Jump to content
The World News Media

JW Canada: Judge authorizes class action for Jehovah's Witnesses sex abuse victims


Guest Indiana

Recommended Posts

  • Member

Aren't all jws consider ministers? 

 

15. What happens when a person gets baptized? (See also footnote.)

15 Eventually, the Bible student, having developed a love of Jehovah God and a strong faith in the ransom sacrifice, wishes to dedicate himself completely to his heavenly Father. (John 14:1) He makes that dedication in personal prayer and then gets baptized as a public symbol of that private act. His baptism is  his ordination ceremony because that is when he is recognized as a fully dedicated servant, a di·aʹko·nos, of God. He must remain separate from the world. (John 17:16; James 4:4) He has presented his whole self “a sacrifice living, holy, acceptable to God” without reserve or condition. (Romans 12:1) * He is God’s minister, imitating Christ.

The Watchtower—Study Edition  |  November 15, 2000

 

 

So wouldn't Anna's comment be correct? "we" 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Views 4.6k
  • Replies 102
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Um, so, if all are Ministers in the JW Org, then all those that commit the crime of Child Abuse in the Org are Ministers. So it could rightly be said that JW Ministers commit Child Abuse. Some of

The Clergy Privilege is a PRIVILEGE THAT ONLY EXISTS IF IT IS CLAIMED!!!! If we RECANT it ... it will INSTANTLY cease to be a factor in any deliberations. That little piece of fluff is REMOV

This is NOT true ... from the legal sources you yourself quoted earlier ... go back and read your own citations. Your agenda has clouded your reading comprehension and perception skills. If

Posted Images

  • Member
3 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

Aren't all jws consider ministers? 

Yes, they are. But not all ministers are considered clergy, because not all ministers are shepherds.

So my saying "we" was still wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member

 

 

 

9 minutes ago, Shiwiii said:

15. What happens when a person gets baptized? (See also footnote.)

15 Eventually, the Bible student, having developed a love of Jehovah God and a strong faith in the ransom sacrifice, wishes to dedicate himself completely to his heavenly Father. (John 14:1) He makes that dedication in personal prayer and then gets baptized as a public symbol of that private act. His baptism is  his ordination ceremony because that is when he is recognized as a fully dedicated servant, a di·aʹko·nos, of God. He must remain separate from the world. (John 17:16; James 4:4) He has presented his whole self “a sacrifice living, holy, acceptable to God” without reserve or condition. (Romans 12:1) * He is God’s minister, imitating Christ.

The Watchtower—Study Edition  |  November 15, 2000

So wouldn't Anna's comment be correct? "we"  

I will believe THAT, if Anna baptizes her Bible Study in a neighbor's pool, and Anna does not get disfellowshipped, and the baptism "nullified".

dt890603dhc0.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
40 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

@Anna  I do worry about you. And when you said 'we' I almost knew you meant the Elders. So then it got me thinking are you in fact a man, an Elder.

However, you seem to talk in different manners at different times, making me think that you are different people. Possibly two or more people using the same name on the same computer, working as a team.. 

The expression 'My bad' seems to only come from one of your personas. But in other cases you talk correctly.  Confusing to say the least. 

You are overthinking it John! I am just an ordinary sister. And I explained why I said "we".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
2 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

There IS a difference !

If you are paid, you are clergy.

If you do it for money, you are clergy.

If you are a “mercenary minister,” you are clergy.

If you do it out of love for God and neighbor, and do not collect pay, then you are not clergy and you are NOT extended the same privileges as they for the spiritual aspects of the job. 

If you can shake the congregation down for a paycheck, then you ARE extended those privileges 

Is that what you are trying to say?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

If you can shake the congregation down for a paycheck, then you ARE extended those privileges 

Is that what you are trying to say?

If this is true TTH .... AND IT'S NOT ... Why does the WTB&TS represent themselves in court case after court case .... AS CLERGY ... in order to not have to tell the secrets they are privy to, that in the genuine public interest .... our own ... and outsiders .. there needs to be full disclosure, and reporting as a MORAL imperative ...screw getting a legal exemption, which they salivate and lust for ... crimes to the Civil Authorities?

I did not TRY to say anything other than what I did say.

AS USUAL, your agenda driven thinking caused you to deliberately misunderstand, and attempt diversion and obfuscation.

Theoretically, like us, no Catholic clergy gets a paycheck ... but like us ...  in most cases ....   they get all expenses covered, and never miss a meal, sleep cold, or dress shabbily.

I have done all three WITH a paycheck.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
1 hour ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Therefore, under the law, we are LABELED, ministers because of our ecclesiastical WORK. This is regardless if a person gets paid or not. Was Jesus paid? Where the Apostles?

This is NOT true ... from the legal sources you yourself quoted earlier ... go back and read your own citations.

