Was Jesus Anointed at His baptism ?

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

23 hours ago, Witness said:

The battle of Armageddon takes place within each one of us, not on the playground of Satan. It involves our choice of either truth or lies. 

I do not agree with this. (highlighted for the benefit of others) My reasoning is that the scriptures say that God / Christ will bring to ruin those ruining the Earth. And there has to be a complete Judgement of ALL people living on the earth so that the earth can be cleansed. This has to be done all at one time. 

If Armageddon was 'within' as you say then the 'world' would continue to be ruled over by the Devil and suffering would continue forever. 

 

[Anna]

This is what the Aid book has to say:

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200012397?q=jesus+baptism&p=par

The outpouring of holy spirit at the time of Jesus’ baptism marked the time of his becoming in actual fact the Messiah, or Christ, God’s Anointed One (the use of this title by angels when announcing his birth evidently being in a prophetic sense; Luke 2:9-11; note also verses 25, 26). For six months John had been ‘preparing the way’ for the “saving means of God.” (Luke 3:1-6) Jesus, now “about thirty years old,” was baptized over John’s initial objections, voiced because John till then had been baptizing only repentant sinners. (Matt. 3:1, 6, 13-17; Luke 3:21-23) Jesus, however, was sinless; hence his baptism testified instead to his presenting himself to do his Father’s will. (Compare Hebrews 10:5-9; see BAPTISM [Jesus’ Baptism in Water].) After Jesus had ‘come up from the water,’ and while he was praying, “he saw the heavens being parted” and God’s spirit descended upon Jesus in bodily shape like a dove, and Jehovah’s voice was heard from heaven, saying: “You are my Son, the beloved; I have approved you.”—Matt. 3:16, 17; Mark 1:9-11; Luke 3:21, 22.

God’s spirit poured out upon Jesus doubtless illuminated his mind on many points. His own expressions thereafter, and particularly the intimate prayer to his Father on Passover night, 33 C.E., show that Jesus recalled his prehuman existence and the things he had heard from his Father and the things he had seen his Father do, as well as the glory that he himself had enjoyed in the heavens. (John 6:46; 7:28, 29; 8:26, 28, 38; 14:2; 17:5) It may well have been that the memory of these things was restored to him at the time of his baptism and anointing.

Jesus’ anointing appointed and commissioned him to carry out his ministry of preaching and teaching (Luke 4:16-21), and to serve as God’s Prophet. (Acts 3:22-26) But, over and above this, it appointed and commissioned him as Jehovah’s promised King, the heir to David’s throne (Luke 1:32, 33, 69; Heb. 1:8, 9), and to an everlasting kingdom. For that reason he could later tell Pharisees: “The kingdom of God is in your midst.” (Luke 17:20, 21) Similarly, Jesus was anointed to act as God’s High Priest, not as a descendant of Aaron, but after the likeness of King-Priest Melchizedek.—Heb. 5:1, 4-10; 7:11-17.

Jesus had been God’s Son from the time of his birth, even as the perfect Adam had been “the son of God.” (Luke 3:38; 1:35) The angels had identified Jesus as God’s Son from birth onward. So, when, after Jesus’ baptism, his Father’s voice was heard saying, “You are my Son, the beloved; I have approved you” (Mark 1:11), it seems reasonable that this declaration accompanying the anointing flow of God’s spirit was more than just an acknowledgment of Jesus’ identity. The evidence is that Jesus was then begotten or brought forth by God as his spiritual Son, “born again,” as it were, with the right to receive life once more as a spirit Son of God in the heavens.—Compare John 3:3-6; 6:51; 10:17, 18; see BAPTISM (Baptism into Christ Jesus and into His Death); ONLY-BEGOTTEN.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

13 hours ago, Anna said:

This is what the Aid book has to say:

Thank you, but I have little or no trust in the Aid book 

13 hours ago, Anna said:

But, over and above this, it appointed and commissioned him as Jehovah’s promised King, the heir to David’s throne (Luke 1:32, 33, 69; Heb. 1:8, 9), and to an everlasting kingdom. For that reason he could later tell Pharisees: “The kingdom of God is in your midst.” (Luke 17:20, 21)

So that would say, that as I've said, Jesus was King from his baptism onward and the Kingdom was in existence here on Earth at that time. But neither I nor the Watchtower / Aid book writers are inspired of God's Holy Spirit.

