Should true Christians use the word "Disaster"?

[Witness]

2 hours ago, Arauna said:

But it is nice to know that a wide variety of 'Hebrew' manuscripts has the point system included and it is more accurate in Hebrew to say : yehovah.

 

2 hours ago, Arauna said:

Sometimes to just have scholarly opinions blinds one to the true spirit of a matter - especially when one should allow Jehovah's spirit to work within you. 

Even though the name YHWH is etymologically difficult to explain, to a Hebrew audience it may have looked very much like He Who Causes "That Which Is" To Be.

https://www.abarim-publications.com/Meaning/YHWH.html#.XpWcl8hKg2w

Before the hybridization of the tetragrammaton, the Jews used the word, “Adonai”, which is“Lord” in translation.  Literally, it means, “My foundation”. 

“Jehovah” - Artificial hybrid of the names YHWH and Adonai. – Latin mixed with Hebrew, and you believe this is through the power of Holy Spirit that “Jehovah” was born?  It’s like a Hebrew slang word with a meaning that is totally the opposite of “He who causes that which is to be”; which is, “a ruin, a disaster”. 

 

It is true that the majority of JWs believe “Jehovah” is the sacred name of God. It is a like a talisman, and I remember using it myself, believing it had some sort of magical power to save me from harm.  What amazes me now, is the ignorance in believing that Satan had nothing to do with changing the sacred use of His name. 

Abarim publications quoted a scripture that should show anyone who cares, just how sacred God’s name is:

Judges 13:  Then Manoah said to the Angel of the Lord, “Please let us detain You, and we will prepare a young goat for You.”

¹⁶ And the Angel of the Lord said to Manoah, “Though you detain Me, I will not eat your food. But if you offer a burnt offering, you must offer it to the Lord.” (For Manoah did not know He was the Angel of the Lord.)

¹⁷ Then Manoah said to the Angel of the Lord, “What is Your name, that when Your words come to pass we may honor You?”

¹⁸ And the Angel of the Lord said to him, “Why do you ask My name, seeing it is wonderful?”

“wonderful” – wonderful, incomprehensible, extraordinary

פִּלְאִי pilʼîy, pil-ee'; or פָּלִיא pâlîyʼ; from H6381; remarkable:—secret, wonderful.

Since Jesus was the spokesperson for God, (as the Logos), this most likely was him who visited Manoah and his wife.  If his name in heaven was “incomprehensible”, wouldn't God's name be even moreso?

⁹ In this manner, therefore, pray:

Our Father in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.  Matt 6:9

“Hallowed” - ἁγιάζω hagiázō, hag-ee-ad'-zo; from G40; to make holy, i.e. (ceremonially) purify or consecrate; (mentally) to venerate:—hallow, be holy, sanctify.

 

I’m sorry, but the name “Jehovah” does not venerate the Almighty God.  

 

 

 

 

[JW Insider]

2 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

One "catholic" translation of Bible came in 1969 (this was first Bible translation in communist ex-Yugoslavia), and this translation have god's name in form "Jahve"

I read that the the Catholic "Jerusalem" Bible and later the Catholic "New Jerusalem" Bible, were going to use Jahve, thinking it was possibly more accurate and more consistent with how other Hebrew names were translated, but they decided to stick with Yahweh because it was better known. Similar reasoning with the NWT translators in sticking with Jehovah.

[TrueTomHarley]

I’ve heard the argument that God deliberately kept his name obscured so that its true pronunciation would not be sullied by so many profane tongues. Not sure I buy that argument, but neither is it stupid.

[Arauna]

12 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

heard the argument that God deliberately kept

It is just an incorrect assumption........ Jesus taught us to pray for His name to be sanctified (by all people in future). This implies that jehovah knows his name is not sanctified by all people at present. 

It would be unloving of jehovah to give us his name and allow his son to teach us the name,  just so he actually wants us to hide it.

The wicked are amongst us and they do not respect anything holy.  Jehovah hope's that they change but each one will pay for their own error.  

