Christian Denominations Chart - Starting w/ the Commentary on JW's

[John 12.24to28]

 

The new covenant is not the same as the cleansing of all mankind by means of the ransom. Anyone who wants can benefit from the ransom blood by means of faith in the Christ and obeying him. A person does not need to be in the new covenant in order to benefit from the ransom.

 

In ancient times under the Mosaic Law, the priests had to be installed before the other sacrifices could be made for the people.

 

There were many sacrifices made during the time the priesthood was being installed. Later, those priests were used to make the animal sacrifices apply for the others in the nation.

 

Jesus is the sacrifice for all of us. But not all of us have to be "installed as priests". The new covenant is just like the installation part. All the sacrifices under the law pointed to Jesus, so his blood ransoms all of us. But the specific new covenant contract is to convert the 144,000 into a new creation so they can fill that role as priests. They have to be spirit creatures in order to be priests.

 

Jesus is a ransom for all mankind, not just the 144,000. Jesus is the redeemer for all mankind. His blood is necessary to cleanse all mankind. The new covenant is part of the process Jehovah will use to carry out the application of the blessings, but it doesn't mean the 144,000 are "the way to Christ" or "the way to God". They aren't. Jesus is the high priest, the second Adam, the Way, the Amen, the only ransom blood, the Lamb.

 

Someone anointed to be one of the 144,000 can share certain insights on what Jehovah's holy spirit reveals as far as understanding certain scriptures when it is Jehovah's time to reveal them, but none of them should be "followed" or treated any different from any other person. Any correct understanding they have isn't from their own merit. If they are right on something, it's only because Jehovah used them as a messenger, and He can use the dirt, so it's no reason to be overly exalted or anything.

[Srecko Sostar]

30 minutes ago, Arauna said:

use your imagination in this case - is that any contract needs two parties.  I one receives Holy spirit by Jehovah to become and anointed, one has to partake of the emblems to close the contract. Then it is a two-sided contract and not just from one side.

Taking the symbol of bread and wine is a JW practice once a year. From your interpretation, it means that they reaffirm the same contract every year. That's a little funny.

32 minutes ago, Arauna said:

Similarly - Jesus died for all humans who ever lived - but if one does not use the ransom to get sins forgiven or do not believe in it - you are not in this arrangement.

How will the dead benefit from the ransom? The dead cannot make decisions. So Jesus needs to resurrect them in order for them to become alive and then make a decision. But this (resurrection) means that the ransom was already applied to them by the very act of resurrection, because all sin is paid for by death already. Ransom is an act of mercy, not of conditioning.

 If the resurrected do not want to accept GB theology then what will become of them?

[Arauna]

2 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Taking the symbol of bread and wine is a JW practice once a year.

Jesus said you must do it in remembrance of him every year (when you are accepting your part of the contract and your life is reflecting a life of sacrifice like Jesus). If you are not in the contract you do not partake.  What is so simple to understand about that?

[Arauna]

1 minute ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:

Jehovah's organization, no one pays homage to the Elders or the anointed.

Well - we are taught not to but some still do..... which is a human fault for those who do not understand.  One person told me: we have an anointed in our congregation , would you like to know who it is?   I said no -because I like to treat all the same. 

[Srecko Sostar]

7 minutes ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:

Is it just a JW practice every year?

1 Corinthians 11:24 New International Version

24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.”

Can you disprove Jesus words were just meant for that night?

Why would Jesus follow up with "do this in remembrance of me" if they had already gone through the last supper?

How many times a year do you or another JW think/meditate about Jesus' ransom?

[Srecko Sostar]

1 minute ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:

I'm beginning to think you have no theology. Can you refute Revelation?

Revelation 20:12 New International Version

12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.

We have two kinds of dead in biblical theology, as I remember. Those who are buried in cemeteries or otherwise. And there are those who are biologically alive, but are considered spiritually dead (by religious leaders and their followers, or by god).

[Arauna]

15 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

How many times a year do you or another JW think/meditate about Jesus' ransom?

When we read the bible we think about it.

[John 12.24to28]

15 hours ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:

In Jehovah's organization, no one pays homage to the Elders or the anointed. People who are not familiar with the situation tend to have a different perspective. Now, if you want to refute scripture in Hebrews 13:17, then please submit your proof.

 

Here is confirmation from the scripture in Hebrews 13:17 showing why the GB should not be worshipped...

 

"Obey your leaders and defer to them, for they are on the alert night and day in behalf of your souls, expecting to have to account for them; in order that they may do that with gladness, not with groans, for this would not pay you."

 

(Hebrews 13:17, Byington)

 

"Be yielding unto them who are guiding you and submit yourselves; For they are watching over your souls as having an account to render, That with joy the same they may be doing and not with sighing,—For unprofitable unto you were this."

 

(Hebrews 13:17, Rotherham)

 

"Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you and be submissive, for they are keeping watch over you as those who will render an account, so that they may do this with joy and not with sighing, for this would be damaging to you."

 

(Hebrews 13:17, NWT)

 

"Be responsive to your pastoral leaders. Listen to their counsel. They are alert to the condition of your lives and work under the strict supervision of God. Contribute to the joy of their leadership, not its drudgery. Why would you want to make things harder for them?"

 

(Hebrews 13:17, The Message Bible)

 

There is a difference between a "leader" in the Christian congregation and a "stranger" in the Christian congregation.

 

The above verses qualify what a "leader" looks like: 

 

(1) "Alert night and day in behalf of your souls"

(2) "Guiding you"

(3) "Taking the lead among you"

(4) "Pastoral leaders" who give "counsel" and are "alert to the condition of your lives and work under the strict supervision of God."

