivable".

But he praised the officer who eventually took-over the case and saw it through to conviction, saying that for the first time the victims had been treated with the dignity they deserved.