JW Children and baptism

[Pudgy]

You crack me up!

They are YOUR SOCK PUPPETS!

[Pudgy]

 

[Srecko Sostar]

13 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

⁷ Children are not fully developed in their ability to think, to reason, or to recognize and avoid danger. (1 Cor. 13:11) 

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2019400

WTJWorg has made a public statement with very clear meaning regarding the mental capacity of children. They made a general statement that covers all children.

As  supposed proof that their claim is justified and correct, they used one biblical verse.
In what context is Paul's statement from this biblical quote applicable? 

Its 13th chapter deals with the spiritual and religious aspects of one's understanding of God's dealings with men. He talks about knowledge and love and faith. Paul is not talking about CSA. Nor is there any indication that he was alluding to the CSA.

WTJWorg used it in the context of a life situation that can affect the youngest members of a family and society in general.

Why do you think that this is the only application that this Bible passage can cover? Don't JWs teach that the Bible is the Word of God that helps people in ALL circumstances of life?

I dismiss your criticism as baseless. I am horrified by your ability and desire to try to selectively apply what WTJWorg baselessly uses only for their current needs of religious domination over people. This shows that you are a successful "student" of your spiritual "teachers".

[Pudgy]

Here is a Zinger!

There is no biblical example of ANYONE being baptized as anything other than as a full responsible adult.

Jesus was what … 30 years old?

 

[George88]

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

WTJWorg has made a public statement with very clear meaning regarding the mental capacity of children. They made a general statement that covers all children.

How is the article on adult deceit related to baptism? You and Pudgy are evading addressing these two distinct aspects even though Pudgy connects them like you, appearing contradictory.

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Its 13th chapter deals with the spiritual and religious aspects of one's understanding of God's dealings with men. He talks about knowledge and love and faith. Paul is not talking about CSA. Nor is there any indication that he was alluding to the CSA.

Here we are, in the year 2024. You have consistently brought up the issue of CSA, even though the governments seem to be turning a blind eye to it. It's important to realize that we don't have the ability to single-handedly transform the world or solve all its problems. Perhaps it's time to release the burden and focus on things within our control.

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Why do you think that this is the only application that this Bible passage can cover? Don't JWs teach that the Bible is the Word of God that helps people in ALL circumstances of life?

Are you suggesting that deception can't occur beyond anyone's control, even among adults? Or do you possess knowledge of individuals with extraordinary abilities? Alternatively, is your inquiry related to the distinction between the Old Testament and the New Testament in the context of baptism, which you have yet to fully comprehend?

7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I dismiss your criticism as baseless. I am horrified by your ability and desire to try to selectively apply what WTJWorg baselessly uses only for their current needs of religious domination over people. This shows that you are a successful "student" of your spiritual "teachers".

Should the same standard be applied to your criticism when you are unable to link two different applications? What you are doing, in addition to being misleading, is distorting facts. Any competent teacher would expose this to a Bible student.

[George88]

Jesus showed great spiritual maturity when he was found at the temple by his parents. Even at a young age, Jesus had a clear understanding of his true Father's will. Is "Pudgy" implying that Jesus couldn't have been baptized at twelve, simply because pudgy says so? Such a claim would require a significant argument to be made before God.

[George88]

By the way, pudgy, please do not burden me with the responsibility of taking care of your puppets. Srecko and Matthew are your companions, not mine. Ha! Ha!

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, George88 said:

How is the article on adult deceit related to baptism?

WTJWorg claims that children are not enough mentally competent.

quote: "Children are not fully developed in their ability to think, to reason, or to recognize and avoid danger."

Consequently, this means that they are not mature enough to make decisions about their religious affiliation with the WTJWorg through the act of baptism, because; "they are not fully developed in their ability to think, to reason and to recognize and avoid danger" for dedicating his life to the Religious Corporation.

1 hour ago, George88 said:

Are you suggesting that deception can't occur beyond anyone's control, even among adults?

No. How on earth you came to such conclusion? 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, George88 said:

Jesus showed great spiritual maturity when he was found at the temple by his parents. Even at a young age, Jesus had a clear understanding of his true Father's will.

"Children are not fully developed in their ability to think, to reason, or to recognize and avoid danger."  - claim made by by WTJWorg

[George88]

10 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

WTJWorg claims that children are not enough mentally competent.

quote: "Children are not fully developed in their ability to think, to reason, or to recognize and avoid danger."

Yes, it is true that danger exists. However, what relevance does it have to baptism? It is worth noting that even an adult who has been baptized can still fall victim to deception.

14 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Consequently, this means that they are not mature enough to make decisions about their religious affiliation with the WTJWorg through the act of baptism, because; "they are not fully developed in their ability to think, to reason and to recognize and avoid danger" for dedicating his life to the Religious Corporation.

That's not entirely accurate! That's just your subjective viewpoint. I'm curious, what does the term "baptism" signify to you?

17 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

No. How on earth you came to such conclusion? 

Your logic.

15 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

"Children are not fully developed in their ability to think, to reason, or to recognize and avoid danger."  - claim made by by WTJWorg

What is the meaning behind your repeated actions? You continue to move in circles without any resolution. Had God wished it, Jesus could have been baptized at the age of 12. 

 

The absence of specific mention of young individuals being baptized in scripture does not negate the possibility of young people being baptized by John the Baptist, unless scripture explicitly states otherwise and can be proven by you.

Recognition of the concept of the sword cutting both ways is crucial.

[Srecko Sostar]

22 minutes ago, George88 said:

That's just your subjective viewpoint.

All personal opinions are subjective.

All collective opinions are objective.... from the perspective of the group.

25 minutes ago, George88 said:

What is the meaning behind your repeated actions?

The saying goes that repetition is the mother of wisdom. That's why I'm repeating it to you, so that you can learn new knowledge. lol

27 minutes ago, George88 said:

The absence of specific mention of young individuals being baptized in scripture does not negate the possibility of young people being baptized by John the Baptist, unless scripture explicitly states otherwise and can be proven by you.

Recognition of the concept of the sword cutting both ways is crucial.

WTJWorg's biggest argument against (infant and children, too) baptism in the Catholic Church is all the Bible quotes that, while describing "Biblical Baptisms," do not include infants and children, but only men and women (Act 8:12). You are now making the argument that the "absence of a specific mention", in the Bible, "does not negate a possibility of" certain practice.

So you really want to go with such a clumsy way of proving that the Bible doesn't forbid something or how Bible allow something, just because it doesn't talk, write about that something? The Bible does not say anything against, say, celebrating birthdays. God nowhere forbids you to celebrate the day of your birth. So how could WTJWorg, based on the absence of a prohibition in the Bible, claim that God hates birthdays?

You now claim that "young people" may have been baptized in the time of John the Baptist. Does the group "young people" include young men and women or minor children? ("Minor" in possible biblical terminology, and also "minor" in today's terminology) And why don't you use the only term that is correct in the context of this topic, which is the term "children"? .....,"Children are not fully developed in their ability to think, to reason, or to recognize and avoid danger." 

Children, not "young people". 

Paul said: “John baptized with the baptism in symbol of repentance,a telling the people to believe in the one coming after him,b that is, in Jesus.” . Act 19:4

"But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women" - Act 8:12

Bible purport of term "people" here are "men and women", not children. 

[Pudgy]

7 hours ago, George88 said:

By the way, pudgy, please do not burden me with the responsibility of taking care of your puppets. Srecko and Matthew are your companions, not mine. Ha! Ha!