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Jehovah's Witnesses' "Hailstone Message"

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I've been out for awhile... but I hear of many current JW's referring to themselves as part of some "Hailstone Message".

Can someone clarify what it is they mean?

hail GIF

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22 minutes ago, Jack Ryan said:

I've been out for awhile... but I hear of many current JW's referring to themselves as part of some "Hailstone Message".

Can someone clarify what it is they mean?

hail GIF

No, you misunderstand. That is Hailstone Massage. It’s the latest craze in health care fads and many of the top Bethelites have gone in for it whole hog.

It is so embarrassing.

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Reminds me of when I was a teenager, still living at my parent's home, and I decided to toughen myself up, I would sleep on an Indian Fakir bed of plywood with about a thousand and fifty nails sticking up, but turning over made me wet the bed, and the nails got rusty. and the screaming kept my mother awake.

WHOAAA! .... and talk about trying to get fitted sheets!

....ever try to get twin size fitted sheets with 1,050 correctly spaced buttonholes?

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3 hours ago, Arauna said:

Yea - then you have another date which was predicted to slam us with!!

Arauna I refrain discussing anything with you, I feel you don't know how to talk to people in a respectful manner., You are always dimmining other person's points of view.

 

 

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1 hour ago, JJJ-AUSTRALIA said:

are always dimmining other person's points of view.

Apologies, if I came across disrespectful. Unfortunately there are so many people on here which do not even respect God.  I know I should be kinder to them but they are really hardened in their hate of JWs and only find fault.  They do not come across as reasonable at all. Some come here to troll or mislead. 

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Ryan what is meant by hailstone message is the type that will be delivered very weighty maybe but unknown at this time perhaps that this system is ending which many folks love although they complain 

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3 hours ago, Anna said:

They mean they're speculating

I think all were openly joking.  I put in a snide remark aimed at the opposers but it was taken personally because I happened to quote only one person and not all. (apologies again).

I see "water" of truth  which is hardened like hail - to hurt.   These hailstones according to prophecy weigh a talent (close to 33 pounds, I presume).

A hailstorm the size of golf balls can be devastating. Imagine receiving the truth weighing a talent - it will be devastating!

Welcome back Anna!  I missed you.

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When Jehovah kills the billions of people who are not baptized publishers, he's gonna kill the ones living in North America with hailstones, the ones in Africa he'll kill with fireballs, the ones in Russia, grizzly bears...so on and so forth.

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25 minutes ago, Matthew9969 said:

he's gonna kill the ones living in North America with hailstones, the ones in Africa he'll kill with fireballs, the ones in Russia, grizzly bears...so on and so forth.

Grizzly bears falling from the sky—what are you, nuts?

Destruction of “the wicked” on the Lord’s Day/Day of Judgment is a persistent theme of the Bible. I believe you still pass yourself off as religious. How do you deal with such verses? Do you sweep them under the rug as something embarrassing?

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The seventh plague poured out upon the air or spirit of this world accomplishes these things and also much more, because it affects the atmosphere itself. Therefore Revelation 16:21 continues: “And a great hail with every stone about the weight of a talent descended out of heaven upon the men, and the men blasphemed God due to the plague of hail, because the plague of it was unusually great.” So from the atmosphere there crash down hailstones on men, hailstones of tremendous size, weighing ninety-six pounds avoirdupois. They fall with great speed and cause stupendous destruction. Since hailstones are congealed water, this hailstorm pictures that heaven would send down upon worldly mankind a barrage of hard Biblical truths. Jehovah’s witnesses are now preaching a message of deliverance and salvation for those who will take refuge in the Kingdom, which cannot be shaken. But the hailstones picture, not a message of deliverance, but the hard, unyielding proclamation of God’s vengeance against Satan’s visible organization. Jehovah’s witnesses will at the last deliver this stinging message, presaging the destruction of the men upon whom it falls.
The men who are affected by this hailstorm are those who did not call upon the name of Jehovah for salvation, but who blasphemed him at hearing the judgment messages and the execution of these. They refused in the past to hear the message that would have meant salvation for them and now they especially hate this condemning declaration. (Joel 2:32; Rom. 10:13) The fact that the plague of it was unusually great foreshows that at the last there will be an unusually great proclamation of God’s vengeance by Jehovah’s witnesses.
That the seventh plague will indeed finish the anger of God upon the world is illustrated in the picture here given in Revelation. It indicates that those who survive the symbolic earthquake will without fail be destroyed by the accurately aimed executional hailstones from the heavens. Not that the truths themselves kill them, but the judgments that God executes in harmony with the truths expressed.—Job 38:22, 23; Ps. 148:7, 8; Isa. 28:2-17.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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On 12/23/2019 at 4:41 AM, JJJ-AUSTRALIA said:

The Hailstone message has to do with proclamation of Armageddon which is going to happen any day now.

In Noah's day you new when the Ark was near completion that you would either see rain or that it was all hoax! Which was it?

When Moses returned to Egypt, sign on top of sign led to the culmination and the answer to the question would the slaves be delivered after 400 years? Gen.15:13

The Bible foretold Jesus birth. He grew to be a perfect human man who would show sign on top of sign for 3-1/2 years culminating in a partial fulfillment of Gen.3:15.

140 years ago, a man described the Kingdom of God and the End of the Gentile times. 1914 and WW1 were evidence of of the Birth of God's Kingdom in Heaven by the Anointing of Jesus as it's 1st King. The Apostles of Christ and other 1st century disciples were then raised from corruption to glory as Kings of that Kingdom.As the number of the Anointed neared 144,000 the Other Sheep became recognized as future citizens of a government expressing Jehovah's sovereignty towards the Earth.

Now the Good News that was foretold to encompass the Earth at Mtt.24:14 and Mrk 13:10 is now witnessed as nearing completion.

Soon every person on Earth will learn whether Jehovah is God and is Motivating Jehovah's Witnesses to preach the Good News as a prophet in our midst or its all a hoax. We approach the culmination of 140 years of God's Search for friends. We must see Sign in sun,moon and stars as evidence that Daniel 7:26 has begun. God has sat down to Judge the living and then the dead.

There is no need to foretell a date, only the culmination of the expressed will of God and the many facets we see day after day. Once these things begin the "hailstone" is that is to late to kneel to God newly expressing reverence. Mtt.24:30 Then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 

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11 hours ago, JJJ-AUSTRALIA said:

1914.... that is if anyone is gallible enough to believe

As I have shown on this forum before - jehovah has a timeline for his "project "  or administration of his project to restore the earth to his original purpose.  Similar to project management, we find perfect time management of prophesied events to help his people to understand where we are in the stream of time.  1914 is only one of these events. 

Has your church helped you to understand the seven heads of the beast?  Have they indicated to you who is the "image of the beast " who will also become the eighth king for a short while?

This eighth king will be given rulership willingly by a coalition of nations....... 

Where do you stand with your understanding of these prophecies which is very important to the culmination of Jehovah's timeline.  You can laugh and scoff us when you can understand these prophecies.

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If 1914 is Jehovah's timetable is like saying every year since Adam and Eve is Jehovah's timetable.

There is not magic 1914 date.

There might be a appointed year day or time but that's not our place to be trying make special dates or years to keep people in lah lah land.

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On 12/23/2019 at 9:48 PM, Arauna said:

I see "water" of truth  which is hardened like hail - to hurt.   These hailstones according to prophecy weigh a talent (close to 33 pounds, I presume)

Hi Arauna!

In situations like this, with scriptures that can either be taken literally or symbolically, and then also the symbolism applied in more than one way, I like to just think "wait and see what actually happens"

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On 12/24/2019 at 7:10 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

Grizzly bears falling from the sky—what are you, nuts?

Destruction of “the wicked” on the Lord’s Day/Day of Judgment is a persistent theme of the Bible. I believe you still pass yourself off as religious. How do you deal with such verses? Do you sweep them under the rug as something embarrassing?

I thought you said you were a writer...not grizzly bears falling from the sky, grizzly bears eating Russians as part of Gods judgement on the non baptized Russian publishers.

The coming judgement is very real, but it is quite embarrassing for you guys is your dangerous teaching that God is going to kill everyone who is not a baptized publisher

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On 12/25/2019 at 12:39 PM, JJJ-AUSTRALIA said:

Lol 140 years from 1914 is that you hinting?

