Revelation Chapter One. Well I do say I don't understand scripture. Help please

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

I've just started reading Revelation. This time I'm trying to concentrate on every word. 

An old, wise, Elder once said to me, "Every thing in the Bible is there for a reson. It's not just to take up space". 

Revelation chapter One. v5 & 6

To him who loves us and who set us free from our sins by means of his own blood— ⁶  and he made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father—yes, to him be the glory and the might forever. Amen.

So this is to the Anointed ones.

v 7 & 8....  Look! He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, and those who pierced him; and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief because of him.  Yes, Amen.⁸  “I am the Alʹpha and the O·meʹga,” says Jehovah God, “the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty.”

Now this confuses me a bit. Verse 7 is talking about Jesus. It says He is coming with the clouds. 

But verse 8 is talking about GOD, and it says 'and who is coming'.    

So, are they both coming ? If so how ?

Also verse 8 says, “I am the Alʹpha and the O·meʹga,” says Jehovah God" which is fully understandable as Almighty God has always existed and always will. 

But verse 17 says, "And he laid his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last, 

And this is Jesus speaking 

So God is the Alpha and the Omega, and Jesus is the First and the Last.  This will need some explaining. 

I've said that i understand the bit about God, but I'm not sure about the bit concerning Jesus

Jesus was of course God's First creation.....   But in what way is Jesus the Last ? 

[xero]

Just wait 'till you hit Chapter 11 if you're confused.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

9 hours ago, xero said:

Just wait 'till you hit Chapter 11 if you're confused.

I have read Revelation many times. We 'studied' that Revelation book at least three times in the 'ye olde book study' of a Tuesday evening. But i think that book has been d/fed now .

I'm now trying to read the Greek Scriptures, word for word, not rushing through. I don't expect to understand much because I'm not Anointed, but reading scripture is relaxing and does help me to reason on life and living. 

[Matthew9969]

You would have to th8nk Jehovah was created.

[xero]

4 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

I have read Revelation many times. We 'studied' that Revelation book at least three times in the 'ye olde book study' of a Tuesday evening. But i think that book has been d/fed now .

I'm now trying to read the Greek Scriptures, word for word, not rushing through. I don't expect to understand much because I'm not Anointed, but reading scripture is relaxing and does help me to reason on life and living. 

I find the first parts, easy, but then other parts leave me confused. I've been reading others interpretations and these haven't been helpful either. This is what's led me to wonder if some things which we imagine have already occurred are yet to occur also whether some things which are thought to be symbolic may actually be literal. In the other interpretation there are preterists, who say it's all completed. (doesn't make sense to me).

I just don't know. The later parts are easy enough, Satan in the Abyss, 1000 yr reign, released, rebellion and final removal are also easy enough. (Though one would wonder why anyone would rebel again)

I wish I could be more confident, but I'm not. Of course this could just be my problem. Maybe I've deflected and haven't figured that out yet. I try hard to not pester other people with my obsessions, but when people act as if they have it all figured out, I just think "I don't know. Seems stretchy from here."

[Thinking]

8 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

I've just started reading Revelation. This time I'm trying to concentrate on every word. 

An old, wise, Elder once said to me, "Every thing in the Bible is there for a reson. It's not just to take up space". 

Revelation chapter One. v5 & 6

To him who loves us and who set us free from our sins by means of his own blood— ⁶  and he made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father—yes, to him be the glory and the might forever. Amen.

So this is to the Anointed ones.

v 7 & 8....  Look! He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, and those who pierced him; and all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in grief because of him.  Yes, Amen.⁸  “I am the Alʹpha and the O·meʹga,” says Jehovah God, “the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty.”

Now this confuses me a bit. Verse 7 is talking about Jesus. It says He is coming with the clouds. 

But verse 8 is talking about GOD, and it says 'and who is coming'.    

So, are they both coming ? If so how ?

Also verse 8 says, “I am the Alʹpha and the O·meʹga,” says Jehovah God" which is fully understandable as Almighty God has always existed and always will. 

