JW Children and baptism

[George88]

5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

All personal opinions are subjective.

All collective opinions are objective.... from the perspective of the group.

Indeed, the truth lies in questioning the coherence of these topics. When a theme contradicts itself, together with the involved parties, what kind of collective reasoning can be both subjective and objective?

5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

The saying goes that repetition is the mother of wisdom. That's why I'm repeating it to you, so that you can learn new knowledge. lol

To a comedian, an intellectual seeks depth and substance. When something worth learning is posted then I will agree with your obsevartion. 

5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

WTJWorg's biggest argument against (infant and children, too) baptism in the Catholic Church is all the Bible quotes that, while describing "Biblical Baptisms," do not include infants and children, but only men and women (Act 8:12). You are now making the argument that the "absence of a specific mention", in the Bible, "does not negate a possibility of" certain practice.

However, this contradicts your goal, as stated in Matthew 28:19, which also applies to young people who demonstrate spiritual maturity through repentance. What does it demonstrate if you contradict your own statement?

5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

So you really want to go with such a clumsy way of proving that the Bible doesn't forbid something or how Bible allow something, just because it doesn't talk, write about that something? The Bible does not say anything against, say, celebrating birthdays. God nowhere forbids you to celebrate the day of your birth. So how could WTJWorg, based on the absence of a prohibition in the Bible, claim that God hates birthdays?

This is your objective not mind. Focus!

5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Children, not "young people". 

Paul said: “John baptized with the baptism in symbol of repentance,a telling the people to believe in the one coming after him,b that is, in Jesus.” . Act 19:4

"But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women" - Act 8:12

Bible purport of term "people" here are "men and women", not children. 

You have just contradicted your previous statement. It is important to focus on and stand by your principles. The terms "men" and "women" simply indicate male and female. What was Jesus' view of children, and why did the apostle Paul emphasize spiritual maturity?

You've made a conflicting comparison and are now trying to avoid defending your illogical position.

Do you truly believe that only men and women will be saved? What other elements are included in baptism apart from repentance in the New Testament that were connected to atonement in the Old Testament?
You have yet to provide evidence that proves the connection between baptism and the potential hazards of deceiving children.

[George88]

This statement comes from the Tommorrows World magazine. Nov-Dec 2023 edition.

Adults may see through this, though many are clearly persuaded by the not-always-so-subtle pitches. But what about our children and grandchildren? Do they recognize that adults—who themselves are deceived by the spirit ruler of this world—are shaping their malleable minds, baking into them various anti-Bible agendas?

Behind it all is that “prince of the power of the air” who hates God and His institution of the family. Only a very few recognize that Satan has directed the course and path of human culture and trends. Consider how successful he has been in promoting tattoos to the minds of those who accept his propaganda—contrary to God’s explicit prohibition (Leviticus 19:28). How many comprehend this and make decisions accordingly? Page 2

 

[Pudgy]

I think the issue of underage baptism needs to be evaluated the same way other decisions are made by minors …. and since a Baptism Covenant and dedication between a person and God CANNOT BE UNDONE … except by God … it should be made with that foremost in mind.

This is a Covenant Of Dedication, allegiance and fealty to God and his Christ ….

ONLY!

1.) At what age should a lesser decision be made by a minor about getting married? I say at least 18, and for about 1/4 of the population 24 to 30.

2.) At what age should a lesser decision be made by a minor about getting a driver’s license? I say at least 18, if they can pass the exams.

3.) At what age should a male or female decide that they want to be surgically mutilated, by circumcision or “transgender” reassignment? I say at least 30.

4) At what age should a man or woman be allowed to take up recreational parachuting? I say at least 18.

5. At what age should a person be allowed to join a military organization? I say at least 18, preferably 24.

6.) At what age should a person be allowed to consume alcohol, or other recreational drugs? I say 18 as a minimum.