The nations shall know I am Jehovah....in Ezekiel... what about the scripture which indicates that jehovah will remove the shame from his name.  This indicates it takes place in this present system.

Joel 2:  26 You will surely eat to satisfaction,And you will praise the name of Jehovah your God,Who has done wonders in your behalf; My people will never again be put to shame.  27 And you will have to know that I am in the midst of Israel And that I am Jehovah your God—there is no other! My people will never again be put to shame. 

 

[JW Insider]

33 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I’ve heard the argument that God deliberately kept his name obscured

I've also heard it argued that it showed the greatest example of humility by Jehovah to allow his name to go into obscurity to allow his Son's name to be placed above every other name.

But I don't really buy it. It was through human superstition, not Jehovah's laws, that the name was obscured. The Bible certainly didn't obscure it. It's the most common, proper name in the Bible.

[Srecko Sostar]

2 hours ago, Witness said:

It is true that the majority of JWs believe “Jehovah” is the sacred name of God. It is a like a talisman, and I remember using it myself, believing it had some sort of magical power to save me from harm.  What amazes me now, is the ignorance in believing that Satan had nothing to do with changing the sacred use of His name.

Yes, i am also pretty sure how believers, of all kind, and here JW's particularly was and/or will find themselves in difficult situations ........ when invoking the name of God becomes the only, last hope, and when it becomes the only, final way to feel protected.

 

[Witness]

4 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I've also heard it argued that it showed the greatest example of humility by Jehovah to allow his name to go into obscurity to allow his Son's name to be placed above every other name.

But I don't really buy it. It was through human superstition, not Jehovah's laws, that the name was obscured. The Bible certainly didn't obscure it. It's the most common, proper name in the Bible.

I have never heard that it was an example of humility, but rather glorifying Jesus was in essence, glorifying God.  And, I don't remember God ever calling himself "Jehovah" in the Bible   

 Jesus is

“‘the stone you builders rejected,
    which has become the cornerstone.’

¹² Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”  Acts 4:11,12 

 

Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
    and gave him the name that is above every name,
¹⁰ that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
    in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
¹¹ and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
    to the glory of God the Father.  Phil 2:2-11

 

Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. ²⁵ For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. ²⁶ The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. ²⁸ When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.  1 Cor 15:24-28

 

¹⁰ Then I fell at his feet to worship him, but he said to me, “Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers and sisters who hold firmly to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God, because the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”  Rev 19:10

JWs appear to hold firm to the testimony of "Jehovah".  

 

 

 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

2 hours ago, Witness said:

JWs appear to hold firm to the testimony of "Jehovah". 

OT speaking about giving testimony or about be witness for JHVH according to Isaiah. But NT speaking about bearing witness to Jesus. It seems how WTJWorg chooses OT model instead NT.

[Witness]

8 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

OT speaking about giving testimony or about be witness for JHVH according to Isaiah. But NT speaking about bearing witness to Jesus. It seems how WTJWorg chooses OT model instead NT.

I believe they certainly suffer an imbalance.  I feel that to be a true witness to truth requires being a witness not only for God, but also for Jesus, who is truth. (John 14:6; 17:17)   The Old Testament prophets were God’s witnesses who bore testimony also of Jesus Christ, by speaking God’s word about him.  Rev 19:10; (Jer 5:14) We know Jesus is God’s “faithful and true witness” (Rev 1:5; 3:14) to truth, and those priests/members of his Body are also to be God’s “witnesses” to truth.

“You are my witnesses”—
this is the Lord’s declaration—
“and my servant whom I have chosen,
so that you may know and believe me
and understand that I am he.
No god was formed before me,
and there will be none after me.”  Isa 43:10

The people I formed for myself
will declare my praise.  Isa 43:21

“But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his possession, so that you may proclaim the praises of the one who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.”  1 Pet 2:9

 

So again, I feel being a “witness” of God requires giving “testimony of Jesus” – to his words of TRUTH. Adding to his words nullifies in one's mind, not only truth, but Christ’s witness and testimony.  It also nullifies that person becoming or existing as a faithful and true “witness” of God.  It is sad to see this in the organization, where truth has no foothold, since falsehoods have been taught to thousands over the years. (how do they dismiss affecting so many lives, so easily? how can those leaders sleep, knowing that they taught people to live a lie?)  

