"SPECIAL INVESTIGATION INTO JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES"

[Space Merchant]

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Is this topic under Catholic Open Club or under JW Open Club ? :))

Granted you have reading comprehension, it was from the article, which you liked but did not read, not to mention you not knowing the former Jehovah's Witnesses in question whom you could not address by name.

Now if you read the article you'd know that, as I literally posted the article here:

Also, you are said before you did not care about News Corp, why the sudden change?

 

That being said, thank you for proving my point again, I applaud the willful foolishness and your willfulness to ignore and not read into things, let alone the article, granted YOU mentioned News Corp as well...

 

As for your other assertions:

Did WT magazines gave enough proper "train" to JW elders and JW members in 1980's ? If yes why JWORG have such massive problem inside Organization 30-40  years later? Are they actually fighting it the wrong way as all other ?! Articles about CSA in WT publications came from what source? From inside WTJWorg  wisdom "guided by HS", or by "worldly" source or from mixed sources?

As stated before, there are some who actually put forth the effort to apply the the information, as is with those who do not, granted, the bystander syndrome effect and the mentality of the individual and or persons not believing such an event would happened to them, thus should child abuse take place, they are caught off guard.

I would not say fighting it wrong per say, just not equipped to handle such situations, mainly during a time where abuse be it sexual and physical and or verbal was higher and not something that people in common around that time were well prepared for. People only began to learn to deal with child abuse as the years went on by, with all avenues open to us now, it opens door to training and learning all things about child abuse and the mentality of an abuser, how they operate, so we can spot the signs early before an abuse takes place, and should an abuse take place, how to deal with the aftermath. I told you this before, but you laughed at helping children, and I am 100% sure since that day, you, like 4Jah2me, fit the category of those who are aware of child abuse within institutions, but have not taking any sort of action whatsoever to become a safeguard to children. Dare I ask you want you've done so far since 2018 when you were addressed the solutions, I know you have done nothing.

Train yourself? WTJWorg trained themselves in this subject? But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil. - Heb 5:14 

Granted there are legitimate Jehovah's Witnesses out there, who knows about child abuse and actually do what they can to prevent it - yes. As pointed out, there are some who are aware, no different from the general public. I am an example, I know about child abuse, and I do take action, and by means of my action, as with others with the same mindset, we enable a minimized risk to further abuse towards children, and these actions play a huge role within the community itself, and can expand to help other communities. Therefore, it comes down to application in the subject matter - child abuse.

Even with this advanced self training collective attitude G. Jackson publicly asked  ARC The Hon Justice Peter McClellan, "tell us please how you want us to deal with CSA and we will." He, GB member asked "worldly person" for advice and direction and instruction to be incorporated in Australian legislative. But on other hand WTJWorg instructed all "self trained elders"  to call Legal Department in Branch Office first and skip Secular Government legislative. :))

That is why if you continued on into the conclusion of ARC, it was stated for Jehovah's Witnesses to better clarify things, the very reason that ARC even provided the same material Evo did on this thread, perhaps there is more. ARC also encourages teaching children as is with means of helping them. I recall I stated this regarding ARC, you laughed at it well, but of course, laughing, to you, seems to help children more than taking action, Srecko, therefore, you give no benefit to child abuse at all, surprisingly you are not an enabler.

That being said, church action was discuss, you made a fool of yourself in that subject mater a while back, not wise to repeat the same thing, granted with what we know in regards to the situation.

[Space Merchant]

@4Jah2me But not too long ago you spoke of cleaning out the faith of Jehovah's Witnesses regarding child abuse, which is as impossible as someone trying to end racism around the world. All someone has to do is read through all your posts, as is with slander assertions you even added into the mix, as is, with lackless solutions.

