Revelation 5:9,10 - "On the Earth" vs. "Over the Earth"

[Evacuated]

1 hour ago, 4Jah2me said:

I am now sat ON my chair. I am not sat over my chair. To be ON something means touching it or resting on it.  To be over something means to be above it.  

You might need to check some basic rules on the use of the English language as well as for the Greek prepositions, then try and discern what Rev 5:10 is referring to. I am sure you will get there in the end one way or another, bit like SS did. 

Thinking of your astute observation re SM,  about those who appear to be one and the same, you wouldn't have a twin would you? Or maybe a doppelganger or even a clone? I am sure I recognise something in your cut an' run style of argument from somewhere...........🤔

BTW, @Anna has pipped me to the post with her excellent doctrinal/contextual points above. So much so, there is really no need to elaborate further on this question.  🙂

[Space Merchant]

@Witness And yet Biblehub correlates with the same thing, as is with EVERY KNOWN SOURCE, even Blueletter. The other problem is you pointed out to fit their belief, show us what you are conveying.

I ask you, 4Jah2me and Srecko to point out as to how their view of Revelations 5:10 differs from nearly 100% of Non-Trinitarians. It is quite simple because even you stated they are incorrect, so according to the view of the common Non-Trinitarian, how are the Jehovah's Witnesses, who are not even Trinitarians, differ when within Christianity itself there are only 2 views, 2 beliefs, 2 viewpoints regarding this same verse?

You told me 2 times before, you are among the Chosen Ones, yet Kosenen and I thought otherwise, and even those out there who were confused at the information you post from that website you tend to use. So it is quite baffling as to how you yourself do not fully know well of what this specific verse means concerning people like you, that is, if you are indeed one because now the brow has been raised.

As a side note, I have mentioned several times the one I admire, Solider of God, a Chosen One among those who is to serve with the Christ, knew fully well what Revelations is all about, when he became Christian, he started from Revelations because, although he is not the best speaker, let alone not too great to put things together to explain, he himself, when he was alive, knew what Revelations was about, even all of chapter 5, to him, it was no more as a puzzle, when put together shows spiritual context of the matter. If he were still alive right now, he'd be saying the same thing I am saying to you right now.

[Space Merchant]

13 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

WTJWorg GB know. :))

The irony here is the Bible tells us, as with all other sources, for there is but 1 view for God's Kingdom. You can't be this Biblically dense, Srecko....

On 6/12/2020 at 1:40 PM, Space Merchant said:

You do realize that God's Kingdom is in heaven - right?

God rule will be over the earth from HIS heavenly realm (Revelation 11:15), This is why the Bible calls, in 2 Timothy 4:18, The Heavenly Kingdom.

God's King will rule from God's Kingdom, and is accompanied by the chosen ones. They govern all things on the earth. The key element here is this: not the area, but the authority which they exercise.

Amazing how the latter few agreed with you when the context says otherwise regarding God's Heavenly Kingdom. Even the JWs know that, as is with the majority. How on God's green earth you did not know this as is with 4Jah2me, who did not know this either?

13 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

They said they are living in Spiritual Paradise now and here. According to this claim people could conclude how Kingdom is on Earth, because Jesus as King is coming in 1914 to visit the Earth. Obviously he stay and spread his Kingdom around the globe with a little help and by means of WT Society.

Perhaps GB source for this knowledge is also in Bible hub? 

Also you said how WTJWorg speak the truth. Well we have Two Witnesses for same claim: You and WTJWorg GB.

You keep running to hold the hands of JWs again, 1914 can be talked about, I am talking about God's Kingdom and the Chosen Ones. Why again are you deviating?

If you claim that they are wrong about Revelations 5:10, and when asked to show us this claim, you could not, and now you go to another suibject the whole 1914 thing? Remember we are focused here, after all, you said one time you are always focused.

This just shows you have unfounded claims, just pulling things out of thin air, hoping it would stick and admire the audience. There are been some very poor comments about you and 4Jah2me on this subject matter elsewhere, I'd gladly quote them if need; granted the reactions from these Christians, they themsevles point out to the fact that the Non-Trinitarian view of Revelations 5:10 is absolutely correct.