I was thinking of the day Brother Russell began near 1878. 

1914 harmonizes with the persecution that began shortly after that. Why did persecution break out?

Re.12:12 On this account be glad, you heavens and you who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing that he has a short period of time.”

When Jesus was Anointed as the 1st King of God's Kingdom, we went through the Heavens, ousting Satan and other opposers of Jehovah.

Many Books are written about how people changed after 1914. People used to leave the door open when they went for groceries or such, they would turn the porch chair around, that people could see from the sidewalk they were gone. Think of that, they were actually concerned someone would make a wasted walk up the sidewalk!

What organization was persecuted? The one Satan knew Jesus was leading!

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21 hours ago, Anna said:

just think "wait and see what actually happens"

I do believe that the waters of  Truth does not sting or hurt but hailstones of truth weighing a symbolic talent will definitely  be devastating.   It is a prophecy...... so in my mind's eye - I know it will happen.  I believe jehovah's Word.

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1 hour ago, Arauna said:

 It is a prophecy...... so in my mind's eye - I know it will happen.  I believe jehovah's Word.

I believe Jehovah's word too. In the case of the "hailstones message" we don't know if this will be a verbal message, and if yes, we don't know if it will be declared by us...so that's why we will have to wait and see...

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4 hours ago, the Sower of Seed said:

I was thinking of the day Brother Russell began near 1878. 

1914 harmonizes with the persecution that began shortly after that. Why did persecution break out?

Re.12:12 On this account be glad, you heavens and you who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing that he has a short period of time.”

When Jesus was Anointed as the 1st King of God's Kingdom, we went through the Heavens, ousting Satan and other opposers of Jehovah.

Many Books are written about how people changed after 1914. People used to leave the door open when they went for groceries or such, they would turn the porch chair around, that people could see from the sidewalk they were gone. Think of that, they were actually concerned someone would make a wasted walk up the sidewalk!

What organization was persecuted? The one Satan knew Jesus was leading!

You do know the reason why the persecution of the head of the watchtower started in1914?

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16 hours ago, the Sower of Seed said:

1914 harmonizes with the persecution that began shortly after that. Why did persecution break out?

No persecution broke out against anyone associated with the Watchtower in 1914, or 1915, or 1916. Does this mean that it took Jesus a very long time to battle with Satan before he could finally throw him out of heaven? I don't think that was the issue at all!

Brother Russell died just two months shy of 1917, and so there was only a very short time before the next election. As the Watch Tower's and Brother Russell's attorney since 1907, Brother Rutherford had made himself the most prominent, and he was the most active in trying to make sure that the Watchtower didn't end up in the hands of the persons that Russell had picked. This was probably a good thing, because those persons whom Russell had picked were not immediately active in trying to pick up the reins of the Watchtower, because it made more sense that "the Lord" was about to act on their behalf, and that they should just go on doing things the way Russell had wanted by following his "last will and testament" and expecting things to just work out for the best. Especially because it appeared that the expected "END" was now more than 24 months overdue. They expected that Russell, whom they saw as a "SAINT" was still actively running the Society from heaven. 

But Rutherford was quite different, and he had just completed a work in 1915 that showed that, as Russell's attorney, he knew all the potential scandals that Russell had been associated with. He would not have had the attitude that things will just work out because "SAINT" Russell was still running things from the other side of the veil. He was many times more practical, and used the opportunity to gain control of the Watchtower. It looked like the Watchtower would have completely flailed into oblivion without Rutherford at the head. He brought things to a head by the middle of 1917 with the release of "The Finished Mystery" in July, at the same time that Russell dismissed a majority of the 7 directors.

It was this point that brought some measure of persecution to the doors of the Watchtower. The majority of the directors felt that Rutherford was persecuting the Watch Tower Society, by becoming autocratic and not following Russell's "last will," and by going against the articles of incorporation of the Watch Tower Society. But again, this majority "turned the other cheek" instead of standing up for themselves, probably with the same idea that the Lord would provide, and that Russell, although he had died, had been immediately resurrected and would actively run things from the other side of the veil.

Of course, Rutherford, and the two directors that stayed with him, felt that it was the four ousted directors who were persecuting them, and when Rutherford replaced those four with persons loyal to him, this became the only way to look at it. Their persecution failed to touch Rutherford though, and Rutherford had won. So except for some legal maneuvering, there was really no persecution on anyone even in 1916 and most of 1917.

But the book that Fisher and Woodworth had written, the Finished Mystery, had gone much further than Russell ever did in speaking out against war and speaking out against the religions that supported war. This got them in trouble in Canada first where religious leaders felt especially "persecuted" by the book, so they got behind some legal maneuvering to get the book banned. With war hysteria high, it was the perfect time to get some action that might not have otherwise been taken against the Bible Students there.

By 1918 the United States Justice Dept with it's Bureau of Investigation was already arresting people and preachers and activists who were speaking out against the draft, and therefore the people behind the Finished Mystery were already in the sights of the government. The book was banned and several brothers all around the United States were arrested and some served jail terms. When the Society itself was investigated, the Society was found to have also been peripherally involved in helping persons try to avoid the draft, but in a way that was careful enough to probably not have resulted in a win against the Society after appeal. But they were arrested for trial and lost the first trial which dealt mostly with the Finished Mystery, but they were not allowed bail during the appeal process so that the directors had to spend several months in Federal Prison while waiting for the appeal.

This was pretty much the entire persecution! It was a very low level of persecution when we consider what kind of religious persecution had been going on in various countries between Catholics and Protestants, "Christians" and Jews, "Christians" and Native Americans, "Christians" and colonial non-Christians, a few other relgiously motivated persecutions around the world.

It also seemed like an extremely low level of persecution when we consider what Satan has been able to accomplish since then among other peoples, where religious differences have provoked war and persecution that ended up killing literally millions.

What it did do that seemed significant was nearly put the Bible Students and the Watchtower Society out of business. But the Watchtower continued to be published during this period. Also after the President of the WTS got out of prison in May 1919, the trial was discontinued because the US prosecution was pretty sure it could not win such a trial outside of wartime. Rutherford immediately started up the campaign for the predictions due in 1925. This campaign was called "Millions Now Living Will Never Die." That campaign kept the Watch Tower Society alive and motivated, although its failure, along with the removal of the unique doctrines of Russell resulted in the decimation of the numbers of Bible Students from 1926 through the end of that decade.

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10 hours ago, JW Insider said:

No persecution broke out against anyone associated with the Watchtower in 1914, or 1915, or 1916

I did not mean to state that persecution began against the leadership with the war.

However "no persecution", This seems to be a little to broad of a statement. Did not many brothers join in the war? We need not debate why. The delay before turning to the leadership could be that Satan and his cronies were satisfied with the terror the war was bringing to people everywhere.

Who were persecuted? the Catholic? the Baptist? ? No, Jehovah's Witnesses were denied the same civil rights afforded other citizens.

If I push a point, it is that persecution against the Jehovah's Witnesses raged in Canada and the US for many years after WW1, not all at once, but in one locality after another, into the 60's where some were bused to neighboring state lines because of neutrality.

Atrocities happened in the Bible Belt that were not ever written about!

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11 hours ago, JW Insider said:

No persecution broke out against anyone associated with the Watchtower in 1914, or 1915, or 1916. Does this mean that it took Jesus a very long time to battle with Satan before he could finally throw him out of heaven? I don't think that was the issue at all!

Brother Russell died just two months shy of 1917, and so there was only a very short time before the next election. As the Watch Tower's and Brother Russell's attorney since 1907, Brother Rutherford had made himself the most prominent, and he was the most active in trying to make sure that the Watchtower didn't end up in the hands of the persons that Russell had picked. This was probably a good thing, because those persons whom Russell had picked were not immediately active in trying to pick up the reins of the Watchtower, because it made more sense that "the Lord" was about to act on their behalf, and that they should just go on doing things the way Russell had wanted by following his "last will and testament" and expecting things to just work out for the best. Especially because it appeared that the expected "END" was now more than 24 months overdue. They expected that Russell, whom they saw as a "SAINT" was still actively running the Society from heaven. 

