Jehovahs witnesses and higher education

[Srecko Sostar]

5 hours ago, b4ucuhear said:

??? I'm not sure I understand your reasoning,

I just want to point out how, life is a sort of risk. Events that took place in Eden Garden (and in Heaven Realm with angels) show us how many things can go wrong when you are alive.

People who do not live (do not exist), or are dead, are not at risk and not causing any risk, (only health risk if they are not properly buried or burnt).  Perhaps corps are not risk for vultures. (black humor)

But want to show how facing "risks" is "normal" thing. You are at risk even in your congregation meetings. You can fall in love with person you should not to fall. Or somebody can be in "crush" with you. You are at risk to follow human interpretations of God's words!!! Children are at risk to be victims too. We have literal and spiritual risk that took place in congregation. And you have to deal with them. In that way, you are at risk where ever you go. Bible verses can give you good advice or warning, but they will not save you from every risk. If you are in a place, you believed is the safest place on Earth, than you are at risk ..... Bible shows this too :)) 

 

[b4ucuhear]

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

But want to show how facing "risks" is "normal" thing.

Fair enough and I agree with you on that. There is always a risk - even when we try to do the right thing, pray, follow scriptural principles, avoid bad areas... I'm sure you would also agree though, that some actions are riskier than others. i.e. jumping off a cliff is riskier than jumping off a curb - (unless you are jumping off the curb into traffic)  For instance, if you know an area of your city is known to have a high crime rate - especially at night, you might feel it prudent to avoid that area when you have a choice. True you may not be attacked, but the chances of that happening to you are significantly greater if you expose yourself to that environment. Not to flog this... (OK yes, I am flogging it ) One more example. You might not get cancer from smoking cigarettes, but the evidence shows your chances are greater of getting it. And in fact, even if you felt you were willing to take the chance yourself, would you be willing to set that example for your kids by smoking at home? They would see your example and possibly feel it's fine to follow your example, in turn putting them at greater risk of both addiction and cancer. That's the point I was clumsily trying to make. Personally, per se, I am not a dogmatic "opposer" of higher learning such that I would take it upon myself to punish others for choosing that option. But I would also candidly admit from real-life examples I have seen, that it poses a higher risk to spiritual objectives than other grades of schooling (which of course, as I recognize, can come with their own risks.) 

[Matthew9969]

11 hours ago, b4ucuhear said:

 

Are you volunteering as a poster boy for the need for higher education?  

Typing on a tablet is difficult sometimes....but I'm sure my education surpasses your 4 year awake and watchtower education:)

[Srecko Sostar]

2 hours ago, b4ucuhear said:

Personally, per se, I am not a dogmatic "opposer" of higher learning

Thanks for respond and for your understanding. 

I would like to add also this about WT Society "warnings" and strong recommendations through publications and public talks about "higher education".

We have young people who going to High school of some sort. WT Society not giving explicit "warnings" about this level of education. Perhaps because WT think how young "worldly" people of that age are not big "risk" for young JW members. :))

Also, we have young people who going to Universities and similar educational level. But WT consider how young "worldly" people of that age is very "dangerous" and are big "risk" for young JW members. :))

But, have in mind also this. Many of this young "worldly" people from both level of educations ended....where?? At some working place, on some job. And now we have big surprise. Where young and not young JW members working, on what working place, on what job? At same place with all those "worldly" people who JW members try to avoid when were younger, when were in similar/same age. And now they are all together ....despite all efforts JW members done in previous years. Some JW member working at place as janitor and his school colleague (known or unknown)  is Principal or Manager or Boss who giving him orders what and how to do something. JW members avoid to be with him at University but spend with him cca 8 hours a day in same Firm. Well, what is so special to be benefit of that?   

To be in Line, to be Consistent  in "warnings and advice" about issue how to avoid this sorts of "risk" to be near "worldly" people,  WT Society should have to warn JW people not to looking for "secular" job because it is big "risk" to put yourself in such a godless society/environment. 

Bible shows how old and young can be caught in same sort of "trap".