That being said,

Address the questions that you been asked to answer. If you can even do that, with 1 John 4:1 being applied here, I can freely deem you a lair, and most importantly, Scripturally blind.

 

[Witness]

2 hours ago, Anna said:

Jehovah would literally have to  be seated on a throne ON earth in order for Jesus, 

The early tabernacle/tent housed God's spirit.  In that sense, He resided among the people.  The "living stones" also "house" God's spirit.  They become the dwelling of God. 

1 Cor 3:16,17- “Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst?  f anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person; for God’s temple is sacred, and you together are that temple.”

We know God's spirit is not locked in one place such as a literal heaven, but can be everywhere.

1 Chron 17:5-6 "I have not dwelt in a house from the day I brought Israel up out of Egypt to this day. I have moved from one tent site to another, from one dwelling place to another. ⁶ Wherever I have moved with all the Israelites, did I ever say to any of their leaders whom I commanded to shepherd my people, “Why have you not built me a house of cedar?”’

The WT teaches that the 144,000 ruling "over" a people on earth requires being seated above them....literally.  Christ spiritually does "rule" over his anointed body members, as the head of the body. Yet, it is one spirit that flows through those members.  They are "one" in spirit.

“My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.  John 17:20-23

 

God will reside with His children on earth through the dwelling of His spirit - through the Body of Christ/Temple of "stones" - "144,000"

“Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and He will dwell with them. They will be His people, and God himself will be with them and be their God” Rev 21:3

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Space Merchant]

3 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

I am now wondering if Outta Here and SM are one and the same person .

You think Outta Here and I are the same because we whole the Non-Trinirarian view of what the verse tells us, Butler?

That is the most absurd way of trying to get yourself out of the position of answering the very thing you claim as true. Question Dodging, as addressed to Srecko, will not work, granted 1 John 4:1 is still ongoing. Best know whenever a Christian uses 1 John 4:1 in discussion, there is a very legitimate and strong reason as to WHY it is being used.

3 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

They have the same way of talking rubbish. 

Rubbish, you sound like JB more because every time it comes to Scripture context and Strong's, JB said the same thing all the time.

That being said, if it is rubbish, as you claim, prove it. I asked you many, many times, and every single time you evade and dodge.

If you are going to make a claim, but not back yourself up and switch to silly appeal to motive, dodging and Jester in the King's court type of tactics, one can already see you are incorrect and in the wrong.

What you stated, elsewhere, Christians deemed you a lair, so clearly they know the verse in question more.

There is only #e74c3c;">2 viewpoints of belief on this verse, clearly the latter does not believe that God and Jesus are the same person, let alone the Holy Spirit being a person, so you have a pool to fill if you can prove they are Triune believers.

What I find rubbish however, out of this discussion, you did not even know what God's heavenly Kingdom met, as is with location.... That is indeed rubbish, and you made the claim, not me, or anyone here, for Srecko and Witness' sake, but they would not point this out.

4 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

I am now sat ON my chair. I am not sat over my chair. To be ON something means touching it or resting on it.  To be over something means to be above it.  

You can be this serious with your logic? With the Bible? The Modern English Language to interpret the wording of the verse?

Thank you for saying this because there is more out there that will have quite the laughs and giggles, as is with refutes with your response. Once I get more messages, I will quote them here just to show you how horrendous they see your claims and responses are.

4 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

Move on ..........................

#27ae60;">You haven't proven your #e74c3c;">claim #27ae60;">yet, the spotlight is on you.

#27ae60;">Remember, no #e74c3c;">question dodging#27ae60;">, in your case, you have to #e74c3c;">answer your own claims.

21 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

#e74c3c;">Evading/Evasion (Question dodging) in ethics

#2980b9;">Question dodging is a rhetorical technique involving the intentional avoidance of answering a question. This may occur when the person questioned either does not know the answer and wants to avoid embarrassment, or when the person is being interrogated or questioned in debate, and wants to avoid giving a direct response.