But Rutherford was quite different, and he had just completed a work in 1915 that showed that, as Russell's attorney, he knew all the potential scandals that Russell had been associated with. He would not have had the attitude that things will just work out because "SAINT" Russell was still running things from the other side of the veil. He was many times more practical, and used the opportunity to gain control of the Watchtower. It looked like the Watchtower would have completely flailed into oblivion without Rutherford at the head. He brought things to a head by the middle of 1917 with the release of "The Finished Mystery" in July, at the same time that Russell dismissed a majority of the 7 directors.

It was this point that brought some measure of persecution to the doors of the Watchtower. The majority of the directors felt that Rutherford was persecuting the Watch Tower Society, by becoming autocratic and not following Russell's "last will," and by going against the articles of incorporation of the Watch Tower Society. But again, this majority "turned the other cheek" instead of standing up for themselves, probably with the same idea that the Lord would provide, and that Russell, although he had died, had been immediately resurrected and would actively run things from the other side of the veil.

Of course, Rutherford, and the two directors that stayed with him, felt that it was the four ousted directors who were persecuting them, and when Rutherford replaced those four with persons loyal to him, this became the only way to look at it. Their persecution failed to touch Rutherford though, and Rutherford had won. So except for some legal maneuvering, there was really no persecution on anyone even in 1916 and most of 1917.

But the book that Fisher and Woodworth had written, the Finished Mystery, had gone much further than Russell ever did in speaking out against war and speaking out against the religions that supported war. This got them in trouble in Canada first where religious leaders felt especially "persecuted" by the book, so they got behind some legal maneuvering to get the book banned. With war hysteria high, it was the perfect time to get some action that might not have otherwise been taken against the Bible Students there.

By 1918 the United States Justice Dept with it's Bureau of Investigation was already arresting people and preachers and activists who were speaking out against the draft, and therefore the people behind the Finished Mystery were already in the sights of the government. The book was banned and several brothers all around the United States were arrested and some served jail terms. When the Society itself was investigated, the Society was found to have also been peripherally involved in helping persons try to avoid the draft, but in a way that was careful enough to probably not have resulted in a win against the Society after appeal. But they were arrested for trial and lost the first trial which dealt mostly with the Finished Mystery, but they were not allowed bail during the appeal process so that the directors had to spend several months in Federal Prison while waiting for the appeal.

This was pretty much the entire persecution! It was a very low level of persecution when we consider what kind of religious persecution had been going on in various countries between Catholics and Protestants, "Christians" and Jews, "Christians" and Native Americans, "Christians" and colonial non-Christians, a few other relgiously motivated persecutions around the world.

It also seemed like an extremely low level of persecution when we consider what Satan has been able to accomplish since then among other peoples, where religious differences have provoked war and persecution that ended up killing literally millions.

What it did do that seemed significant was nearly put the Bible Students and the Watchtower Society out of business. But the Watchtower continued to be published during this period. Also after the President of the WTS got out of prison in May 1919, the trial was discontinued because the US prosecution was pretty sure it could not win such a trial outside of wartime. Rutherford immediately started up the campaign for the predictions due in 1925. This campaign was called "Millions Now Living Will Never Die." That campaign kept the Watch Tower Society alive and motivated, although its failure, along with the removal of the unique doctrines of Russell resulted in the decimation of the numbers of Bible Students from 1926 through the end of that decade.

This all interisiting but how come there is not mention about the Germans and Rutherford?

Specially Rutherford brought a lot of the persecution to the society because of his stand with Germans! 

 

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1 hour ago, JJJ-AUSTRALIA said:

This all interisiting but how come there is not mention about the Germans and Rutherford?

Specially Rutherford brought a lot of the persecution to the society because of his stand with Germans! 

Uh .... how about because the conversation was about the World War I era ?

Uh ....how about because this is not a 292 page book?

Uh ... how about because your question is so general that it approximates "Why is Planet Earth made of dirt?" ?

 

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14 hours ago, the Sower of Seed said:

However "no persecution", This seems to be a little to broad of a statement. Did not many brothers join in the war?

Yes, true. I was referring to the fact that there was no wave of persecution, as one might expect if Satan had just been hurled down, having great anger, knowing he had a short period of time. In the days of the apostles and especially by the time of Nero, there were reports of literally thousands of Christians persecuted, even with torture and death. In the next two centuries there were reports of hundreds of thousands of Christians put to death. So I'm comparing what Satan was capable of doing when Christianity was just a "babe" compared to the relatively peaceful opposition to the Watchtower that was reported from 1914 to about 1934. It was as if Satan was not even angry during that time period, or that he did not know he had a short period of time.

Recall that the Society still had only a few thousand members worldwide, and except for some colporteurs and speakers, most Bible Students were relatively inactive when it came to preaching. Most of the Bible Students who were regular readers of the Watchtower understood that Russell suggested never speaking out against the draft/conscription in any country, but that Bible Students could allow themselves to be drafted, and if they couldn't get non-combat alternatives, that they should just shoot over the heads of the enemy (per Watch Tower recommendations given by Russell himself).

14 hours ago, the Sower of Seed said:

Who were persecuted? the Catholic? the Baptist? ? No, Jehovah's Witnesses were denied the same civil rights afforded other citizens.

This is false. There were many more Catholics and Baptists arrested than the Bible Students. I know of at least one case of a Baptist preacher who was investigated and arrested for exact same stated reasons that the Bible Students were.

The United States did not get into the war until April 1917. The Espionage (Sedition Act) was not passed until June 1917. It was used against HUNDREDS of persons in the United States, and many of those convicted remained in jail for up to 5 years. The dozen or so Bible Students (including the 7 directors) were a very small part of the total. Almost all of the HUNDREDS of OTHER activists, socialists, suspected immigrants, and religious publishers were released within 3 or 4 years on appeal, or on commuted sentences. When the war hysteria was over, almost everyone else got released with treatment very similar to the Watch Tower directors.

Several brothers joined the war, but this did not result in any wave of persecution. There were a few imprisoned brothers in the US, Canada, the UK and a couple of other European countries at the time, but reports of beatings and violence were very relatively rare. Also a few reports of brothers who could not avoid conscription tried to get alternative work, such as hospital work, and were still told to choose either combat or the brig. So this resulted in a couple more short imprisonments at army camps, especially training camps.

(For the United States, the war lasted only about 18 months, from April 1917 to November 1918.)

14 hours ago, the Sower of Seed said:

If I push a point, it is that persecution against the Jehovah's Witnesses raged in Canada and the US for many years after WW1, not all at once, but in one locality after another, into the 60's where some were bused to neighboring state lines because of neutrality.

The first rage of persecution against us started in the 1930's, in Germany. In the 1940's that war hysteria hit the United States. There were very close to ZERO reported deaths of Bible Students and Jehovah's Witnesses in the United States, and hundreds in Germany, with thousands incarcerated in the 1940's, many in the worst possible situations, even in concentration camps. Since then, there have been several hot spots off and on where persecution of Witnesses has resulted in violence and death. (Overall, the numbers of deaths have been very small when compared with persecution of other religious groups in this century.)

14 hours ago, the Sower of Seed said:

The delay before turning to the leadership could be that Satan and his cronies were satisfied with the terror the war was bringing to people everywhere.

Interesting possibility. But you would think there would be much more evidence than just interesting possibilities for why Satan delayed turning to the leadership of the Watch Tower, if Revelation 12 really refers to the time immediately after 1914.

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12 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Interesting possibility. But you would think there would be much more evidence than just interesting possibilities for why Satan delayed turning to the leadership of the Watch Tower, if Revelation 12 really refers to the time immediately after 1914.

I'm sorry Satan has not lived up to your expectations. I appreciate your complaining of his weakness.

Yes, the Bible Students were a small group, he could of done much more to smash this group before they grew and built JW.ORG. Such weakness!

He was able to bring pressure to some of them,even in his weakness. I can imagine the terror of you men who carried a Bible, day after day to his neighbors, speaking of a peaceful paradise, now being pressured by family and peers to join the war.

We can also minimize the persecution from church members as witnesses went to their doors doing the expressed will of God as commanded at Mtt.28:19,20

We can minimize the war itself and the "end of the gentile times".

Satan has been weakened from his original powerful condition, where he could be empowered by the light.Now he can only influence the powerful, the intelligent and the unwary with inspiration. He was powerful when Nero ruled, can he still kill?