That being said, as pointed out, this is indeed the reality, even after The Redress, which needs some work in of itself because there were some call outs of physically abused children, child abuse can only be dealt with by God and his Christ. No imperfect person can clean out entirely sexual brazen conduct in all institutions, even the faith community of Jehovah's Witnesses, child abuse will still be a regular sin that plagues all communities. The only thing you can do is to fight child abuse by teaching the people, children and adults, so they can be the very ones to stand up to child abuse, and we do so by using God's Word, the very reason I told you use that wisdom to teach people. From the day this thread was started, I continue to pass such wisdom, and you could have done the same, but clearly you fit the bystander syndrome narrative choosing to do nothing, but at least you know it, but your ability to take some form of action is not there. Age is of no factor because I can tell you right now, even the elderly in the US, as is in the UK, take the same stand as I do, there is not much of an excuse.

I do not see why the notion of teaching such things irks you, let alone thinking that such a thing is world based when it is by means of the Bible that enables us to pass wisdom when it comes to discernment and being cautious of danger.

The second problem with the Redress is now people are that the alternative is the courts, granted the Redress itself still needs adjustments. They may be making some changes after this is all over.

[Space Merchant]

5 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Correct! However, ex-witnesses don't want to read sound logic. They prefer to hear from insiders that have a problem with how the organization is being run. They don't believe in God's plan, and how God cleans an organization that has been corrupted by outside influence. I believe Dr. Furuli's new book speak volumes on that kind of influence.

From what I have seen throughout the years, the former Jehovah's Witnesses the ones who endlessly go after the faith, even making money on the speaking badly about the faith, NONE OF THEM, have done anything to combat child abuse, therefore, they apply the same mindset as both Srecko and 4Jah2me, and the other guy on this thread. To Witness' credit, she actually posted a solution in the past, but never has her or anyone else acted upon pushing out this information. The Jehovah's Witnesses, they do fit the category, granted this is common among mankind, as addressed before, knowing but unaware of how to commit to action, that is why some of them learned what to do and what needs to be done, as is the same with anyone fighting child abuse as a whole. Equivocation brought up a good point, granted his experience, and I had mentioned a couple of others in the past, for within every single community, there are those among them that knows what the problem is and has taken action and or passing information along to help fight against a problem.

Yes, cleaning does is not something 100%, you can keep doing what needs to be done to minimize and prevent forms of abuse. The sad reality is, you can save 4-5 children and or play a role in preventing them and or anyone they know from being abused and or targeted by an abuser, however, elsewhere, that same number of children are not so lucky. Tragic as it may sound, but the more we help out, this goes for all communities, even for you Jehovah's Witnesses, the higher chance we can reduce child abuse.

That being said, this bystander like mentality is something of the common man, of which we can see it play out with all things, even when it comes to various sins, and events happening as we speak and or soon to happen, hence, The End Times.

5 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Ex-witnesses don't understand the outside politics such as in, how Australia overturned Cardinal George Pell, sexual child abuse conviction that he "personally" was charged with, not because of priest actions but his own action. Where does that leave their irrational ideology? Will it stop them, they can't. They have invested years of being "wrong" they can't do anything but continue to harp on nonsense, from either outsiders or insiders.

https://www.npr.org/2020/04/06/828511647/australias-high-court-overturns-cardinal-pell-s-child-sexual-abuse-conviction?t=1593457004730

Exactly, but apparently people are too blinded by their own misfortune and disdainment. Granted we are talking about child abuse, the majority of them are unaware, as is with all who are not equipped to deal with child abuse, do not know the mind of an abuser. To some degree they are mental to the point of knowing how to exploit others in order to gain something and or get access to something.

I pointed out in the past, abusers tend to target children in various ways through exploitation and several other things that shows how dark and demented such people are.

That being said, it is quite sad that a key element in fighting child abuse is often ignored, even if ARC promotes the same thing, such people will not apply it, however, there are the few that would come to their sense and take action, go about the situation of child abuse the correct way.

As a sidenote, back in 2017, there was actually a former JW who brought this up. He was not attacking JWs, just the problem itself and stated nearly the same thing I would say, or that of child abuse prevention services, however, the other former JWs who express apostasy, sent him death threats and attacked him, even fat shaming him, as you can see, they even somehow got his videos terminated off of YouTube. This person was the same one who stopped the disgruntled ones in the park by getting officials involved, and around that same time apostate former JWs continued to blame the JWs for the event at the park, when it was actually this one former JW that did this. As you can see even among them there is division.