But verse 17 says, "And he laid his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last, 

And this is Jesus speaking 

So God is the Alpha and the Omega, and Jesus is the First and the Last.  This will need some explaining. 

I've said that i understand the bit about God, but I'm not sure about the bit concerning Jesus

Jesus was of course God's First creation.....   But in what way is Jesus the Last ? 

I THINK..which doesn’t mean a lot...but hear goes..from what I’ve read..the Alpha and Omega can mean both Jesus and Jehovah...Jesus being the first creation of Jehovah and the last creation by him to be resurrected .

Its a title that they both can lay rightful ownership off...( obviously only after Jesus proved successful ) 

I have also come to the conclusion that no one can understand Revelation unless they really understand the Hebrew Scriptures ...the secrets or keys to understand revelation is in them.

 

[xero]

Thinking...what I often wonder is whether it's intentionally ambiguous to make us constantly try to solve the puzzle, and in trying we're forced into a spiritual pattern of reanalysis and humility as we realize how we know so much and yet so little and in knowing this we can see when people imagine themselves to be wiser than they actually are and for doing so not only realize this in ourselves but perhaps reconcile ourselves towards being a little less critical of the missteps of others as these have also tried and failed.

In the end those counted as meek aren't the ones who've solved all the puzzles.

[Witness]

11 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

So God is the Alpha and the Omega, and Jesus is the First and the Last.  This will need some explaining. 

You might find this recent comment by an anointed one helpful.

Both Jesus and the Father are referred to, as Alpha and Omega. Does this mean that they are the same person?

Nothing about Alpha or Omega, means 'the same nature'. That is not to say that God and Christ are not the same nature [they are both divine spirit, just as all sons of God become (2Pet.1:4)], but that similarity of nature, is not expressed in either "Alpha' or 'Omega'.

Neither do each of those words mean "uncreated, eternal, atemporal, or timeless".

We are told at John 1:1 that "In the beginning".

That of itself is speaking of a moment in time, a start... not eternity. That verse continues... "In the beginning, the Word/Logos, was."

We are told that the Word exists, "In the beginning" of God's creation

(John1:1; 1John1:1; Prov.8:22-31; Col.1:15-17; Rev.3:14).

Alpha and Omega simply mean, first and last.

Can two different identities be first and last, and remain two different identities?

Of course.

As a simple example, an only son is the first and last son.

If he marries and has an only son, that son is also, first and last. Yet they remain, two different people.

But how does this compare to the identity difference between God and Christ, while both of them are Alpha and Omega... First and Last?

The Bible tells us.

The Logos, was the first of all creation.

Jesus Christ is the FIRSTborn of the new creation (Rom.8:29; 2Cor.5:17).

But that NEW creation, finally allows God to enter His Sabbath Rest permanently, and able to declare with finality, all things Good. He made that declaration at the end of the physical creation (Gen.1:31; 2:2), but it did not last (Gen.6:5-6; Rom.8:20-22; John5:17; Heb.4:9-11).

The start/FIRSTborn of that NEW, incorruptible creation, is the resurrection of Christ... the LAST Adam (1Cor.15:45) because from him (the "eternal father" -Isa.9:6) all others receive life. He is the Alpha (FIRSTborn born of the New Creation) and Omega (LAST Adam/man, needing to be created) of the New Creation, because all those after him, come from him.

"So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"; the *last Adam, a life-giving spirit."*

Does this mean that when God declares Himself Alpha and Omega, that he is saying that He is Jesus Christ?

No, because God tells us what He means, by being the first and the last...

Isa.43: "10 “You are My witnesses,” says the Lord,

“And My servant whom I have chosen,

That you may know and believe Me,

And understand that I am He.

***Before Me there was no God formed,

Nor shall there be after Me."***

So, Is God the *first Almighty God?

Is He the *last Almighty God to ever be?

Can any other god be compared to him, or be equal to him in likeness, including His eternal sovereignty?

(Phil.2:7; Isa.40:18,25,28; 43:13; Ps.93:2).

How then, would He come to be in the likeness of men?

He did not. The Logos/Jesus, did.