If you do not know what 1 John 4:1 says, I will cite it for you:

#c0392b;">Test the Spirits

#2980b9;">Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

[Witness]

27 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

I ask you, 4Jah2me and Srecko to point out as to how their view of Revelations 5:10 differs from nearly 100% of Non-Trinitarians

I am not interested in the doctrine of men.  I am interested in the scriptural harmony of truth. 

[Space Merchant]

8 minutes ago, Witness said:

I am not interested in the doctrine of men.  I am interested in the scriptural harmony of truth. 

We are talking about Scripture. There are 2 views, #e74c3c;">one of Scripture and solely that, the other, uses Scripture based on Creeds.

I feel as though the fact me mentioning this down is the reason why the latters are quite.

So I ask you to prove the claim of yours. You said their viewpoint differs to fit their doctrine granted the verse in question. Can you show if it is in the wrong or in the correct.

You, Witness, are a Non-Trinitarian, which is evident, clearly you understand what is conveyed here, therefore, it should not be this difficult to focus on the context of this verse, which can be narrowed down to a single sentence.

You should be interested because Christians are preachers, they preach the gospel, the truth, are they not after all? Matthew 9:35; 24:14, 28:19-20 Mark 13:10, 1 Corinthians 9:16, Colossians 1:23, 1 Peter 1:12 and Revelations 14:6?

Teachings that are far beyond of what is taught, we teach truth do we not (Galatians 1:1-11)?

That being said,

Regarding the verse, one should not be this withholding of themselves of elementary context.

[Witness]

35 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

So I ask you to prove the claim of yours. You said their viewpoint differs to fit their doctrine granted the verse in question. Can you show if it is in the wrong or in the correct.

I have brought out scripture after scripture.  If that is not enough to prove the point, then you are blind.

[Srecko Sostar]

4 hours ago, Anna said:

Daniel 29:30 says a kingdom will rule OVER the earth: #ffffff" data-hashtag="ffffff" data-hashtag-id="58">#ffffff; color:#a54400; font-size:16px; text-align:start">But after you another kingdom will rise, #ffffff" data-hashtag="ffffff" data-hashtag-id="60">#ffffff; color:#a54400; font-size:16px; text-align:start"> inferior to you; then another kingdom, a third one, of copper, that will rule over the whole earth.

As @Outta Here already explained,  you can rule on or over and it doesn't make much difference in the context under discussion. However, grammatically I would prefer to rule over @4Jah2me if I become Queen of England,  not on him.

In any case, it is quite clear Revelation 5:10 is talking about pesons in heaven. If we were to apply it to an earthly scene, Jehovah would literally have to  be seated on a throne ON earth in order for Jesus,  "the lamb who was slaughtered" to be seated next to him ON earth. We know Jesus went to heaven and sat at the right hand of God in heaven. We also know that Jesus promised his followers in the 1st century that they would be seated next to him. We know there is a heavenly hope. So for clarities sake it is more accurate to say they will be ruling over the earth rather than on it. Evidently, saying on the earth is confusing, as made evident by the need to make this a topic for discussion in the first place.

#8e44ad;">For the sake of argumentation, for wider context and to complete more about visions about "coming", i put some Bible verses, no matter what we have in mind while reading it and no matter about "versions" and interpretations we can make based on this verses: 

Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen.  - Rev 1 7

For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. - 1 Thess 4 16,17

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also. - John 14 3

And said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.” - Act 1 11

#8e44ad;">It is interesting to notice past ways how God dealing with His Kingdoms. Old Israel Kingdom was visible on Earth with visible King on Earth. Jesus as His King also lived visible on Earth and established his Kingdom on Earth in shape of visible Congregation.

The Kingdom of God is not coming with striking observableness;  nor will people say, ‘See here!’ or, ‘There!’ For look! the Kingdom of God is in your midst.” - Luke 17 21

#8e44ad;">:)))) so much about theology, mine, your's or Bible hub's

[Space Merchant]

4 hours ago, Witness said:

I have brought out scripture after scripture.  If that is not enough to prove the point, then you are blind.

I am not talking about Scripture, I am talking about the context of said Scripture that points to the view. 

You said it yourself, they are at fault in this regard, if that is the case, why not state their view vs. the actual view? This in of itself is deemed impossible regardless due to the fact the latter do not believe Jesus is God.