:))

[b4ucuhear]

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

To be in Line, to be Consistent  in "warnings and advice" about issue how to avoid this sorts of "risk" to be near "worldly" people,  WT Society should have to warn JW people not to looking for "secular" job because it is big "risk" to put yourself in such a godless society/environment. 

John 17:14-16 The comments in the study Bible on John 17:15 say: "Jehovah...could even separate his people physically from the rest of the world and place them in a a safe and peaceful environment. However, regarding his disciples, Jesus prayed to his heavenly Father: "I request you, not to take them out of the world, but to watch over them because of the wicked one." Jehovah has chosen not to take us "out of the world." Rather, it is his will that we live among the general population of this world in order to proclaim his message of hope and comfort to others. (Rom. 10:13-15) But, as Jesus implied in his prayer, by living in this world, we are exposed to "the wicked one." Disobedient mankind and wicked spirit forces cause much pain and anguish, and Christians are not immune to distress." 1 Peter 5:9

So while we recognize we have to live in a world under Satan's control, it doesn't mean we should go out of our way to expose ourselves to potentially dangerous influences and bad association. There are of course necessary things we must do to survive and provide for our families - such as employment, which as you correctly pointed out, can mean rubbing shoulders with worldly people and attitudes whatever level of education we choose. But even on that, we are selective so as to minimize our exposure to potentially harmful influences. It may include being selective as to what type of work we are willing to accept, or whom we work with/for. Many caring parents know they can't completely eliminate bad influences at school for instance (since kids have to have some type of schooling and it is beneficial), but they may choose to be selective as to whom they allow their kids to spend their extra time with. So living in the world, we recognize there are certain things we must do whether we like it or not. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't exercise caution and be selective as to what we choose to involve ourselves in. I could rationalize that I need a job to support myself and my family - a legitimate and necessary need,  but would I choose to work for the mafia to do so? No, I would be selective and cautious. 

6 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

Typing on a tablet is difficult sometimes....but I'm sure my education surpasses your 4 year awake and watchtower education:)

I agree with you. I often have the same problem on both phone and tablet. Fortunately I've recently discovered that we can edit and make corrections. I wish I had known that earlier before "auto-correct" ran roughshod over my posts. 

As for my level of education, I provide as little information as possible to identify me. As a "whistleblower" on some things, there would be an opportunity for "blowback" from men in authority who have something to hide. I don't even post what country I'm from. So when I have written that at times there are men in authority who act as wickedly as people in the world and hide behind their authority, I know exactly what I'm talking about. That's why I don't buy into the "Jesus is in full control of everything..." stuff, because I know some of the stuff that goes on is about as unChristlike as you can get. He doesn't cause/control it just because he allows it for a time. I also question some of the decisions men (not Jesus) have made when I am in possession of all the facts - especially when removal or disfellowshipping has as it's objective to silence whistleblowers who expose their corruption. I have never been DF'd, but I know if they thought I was spilling the beens on them, that's exactly what would happen. So I don't mention any names either that would tip them off. Just letting people know that you can still maintain your faith and relationship with God despite the evil that (some) men do - and get away with for now. 

Sorry if this rant is off topic.

[Witness]

5 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

 

We have young people who going to High school of some sort. WT Society not giving explicit "warnings" about this level of education. Perhaps because WT think how young "worldly" people of that age are not big "risk" for young JW members. :))

Also, we have young people who going to Universities and similar educational level. But WT consider how young "worldly" people of that age is very "dangerous" and are big "risk" for young JW members. :))

But, have in mind also this. Many of this young "worldly" people from both level of educations ended....where?? At some working place, on some job. And now we have big surprise. Where young and not young JW members working, on what working place, on what job? At same place with all those "worldly" people who JW members try to avoid when were younger, when were in similar/same age. And now they are all together ....despite all efforts JW members done in previous years. Some JW member working at place as janitor and his school colleague (known or unknown)  is Principal or Manager or Boss who giving him orders what and how to do something. JW members avoid to be with him at University but spend with him cca 8 hours a day in same Firm. Well, what is so special to be benefit of that?   