No creation, compares to the eternally unchanging Father of Jesus Christ.

So, two different persons can share being first and last, but that does not mean that they are first and last in the same regard, or to the same degree, or must be the same person.

Both Jesus and God can be described as an Alpha and Omega;

but that does not mean that they are the same person, or first and last in the same way.

Yes, the Logos emptied himself, became a human, and even died.

Major changes.

Yet God never changes (Ps.90:2; 102:24,27; Mal.3:6; James1:17; Gen.21:33; Job.36:26; Jer.10:10; Hab.1:12)

If He is indeed the peerless God, from everlasting, to everlasting (Ps.90:2)... then He has never died.

 

 

 

 

[Thinking]

6 hours ago, xero said:

Thinking...what I often wonder is whether it's intentionally ambiguous to make us constantly try to solve the puzzle, and in trying we're forced into a spiritual pattern of reanalysis and humility as we realize how we know so much and yet so little and in knowing this we can see when people imagine themselves to be wiser than they actually are and for doing so not only realize this in ourselves but perhaps reconcile ourselves towards being a little less critical of the missteps of others as these have also tried and failed.

In the end those counted as meek aren't the ones who've solved all the puzzles.

Your exactly right brother....I often think as you just articulated..we know so much but really so little....Jehovah loves a seeker..a searcher of the scriptures...but that doesn’t mean the reward will be any different than one that’s is not quiet so interested in scriptures ..but has bowed their knee to their God Jehovah.

The things we may grasp a little earlier can be a stumbling stone..as Jesus was with the Pharisees...or it can develop in us a much admired and treasured thing...that is highly favoured by Jehovah...humility and grace in remembering where we came from..( I was sort of a heathen from the world ) I owe my life because of the witnessing work..organised by the then GB

I liken us as the same as the Israelites that were cornered at the Red Sea...Pharaoh bearing down and the mountains on one side the sea in the front ...

So where is this God Jehovah they all submitted to...nothing is turning out as promised...let’s stone Moses and Aaron in our fear or disappointment...

( and NO I do not liken Moses to the GB) 

BUT..ones perhaps with a little more faith..or insight ...bore up..and did not panic..or push ahead...now THAT is the type of faith he loves....mind you they were probably wetting themselves in fear whilst waiting for him to act.

We know so very little..even when we  say we know a lot!..( or think it) and besides....I remember where I came from🙂 I’m not sure if it is intentional as you think..perhaps it is...but it’s very important as to how we act with insights we may THINK we have....it’s there for all to search for.......but we often have to search so hard....we have to use the lamp..and bend our back...possibly in a uncomfortable position for a long time to find that spiritual gem or insight.

But how we handle that gem.  Shows our true personality...

[liz]

Jesus was the last in the sense that he was resurrected by God himself ,and as for verse 8 where it says God is coming as such with an expression of his all-powerfulness .look in the insight book volume 1 under almighty .hope this helps

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

21 hours ago, xero said:

I find the first parts, easy, but then other parts leave me confused. I've been reading others interpretations and these haven't been helpful either. This is what's led me to wonder if some things which we imagine have already occurred are yet to occur also whether some things which are thought to be symbolic may actually be literal. In the other interpretation there are preterists, who say it's all completed. (doesn't make sense to me).

But the GB don't understand it and cannot interpret it either. So who do You think should understand it ?

For my part I'm waiting on a True Anointed that God, through Christ, will guide with Holy Spirit to understand it and to give instruction from it. After all it was written by Holy Spirit, so it's sort of like in code. And it needs the Holy Spirit to decipher the code. 

I'm hoping to buy the Berean Study Bible next month when it is released. but I'm not expecting to understand it much better  .. 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

19 hours ago, xero said:

and in knowing this we can see when people imagine themselves to be wiser than they actually are

YES INDEED.  And therefore why were JWs made to study the Revelation book THREE TIMES. 

Repetition for emphasis, and then for the book to be removed and discarded. 

So who were these people that were imagining themselves to be wiser than they were / are ? 

The GB / Watchtower / JW Org.