But we come back to the point, that if,  it appointed and commissioned him as Jehovah’s promised King, then and there at His baptism, then why do the Watchtower / GB / Org say he was made King in 1914 ? 

From that same item you quoted / linked :-

"Following his resurrection, Jesus informed his disciples, “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth,” thereby showing that he heads a government of universal domain. (Matt. 28:18) The apostle Paul made clear that Jesus’ Father has “left nothing that is not subject to him [Jesus],” with the evident exception of “the one who subjected all things to him,” that is, Jehovah, the Sovereign God. "

But, Jesus spoke those words whilst still human and here on earth. So it seems that whomever wrote this Watchtower Aid book section would have known that Jesus was King whilst Jesus was alive here on earth. 

So please tell me about 1914 ? What am I not understanding ? 

 

[Witness]

9 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

If Armageddon was 'within' as you say then the 'world' would continue to be ruled over by the Devil and suffering would continue forever. 

Joel 3:14 - Multitudes, multitudes
    in the valley of decision!
For the day of the Lord is near
    in the valley of decision.

We know that God isn't talking about a literal valley called "decision" in the last days.  We must "decide" within our heart what to choose - truth or lies -  life in Christ, or death in the darkness of Satan's "world".  

"This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live"  Deut 3:19

 

One war, we will physically see.  That one is Satan’s diversion from the spiritual war at hand – the vital war to note. Although war began when Adam and Eve chose to listen to the lie, (Gen 3:15) the symbolic book of Revelation (Rev 1:1) explains what the culmination of this war is.  It is the war against those “kings” in Christ, and those who have left him to serve the father of the LIE. (John 8:44)  They have broken their covenant with God by tolerating falsehoods spoken from the mouths of false prophets and a powerful organization that rules over them. (Isa 28:15; Hos 8:1; 4:6)  (Matt 24:24, 15,16; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1-3)  They are spiritual harlots.  (Hos 4:12;6:10; Rev 17:3-8)

This is hostility between covenants and their “seed”, one of life in Jesus Christ and one of death under the Destroyer. (Gen 3:15; Rev 12:17) Armageddon involves the “kings of the earth” – which means those who will be found faithful, and those who have transgressed their covenant in Christ.  That’s what’s important to notice!  It doesn’t involve the political kings of the world.

Rev 1:5 explains that the kings of the earth are Christ’s kings.  (Rev 5:9,10)                                                  Rev 6:15; 16:14; 17:2; 17:18; 18:3; 18:9; 19:19; 21:24 then continues to describe the war involving his faithful kings and the unfaithful kings - https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?qs_version=KJV&quicksearch=kings+of+the+earth&begin=73&end=73

These scriptures give the essence of the end battle of Armageddon:

Rev 16:13-16 – “And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. ¹⁴ For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

¹⁵ “Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.”

¹⁶ And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon.”

You’ve always said, the Bible was written for the anointed.  Well, that includes the battle of Armageddon, but I say it is written about the anointed, and those with them who must heed the meaning of Revelation in the last days. (Rev 18:4-8)

What comes out of the mouth of false prophets, but lies?  The two Beasts of Revelation work together; the false prophet directs the Beast from the Sea, that rises up from the wicked. (Isa 17:12-14; 57:20,21) Under the direction of governing leaders, this Beast “makes war with the saints.”  (Rev 13:1,2,4-7,11,12,15)

The war includes JWs with them, those of the “whole world”.  It is based on one’s decision to listen to truth, or to listen to lies coming from the mouths of these “kings”.   