To be in Line, to be Consistent  in "warnings and advice" about issue how to avoid this sorts of "risk" to be near "worldly" people,  WT Society should have to warn JW people not to looking for "secular" job because it is big "risk" to put yourself in such a godless society/environment. 

Bible shows how old and young can be caught in same sort of "trap".

:))

Just as the WT knows how to work the global market by investing their money in hedge funds, they know how to manipulate a developing mind with persuasion techniques.  I perceive the downplay of higher education as a safeguard from losing members.  While the organization warns these young ones of Satan’s worldly traps when pursuing higher education, in reality it appears to me that it’s all about keeping JWs captive to the organization’s “empty philosophy”.  Col 2:8  Knowing how the young mind develops sheds light on the org's use of persistent warnings not to pursue higher education. 

“Developmental Tasks and Attributes of Late Adolescence/Young Adulthood (Ages 18-24 years)

http://www.amchp.org/programsandtopics/AdolescentHealth/projects/Documents/SAHRC AYADevelopment LateAdolescentYoungAdulthood.pdf

This is a time of life when very little is normative. It is a period of frequent change

and exploration that covers many aspects of their life: home, family, work, school,

resources, and role.

Develop and apply abstract thinking skills

Adolescents experience significant changes in

their capacity to think. In changing from

concrete to abstract thought they are

increasingly able to understand and grapple

with abstract ideas, think about possibilities,

think ahead, think about thinking, and “put

themselves in another person’s shoes.”

In general, this changes their ability to think

about themselves, others and the world

around them.

This is a gradual process that spans

adolescence and young adulthood. For

example, early in the process youth are

limited in their ability to hold more than one

point of view – understanding something

from one perspective but not another.

·        Capacity for abstract thought becomes

established; can think abstractly and

hypothetically; can discern the underlying

principles and apply them to new

situations; and can think about the future,

considering many possibilities and logical

outcomes of possible events.

·       Able to hold and manipulate clusters of

abstract ideas and create systems for

organizing abstract thoughts.

·       Greater ability to consider different points

of view at the same time can result in

increased empathy and concern for others,

and new interest in societal issues for many.

It also allows youth to better value the

diversity of people (and their perspectives)

and appreciate that there may be many

right answers to a problem.

Adopt A Personal Value System

Adolescents develop a more complex

understanding of moral behavior and

underlying principles of justice. They question

and assess beliefs from childhood and

restructure these beliefs into a personal

ideology (e.g. more personally meaningful

values, religious views, and belief systems to

guide decisions and behavior).

·        Decisions and values are less influenced by

peers.

·       Able to see multiple viewpoints, value the

diversity of people and perspectives and

appreciate that there can be many right

answers to a problem.

·        Identify values and viewpoints that work for

oneself while respecting viewpoints/values

of others

I would imagine there is a high risk of young JWs entering a college or university after high school, with the same age group, and going through the same mental development stages ...leaving the Watchtower altogether.  

[Srecko Sostar]

11 hours ago, b4ucuhear said:

... we are selective so as to minimize our exposure to potentially harmful influences.

Absolutely agree. But what I see as it is possible to read in WT Society text about Higher education is this: They tend to separate young minds from "secular knowledge" because of some fears. Perhaps one of fear is not main reason, to be learned about non-Bible ideas. But as main reason i see how this "secular ideas" can cause that young JW members begin to question WT and Bible. 

Please have in mind what you already said, JHVH not decided to separate Congregation, but He doing just opposite. He let all sort of influence to be spread on  people, all people, not just JW's. If JHVH not made separation in literal way, than WT try to do this separation in limited level on limited class of people for limited time in their life - looks funny and not productive as they expect. 

12 hours ago, b4ucuhear said:

I could rationalize that I need a job to support myself and my family - a legitimate and necessary need,  but would I choose to work for the mafia to do so? No, I would be selective and cautious. 

This was completely necessary to be said ... using this sort of illustration with mafia as subject :)))))

........... but you "provoked" me a little :)))) and i will add. We all working for devil the boss, because he is ruler, god of this world, global company/corporation. Just another, different way of rationalization.   :))))))