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Should true Christians use the word "Disaster"?


The Librarian
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Sometimes, I think we go overboard in insinuating the worst for words that have lost their original meaning in modern parlance and that have become just an expression for which there doesn't seem to be a better alternative. Years ago, (maybe even for some today) it was considered bad form to use the word "fortune" or "luck" - insinuating if we used those words we were invoking or crediting the "god of luck." Which to most people would seem absurd, but not to all - "unfortunately." I was reminded

God has not given any authority to the GB or the rest of the Leaders of the CCJW. Even the GB admit to NOT BEING inspired by God's Holy Spirit, and they admit that they 'err', or deliberately do wrong.  They used to pretend that Elders were appointed by Holy Spirit, but now they admit that Elders are NOT appointed by Holy spirit.  The GB have back tracked on many things. They constantly change the 'teachings' through the Watchtower.  The GB also deliberately 'forget' that the 'Bod

@Witness & @Srecko Sostar  you have both got me thinking on this now.  It is very interesting and it will get me re-reading the Greek Scriptures once again but from a different viewpoint.  However the NWT is what I've been using and now I'm thinking I need a different translation of God's Word.  The NWT does alter words to suit there own agenda, so a comparison would be nice, but in hard copy.  I know lots are available to read online but It would be great to get away fro

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8 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

I'm now using the name Yahweh

If you go to the Youtube channel for Hebrew language scholar, Nehemia Gordon, and listen to some of his presentations you will find that Yehovah is the correct pronunciation...... in his video he goes into all the deviations which you were discussing up above.

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10 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

to say "Father" or "Heavenly Father" w

He even discusses that.  If you want to know the truth and really want to follow the truth....... why make up a title ?   Do you want to know what is the true name of God is and its true pronunciation?  

This scholar goes into the number of times the titles for God is used in the bible such as God, Lord etc....... and he says the name Jehovah on average is used 3 times on every page in the Hebrew scriptures - much more than the other titles.  He says the tetragrammaton is there but the Jews replace it with the world lord or god when they read it.

He also indicates that it was after the destruction of Jerusalem that the practice of not using the name "Jehovah" became permanent tradition because the Romans burned a Rabbi (his tomb is still in Israel) for using the name Jehovah.  They wanted the name stamped out because it defined them as separate from other nations. 

Other Rabbis were in fear and stopped using the name. 

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@Arauna  , didn't took time to see videos you put. I think how G. Jackson gave some explanation on JWorg TV about "correct" and "wrong" pronunciation. But who can be sure does he know enough about it and what is his "agenda" :))

You gave explanation about two sort of reasons why pronunciation of name was not clearly known. Jew's tradition based on God's command to not using Divine Name in vain, and second is Roman's efforts to preventing any use of Divine Name. If Jews already not using Name in every day life nor in Temple, i am not sure what would be interest for Romans to prevent what was already not been practice in Jew's nation for very long time before Romans came on Israel territory.

I am not sure that using of noun "Father" as way of conversation to God, is in same range as other titles. Because using of this word speaking about specific relation between two persons. Even word "God" is specific and i am not thinking of it as merely as title of person who is creator of life. Problem with such words coming when individual in India or Asia want to explain or convince some individual in Europe or Africa what God is his God and therefore God for each and everyone in this World. :))

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18 hours ago, Witness said:

Because "hovah' is indeed a Hebrew word, it still portrays a "god of" "ruin, disaster".  

I don't see anywhere that "hovah" (which is it's own and separate word) is used in relation to, or as a description of God/Jehovah in the Bible or even "a god of" ruin, disaster. Only from you. There are at least 16 occasions - none of which point to God as being described. The fact that "Jehovah" has letters within it that spell out an entirely different word, does not warrant suggesting the whole word/name is contaminated because of that. I guess by your way of thinking, we should never refer to the town of "Shittim" because of...well you can figure it our for yourself. And on top of that, Shittim had a good historical connotation. Also, maybe you haven't considered Arauna's video post above or frankly the post of anybody who is an expert on Hebrew (which admittedly I am not, and neither are you apparently). I enjoyed the WT article you cited above. Thank-you for that.  But again even though experts may agree/disagree about the exact pronunciation of how Hebrews pronounced it thousands of years ago, doesn't mean we can't use an English version that has been popular for centuries and recognized globally. When the name "Jehovah" is used, everyone knows who is being referred to. Nobody blasphemously tries to insinuate he is some "disgusting" God - and as you've already read, even non-JW/religious people consider your suggestions blasphemous. As one website knowledgeable in Hebrew (also opposed to JW's - but also opposed to your logic) suggested, your hatred for the organization has blinded you so far that you allow yourselves to be used by the Devil - blasphemously taking God's name in vain (yes I know, maybe not pronounced exactly that way thousands of years ago, but we all know who is being referred to here). At some point, you and certain other posters here may want to seriously consider whose side you are taking. But I leave that up to you. I only got involved in this discussion because of a post initiated by the Librarian - not because I want to waste my time on apostates who live only to see the bad. I've heard your side of the story and you've heard mine. I respectfully agree to disagree with you - and of course you with me. I don't anticipate having anything further to add.