 Yes, knowing that Satan has a short period of time left, (Rev 12:12) he will devise a military diversion tactic from the most important war at hand – the spiritual war. (1 Pet 5:8; 2 Cor 10:4; Eph 6:11; 1 John 4:4) We see what the governing leadership has always concentrated on – the world’s politics, military conflict and a literal “king of the north”. They put the blame continually on Christendom’s sins.  That takes the heat off of what “trampling” is happening to God’s saints in the organization. (Dan 11:31-45)  This lying tactic has been very successful.  God’s holy people are under a “spell” – but it is their choice, their decision to remain with it. (1 Tim 4:1) Only by God reading our hearts and bestowing His grace to see us safely out, can one survive.  (Isa 42:16; Rev 16:12; Rom 8:19)

 Our hearts are sealed by our decision to search for justice and truth, or to love the lie.  (2 Thess 2:9-12)  Only a remnant of the anointed will be found to escape this trap – only a remnant of JWs who leaves Satan’s darkness, turn to Christ.  That has always been the case with God’s people when they have transgressed His decrees.  (Rom 9:27-29; Rev 11:1-3,7-10)

 You’ve entered the “valley of decision” and have decided to reject lies.  You have cut yourself off from false teachers and are looking for truth to be spoken through faithful anointed.  You have “come out of her” (Rev 18:4) where spiritual harlots sit on “many waters”, which are poisoned teachings and those who drink them up. (Rev 8;10,11; 17:15) Their defense is to call the faithful, the apostates. D. Splane’s latest talk to be available on the website this coming week, is about apostate “teachers” with “poisoned teachings”.  The GB, who obviously endorse lies, are fighting back with the faithful anointed ones very words used against them. 

Can you see how this is war against “kings” and what comes out of their mouths?

God is not the destroyer.  He can pass the decree that destruction is to take place, and He can also limit destruction as we see in the example of Job.  We also see that it was Satan who came against Job; and it will be Satan in his rage, who destroys the “earth”, until God says enough is enough. (Dan 7:26-28)   Satan is raging against the anointed in Christ, NOW.  I can’t even describe the extent, the destruction that Satan has caused in my physical life since leaving the organization.  Presently, I am evacuated from my home because of fires that are being held up as lack of diligence on the forest service’s part. They will face litigation.  But the house still stands despite all incredible odds.  God knows just how much we can tolerate, as in Job’s case. 

The primary war at hand is Satan’s lust to destroy the “woman’s seed”; both those faithful and those in his trap such as you were in, where he has “surrounded” them.  Rev 20:7-9  A literal war in Satan’s world could last for years and years and never give “birth” to Kingdom. (Job 14:4) What does bring the Kingdom, is the fulfillment of the New Covenant promise in the faithful, cleansed, anointed remnant and the completion of the Temple of God in Christ.  (Zech 4:6,7; Mal 3:1-5)  

 Do JWs realize this?  No, they believe their organization will survive a physical onslaught and be present in the Kingdom of God, its buildings included.  Their view is totally physical. Notice in 1 Cor 6:6-10 who the "rulers" were that could not perceive the spiritual wisdom of God, and who killed Jesus Christ.  Today's "rulers" "kill"/disfellowship the faithful anointed in Christ - men who have no spiritual wisdom.  

JWs believe they are “safe” without even noticing the trampling of God’s priesthood under the covenant “woman” which is being attacked. (1 Thess 5:3; Rev 12:1-5)

 God removes His spiritual protection from those who refuse to turn back to Him, and Satan is allowed to  step in.  This is how the nation of Israel suffered when sinning and committing idolatry. 

We also have evidence of who did the destroying, brought the plagues, and killed the firstborn in Egypt.  

“He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them.”  Ps 78:49

“For the Lord will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the Lord will pass over the door, and will not suffer (meaning “grant”) the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.”  Exod 12:23

 

The Kingdom will not arrive until the “harvest” of the sons of God is complete – the harvest of those in Christ who are faithful, and the harvest of the weeds that face condemnation by God’s Word. (Matt 13:24-39) Any person who has lived, and anyone on the earth right now, both the good and the bad, will be judged by the Father in righteousness.  That, we leave up to God. 