Therefore, #e74c3c;">ALL Non-Trinitarians believe this regarding Revelations 5:10 - That Jesus is King, and his heirs, the chosen ones, will be with him in God's heavenly Kingdom.

In this thread alone, we see that you agreed with the others to say that their view is incorrect, you even stated that it is to fit their doctrine concerning Revelations 5:10, but the reality is, they hold this view concerning this verse, therefore, they are not going outside of the legit context of this verse as you had claimed. I find it that this is the reason the lot of you did not want to point this out and only purposely do this because it is the fact they are JWs; and unknown to you I had paraphrased something without you noticing from Scripture that you and I both agreed with in the past concerning the chosen ones (I did this on purpose), thus, proves said context is true regarding Revelations 5:10, and the fact your previous responses on this point shows the hypocrisy.

I'd also like to point out that your exegesis on G#1909 is a weak one, because we see here you are using your own thinking, therefore, no teaching as been blown into pieces, be it if any of the 1909s is used (on, over, above, upon). But what to expect from someone who attempt to add their own thinking into the verse to deem God an evildoer at one point, for that time, context and Strong's was used to correct you.

 

That being said, they are indeed in the right concerning this verse, therefore, you and the others can be deemed as lairs because you said their view point is outside of what Christians believe. The problem here is because they believe it, as with 100% all Non-Trinitarians, including you.

#e74c3c;">The other view is vastly different. Those that believe that Jesus is God tend to believe of the chosen ones, but most do not believe in a specific number. They state that Jesus is both Alpha and Omega, as is, him being, to quote most of them, "Lord God Almighty". We know that Jesus hands back the Kingdom to God, but the latter things otherwise, that this Kingdom is for him and by him. We can clearly see this contextual view of Revelations 5:10 is wrong. No Non-Trinitarian Christian would think of this view, let alone get this message from Revelations 5:10. So yes, according to you, it is man made, and yes according to you, this is a different doctrine in this degree, and regarding JWs and Restorationists, as with every single Non-Trinitarian out there, they do not believe this view, just as both you and I.

[Space Merchant]

@Witness @4Jah2me @Srecko Sostar 

I may as well put The Trinity Team on the spot. You've all been asked several times to answer claim - To which all of you stated that regarding Revelations 5:10, that the latter's view is outside of the belief of what Christians who do not believe in the Trinity believe. As we can see, thanks to Witness' help, who did not see what I had unknowingly added to the response to her, it further proves my point.

Granted none of you, at all, wanted to even quote the ones you called as lairs, I will do you the favor because it just shows what spirit you really have in this regard, and as I had told you 1 John 4:1 is the last thing you ever want a Christian to use against you in a discussion.

I am marking this one because there are some Christians who really want to know who you guys are, granted I only quoted you to them.

I will quote the Non-Trinitarian commentary again:

On 6/12/2020 at 1:40 PM, Space Merchant said:

• #e74c3c;">As for context:#16a085;"> It is regarding God's accomplishment. The purpose of restoring the earth under Kingship by means of the heavenly Kingdom, that consist of Lord Christ Jesus as the King, accompanied by the chosen ones [priests], whom have authority. As a whole, due to their divinity and connection, they make it possible to bring forth the earth into what God intended it to be, harmoniously aligned with God's original promise, thus fulfilling this purpose of restoration.
• #e74c3c;">More context:#2980b9;"> Verse 10. - And hast made us unto our God kings and priests; and didst make them to be unto our God a kingdom and priests. Of those whom thou didst redeem from every nation, thou didst make a kingdom and priests. Wordsworth remarks that these honours conferred upon the redeemed imply duties as well as privileges. They receive the princely honours conferred upon them only on condition that they also become priests, presenting themselves, their souls and bodies, a living sacrifice to God.

 

Here is the view of the JWs, of which I had asked you guys several times to address:

Quote

THOSE WHO COME FROM THE EARTH

#ffffff; border:0px; color:#333333; font-size:14.6667px; padding:0px; text-align:start">

“You [Jesus] bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”— Revelation 5:9, 10.