Truth from Christ is sterling, not corroded in any way; not needing a polishing up to make it acceptable.  John 6:27; Rev 3:18

Since Jesus and the Father are one, a true priest/“witness” would be one in truth with them.  To his disciples:

“Whoever listens to you listens to me. Whoever rejects you rejects me. And whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me.” Luke 10:16

 ^“All things havebeen entrusted to me by my Father. No one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son desires to reveal him.” Luke 10:22

Jesus told him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.  John 14:6

JWs will disagree, but Jesus is subtly rejected in the organization, so the concerted effort is on “Jehovah”. This is how JWs have learned from their leaders, to “witness”.  Yet, who can know the Father except for those who approach Christ?  Is that even possible for JWs?

Absolutely not. Wt 20/4/pp 20-25

“The second challenge is that we are not able to speak to Jesus. When we pray, we direct our thoughts to Jehovah. True, we do pray in Jesus’ name, but we do not talk directly to him. In fact, Jesus does not want us to pray to him. Why not? Because prayer is a form of worship, and only Jehovah should be worshipped. (Matt. 4:10) Even so, we can express our love for Jesus.

There we go.  One scripture that is to prove we cannot speak to Jesus; even though in that one scripture, Jesus was talking to Satan, telling HIM to worship the Father only.   No man, no person, was in the conversation.  It had to do with the war that began between them in Genesis 3:15.  So, from one scripture they say Jesus does not want us to pray to him.  Incredible!  

Jesus is totally cut out of the life of JWs; and the anointed members of his body who are silenced, have been cut off from their Head.  Their restriction from speaking with Jesus shows lawlessness is active and causing spiritual 'disaster' in the organization. 2 Thess 2:9-12  It is not much different than the Pharisees rejecting Christ, only this time, Wt’s leaders preach “another Jesus”.  2 Cor 11:4

 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! You lock up the kingdom of heaven from people. For you don’t go in, and you don’t allow those entering to go in.”

  “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to make one proselyte, and when he becomes one, you make him twice the son of Gehenna as you are!”   Matt 23:13-15

How can JWs understand what it means to give a testimony of Jesus Christ, when they have no relationship with him?  And who doesn't want us to have a relationship with Christ?  It is the same powerful individual that wants us to bow down and worship him, instead of God and Christ.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, Witness said:

JWs will disagree, but Jesus is subtly rejected in the organization, so the concerted effort is on “Jehovah”.

Yes, very interesting subject. We have to remind us how first Christians, or Jesus' followers, Jesus' disciples, put their life, didn't want to reject their faith in Jesus, because of Jesus, and not because of JHVH.  

First followers (not JHVH's followers but Jesus' followers) gave their lives because they did not want to deny their faith in Jesus. They did not want to give up the name of Jesus. The name JHVH was not  the name they want to defend and protect. 

The name Jesus brings some controversy. Interestingly and contrary of what we generally might think and what we perhaps didn't say clearly enough with right wording, but: followers of JHVH name persecuted people who been followers of Jesus name. This giving specific dimension to issue and contribute  to your reasoning and explanation about modern scene and how JHVH Organization operate in the Name of God (FDS, anointed individuals etc). 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

@Witness & @Srecko Sostar  you have both got me thinking on this now. 

It is very interesting and it will get me re-reading the Greek Scriptures once again but from a different viewpoint. 

However the NWT is what I've been using and now I'm thinking I need a different translation of God's Word. 

The NWT does alter words to suit there own agenda, so a comparison would be nice, but in hard copy. 

I know lots are available to read online but It would be great to get away from this screen and maybe read in the garden. 

 

 

[Anna]

On 4/14/2020 at 7:57 AM, Witness said:

I’m sorry, but the name “Jehovah” does not venerate the Almighty God.  

Says Witness, so you better listen to her!