JW Children and baptism

[Pudgy]

Here is a Zinger!

There is no biblical example of ANYONE being baptized as anything other than as a full responsible adult.

Jesus was what … 30 years old?

 

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, George88 said:

How is the article on adult deceit related to baptism?

WTJWorg claims that children are not enough mentally competent.

quote: "Children are not fully developed in their ability to think, to reason, or to recognize and avoid danger."

Consequently, this means that they are not mature enough to make decisions about their religious affiliation with the WTJWorg through the act of baptism, because; "they are not fully developed in their ability to think, to reason and to recognize and avoid danger" for dedicating his life to the Religious Corporation.

1 hour ago, George88 said:

Are you suggesting that deception can't occur beyond anyone's control, even among adults?

No. How on earth you came to such conclusion? 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, George88 said:

Jesus showed great spiritual maturity when he was found at the temple by his parents. Even at a young age, Jesus had a clear understanding of his true Father's will.

"Children are not fully developed in their ability to think, to reason, or to recognize and avoid danger."  - claim made by by WTJWorg

[Srecko Sostar]

22 minutes ago, George88 said:

That's just your subjective viewpoint.

All personal opinions are subjective.

All collective opinions are objective.... from the perspective of the group.

25 minutes ago, George88 said:

What is the meaning behind your repeated actions?

The saying goes that repetition is the mother of wisdom. That's why I'm repeating it to you, so that you can learn new knowledge. lol

27 minutes ago, George88 said:

The absence of specific mention of young individuals being baptized in scripture does not negate the possibility of young people being baptized by John the Baptist, unless scripture explicitly states otherwise and can be proven by you.

Recognition of the concept of the sword cutting both ways is crucial.

WTJWorg's biggest argument against (infant and children, too) baptism in the Catholic Church is all the Bible quotes that, while describing "Biblical Baptisms," do not include infants and children, but only men and women (Act 8:12). You are now making the argument that the "absence of a specific mention", in the Bible, "does not negate a possibility of" certain practice.

So you really want to go with such a clumsy way of proving that the Bible doesn't forbid something or how Bible allow something, just because it doesn't talk, write about that something? The Bible does not say anything against, say, celebrating birthdays. God nowhere forbids you to celebrate the day of your birth. So how could WTJWorg, based on the absence of a prohibition in the Bible, claim that God hates birthdays?

You now claim that "young people" may have been baptized in the time of John the Baptist. Does the group "young people" include young men and women or minor children? ("Minor" in possible biblical terminology, and also "minor" in today's terminology) And why don't you use the only term that is correct in the context of this topic, which is the term "children"? .....,"Children are not fully developed in their ability to think, to reason, or to recognize and avoid danger." 

Children, not "young people". 

Paul said: “John baptized with the baptism in symbol of repentance,a telling the people to believe in the one coming after him,b that is, in Jesus.” . Act 19:4

"But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women" - Act 8:12

Bible purport of term "people" here are "men and women", not children. 

[Pudgy]

7 hours ago, George88 said:

By the way, pudgy, please do not burden me with the responsibility of taking care of your puppets. Srecko and Matthew are your companions, not mine. Ha! Ha!

 

[Pudgy]

I think the issue of underage baptism needs to be evaluated the same way other decisions are made by minors …. and since a Baptism Covenant and dedication between a person and God CANNOT BE UNDONE … except by God … it should be made with that foremost in mind.

This is a Covenant Of Dedication, allegiance and fealty to God and his Christ ….

ONLY!

1.) At what age should a lesser decision be made by a minor about getting married? I say at least 18, and for about 1/4 of the population 24 to 30.

2.) At what age should a lesser decision be made by a minor about getting a driver’s license? I say at least 18, if they can pass the exams.

3.) At what age should a male or female decide that they want to be surgically mutilated, by circumcision or “transgender” reassignment? I say at least 30.

4) At what age should a man or woman be allowed to take up recreational parachuting? I say at least 18.

5. At what age should a person be allowed to join a military organization? I say at least 18, preferably 24.

6.) At what age should a person be allowed to consume alcohol, or other recreational drugs? I say 18 as a minimum.

7.) Since the JW baptism oath of today legally binds you to obey the policys and directives of the “Organization”, under pain of being disfellowshipped, and exiled, and shunned, and the same to every JW that knows you that does not do the same, at what age should a young person be baptized? I say 18, the same as any secular military organization.

In scripture ONLY men and women were baptized. Jesus was Bar-Mitzpah’d at age 12, presumably, but waited to be baptized until he was 30.

Why?

A person, boy or girl, should not make a decision at age 8, 10, 12 or before age 18 that has the potential to later HAVE OTHERS DESTROY THEIR AND THEIR FAMILIES’ LIVES.

These conclusions are only my personal opinions, but they have a rational basis.

Like circumcision, male or female … baptism cannot be undone.

If the Society would allow shunning to be a personal decision of each individual in the Congregation, and release all the hostages from their oath of fealty and obedience to the WTB&TS “Organization”, so they cannot be sued because they are members of a private legal covenant … I would withdraw my objection to an 8 year old being baptized.

For a change …. let God decide.

The Baptism Covenant should be between individual people and God and Christ ONLY.

Earthly accountants, lawyers, and overreaching tyrants who promise to rule well, BUT INTEND TO RULE ANYWAY, should not be involved.

It took them 80+ YEARS to figure out beards!

[Pudgy]

There is a LESSON TO BE LEARNED from the “Beard Fiasco” …. Perhaps many lessons.  

The question is … how many tens of thousands of the Brotherhood will be collateral damage every year until those lessons are learned?

 

[Pudgy]

And now it’s time for the multi-name Whack-A-Moles and his/her/they/thems’ minion up and down voting doppelgänger sock puppets to have their say ….

[Srecko Sostar]

4 hours ago, George88 said:

Do you truly believe that only men and women will be saved?

We are talking about the baptism of children. 

[Pudgy]

…. Ol’ Whack-A-Mole George likes to “move the goalposts” and try to get you to run to it.

His favorite tactic, designed to obfuscate and deceive, is to change the parameters of what is being discussed, redefine the terms, and try to get you to answer a dozen almost relevant questions that would each take an Epistle essay to straighten out from his revised false premises.

So transparent it’s laughable … and I do.

[Srecko Sostar]

4 hours ago, George88 said:

Only a very few recognize that Satan has directed the course and path of human culture and trends.

GB refers to the culture and trend of the business world and politicians, so it allowed the wearing of beards. GB is what the threat is. 

[Pudgy]

…

Harsh, but fair.

They did say specifically in Governing Body Update 2023-8 that the example they used for guidance was powerful and respected mens’ customs of the world.

( rolls eyes and facepalms forehead )

The only thing I can imagine is that at their weekly meeting on Wednesday sometime in December an Angel with a flaming sword appeared and “read them the riot act” … or their accountants told them they were bankrupt.

Or possibly some Multi-Billionaire with a Beard was recently baptized.

…. merely guesses.

The Warren Commission Report on the assassination of President John F. Kennedy was issued on September 24, 1964.

Before I die, I would like to read a non-fiction version.