Now, as I view the world of religion, WHO DO I VIEW AS DOING THE EXPRESSED WILL OF GOD AT MTT.24:14 and MARK 13:10

WHICH RELIGION SHOULD I JOIN? WHO ARE THE TRUE WORSHIPERS OF ALL THE RELIGIONS AND WHY?

THERE IS ONLY ONE, JESUS TAUGHT THEM THEN AND NOW, TO GO 2 BY 2,  DOOR AFTER DOOR UNTIL HE SMASHES SATAN.

WHO ARE THEY?

WHO WILL DELIVER A HAILSTONE MESSAGE?

WHO HAS THE COURAGE TO DELIVER SUCH A MESSAGE? 

ONLY THOSE WHO HAVE DELIVERED GODS MESSAGE UNTIL THAT DAY!

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, the Sower of Seed said:

I'm sorry Satan has not lived up to your expectations. I appreciate your complaining of his weakness.

You'll notice that I spoke, not of his weakness, but of the strength of Satan to cause persecutions that resulted in millions of deaths through the centuries. Satan and the spirit of the world that he embodies, has been at the heart of centuries of wars and persecutions. You will never see me complaining of his weakness.

2 hours ago, the Sower of Seed said:

He was able to bring pressure to some of them,even in his weakness. I can imagine the terror of you men who carried a Bible, day after day to his neighbors, speaking of a peaceful paradise, now being pressured by family and peers to join the war.

I won't get into any of the nit-picky anachronisms here, but yes, there was the pressure for young men to join the war. There is the same pressure today in many lands, but pressure to join in doing something wrong is not normally considered persecution. Some might feel pressure to avoid a lot of things the world would want us to join. But this is not the kind of "persecution" I was speaking about.

Rutherford himself gave into the "pressure" to speak of the League of Nations as if it were some kind of awesome political expression on earth of what God's kingdom offers from the heavens. Does this mean that Rutherford could claim he was persecuted to do this, and that's what pressured him to say pretty much the same thing that the World Council of Churches was saying?

The point I was trying to make is that, from 1914 to 1917, we are still talking about Russell's version of what preaching meant, not Rutherford's later versions. Rutherford, even up until 1919, had added only a couple of new elements to the Bible Students by that point in time: a much (better) stronger view against participation in war, stronger involvement in wordly politics, and a book called the "Finished Mystery" which was literally full of ludicrous "apostate" explanations of prophecy and false predictions which we would be embarrassed to read today. Probably the best pages in the whole book were the pages that Rutherford offered to rip out of every copy in 1918 so that the book could still be sold.

2 hours ago, the Sower of Seed said:

We can also minimize the persecution from church members as witnesses went to their doors doing the expressed will of God as commanded at Mtt.28:19,20

It was already minimal from 1914 to 1934, but even if we maximized it, it still pales in comparison to the Biblical imagery of Revelation 12. Give it a quick look again as a reminder:

(Revelation 12:3-17) Another sign was seen in heaven. Look! A great fiery-colored dragon, with seven heads and ten horns and on its heads seven diadems; and its tail drags a third of the stars of heaven, and it hurled them down to the earth. And the dragon kept standing before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she did give birth, it might devour her child. . . .  And the woman fled into the wilderness, . . . And war broke out in heaven: Miʹcha·el and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them any longer in heaven. 9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him. . . .  the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God! 11 And they conquered him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their witnessing, and they did not love their souls even in the face of death. . . . Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing that he has a short period of time.”  Now when the dragon saw that it had been hurled down to the earth, it persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child. . . . 15 And the serpent spewed out water like a river from its mouth after the woman, to cause her to be drowned by the river. 16 But the earth came to the woman’s help, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the river that the dragon spewed out from its mouth. 17 So the dragon became enraged at the woman and went off to wage war with the remaining ones of her offspring, who observe the commandments of God and have the work of bearing witness concerning Jesus.

Now, I'm sure that a lot of religious groups have seen this as being fulfilled upon themselves through the centuries. No harm done. That's just the way we egocentric humans have always been. And many of them had situations where they actually faced literal death. But in our case we say it was some legal maneuverings that resulted in the 9-month removal of 7 or 8 replaceable men of a specific organization that had already spent all its money on the Photo-Drama with the expectation that, after October 1914, no money would be needed for further preaching by any of them in 1915. The false expectations for 1914 had already resulted in the loss of many adherents. The autocratic nature of Rutherford, and the worldly, political infighting within the Society (over how it should be controlled in the wake of Russell's death) resulted in the loss of many more. The book, "Finished Mystery" caused a further controversy that resulted in the loss of even more Bible Students. The core adherents to the Watch Tower Society were fewer and fewer, even before the war had much impact. Rutherford began touting false expectations for 1918 and then 1925, and by the end of that decade, he had dropped pyramidology, the explanation for the End of the Gentile Times, and most of the the Russell/Barbour chronology.

Rutherford's actions from 1914 to 1931 resulted in the loss of MOST of the Bible Students. (For mostly good reasons, however.) Satan's actions during the same period were nothing like what Revelation 12 would have led Bible Students to expect. And yet we know that Satan is not weak. Look at WWII, and the holocaust, for example. Where was this "war with the remaining ones of her offspring"? Where was this rage against the woman between 1914 and 1934? You have already guessed that maybe Satan diverted his attention to the overall long-term terrible effects of the war for a few years. That's possible. But reading Revelation 12 doesn't fit the idea of making excuses for Satan.

2 hours ago, the Sower of Seed said:

We can minimize the war itself and the "end of the gentile times".

Nothing to minimize about the war itself. It really was terrible and really was a change to an era. Of course, we already have minimized the "end of the gentile times." Rutherford completely changed its meaning by about 1931. It no longer meant the complete dissolving of all non-Jewish institutions over a course of a few months starting in October 1914, while natural, physical Jews in Jerusalem (Palestine) simultaneously proved themselves (starting in 1914) to be the only government that had Jehovah's backing and blessing.

2 hours ago, the Sower of Seed said:

Satan has been weakened from his original powerful condition, where he could be empowered by the light.Now he can only influence the powerful, the intelligent and the unwary with inspiration. He was powerful when Nero ruled, can he still kill?

Again, we are forced to guess why he acted less like the Biblical Satan at the very time he was supposedly more angry, and had dragged a third of the stars of heaven down with him. Perhaps you are saying that Satan is less powerful after 1915 than he was in 1913? Or did this change in his power happen sometime closer to the time of Nero? (37 CE to 68 CE.)

2 hours ago, the Sower of Seed said:

Now, as I view the world of religion, WHO DO I VIEW AS DOING THE EXPRESSED WILL OF GOD AT MTT.24:14 and MARK 13:10

I would say that Jehovah's Witnesses are doing this. Sounds like you might agree.

2 hours ago, the Sower of Seed said:

THERE IS ONLY ONE, JESUS TAUGHT THEM THEN AND NOW, TO GO 2 BY 2,  DOOR AFTER DOOR UNTIL HE SMASHES SATAN.

Just to be a little more careful here, when Jesus taught them to go 2 by 2, he clearly told them NOT to go "door after door."

(Luke 10:1-7) . . .After these things the Lord designated 70 others and sent them out by twos ahead of him into every city and place where he himself was to go.. . .  Do not keep transferring from house to house.

The method was announcing themselves in public and then only going to persons' houses where they were invited.

But our current method of going from house to house has worked well, too. I have nothing against it, and have used it to excellent advantage in starting studies and making disciples.

2 hours ago, the Sower of Seed said:

WHO WILL DELIVER A HAILSTONE MESSAGE?

WHO HAS THE COURAGE TO DELIVER SUCH A MESSAGE? 

Just one person's opinion here, but If we were to be given a hailstone message to warn others with before the actual end is upon as (as a surprise) then Jesus must have been lying when he said it would come upon ALL of us as a surprise. Jesus said the parousia would be like a flash of lightning that suddenly flashes from one end of the horizon over to the other end. Hardly even a split second should remain to start a hailstone message. Of course, there will always be people who think they know better than Jesus.