As for Srecko's comments, some of them have been addressed before, I don't see how and why he continues to bring them up, thinking that people would forget old discussion.

Granted the Redress is being talked about, I found these two articles, which is somewhat relative to the current situation:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-15/redress-scheme-doesnt-help-all-abuse-victims-campaigner-says/9874576

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-01/survivors-warn-claimants-could-be-worse-off-under-redress-scheme/9822658

[Arauna]

8 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

how "physical protection" is task for secular government.

THE GOVERNMENT has the resources to interview children by qualified child psychologists and have the resources to get a court conviction with input from these government officials.   So what part of this sentence do you not understand?

  

 

[Arauna]

On 6/28/2020 at 10:30 PM, Equivocation said:

The United States of America where there is a type of culture that promotes pedophile like behavior and over sexualize children. I d

True, UNESCO has promoted a new curriculum in most countries of the world for the past 20 years.  Poor countries see their fundi cuts if they do not comply. Under child sex education they teach children about worst forms of porneia and how to find pleasure in sex - oversexualizing them at a very young age.  If you think this generation is promiscuous - wait until this generation hits young adulthood. You can already see the effects of the school education on the youth at universities right now. They have NO respect for life and the rights of others to have an opinion. The lawlessness and rioting (for whatever the reason) is beyond normal behavior.

 

[Srecko Sostar]

5 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

I challenge you on this one and I wait.

Wait ...and you will grow old :))

[Arauna]

1 minute ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Wait

Not a good answer..... Wait...… and you will soon see how Jehovah will vindicate his people. Yes, there are a lot of flaws.. but then..... so did Israel have flaws back in their day - and Jehovah still used them for his purpose.

[Srecko Sostar]

5 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

I would not say fighting it wrong per say, just not equipped to handle such situations,

But you said exactly that way :)). And conclusion or answer why they (WTJWorg) fighting in wrong way is visible by your appendix: they are "just not equipped to handle such situations".  

You making better reasoning and have better wisdom than WTJWorg GB and Helpers. Thanks!

[Srecko Sostar]

4 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

As for Srecko's comments, some of them have been addressed before, I don't see how and why he continues to bring them up, thinking that people would forget old discussion.

Repetitio est mater studiorum :)))

[Arauna]

9 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

id WT magazines gave enough proper "train" to JW elders and JW members in 1980's ?

You make me laugh.  I was a journalist back then and remember that this topic was taboo in society before 1980.  In the seventies people started talking about it; only in the eighties the secular world woke up to the scale of the problem and started to bring in  inadequate laws to protect children.  They closed the last legal gap only in 2007 in USA when they brought in the law that children no longer needed to face the perpetrator in court and be cross examined...…   but you know all of this.

We have been through these discussions before.  This is when an obtuse heart becomes a block to true understanding.... sorry to say.... but this is true.  All aspects of this subject has been covered before in many pages and still you guys keep opening it up again and again (OCD-like) asif this is all you think about.

[Srecko Sostar]

28 minutes ago, Arauna said:

THE GOVERNMENT has the resources to interview children by qualified child psychologists and have the resources to get a court conviction with input from these government officials.   So what part of this sentence do you not understand?

  

 

WTJWorg should dissolve the Judicial Committees dealing with such matters.

I would understand that sentence, if he and you said in such clear way. Not to have parallel Legislative. One Legislative by Elders ...... and one by Secular Authorities that are under Romans chapter 13 explanation.

If this is clear to you and other JW members why you agree that elders "interview children" ???

[Arauna]

6 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

they are "just not equipped to handle s

They are not equipped to stop wicked people from choosing to break Jehovah's law.  Even Jehovah allows people to do what they choose.... for now.  The elders can help those who repent or need help spiritually and want to serve Jehovah with an honest heart.

BUT, you guys are the first to call out JWs as cruel when they do manage to get evidence together to put someone out of the congregation.  This is about the only tool they have to protect Jehovah's people and you always use this as a weapon against the JWs  as being cruel, unjust or dictatorial or …. the list goes on.  Elders will only take this action with sufficient evidence..... if they do not have it, then caution and mercy wins. …. but you know this..... it was discussed before