What’s important for JWs, is their decision to either continue to listen to the lies that their leaders tell them, or to search out truth that Christ is providing – outside of the apostate city. (John 16:2; Heb 13:13; Rev 13:15) That truth, is the understanding of Revelation – the “wedding banquet of the Lamb”.  (Matt 22:1-14; 25:1-13)    We know that the temple in the anointed has been “given over to the Gentiles”/elders.  Yet, the GB somehow say the “temple” of 2 Thess 2:3,4 being trampled, is some sort of literal holy place…where, the UN and Christendom is involved?  It specifically states in 2 Thess 2:3,4, that it is God’s temple being dominated/trampled.   On the other hand, they tell every JW that they ARE NOW the spiritual temple.   This is confusion from conniving false teachers, that I believe are preparing to produce “new light” about 2 Thess 2:3,4.  If all JWs are taught now as God’s Temple, how easily they can then point to a physical nation coming against JWs, as the “man of lawlessness”.    Blasphemy.   

As far as the earth being ruined?  It can be applied in a few ways: The first “earth” being ruined is God’s land/His dwelling in the hearts of the anointed, by the man of lawlessness who has trampled down His dwelling place/temple in the anointed.  1 Cor 3:16,17; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Rev 11:1-3  Revelation speaks of the great locust scorpion army/elder body that afflicts God’s unsealed anointed.  Notice what it says,

“They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads.”  These elements of the earth can refer to people, to JWs.  Every person in the organization who stands against the elder army are afflicted.  (Rev 9:1-6)

Yet any destruction of the literal earth by the destroyer, will be restored to life.  What is the primary destruction that Christ will cause?  He will destroy death.  (1 Cor 15:26; Rev 20:10,14,15).  When Christ returns, the man of lawlessness is destroyed by the “breath of his mouth”, the Word of God, which is like “fire”.  ( 2 Thess 2:8; Jer 23:29; Rev 20:10,14,15)

God’s Word is the judge.  He can surrender us to perish under the covenant of death; or we are protected under the covenant of “life” in Jesus Christ, even if we lose our physical life. (John 1:4; 10:10; 6:58)

“Woe to you, destroyer, you who have not been destroyed! Woe to you, betrayer, you who have not been betrayed! When you stop destroying, you will be destroyed; when you stop betraying, you will be betrayed.”  Isa 33:1

 

https://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.com/2014/10/when-is-satans-short-period-of-time.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Witness]

4 hours ago, Witness said:

Notice in 1 Cor 6:6-10 who the "rulers" were that could not perceive the spiritual wisdom of God, and who killed Jesus Christ.

Correction, this should be 1 Cor 2:6-10

[JW Insider]

On 7/21/2021 at 1:20 PM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

@JW Insider I would like your honest personal opinion about this and it would be nice to know the Watchtower teaching on this too. Would you be kind enough to read it from the top of page. 

As soon as I saw this on the 21st, I wrote a response that disappeared just as I was about to "Submit Reply." I figured that it was probably a bad sign that my computer touchpad was jumping the cursor all over the place, but it was probably a good sign that I shouldn't keep writing 3 page responses to a simple question. So I didn't try to rewrite it, and went on to other things.

To my surprise, I came back here today and see that @Witness gave nearly the exact response that I had written. I even gave that response of hers an upvote, and I even agree with much that is in the second response she gave right after it.

• (Luke 3:21, 22) . . .Now when all the people were baptized, Jesus too was baptized. As he was praying, the heaven was opened up, 22 and the holy spirit in bodily form like a dove came down upon him, and a voice came out of heaven: “You are my Son, the beloved; I have approved you.”
• (Luke 4:1) . . .Then Jesus, full of holy spirit, turned away from the Jordan, and he was led about by the spirit in the wilderness
• (Luke 4:17, 18) . . .So the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him, and he opened the scroll and found the place where it was written: 18 “Jehovah’s spirit is upon me, because he anointed me to declare good news to the poor.. . .

Then I had added a few additional verses, starting with:

(Acts 10:37, 38) . . .starting from Galʹi·lee after the baptism that John preached: 38 about Jesus who was from Nazʹa·reth, how God anointed him with holy spirit and power, and he went through the land doing good and healing . . .