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On 12/28/2019 at 10:22 AM, JW Insider said:

You'll notice that I spoke, not of his weakness, but of the strength of Satan to cause persecutions that resulted in millions of deaths through the centuries. Satan and the spirit of the world that he embodies, has been at the heart of centuries of wars and persecutions. You will never see me complaining of his weakness.

I was being sarcastic! Is there a symbol for that?

Satan and the demons are LESS powerful than they were before the flood. After the flood, they could go back to Heaven and regain strength.

After 1914 they are confined here. What is it that limits their power? Either they are denied some type of light because of a change in the atmosphere from the flood?

2 Peter 2:4 Certainly God did not refrain from punishing the angels who sinned, but threw them into Tarʹta·rus, putting them in chains of dense darkness (state of inactivity) to be reserved for judgment.

Or like Superman, there is some kryptonite that suppresses their power (bad light?)

Revelation 12:15 And the serpent spewed out water like a river from its mouth after the woman, to cause her to be drowned by the river.(Satan misleads the masses with a a mighty river of false &  misleading information coupled with traditions built on lies)

Revelation 12 has been fulfilled. 1914 witnessed that fulfillment just as Brother Russell spoke as Christ's Anointed originator of the current congregation under his direction. Great Persecution did break out for the witnesses that will never be reported. (in public, at the doors, at work, in the families, etc....)

We look at the sign of the Last Days to know that Revelation 12 has been fulfilled, as it describes Jesus presence as King of God’s Kingdom in Heaven with the apostles and anointed ones to date. They await the order of judgment from the Almighty Judge at Da.7:26. He will send Earths new king as seen at Da.12:1.

All things are being fulfilled, even in the order spoken by Jesus.

Mtt 24: 4 In answer Jesus said to them: “Look out that nobody misleads you. (The Misleading began in the 1st century and is main stream today!  99 percent of Earth’s inhabitants have a belief that separates them from God and His provisions for the future)

vs 7 states  “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another.

8 All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress.

9 “Then people will hand you over to tribulation and will kill you, and you will be hated by all the nations on account of my name.

10 Then, too, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another.

11 Many false prophets will arise and mislead many;

12 and because of the increasing of lawlessness, the love of the greater number will grow cold.

 13 But the one who has endured to the end will be saved.

14 And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

The Witnesses Have Done the Work foretold at Mtt.24:14: teaching the correct understanding of God’s Kingdom. That fact and their progress in reaching every land and people are the greatest indicator of which religion has God’s spirit and where we are in the stream of time!

The World changed in 1914 with WW1, after that and down to today, we see an increasing number of diseases bringing infirmities and death, we see the starving children, earthquakes, volcanoes, record flooding in one place after another, fires reducing whole communities to ashes, a number of cat 5 hurricanes along with global warming and the extinction of animals and habitat. Yes, we can look back and see that 1914 was a pivotal year.

The Churches held great power that is tarnished and fading today.They have taught many falsehoods, like the Hell-Fire doctrine & the Trinity that have separated the people from God. Crime, injustice, racism and the vast difference between the rich and poor, diminish the Love for neighbor and fuel the Hate for everyone.

Mtt.24:29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.30 Then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.31 And he will send out his angels with a great trumpet sound, and they will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from one extremity of the heavens to their other extremity

We today see a shifting world power and anger toward individual leaders. Too,we see political networks being formed and the rebirth of the King of the North. 

We see Daniel 2:42 happening and being broadcast worldwide. 

The Divine Court has recessed for 6000 years and will soon resume the Judgment that began at Genesis 3:15. See Daniel 7:26,27

These Evident Bible Truths have been Hailstones since Brother Russell began preaching them.

The Revelation That They Are All True (vs 30) and The Acceptable Time for Joining God’s Servants has Passed will Greatly Increase the Sting of these Hailstones!

 

 

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1 hour ago, the Sower of Seed said:

I was being sarcastic! Is there a symbol for that?

You didn't need one. It was clear to me that I was responding to your sarcasm.

1 hour ago, the Sower of Seed said:

Satan and the demons are LESS powerful than they were before the flood. After the flood, they could go back to Heaven and regain strength.

Interesting idea, but I haven't seen the scriptural evidence for this idea. But I do also see a problem with it.

1 hour ago, the Sower of Seed said:

After 1914 they are confined here. What is it that limits their power?

Curious. You might have great ideas, but they strike me as too far off the scriptural foundation I would expect as an explanation. The following might sound like I'm making fun, but I'm quite serious about the problems I have with this theory.

So woe to the earth and sea because he has great anger but at least he has limited power. I assume you believe that Satan had the power to count, at least. This means that he could have counted from 607 BCE and known that the parousia would begin in 1914? He is not very crafty then, because he would have known he would have all full power in January 1912, started the chaos against Christ's brothers, and been able to recharge in February 1912, come back to start WWI, recharge in March, come back to fight against Christ's brothers again, with all those same powers he had used to get hundreds of thousands killed, just like he did in the second century. So he could have had all the necessary damage done well before Jesus would be enthroned in October 1914. And plenty of time to spare, with which to recharge again. Perhaps he didn't have the power to read Revelation chapter 12, so he didn't know he was to be thrown down after the battle. Perhaps he thought he could win the battle?

1 hour ago, the Sower of Seed said:

(Satan misleads the masses with a a mighty river of false &  misleading information coupled with traditions built on lies)

I have a little trouble with the physics of bad light, kryptonite-like physics on a spiritual being, but I'm OK with seeing Satan as someone whose spirit manipulates the world and misleads masses with a mighty rive of false and misleading information, traditions, lies, etc.

1 hour ago, the Sower of Seed said:

1914 witnessed that fulfillment just as Brother Russell spoke as Christ's Anointed originator of the current congregation under his direction.

Is there a reference to Russell as this Anointed originator there in Revelation? Or is this a guess without a scripture to back it up?

1 hour ago, the Sower of Seed said:

Great Persecution did break out for the witnesses that will never be reported. (in public, at the doors, at work, in the families, etc....)

OK, so you are saying that this persecution broke out in 1914? 1917? 1919? It sounds like you are only talking about the same kind of treatment that all persons of all religious sects go through when they join a religious sect that is not accepted in the mainstream. You have said that it would have been worse in the Bible Belt, and this might generally be true. It would have been worse when the war broke out and persons were being conscripted in Europe, and by 1917, it would have been worse when there was peer pressure to go to war. Or in some cases I assume that peer pressure might be to NOT go to war, when the Watch Tower had already said it would be OK, even if the "witnesses" (Bible Students) had to join a combat battalion.

The problem with this is that, by all reports, this persecution on the "witnesses" did not result in violence or death. You appear to think that there would be much that was not reported. But the few thousand "witnesses" that this would have affected would be only a minor, tiny number compared to the tens of thousands of persons of other religions with conscientious objectors who were already prepared to go to prison instead of going to war. Their neighbors, workmates, families, etc., might have thought they were mentally diseased, or were concerned that they were apostate, or might have starting shunning them, but surely you don't think that calling someone mentally diseased, or apostate, or shunning them is persecution, do you?

2 hours ago, the Sower of Seed said:

We look at the sign of the Last Days to know that Revelation 12 has been fulfilled, as it describes Jesus presence as King of God’s Kingdom in Heaven with the apostles and anointed ones to date.

Yes, I think this is right. Although I can't see it happening in 1914. I see where you get the sign of the last days, based on Satan's anger knowing he has a short period of time, but don't see where Rev 12 describes the apostles and anointed ones to date already there in heaven with Jesus.

I think that most of the rest of your post is pretty much in line with a fairly standard Witness reading of Revelation and Matthew 24, Daniel, Genesis 3:15, etc. I'm OK with most of it, but I personally don't see any reason to insert 1914 here as a pivotal date. It doesn't seem necessary, or even possible, when we consider the more likely meaning of Jesus' words in Matthew 24 and match them up to everything else Jesus and Paul and 1 & 2 Peter said. But that's a different topic, and I don't see it as a problem if this is how you resolve these verses. It's the way I had always resolved it too, and the way a few million other Witnesses resolve it. (Also, I see the war and pestilence as pivotal in the era starting in 1914, but none of the other items you mentioned pivoted around 1914. But these concerns would have almost nothing to do with whether the Bible allows us to use 1914 as a pivotal year.)