7.) Since the JW baptism oath of today legally binds you to obey the policys and directives of the “Organization”, under pain of being disfellowshipped, and exiled, and shunned, and the same to every JW that knows you that does not do the same, at what age should a young person be baptized? I say 18, the same as any secular military organization.

In scripture ONLY men and women were baptized. Jesus was Bar-Mitzpah’d at age 12, presumably, but waited to be baptized until he was 30.

Why?

A person, boy or girl, should not make a decision at age 8, 10, 12 or before age 18 that has the potential to later HAVE OTHERS DESTROY THEIR AND THEIR FAMILIES’ LIVES.

These conclusions are only my personal opinions, but they have a rational basis.

Like circumcision, male or female … baptism cannot be undone.

If the Society would allow shunning to be a personal decision of each individual in the Congregation, and release all the hostages from their oath of fealty and obedience to the WTB&TS “Organization”, so they cannot be sued because they are members of a private legal covenant … I would withdraw my objection to an 8 year old being baptized.

For a change …. let God decide.

The Baptism Covenant should be between individual people and God and Christ ONLY.

Earthly accountants, lawyers, and overreaching tyrants who promise to rule well, BUT INTEND TO RULE ANYWAY, should not be involved.

It took them 80+ YEARS to figure out beards!

[Pudgy]

There is a LESSON TO BE LEARNED from the “Beard Fiasco” …. Perhaps many lessons.  

The question is … how many tens of thousands of the Brotherhood will be collateral damage every year until those lessons are learned?

 

[Pudgy]

And now it’s time for the multi-name Whack-A-Moles and his/her/they/thems’ minion up and down voting doppelgänger sock puppets to have their say ….

[Srecko Sostar]

4 hours ago, George88 said:

Do you truly believe that only men and women will be saved?

We are talking about the baptism of children. 

[Pudgy]

…. Ol’ Whack-A-Mole George likes to “move the goalposts” and try to get you to run to it.

His favorite tactic, designed to obfuscate and deceive, is to change the parameters of what is being discussed, redefine the terms, and try to get you to answer a dozen almost relevant questions that would each take an Epistle essay to straighten out from his revised false premises.

So transparent it’s laughable … and I do.

[Srecko Sostar]

4 hours ago, George88 said:

Only a very few recognize that Satan has directed the course and path of human culture and trends.

GB refers to the culture and trend of the business world and politicians, so it allowed the wearing of beards. GB is what the threat is. 

[Pudgy]

…

Harsh, but fair.

They did say specifically in Governing Body Update 2023-8 that the example they used for guidance was powerful and respected mens’ customs of the world.

( rolls eyes and facepalms forehead )

The only thing I can imagine is that at their weekly meeting on Wednesday sometime in December an Angel with a flaming sword appeared and “read them the riot act” … or their accountants told them they were bankrupt.

Or possibly some Multi-Billionaire with a Beard was recently baptized.

…. merely guesses.

The Warren Commission Report on the assassination of President John F. Kennedy was issued on September 24, 1964.

Before I die, I would like to read a non-fiction version.

[Pudgy]

…

 

[BTK59]

It appears that the only one playing games here is pudgy and his group of followers. Instead of evading discussions about your dishonest statements and diverting attention with nonsense, face the questions. The evidence indicates that a 10-year-old displays more spiritual maturity than an uneducated 76-year-old. Who granted these individuals the power to determine who possesses enough spiritual maturity to comprehend their oath before God, especially when someone who took that oath became apostate even before being dismissed for an egregious act against children?

Imagine defending someone accused of child sexual abuse while using a sock puppet to do so. It's like playing Whack-A-Mole with the truth, and the consequences are nothing short of insane.

[Pudgy]

… exactly the diversionary tactics I described in my posts … instead of just downvoting my posts … refute them!

…. give it a try  … you can use whatever Whack-A-Mole pop up screen name you want!  After two sentences everybody knows it’s YOU anyway!