Just as Jesus was resurrected from earth to life in heaven, others will be too. Jesus said to his faithful apostles: “I am going my way to prepare a place for you. Also, . . . I will come again and will receive you home to myself, so that where I am you also may be.”—John 14:2, 3.

Those who go to heaven go there for a purpose. Along with Jesus, they will make up a Kingdom government that will eventually rule over the inhabitants of all the earth and bring blessings to them. This is the Kingdom that Jesus told his followers to pray for in the model prayer: “Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified. Let your Kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also on earth.”—Matthew 6:9, 10.

“As in Heaven, Also Upon Earth”

This salvation with two destinies, heavenly and earthly, is mentioned in a vision seen by the apostle John. He saw kings on heavenly thrones who had been chosen from among Christ’s faithful disciples. The Bible specifically states regarding these associates of Christ that “they are to rule as kings over the earth.” (Revelation 5:9, 10). Note the dual aspect in the accomplishing of God’s purpose—a restored earth under the direction of a heavenly Kingdom made up of Jesus Christ and his joint heirs. All these divine arrangements make possible the final restoration of the earthly Paradise in accord with God’s original purpose.

It is crazy, to me, as to how you guys could not do this simple thing. This view of theirs is not of their own doctrine, no, it is a teaching that people who believe that Jesus is the Son of God, profess, regarding the Kingdom that is to come. As noted to Witness, there is only 2 views, and clearly the actual view has nothing to do with the belief of a Triune God concept, therefore, this view is indeed the correct one.

The claim that the belief has been changed is false, granted the context of this verse is abundantly clear, hence, the reason why you all feared to even quote them or cite them, it was not that difficult.

Next, we have the Literal Greek and the Strong's. The Interlinear Bible.

Quote

#fcfdfd; border:0px solid #000000; color:#40454d; font-size:1.1em; padding:1.3em 0px 0px; text-align:start"> What Is an Interlinear Bible?

#fcfdfd; border:0px solid #000000; color:#0a0a0a; font-size:16px; padding:0px; text-align:start"> Many people think that a faithful translation of the Bible means a word-for-word translation. If the verse in Hebrew contains ten words, then ten English words should be used to translate the verse. If the Greek text contains eight words, then only eight English words are necessary to translate it. To be a faithful translation of the original text, each Hebrew and Greek word should have a corresponding English word. Yet this is not the way translation works.

#fcfdfd; border:0px solid #000000; color:#0a0a0a; font-size:16px; padding:0px; text-align:start"> The idea of corresponding English word, or words, which matches with the original text of Scripture, is not found in translations, but rather in interlinear Bibles. We must appreciate the fact that an interlinear Bible is different from a translation.

#fcfdfd; border:0px solid #000000; color:#40454d; font-size:16px; padding:1.3em 0px 0px; text-align:start"> This Is Not a Translation

#fcfdfd; border:0px solid #000000; color:#0a0a0a; font-size:16px; padding:0px; text-align:start"> An interlinear Bible is not a translation. It is a tool that helps identify Greek and Hebrew words with their English translation. For example, in an interlinear of #39547f; padding:0px" rel="external nofollow">Matthew 1:18, the English words under the Greek words would look something like this:

#eaeff2; border-radius:6px; border:1px solid #c5d2e0; color:#0a0a0a; font-size:0.9em; padding:1em 1.6em; text-align:start"> of moreover Jesus Christ the birth in this manner was after having been engaged the mother of him Mary to Joseph before to come together they she was found with a stomach having from spirit holy

#fcfdfd; border:0px solid #000000; color:#0a0a0a; font-size:16px; padding:0px; text-align:start"> This example makes a couple of things obvious. First, it is not possible to translate Greek words with only one English word. Certain Greek words need a number of different English words to convey their meaning. In addition, some words do not translate by themselves. Second, it is not possible to keep the same word order in English as in the original. To do so would make no sense whatsoever. This example illustrates this fact. While there are places in Scripture where the word order is similar to English, this verse is more the rule than the exception. It shows why translations cannot usually reproduce the word order of the original—it will not make sense in English.