I'm taking an interest in what you are saying here, because I am currently trying to look at Revelation 12 myself to see whether it is more likely to mean what we have said all along, with a few contradictions to resolve, or whether it fits a reading that has almost no scriptural difficulties to resolve. If I can resolve the Watchtower contradictions, I will give it the benefit of the doubt. If not, I would hope for a chance to discuss a resolution that fits all of the scriptures with no contradictions. I've given a lot of thought to Genesis through Jude, but haven't resolved that much of Revelation yet.

So please forgive me if I sound a bit cantankerous here while trying to evaluate what you are saying.

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      Ethics and morality
      See article:  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      Their views of morality reflect conservative Christian values. All sexual relations outside of marriage are grounds for expulsion if the individual is not deemed repentant;[217][218]  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  is considered a serious sin, and same-sex marriages are forbidden. Abortion is considered murder.[219] Suicide is considered to be "self-inflicted murder" and a sin against God.[220] Modesty in dress and grooming is frequently emphasized. Gambling, drunkenness, illegal drugs, and tobacco use are forbidden.[221] Drinking of alcoholic beverages is permitted in moderation.[219] 

      The family structure is patriarchal. The husband is considered to have authority on family decisions, but is encouraged to solicit his wife's thoughts and feelings, as well as those of his children. Marriages are required to be monogamous and legally registered.[222][223] Marrying a non-believer, or endorsing such a union, is strongly discouraged and carries religious sanctions.[224][225] Divorce is discouraged, and remarriage is forbidden unless a divorce is obtained on the grounds of adultery, termed "a scriptural divorce".[226] If a divorce is obtained for any other reason, remarriage is considered adulterous unless the prior spouse has died or is since considered to have committed fornication.[227] Extreme physical abuse, willful non-support of one's family, and what the religion terms "absolute endangerment of spirituality" are considered grounds for legal separation.[228][229]
       
      Disciplinary action
      Main article: Jehovah's Witnesses and congregational discipline
      Formal discipline is administered by congregation  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. . When a baptized member is accused of committing a serious sin—usually cases of sexual misconduct[115][230] or charges of apostasy for disputing the  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. [231][232]—a judicial committee is formed to determine guilt, provide help and possibly administer discipline.  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , a form of shunning, is the strongest form of discipline, administered to an offender deemed unrepentant.[233] Contact with disfellowshipped individuals is limited to direct family members living in the same home, and with congregation  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  who may invite disfellowshipped persons to apply for  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;[234][235] formal business dealings may continue if contractually or financially obliged.[236] Witnesses are taught that avoiding social and spiritual interaction with disfellowshipped individuals keeps the congregation free from immoral influence and that "losing precious fellowship with loved ones may help [the shunned individual] to come 'to his senses,' see the seriousness of his wrong, and take steps to return to Jehovah."[237] The practice of  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  may also serve to deter other members from dissident behavior.[238] Members who disassociate (formally resign) are described in  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  as wicked and are also shunned.[239][240][241] Expelled individuals may eventually be reinstated to the congregation if deemed repentant by  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  in the congregation in which the disfellowshipping was enforced.[242]  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  is a lesser form of discipline given formally by a  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  to a baptized Witness who is considered repentant of serious sin; the reproved person temporarily loses conspicuous privileges of service, but suffers no restriction of social or spiritual fellowship.[243]  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , a curtailing of social but not spiritual fellowship, is practiced if a baptized member persists in a course of action regarded as a violation of Bible principles but not a serious sin.[note 4]
      Separateness
      Main article: Jehovah's Witnesses and governments
      Jehovah's Witnesses believe that the Bible condemns the mixing of religions, on the basis that there can only be one truth from God, and therefore reject interfaith and ecumenical movements.[244][245][246] They believe that only their religion represents true Christianity, and that other religions fail to meet all the requirements set by God and will soon be destroyed.[247] Jehovah's Witnesses are taught that it is vital to remain "separate from the world."  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  define the "world" as "the mass of mankind apart from Jehovah's approved servants" and teach that it is morally contaminated and ruled by Satan.[248][249][250] Witnesses are taught that association with "worldly" people presents a "danger" to their faith,[251] and are instructed to minimize social contact with non-members to better maintain their own standards of morality.[252][253][254][255]

      Jehovah's Witnesses believe their highest allegiance belongs to God's kingdom, which is viewed as an actual government in heaven, with Christ as king. They remain politically neutral, do not seek public office, and are discouraged from voting, though individual members may participate in uncontroversial community improvement issues.[256][257] They do not celebrate religious holidays such as Christmas and Easter, nor do they observe birthdays, nationalistic holidays, or other celebrations they consider to honor people other than Jesus. They feel that these and many other customs have pagan origins or reflect a nationalistic or political spirit. Their position is that these traditional holidays reflect Satan's control over the world.[258][259][260] Witnesses are told that spontaneous giving at other times can help their children to not feel deprived of birthdays or other celebrations.[261]

      They do not work in industries associated with the military, do not serve in the armed services,[262] and refuse national military service, which in some countries may result in their arrest and imprisonment.[263] They do not salute or pledge allegiance to flags or sing national anthems or patriotic songs.[264] Jehovah's Witnesses see themselves as a worldwide brotherhood that transcends national boundaries and ethnic loyalties.[265][266] Sociologist Ronald Lawson has suggested the religion's intellectual and organizational isolation, coupled with the intense indoctrination of adherents, rigid internal discipline and considerable  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , has contributed to the consistency of its sense of urgency in its apocalyptic message.[267] 
       