Your agenda has clouded your reading comprehension and perception skills.

If we lable OURSELVES Clergy, which the Society HAS DONE .... we are saddled with the law regarding Clergy

In the United States, the government cannot label your religious affiliated people "Clergy" ... separation of Church and State. They cannot even question you about ANY beliefs or labels you GIVE YOURSELVES.

It is the WTB&TS that is claiming CLERGY PRIVILEGE ... not them ( the government) assigning it, which is illegal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
8 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

There are times a lawyer gives service without compensation. Does that lawyer stop being a lawyer because he didn't get paid? 

Of course not.

It is an argument almost too stupid to make. I can’t believe that people are nevertheless making it with regard to who gets to be counted as clergy.

The only brand of religion that an irreligious world recognizes is a monetized one, in which the minister “has a church” and “gets paid.”

Try to do it as did Jesus or Paul and you are incomprehensible to them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member

Um, so, if all are Ministers in the JW Org, then all those that commit the crime of Child Abuse in the Org are Ministers.

So it could rightly be said that JW Ministers commit Child Abuse. Some of those ministers are JW Clergy :) 

Child Abuse is not funny, but this forum is funny. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
3 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The only brand of religion that an irreligious world recognizes is a monetized one, in which the minister “has a church” and “gets paid.”

Try to do it as did Jesus or Paul and you are incomprehensible to them.

That is EXACTLY why it is blatantly STUPID .... to label YOURSELF as CLERGY.

It's like deliberately  running into an incoming  shoulder-thrown fist from professionals that needed your cooperation to break your skull

I believe it is time for BillytheKid46 to post something irrelevant and off point now, so I will yield the floor ....