 

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1 hour ago, b4ucuhear said:

Arauna's video post above or frankly the post of anybody who

You are right.  He (Nehemia Gordon) does debunk the idea. He says that people who do this ( break up ye-hovah) have a very superficial knowledge of Hebrew.

There are few words with 2 root letters (consonants). In Hebrew.  Most words have at least 3 consonants. (Similar to Arabic).  I saw a video with Nehemia Gordon where he corrects this presenter in the above video.  

This presenter is confusing people because one cannot break up Hebrew words. Similar to the English word "enchanting" .  Take the 'en' off the front of the word and one has the word "chanting". Enchanting and chanting does not  have the same meaning.

 

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7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

can be sure does he know enough about it and what is his "agenda" :))

He is a language scholar. He critisized the scholars who have German as their first language because they are influenced by Yiddish.  Arabic speakers are also influenced  by Arabic.

He has collected more than a 1000 references in ancient hebrew manuscripts where the point system is present in Jehovahs name.  JWs use the pronunciation correctly.  

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4 hours ago, Arauna said:

He has collected more than a 1000 references in ancient hebrew manuscripts where the point system is present in Jehovahs name.  JWs use the pronunciation correctly.

We should still remember that Watchtower publications have admitted for decades that we chose to continue to use the common pronunciation, Jehovah, even though we considered Yahweh to be a more accurate pronunciation. 

From what I can tell, Nehemiah Gordon has found nothing new that was not already known by the Watchtower researchers (FWF) back in 1947 when they admitted that Yahweh was probably a more accurate Hebrew pronunciation than Jehovah. Remember that Gordon is almost exclusively looking at relatively RECENT manuscripts that have a Masoretic pointing system. He has found absolutely nothing new, but continues to hype up exactly what scholars and Hebrew Bible readers had already known to expect of all the manuscripts coming out of the relatively recent time period he focuses on. In fact, the vowel pointing that would support Yehovah/Yehowah, which he is finding, was long considered to be the solution to help readers AVOID pronouncing the name that way and to replace it with a word that better fit the vowels -- because it was so unlikely that God's name, as represented by YHVH would have had the same vowels as ah-doh-nay, or el-oh-him. If it was a purposeful diversion, as scholars have long thought, then what Gordon is pretending to "discover" could merely be evidence that Jehovah or Yahowah, Jehoveh are some of the specific pronunciations that would never have been used for the actual pronunciation.

It bothers me that Gordon pretends to discover things that have been known for centuries. It makes me think he is hyping up something to get attention for himself. It can't be that he doesn't know that all these things he has "discovered" were not already discussed for centuries, unless he really was a clueless scholar. I don't believe he could have bee that clueless, which makes me think he is dishonest.

And this has nothing to do with whether I think the name Jehovah is just as appropriate as Yahweh for current usage. I think it's just fine for the exact same reasons that the Watchtower publications (and NWT) have stated that Jehovah is fine for us today, even though the Watchtower also admitted that Yahweh was probably more accurate to the Hebrew. 

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3 hours ago, Arauna said:

Take the 'en' off the front of the word and one has the word "chanting". Enchanting and chanting does not  have the same meaning.

What a bunch of slippery yoyos hanging out here! Making up a ‘hovah’ word Sheesh! It reminds me of how the evangelicals tried to say that early translators simply made just an honest mistake in mistranslating the word ‘kaaru’ so as to make scriptures say what they wanted them to say, and Rabbi Singer called them on it. There is no ‘kaaru’ he said. No such word—or rather there wasn’t until you coined it to cover your dishonest tracks:

    Hello guest!

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I'll go with this them

Quote @JW Insider We should still remember that Watchtower publications have admitted for decades that we chose to continue to use the common pronunciation, Jehovah, even though we considered Yahweh to be a more accurate pronunciation. 

As many have said before the GB / CCJW / W/t do it for convenience, not for truth. 

Why would a true Christian want to use the wrong name ?

 

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29 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

Why would a true Christian want to use the wrong name ?

There is no evidence that Yahweh is the right way either. We use language to be understood, not to perfectly match historical pronunciations. No one who speaks English pronounces the name "Jesus" the way it was pronounced by Greeks and Judeans and Galileans in his own day.

"Wrong" would be if it could not be easily understood who we were referring to.

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