      See also: Are Jehovah's Witnesses a Religion?
      References
       
      Yearbook 2002, Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, p. 31, 2002 Van Voorst,Robert E. (2012). RELG: World (with Religion CourseMate with eBook Printed Access Card). Cengage Learning. p. 288. ISBN 1-1117-2620-5. Organized to Do Jehovah's Will, Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society, 2005, pages 17–18. "Cooperating With the Governing Body Today,", The Watchtower, March 15, 1990, page 19. Beckford 1975, p. 119 "Focus on the Goodness of Jehovah's Organization". The Watchtower: 22. 15 July 2006. "Impart God's Progressive Revelation to Mankind", The Watchtower, March 1, 1965, pp. 158–159 Penton 1997, pp. 165–171 "Flashes of Light—Great and Small", The Watchtower, May 15, 1995, page 15. Penton 1997, p. 165 J. F. Rutherford, Preparation, Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society, 1933, page 64, 67, "Enlightenment proceeds from Jehovah by and through Christ Jesus and is given to the faithful anointed on earth at the temple, and brings great peace and consolation to them. Again Zechariah talked with the angel of the Lord, which shows that the remnant are instructed by the angels of the Lord. The remnant do not hear audible sounds, because such is not necessary. Jehovah has provided his own good way to convey thoughts to the minds of his anointed ones ... Those of the remnant, being honest and true, must say, We do not know; and the Lord enlightens them, sending his angels for that very purpose." "The Spirit Searches into the Deep Things of God", The Watchtower, July 15, 2010, page 23, "When the time comes to clarify a spiritual matter in our day, holy spirit helps responsible representatives of 'the faithful and discreet slave' at world headquarters to discern deep truths that were not previously understood. The Governing Body as a whole considers adjusted explanations. What they learn, they publish for the benefit of all." "Do We Need Help to Understand the Bible?". The Watchtower: 19. February 15, 1981. "True, the brothers preparing these  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  are not infallible. Their writings are not inspired as are those of Paul and the other Bible writers. (2 Tim. 3:16) And so, at times, it has been necessary, as understanding became clearer, to correct views. (Prov. 4:18)" "Do You See the Evidence of God's Guidance?", The Watchtower, April 15, 2011, pages 3–5, "How, then, do we react when we receive divine direction? Do we try to apply it “right afterward”? Or do we continue doing things just as we have been accustomed to doing them? Are we familiar with up-to-date directions, such as those regarding conducting home Bible studies, preaching to foreign speaking people, regularly sharing in family worship, cooperating with Hospital Liaison Committees, and conducting ourselves properly at conventions? ... Do you clearly discern the evidence of divine guidance? Jehovah uses his organization to guide us, his people, through “the wilderness” during these last days of Satan’s wicked world." "Unity Identifies True Worship", The Watchtower, September 15, 2010, page 13 par.8 "This spiritual food is based on God’s Word. Thus, what is taught is not from men but from Jehovah." "Overseers of Jehovah’s People", The Watchtower, June 15, 1957, "Let us now unmistakably identify Jehovah’s channel of communication for our day, that we may continue in his favor ... It is vital that we appreciate this fact and respond to the directions of the “slave” as we would to the voice of God, because it is His provision." Penton 1997, p. 172 All Scripture is Inspired of God, Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society, 1990, page 336. All Scripture is Inspired of God, Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society, 1990, page 9. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  | pp. 199–208 Jehovah's Witnesses Holden & 2002 Portrait, p. 67, "Materials such as The Watchtower are almost as significant to the Witnesses as the Bible, since the information is presented as the inspired work of theologians, and they are, therefore, believed to contain as much truth as biblical texts." James A. Beverley, Crisis of Allegiance, Welch Publishing Company, Burlington, Ontario, 1986, ISBN 0-920413-37-4, pages 25–26, 101, "For every passage in Society literature that urges members to be bold and courageous in critical pursuits, there are many others that warn about independent thinking and the peril of questioning the organization ... Fear of disobedience to the Governing Body keeps Jehovah's Witnesses from carefully checking into biblical doctrine or allegations concerning false prophecy, faulty scholarship, and injustice. Witnesses are told not to read books like this one." "Keep Clear of False Worship!", The Watchtower, 15 March 2006, "True Christians keep clear of false worship, rejecting false religious teachings. This means that we avoid exposure to religious programs on radio and television as well as religious literature that promotes lies about God and his Word." "Questions From Readers—Why do Jehovah’s Witnesses decline to exchange their Bible study aids for the religious literature of people they meet". The Watchtower: 31. May 1, 1984. "So it would be foolhardy, as well as a waste of valuable time, for Jehovah’s Witnesses to accept and expose themselves to false religious literature that is designed to deceive." Question Box, Our Kingdom Ministry, September 2007, "Throughout the earth, Jehovah’s people are receiving ample spiritual instruction and encouragement at congregation meetings, assemblies, and conventions, as well as through  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. . Under the guidance of his holy spirit and on the basis of his Word of truth, Jehovah provides what is needed so that all of God’s people may be fitly united in the same mind and in the same line of thought and remain stabilized in the faith. Surely we are grateful for Jehovah’s spiritual provisions in these last days. Thus, the faithful and discreet slave does not endorse any literature, meetings, or Web sites that are not produced or organized under its oversight." "Make Your Advancement Manifest", The Watchtower, August 1, 2001, page 14, "Since oneness is to be observed, a mature Christian must be in unity and full harmony with fellow believers as far as faith and knowledge are concerned. He does not advocate or insist on personal opinions or harbor private ideas when it comes to Bible understanding. Rather, he has complete confidence in the truth as it is revealed by Jehovah God through his Son, Jesus Christ, and the faithful and discreet slave." Testimony by Fred Franz, Transcript, Lord Strachan vs. Douglas Walsh, 1954. page 123, Q: "Did you imply that the individual member has the right of reading the books and the Bible and forming his own view as to the proper interpretation of Holy Writ? A:" .... No....The Scripture is there given in support of the statement, and therefore the individual when he looks up the Scripture and thereby verifies the statement,...search[es] the Scripture to see whether these things were so." "Do We Need Help to Understand the Bible?", The Watchtower, February 15, 1981, page 19, "Jesus’ disciples wrote many letters to Christian congregations, to persons who were already in the way of the truth. But nowhere do we read that those brothers first, in a skeptical frame of mind, checked the Scriptures to make certain that those letters had Scriptural backing, that the writers really knew what they were talking about. We can benefit from this consideration. If we have once established what instrument God is using as his 'slave' to dispense spiritual food to his people, surely Jehovah is not pleased if we receive that food as though it might contain something harmful. We should have confidence in the channel God is using." Beckford 1975, pp. 84, 89, 92, 119–120 "Questions From Readers", The Watchtower April 1, 1986 pp. 30–31. Holden, Andrew (2002). Jehovah's Witnesses: Portrait of a Contemporary Religious Movement. Routledge. p. 24. ISBN 0-415-26609-2. Ringnes, Hege Kristin; Helje Kringlebotn Sødal (ed.) (2009). Jehovas vitner—en flerfaglig studie (in Norwegian). Oslo: Universitetsforlaget. p. 27. Holden, A. (2002).  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  (PDF). Department of Sociology, Lancaster University, Lancaster LA1 4YL, UK. p. Endnote . Retrieved 2009-06-21. Alan Rogerson (1969). Millions Now Living Will Never Die. Constable. p. 87. Beckford 1975, p. 105 Revelation Its Grand Climax, Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society, 1988, pg 36, "In the songbook produced by Jehovah’s people in 1905, there were twice as many songs praising Jesus as there were songs praising Jehovah God. In their 1928 songbook, the number of songs extolling Jesus was about the same as the number extolling Jehovah. But in the latest songbook of 1984, Jehovah is honored by four times as many songs as is Jesus. This is in harmony with Jesus’ own words: 'The Father is greater than I am.' Love for Jehovah must be preeminent, accompanied by deep love for Jesus and appreciation of his precious sacrifice and office as God’s High Priest and King." Alan Rogerson (1969). Millions Now Living Will Never Die. Constable. p. 90. "What is the Holy Spirit?". The Watchtower: 5. October 1, 2009. "There is a close connection between the holy spirit and the power of God. The holy spirit is the means by which Jehovah exerts his power. Put simply, the holy spirit is God’s applied power, or his active force." Hoekema 1963, p. 262 Hoekema 1963, pp. 276–277 Penton 1997, p. 372 Hoekema 1963, p. 270 "Stay in the “City of Refuge” and Live!", The Watchtower, November 15, 1995, page 19 Penton 1997, pp. 188–189 Penton 1997, pp. 188–190 Hoekema 1963, pp. 298–299 Holden & 2002 Portrait, p. 25 "Identifying the Wild Beast and Its Mark". The Watchtower: 5. 