#fcfdfd; border:0px solid #000000; color:#40454d; font-size:16px; padding:1.3em 0px 0px; text-align:start"> The Value of an Interlinear

#fcfdfd; border:0px solid #000000; color:#0a0a0a; font-size:16px; padding:0px; text-align:start"> An interlinear can be useful to find which particular Greek or Hebrew word that is used for the English translation. Beyond this, they are not really much help. In fact, they can be misleading to someone who does not understand the grammar of the original languages. The best thing a student can do is to learn the biblical languages. If this is not possible, then owning an interlinear will only be of limited use.

#fcfdfd; border:0px solid #000000; color:#0a0a0a; font-size:16px; padding:0px; text-align:start"> Summary - Question 6
What Is an Interlinear Bible?

#fcfdfd; border:0px solid #000000; color:#0a0a0a; font-size:16px; padding:0px; text-align:start"> An interlinear Bible is not really a translation. It lists the Hebrew or Greek word in one line and below the Hebrew or Greek word is the corresponding English word, or words, that translate the meaning of the original word. An interlinear will make two things absolutely clear. First, it is not possible to have one English word correspond to one Hebrew or Greek word—it just will not work.

#fcfdfd; border:0px solid #000000; color:#0a0a0a; font-size:16px; padding:0px; text-align:start"> In addition, the order of the words in the original cannot be kept in the English translation. If one attempts to do this, it will not result in good English. Neither will it convey the message of the biblical writer. A translation needs to be able to use one or more English words to translate the corresponding Greek or Hebrew word. Furthermore, the order of the words usually has to be changed in the English translation to make sense out of the passage. Therefore, the interlinear only has limited value.

Therefore, with knowing this information, a true and honest Bible reader will not spout the silly ignorance you guys are spouting right now. Learn what an Interlinear Bible is all about, as I told all 3 of you in the past, learn your Strong's, and as embarrassing as it is to say this to you - learn what the context of a Bible verse or passage means, I say this because this is not the first nonsense yous guys did, one with nakedness, the other believing God sends evildoers, the other conveying things that often does not make sense, but changes subject. Christians such as yourself can easily misguide and confuse others, as examples of this elsewhere had already been addressed. That said, it proves the point that you cannot rely on the Bible alone regarding analyzing verses, never have you done so, never will you do so, and I've yet to see any thread that correlates to that, for two of you attempt, thinking that Judge and Prophetess Deborah ran a church.

 

This is what I have so far out of the 8 I messaged, once I get the final responses from the colorful ones, I will address it here.

Quote

 

There is another forum I am in and the discussion is in regards a specific word in the Greek Language. It is "epi". The issue here is there are a selected few who views are not that well equipped to understand the whole Literal to Modern English concept, for they had issue with the words such as "upon, over, on, etc." anything pertaining to GS1909. What do you think? Also I PM'd using your email you that quote from one of these people.

• Quote [1] "Hello, I really don't see what the whole fuss is about. It's very obvious what the word means. Normal readers who are not too good with reading the bible, if that is the case, will see it as they read it, but, us as bible readers, we can see the word in question is used properly. So, Revelation 5 verse 10 is alright. If it is an interlinear to the modern language, the wording will be a little different to make it readable and easily digestible to the honest reader."on the earth", "over the earth", "upon the earth", "above the earth", we know what the verse means so any translations that looks like this does not change the viewpoint of what I am about to say next. God's Kingdom is above us after all, and the Messiah and his ruling buddies are reigning upon the earth [from God's Kingdom], well, soon of course :p. The verse is also telling us that this is about ruler-ship, for the heirs of the Kingdom will co-rule as little kings and judges upon those who are living on the earth, make sense right? Of course. But may God have mercy on that poor soul. For the ignorant do not know any better, but if this person is doing this and knows what their doing, that is a very sad and misguided human being. I do love questions, anything else or is this a one time visit, TRH?"

"I'm always here, just not as active as I use to be, but I am as I am when it comes to just the section about Scripture. I just send emails regarding questions and the like. Not the discord though, but I was invited to one to explain Titus 2:13, for an angry Christian thought I was wrong about it, I'll use Kel as a source."