(Hebrews 1:5-9) . . .For example, to which one of the angels did God ever say: “You are my son; today I have become your father”? And again: “I will become his father, and he will become my son”? . . . ⁸ But about the Son, he says: “God is your throne forever and ever, and the scepter of your Kingdom is the scepter of uprightness. ⁹ You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions.”

Along with this, to help explain the context in Hebrews, I had added that the expression "You are my son, today I have become your father," was a formulaic expression for the anointing of kings like David and Solomon. This is clearly how Hebrews 1 is using it with the idea of the throne and scepter and the obeisance and "his Kingdom" -- "that is why . . . God anointed" him. 

@Witness had gone directly to Psalm 45:7 which Hebrews quotes from and then used some of the same additional scriptures about the anointing of kings.

On 7/23/2021 at 5:45 PM, Witness said:

The literal anointing of oil in the early days of the nation’s kings, signified that that person was chosen to reign as king. (1 Sam 9:16; 15:1; 2 Sam 12:7; 1 Kings 19:15…) Also the priesthood was anointed as signifying that God had chosen those under the lineage of Aaron to be a priest. (Num 25:10-13; 3:10; Lev 10:8-11; Mal 2:7)

@Witness went a little further on this point and added the priests to the equation and therefore tied in later scriptures in Hebrews (and Revelation, etc.) about how the kingdom is also a priesthood, which I had not thought to mention. But Hebrews happens to tie the priestly appointing (anointing) as part of the same event when Jehovah said at Jesus' baptism: "You are my son, today..."

(Hebrews 5:1-6) . . .For every high priest taken from among men is appointed in their behalf over the things relating to God, so that he may offer gifts and sacrifices for sins. . . . . 4 A man does not take this honor of his own accord, but he receives it only when he is called by God, just as Aaron was. 5 So, too, the Christ did not glorify himself by becoming a high priest, but was glorified by the One who said to him: “You are my son; today I have become your father.” 6 As he also says in another place, “You are a priest forever in the manner of Mel·chizʹe·dek.”

Also, you will notice that the article @Anna posted from the Aid book contains several of the same points that Witness made.

The one point I take some exception too, @Patiently waiting for Truth, is that you have made more of the specific timing as if it is the most important thing to get out of this. And you may have "summoned" my take on this because you know that I will agree that it indicates the Kingdom did not start in 1914. I agree that it doesn't. But this doesn't mean we need to focus on exactly when Jesus was appointed as King or Priest, or when the Kingdom started, or when he was "King-Designate." Recall that David was anointed (by Samuel) before he became King, and that he was hailed as King by his early followers before he was officially made King after Saul's death.

Specific timing of appointments and titles is not the importance of scripture to us today. It's the "fact" of Jesus' appointment to the "offices" of king and priest and mediator and his own sacrifice as a ransom payment for sin. Is it wrong to say Jesus was born king? Or what about the prophet Simeon?

(Matthew 2:2) . . .“Where is the one born king of the Jews? . . .

(Luke 2:25-32) . . .And look! there was a man in Jerusalem named Simʹe·on, and this man was righteous and devout, waiting for Israel’s consolation, and holy spirit was upon him. 26 Furthermore, it had been divinely revealed to him by the holy spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Christ of Jehovah. 27 Under the power of the spirit, he now came into the temple, and as the parents brought the young child Jesus in to do for him according to the customary practice of the Law, 28 he took the child into his arms and praised God and said: 29 “Now, Sovereign Lord, you are letting your slave go in peace according to your declaration, 30 because my eyes have seen your means of salvation 31 that you have prepared in the sight of all the peoples, 32 a light for removing the veil from the nations and a glory of your people Israel.”

I'll fall back on the argument that even if Jesus wasn't yet officially "anointed" ("Christ") at birth, he was designated ("appointed") to this purpose and this meant it was as good as accomplished for those who have faith in the fulfillment of Jehovah's purpose.