1 April 2004. "This does not mean, however, that every human ruler is a direct tool of Satan." Hoekema 1963, pp. 322–324 Hoekema 1963, pp. 265–269 Penton 1997, p. 186 Penton 1997, p. 193–194 "Remaining Organized for Survival Into the Millennium", The Watchtower, September 1, 1989, page 19, "Only Jehovah's Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the 'great crowd,'as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil." You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth,, Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society, 1989, pg 255, "Do not conclude that there are different roads, or ways, that you can follow to gain life in God's new system. There is only one ... there will be only one organization—God's visible organization—that will survive the fast-approaching 'great tribulation.' It is simply not true that all religions lead to the same goal. You must be part of Jehovah's organization, doing God's will, in order to receive his blessing of everlasting life." "Our Readers Ask: Do Jehovah's Witnesses Believe That They Are the Only Ones Who Will Be Saved?", The Watchtower, November 1, 2008, page 28, "Jehovah's Witnesses hope to be saved. However, they also believe that it is not their job to judge who will be saved. Ultimately, God is the Judge. He decides." Hoekema 1963, pp. 315–319 Insight on the Scriptures Volume 1 p. 606 " Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. "             Hoekema 1963, p. 297 Hoekema 1963, pp. 286 "Apocalypse—When?", The Watchtower, February 15, 1986, page 6. Penton 1997, p. 180 Hoekema 1963, pp. 307–321 Penton 1997, p. 17–19 The Watchtower 10/1/92 p. 16 par. 6 "The Messiah’s Presence and His Rule" Holden & 2002 Portrait, p. 64–69 2010 Yearbook of Jehovah’s Witnesses: p. 6 Highlights of the Past Year "UPBUILDING AND ENJOYABLE FAMILY WORSHIP" The Watchtower 5/15 2011 p. 14 par 13 Christian Families—“Keep Ready” Maintain a Family Worship Evening Hoekema 1963, p. 292 Crompton, Robert (1996). Counting the Days to Armageddon. Cambridge: James Clarke & Co. p. 5. ISBN 0-227-67939-3. Rogerson, Alan (1969). Millions Now Living Will Never Die: A Study of Jehovah's Witnesses. Constable & Co, London. p. 1. ISBN 978-0094559400. Whalen, William J. (1962). Armageddon Around the Corner: A Report on Jehovah's Witnesses. New York: John Day Company. p. 15,18. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Ringnes, Hege Kristin; Helje Kringlebotn Sødal (ed.) (2009). Jehovas vitner—en flerfaglig studie (in Norwegian). Oslo: Universitetsforlaget. p. 43. "Question Box: How long should a formal Bible study be conducted with an individual in the Knowledge book?". 'Our Kingdom Ministry. October 1996. "We want people to receive a basic knowledge of the truth. Yet it is expected that within a relatively short period of time, an effective teacher will be able to assist a sincere average student to acquire sufficient knowledge to make an intelligent decision to serve Jehovah... (if there is no) clear evidence of his desire to serve Jehovah .... it may be advisable to discontinue the study." Botting, Heather; Gary Botting (1984). The Orwellian World of Jehovah's Witnesses. University of Toronto Press. p. 77. ISBN 0-8020-6545-7. "The society states explicitly that all Bible studies should quickly show signs of 'real progress' to be deemed worthy of pursuit ... unless the potential converts are willing to give clear indication that they accept both the doctrines and the consequent responsibilities of attending meetings and going from door to door themselves, the study should be discontinued." Bearing Thorough Witness About God's Kingdom, Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society, 2009, page 63, "Do you obey the command to bear thorough witness, even if the assignment causes you some apprehension?" "Determined to bear thorough witness," The Watchtower, December 15, 2008, page 19, "When the resurrected Jesus spoke to disciples gathered in Galilee, likely 500 of them, he commanded: 'Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you.' That command applies to all true Christians today." Botting, Heather; Gary Botting (1984). The Orwellian World of Jehovah's Witnesses. University of Toronto Press. p. 52. ISBN 0-8020-6545-7. "Do You Contribute to an Accurate Report?", Our Kingdom Ministry, December 2002, page 8, "Jehovah’s organization today instructs us to report our field service activity each month ... At the end of the month, the book study overseer makes sure that all in the group have followed through on their responsibility to report their activity." "Regularity in Service Brings Blessings", Our Kingdom Ministry, May 1984, page 7. "Helping Irregular Publishers". Our Kingdom Ministry: 7. December 1987. "Keep the Word of Jehovah Moving Speedily". Our Kingdom Ministry: 1. October 1982. Chryssides, G.D. (1999). Exploring New Religions. Continuum International Publishing Group. p. 103. ISBN 0-304-33651-3. "Imitate Jehovah—Exercise Justice and Righteousness", The Watchtower, August 1, 1998, page 16. Holden & 2002 Portrait, pp. 26–27, 173 "Questions From Readers". The Watchtower: 30,31. June 15, 2002. Penton 1997, pp. 152, 180 "The Bible's Viewpoint What Does It Mean to Be the Head of the House?".Awake!: 26. July 8, 2004. "Christian Weddings That Bring Joy". The Watchtower: 11. 15 April 1984. Shepherd the Flock of God. pp. 37–38, 124–125. "How should individual Christians and the congregation as a whole view the Bible advice to marry "only in the Lord"?". The Watchtower: 31. 15 March 1982. Penton 1997, pp. 110–112 "Adultery". Insight on the Scriptures 1. p. 53. "Marriage—Why Many Walk Out", Awake!, July 8, 1993, page 6, "A legal divorce or a legal separation may provide a measure of protection from extreme abuse or willful nonsupport." "When Marital Peace Is Threatened". The Watchtower: 22. 1 November 1988. Beckford 1975, pp. 54–55 Penton 1997, pp. 106–108 Osamu Muramoto (August 1998).  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. . Journal of Medical Ethics 24 (4): 223–230.doi: Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. . PMC  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. . PMID  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. . The Watchtower April 15, 1988. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , "Do you shun former members? ... If, however, someone unrepentantly practices serious sins, such as drunkenness, stealing or adultery, he will be disfellowshipped and such an individual is avoided by former fellow-worshipers. ... The marriage relationship and normal family affections and dealings can continue. ... Disfellowshipped individuals may continue to attend religious services and, if they wish, they may receive spiritual counsel from the  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  with a view to their being restored. They are always welcome to return to the faith [emphasis retained from source]" "Display Christian Loyalty When a Relative Is Disfellowshipped". Our Kingdom Ministry: 3–4. August 2002. "Disfellowshipping-How to View It". The Watchtower: 24. 15 September 1981. "Appendix: How to Treat a Disfellowshipped person". Keep Yourselves in God's Love. Jehovah's Witnesses. 2008. pp. 207–209. Holden & 2002 Portrait, p. 163 "Disfellowshiping—How to View It", The Watchtower, September 15, 1981, page 23. "Do You Hate Lawlessness?", The Watchtower, February 15, 2011, page 31. Franz, Raymond. Crisis of Conscience. p. 358. Shepherd the Flock of God. Watch Tower Society. p. 119. "Questions From Readers", The Watchtower, January 1, 1983 pp. 30–31. "Should the Religions Unite?". The Watchtower: 741–742. 15 December 1953. "Is Interfaith God's Way?". The Watchtower: 69. 1 February 1952. Beckford 1975, p. 202, "The ideological argument states that, since absolute truth is unitary and exclusive of all relativisation, there can only 'logically' be one human organization to represent it. Consequently, all other religious organizations are in error and are to be strictly avoided. The absolutist view of truth further implies that, since anything less than absolute truth can only corrupt and destroy it, there can be no justification for Jehovah's witnesses having any kind of association with other religionists, however sincere the motivation might be." "15 Worship That God Approves". What Does The Bible Really Teach?. p. 145. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society, 1989, pages 435–436. "Live a Balanced, Simple Life", The Watchtower, July 15, 1989, page 11. Holden & 2002 Portrait, p. 12 "Keep Your Distance When Danger Threatens". The Watchtower: 23. February 15, 1994. "Steering Clear of Danger ... We must also be on guard against extended association with worldly people. Perhaps it is a neighbor, a school friend, a workmate, or a business associate. ... What are some of the dangers of such a friendship? We could begin to minimize the urgency of the times we live in or take a growing interest in material rather than spiritual things. Perhaps, because of a fear of displeasing our worldly friend, we would even desire to be accepted by the world." Holden & 2002 Portrait, pp. 109–112 Franz, Raymond (2007). In Search of Christian Freedom. Commentary Press. p. 409. ISBN 0-914675-17-6. ""Each One Will Carry His Own Load", The Watchtower, March 15, 2006, page 23. Bryan R. Wilson, "The Persistence of Sects", Diskus, Journal of the British Association for the Study of Religions, Vol 1, No. 2, 1993, "They have extensive contact with the wider public, [in Britain in 1989, 108,000 publishers undertook 23 million hours of house-calls]. Yet, they remain little affected by that exposure—they confine their contacts to their single-minded purpose and avoid all other occasions for association." Questions From Readers, The Watchtower, November 1, 1999, p. 28,"As to whether they will personally vote for someone running in an election, each one of Jehovah's Witnesses makes a decision based on his Bible-trained conscience and an understanding of his responsibility to God and to the State." Questions From Readers, The Watchtower, March 1, 1983, p. 30 Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  p. 178 Holidays The Watchtower 8/15/09 p. 22 par. 20 “Keep Yourselves in God’s Love” The Watchtower 9/15/68 p. 573 par 6 "The Seriousness of It" The Watchtower 10/15/92 p. 18 par. 21 "Work to Preserve Your Family Into God’s New World" Worship the Only True God, Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society, 2002, p. 159. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. Education, Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society, 2002, pp. 20–23 Owens, Gene (September 1997). "Trials of a Jehovah's Witness.(The Faith of Journalists)". Nieman Reports. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  Jehovah’s Witnesses Official Media Web Site Ronald Lawson, "Sect-state relations: Accounting for the differing trajectories of Seventh-Day Adventists and Jehovah's Witnesses", Sociology of Religion, Winter 1995, "The urgency of the Witness's apocalyptic has changed very little over time. The intellectual isolation of the Witness leaders has allowed them to retain their traditional position, and it is they who continue to be the chief purveyors of the radical eschataology ....This commitment (to principle) was bolstered by their organizational isolation, intense indoctrination of adherents, rigid internal discipline, and considerable persecution."




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