• "Feel free to come back anytime, it is not as lively as it use to be here, we just talk about shows and lifestyle. Save those souls, for the Christ. They need to be rescued."

 

What do you think about the Jehovah's Witnesses' view of Revelation 5:10? Also seen any threads on Strong's references to the word "epi"? You think the wording changes what the verse conveys?

• Quote [2] "Well you can't really ask them since COVID-19 happened = no preaching the good news in public lol (unless they protection from the virus) lol, but thanks for the email, that is a good question, I will respond since you gave me rep. Although I agree with and disagree with things about Jehovah's Witnesses, that verse fits the view of a whole lot of us - Jesus is the King of the Kingdom, just as David was King. Jehovah is the Father and the God of Israel, no questions regarding that, well, unless you believe in the Trinity Doctrine. He has his Only-Begotten Son, Jesus, and we know Jehovah made Jesus Lord, and he made him Christ, can't remember the verse, I am running on fat free milk here, pandemic weight loss program lol. Their view is simple and you can see it on their website jw.org too, I'd link it, but my email might get marked as spam, so just look for the verse there and find what they believe, it is similar to the ones on the Bible websites. So from what I am reading, is they believe that the 144,000 faithful servants will rule with the Lamb of God over the earth, some translations reign will sometimes show as they reign, and over can sometimes be seen as on, upon, whatever, but what the verse is telling us is clear, The Jdubs even made note of this without even talking about strongs, it is on their website. I do not believe the wording changes what the Bible is telling us, unless, you have been too busy in the Devil's world to realize it 😛. So the Jehovah's Witnesses holds the view that I have, and I am sure you as well because we all know there are some out there who hate it, but they are right tho."

"Check this out, this person, is from another forum I am now part of, no longer go by the name TRH and the like. This is what he said - From the Greek it reads ..... and they are reigning upon the earth.... But in the NWT it reads  ........ and they are to rule as kings over the earth. He is reading from the Bible translations produced by JWs, the interlinear and the New World Translation Bible, what do you think?"

• "Sorry for the late reply, errands. COVID-19 may be holding other brothas and sistas down, but not me tho, NOT THIS GUY lol, I got a family to feed :D. So the is issue is the wording, yes?"

"Yes. This person fully well believes that the wording in the verse, as I mentioned to you, changes everything, he even deems the Non-Trinitarian view as false."

• "Does this guy (or gal) understand what the verse is saying? The wording is not such a big issue, that interlinear that JWs have is literal greek to english, the NWT is a modern english Bible. The wording is good, double checked the strongs website, so I don't see the problem. But even tho, the verse is clear. I don't want to be mean, but if he or she really is acting up because of that, that is straight up stupidness. I understand JW hate like they REALLY hate them, but not everyone does, only like 3% of old members harbor that hate. The knock on the door around 7am tho omg lol, but still, they believe what the Bible is talking to them about. Other than that, hood, you must get a lot of fun out of things you should debate Ben Shapiro lol, but even if you are right, the other person will always cover their ears and say you are wrong, but in their heads, they'll say omg he's right lol! Anything else?"

"No, that is all I need to hear. I may msg you for chat again because I have another response from someone regarding the holy spirit, holy ghost as he puts it because he claims if we speak truth, we are demons without the spirit. This guy has lost his marbles."

• "If that was brought up in a debate, just speak the truth. Speaking the truth is what got Jesus and his friends into trouble, right? That's okay, because the truth about something or someone is always 100% right."

 

I am just making note as I go, so such ones can give answer. You really can't blame them either because speak the same thing. I'll probably make this none elsewhere just to further close this case. This time on the CSE and HSE, where the Biblical sane and knowledge tend to be, as I use to be.

[Witness]

2 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

It is crazy, to me, as to how you guys could not do this simple thing

You did it just fine.     It was simple, wasn't it.  We all have access to the JW website, including you.  I honestly don't have the foggiest idea how the doctrine of the trinity got involved, because I don't read all that you carry on about.

I stated my case using scriptures against WT's doctrine that 144,000 will not step foot on the earth in the Kingdom of God.  We have all stated our case, including you.