 

[Witness]

33 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

I'll fall back on the argument that even if Jesus wasn't yet officially "anointed" ("Christ") at birth, he was designated ("appointed") to this purpose and this meant it was as good as accomplished for those who have faith in the fulfillment of Jehovah's purpose.

Then Pilate said to him, “So then you are a king!” Jesus replied, “You say that I am a king. For this reason I was born, and for this reason I have come into the world: in order that I can testify to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears my voice.”   John 18:38

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

13 hours ago, JW Insider said:

The one point I take some exception too, @Patiently waiting for Truth, is that you have made more of the specific timing as if it is the most important thing to get out of this. And you may have "summoned" my take on this because you know that I will agree that it indicates the Kingdom did not start in 1914.

Thank you for your time and patience, and for your opinion.

The points of, when Jesus became King and about, when the Kingdom first started, are important to me. And the point about 1914, in my opinion, should be important to everyone that is searching for truth.  

But please compare that with the JW viewpoint about the Cross or the Stake. 

Also compare it with certain people on this forum that 'brag' about JWs 'knowledge' concerning, the trinity, immortality of the soul, hell fire   etc...  The Watchtower / Org enjoys making known such things, but maybe not so happy when their own teachings are questioned. 

Whilst I do admit that the Watchtower / Org has made things clearer to those that may have believed in the mainstream church teachings, have the same W/t / Org replaced untruth with, untruth ? 

As the Watchtower / GB / Org keep pushing 1914 as one of their 'Core beliefs' or main doctrines, then it is obviously a foundation stone on which the JW Org is standing. If this foundation stone were to crumble, would the JW Org fall ?

I have personally got to the point where I care not if the W/t / JW Org stands or falls, because it is not important. What is important is TRUTH.  ALL people on earth right now deserve to be taught truth. Truth about God and Christ, and about 'the things which are about to take place'. 

That truth has to be based on a firm truthful foundation.  

Once again thank you for your input. 

[Witness]

2 hours ago, JW Insider said:

As soon as I saw this on the 21st, I wrote a response that disappeared just as I was about to "Submit Reply." I figured that it was probably a bad sign that my computer touchpad was jumping the cursor all over the place, but it was probably a good sign that I shouldn't keep writing 3 page responses to a simple question.

This cursor jumping has happened to me many times over the last few years as well as all sorts of strange computer difficulties.  I figure it is demonic intervention, since Satan would rather squelch any truth about his enemy, Jesus Christ.  

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, Witness said:

This cursor jumping has happened to me many times over the last few years as well as all sorts of strange computer difficulties.  I figure it is demonic intervention, since Satan would rather squelch any truth about his enemy, Jesus Christ.  

Satan—the great anti-typical hacker!

Nah, I think it just means your computer is a piece of junk, like mine. Mine wheezes like the Tardis—pull the plug & it instantly dies, for the battery died ages ago. The cord must be secured with duct tape because I ripped it out too many times moving and catching it on things. Long ago I learned to compensate for the squirrelly touchpad with keyboard workarounds. And Windows & security software grows exponentially complicated, so that the ‘engine’ is overwhelmed and sporadically & unpredictably moves quite slowly. I have to shut down each application after using it in hopes the entire machine will not freeze up. Sometimes it does anyway, and then it is a hard reboot for me, which may take 15 minutes to find my place again. 

It is not the Devil. (Unless Bill Gates is the Devil, which some people think for other reasons.)

Fortunately, most of what I do, such as right now, I do on my iPad, on which I can leave 20 apps open and 20 webpages with barely a hiccup.

Laptop repairs are too costly. I should just get a new laptop. I will in time. But the Harleys have a long history of not discarding anything until the last tiniest vestige of life has expired in it and I don’t mean to be the first one to break family tradition. Besides, even with cloud storage, there are always some aggravating (if not devastating) hassles in moving from one machine to another.

[Pudgy]

9 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Besides, even with cloud storage, there are always some aggravating (if not devastating) hassles in moving from one machine to another.

...sigh ...... I know the feeling.

It's worse when you only have four stubby fingers, and your thumbs are  half way up the back side of your front legs.

[Pudgy]

... I have to type this on a Abacus ....