 

Can a group of men who live far far away from the local congregation truly be alert night and day in behalf of our souls? Is it possible for a shepherd to keep watch over the local flock if he is living in another state or another country? It is not possible. A true "leader" according to this verse is one who personally knows the sheep and who personally stays awake to guard the soul of that sheep and who is among the sheep on a regular basis. The men at Bethel are not "leaders" they are "strangers". Just because their face is on the video screen doesn't mean they know us. They are strangers to us.

 

"...the one who enters through the door is the shepherd of the sheep.  The doorkeeper opens to this one, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.  When he has brought all his own out, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him, because they know his voice.  They will by no means follow a stranger but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers."

 

(John 10:2-5)

 

If a man doesn't know each sheep by name, then he is not the leader of that sheep, he is a stranger. Jesus said to Not Listen to Strangers.

 

Do the members of the governing body know you by name? Do the people at the branch? In the service department? Not just a name on a piece of paper or a computer screen, but by name as in they know you, they keep awake to guard your soul and consider you part of their assignment, interacting with you personally on a regular basis? Not likely. It is not possible for an imperfect man who is living that far away from a congregation to take care of the sheep in that way. It's the local brothers if they shepherd properly, not the GB, who are to be obeyed in the sense of this verse.

 

The local brothers who know the flock should have the flexibility to use their Bible trained consciences and good judgment to help the local sheep. The local shepherds should not be hamstrung by having to adhere to made up stuff coming down from headquarters people who have no clue what is going on locally. 

 

Can a man run his family from overseas? Will his family function well that way? Those men in Bethel have no business making themselves out to be "leaders" from so far away. That's not the way Jesus set things up.

 

The GB/Bethel has become the clergy class of the organization. They are paid. (How much does your room and board and insurance and medical care cost you? How much does it cost them?) They dictate manmade doctrines and enforce them with a ban against anyone who doesn't bow down. That is not what is supposed to happen according to Hebrews 13:17.

 

Sheep will obey a real shepherd. The real shepherds get punished by the GB when they follow the example of the Christ and use thinking ability rather than flowcharts/elder manual. Jesus is coming to remedy the situation soon. Thank God.

 

[John 12.24to28]

16 hours ago, Arauna said:

What she is saying - use your imagination in this case - is that any contract needs two parties.  I one receives Holy spirit by Jehovah to become and anointed, one has to partake of the emblems to close the contract. Then it is a two-sided contract and not just from one side.

 

No, that's not what I'm saying.🙂 Close but not quite.

 

16 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Taking the symbol of bread and wine is a JW practice once a year. From your interpretation, it means that they reaffirm the same contract every year. That's a little funny.

 

@Srecko Sostar is right, that's a little funny. 

 

Partaking of the emblems has nothing to do with closing the contract. The contract was "closed" or "confirmed" or "signed" when Jehovah accepted the value of Jesus' sacrifice. The partaking of the emblems by anointed ones is just a symbol, a way they can show obedience, but even if an anointed one never in their life had access to bread and wine to celebrate the Memorial, that covenant would still be in place because it was put in place by Jehovah a long time ago. 

 

The Bible shows each individual member of the 144,000 has to remain faithful to the finish of their life course on earth in order to realize the application of the new covenant. Being obedient to Jesus' command to partake of the emblems once a year is one small part of being faithful, but the majority of the course of faithfulness is a lot more difficult than merely taking a bite of bread and a sip of wine, just as the course is difficult for all of Christ's followers regardless of whether they are anointed or not.

 

"Always we endure in our body the death-dealing treatment that Jesus suffered, that the life of Jesus may also be made manifest in our body."

 

(2 Corinthians 4:10)

 

"I am now rejoicing in my sufferings for your sake, and I am undergoing the tribulations of the Christ that are yet lacking in my flesh in behalf of his body, which is the congregation."

 

(Colossians 1:24)

 

"Not that I have already received it or am already made perfect, but I am pressing on to see if I may also lay hold on that for which Christ Jesus selected me.  Brothers, I do not yet consider myself as having taken hold of it; but one thing is certain: Forgetting the things behind and stretching forward to the things ahead,  I am pressing on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God by means of Christ Jesus.  Therefore, let those of us who are mature be of this mental attitude, and if you are mentally inclined otherwise in any respect, God will reveal the above attitude to you.  At any rate, to the extent we have made progress, let us go on walking orderly in this same course."

 

(Philippians 3:12-15)

[John 12.24to28]

16 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

If the resurrected do not want to accept GB theology then what will become of them?

 

Then they get a prize! 😃

 

"Let no man deprive you of the prize who takes delight in a false humility and a form of worship of the angels, “taking his stand on” the things he has seen. He is actually puffed up without proper cause by his fleshly frame of mind,  and he is not holding fast to the head, to the one through whom the whole body is supplied and harmoniously joined together by means of its joints and ligaments and made to grow with the growth that is from God."

 

(Colossians 2:18,19)

 

The treatment of the GB as if they are higher or like "angels" with some kind of superpowers is not what Jesus had in mind for the congregation. Jesus is the head of the congregation, not a committee of imperfect men.

[Pudgy]

51 minutes ago, AudreyAnnaNana said:

The GB/Bethel has become the clergy class of the organization. They are paid. (How much does your room and board and insurance and medical care cost you? How much does it cost them?) They dictate manmade doctrines and enforce them with a ban against anyone who doesn't bow down. That is not what is supposed to happen according to Hebrews 13:17.

That’s why it takes over 20 man-years of public witnessing to get  ONE  new Jehovah’s Witness, who will stay his or her entire lifetime.

 

 

[John 12.24to28]

27 minutes ago, MankeptforRacialsecretratters said:

Can you prove which man-made doctrines you are referring to?

Yes, but maybe tomorrow, I'm a little sleepy now. 🥱😌