dt990131shc0.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites





  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Popular Contributors

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Definitely should try the Bond roll here when you get a chance: this is a mom and pop place that does a great job  
    • An interesting concept, bible discipline. I am struck by the prevalence of ignorance about spiritual discipline on "Reddit." While physical and mental disciplines receive attention, the profound impact of spiritual discipline on a person's physical and mental well-being is often overlooked. Is it possible to argue against the words of the Apostle Paul? When he penned those words in Hebrews 12, he was recognizing that there are moments when an individual must be "rebuked" in order to be corrected. Even Jesus himself established a precedent when he rebuked Peter and referred to him as Satan for failing to comprehend what Jesus had already revealed to the apostles. Did that imply that Jesus had an evil heart? Not at all, it was quite the opposite; Jesus had a loving heart. His need to correct Peter actually showcased his genuine love for him. If he hadn't cared, he would have let Peter persist in his mistaken ways, leading to a fate similar to Judas'. There is a clear emphasis on avoiding the apostate translation and its meaning, yet many seem to overlook the biblical foundation for the reasons NOT to follow the path of the fallen brethren or those with an apostate mentality. Those individuals have embraced the path of darkness, where the illuminating power of light cannot penetrate, to avoid receiving the righteous discipline based on God's Bible teachings. They are undoubtedly aware that this undeniable truth of life must be disregarded in order to uphold their baseless justifications for the unjust act of shunning. Can anyone truly "force" someone or stop them from rejecting a friend or family member? Such a notion would be absurd, considering the fact that we all have the power of free will. If a Witness decides to distance themselves from a family member or friend simply because they have come out as gay, who is anyone within the organization to question or challenge that personal sentiment? It is unfortunate that there are individuals, both within and outside the organization, who not only lack a proper understanding of the Bible but also dare to suggest that God's discipline is barbaric. We must remember that personal choices should be respected, and it is not for others to judge or condemn someone based on their sexual orientation but should be avoided under biblical grounds. No one should have the power to compel an individual to change their sexual orientation, nor should anyone be forced to accept someone for who they are. When it comes to a family's desire to shield their children from external influences, who has the right to challenge the parents' decision? And if a family's rejection of others is based on cultural factors rather than religious beliefs, who can impose religious judgment on them? Who should true followers of Christ follow? The words of God or those who believe they can change God's laws to fit their lives? How can we apply the inspired words of Paul from God to embrace the reality of God's discipline? On the contrary, how can nonconformists expect to persuade those with a "worldview" that their religious beliefs are unacceptable by ostracizing individuals, when God condemns homosexuality? This is precisely why the arguments put forth by ex-witnesses are lacking in their pursuit of justice. When they employ misguided tactics, justice remains elusive as their arguments are either weak or inconsistent with biblical standards. Therefore, it is crucial to also comprehend Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 9:27. The use of the word "shun" is being exaggerated and excessively condemned by those who reject biblical shunning as a form of punishment. Eph 5:3-14 NIV 3 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. 4 Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. 5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person — such a man is an idolater — has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.  6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7 Therefore do not be partners with them.  8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light 9 (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) 10 and find out what pleases the Lord. 11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. 13 But everything exposed by the light becomes visible. The impact of the message becomes significantly stronger when we emphasize the importance of avoiding any association with unrighteousness and those who remain unrepentant. In fact, it becomes even more compelling when we witness how some individuals, who dismiss biblical shunning as a method of discipline, excessively criticize and condemn the use of the word "shun". Therefore, Jehovah's Witnesses do not shun people; instead, they choose to focus on the negative actions being committed, which is in accordance with biblical teachings. This should be construed as ex-Witness rhetoric. Now, let's consider why ex-Witnesses specifically target one particular religion. What justifications do they provide when other Christian denominations also adhere to the same principle grounded in the Bible? Chapter 1 - Preface Both must therefore test themselves: the one, if he is qualified to speak and leave behind him written records; the other, if he is in a right state to hear and read: as also some in the dispensation of the Eucharist, according to  custom enjoin that each one of the people individually should take his part. One's own conscience is best for choosing accurately or shunning. And its firm foundation is a right life, with suitable instruction. But the imitation of those who have already been proved, and who have led correct lives, is most excellent for the understanding and practice of the commandments. "So that whosoever shall eat the bread and drink the cup of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup."  It therefore follows, that every one of those who undertake to promote the good of their neighbours, ought to consider whether he has betaken himself to teaching rashly and out of rivalry to any; if his communication of the word is out of vainglory; if the the only reward he reaps is the salvation of those who hear, and if he speaks not in order to win favour: if so, he who speaks by writings escapes the reproach of mercenary motives. "For neither at any time used we flattering words, as ye know," says the apostle, "nor a cloak of covetousness. God is witness. Nor of men sought we glory, neither of you, nor yet of others, when we might have been burdensome as the apostles of Christ. But we were gentle among you, even as a nurse cherisheth her children."   (from Ante-Nicene Fathers, Volume 2) Divine promises 2. The manner of shunning, in the word escaping. There is a flying away required, and that quickly, as in the plague, or from a fire which hath almost burned us, or a flood that breaketh in upon us. We cannot soon enough escape from sin (Matt 3:7; Heb 6:18). No motion but flight becomes us in this case. Doctrine: That the great end and effect of the promises of the gospel is to make us partakers of the Divine nature. (from The Biblical Illustrator)  
    • Clearly, they are already demanding your exile. Yes! It's unfortunate that Pudgy spoiled a great discussion about science. I hope the discussion can continue without any more nonsensical interruptions. Just a suggestion since they are on your heels. Wow! You speak! It seems you have a lot to say! Now they are going to treat like, who do you think you are, mister big stuff! Are those aliens now going to imply that anyone who speaks out against the five or six key contributors to this site will be treated as though it is George just because those in opposition speak the language they hate to hear, the TRUTH? They are seeking individuals who will embrace their nonconformist values and appreciate what they can offer in shaping public opinion contrary to the established agenda of God and Christ. Their goal is to enhance their writing abilities and avoid squandering time on frivolous pursuits, mainly arguing about the truth they don't care for. They see it all as a mere game, even when leading people astray. They believe they have every right to and will face no biblical repercussions, or so they believe. They just want to have fun just like that Cyndi Lauper song. Be prepared to be belittled and ridiculed, all the while they claim to be angels. Haha! By the way, please refrain from using the same language as George. They appear to believe that when others use the same words, it means they are the same person, and they emphasize this as if no one else is allowed to use similar grammar. It seems they think only they have the right to use the same or similar writing styles. Quite amusing, isn't it? See, what I just placed in bold, now I'm George, lol! Now, let's leave this nice science thread for people that want to know more about science. I believe George left it at "Zero Distance."  
    • Nice little thread you’ve got going here, SciTech. It would be a shame if something were to happen to it.
    • It's truly disheartening when someone who is supposed to be a friend of the exclusive group resorts to using profanity in their comments, just like other members claiming to be witnesses. It's quite a ludicrous situation for the public to witness.  Yet, the "defense" of such a person, continues. 
  • Members

    No members to show

  • Recent Status Updates

    • lauleb  »  misette

      merci pour ton travail très utile. tu es une aide qui fortifie
      · 0 replies
    • Pamela Dunston  »  T.B. (Twyla)

      Hi, TB
      I would like to get the weekly meeting and watchtower materials  and the 2024 convention 
      Attend the 2024 Convention—“Declare the Good News!”
      notebook, I just recently got a new computer, If don't mind my brother to add me on and allow me access to our study again.
       
      Thank you, so much
      Sister Dunston
      · 1 reply
    • SpiritualSister 24  »  DARLENE2022

      Hello, Darlene, I just love your name, I had a cousin named Darline, and had a classmate also named Darlene! It's a pleasure to know another Darlene! Especially a Spiritual Sister! There's some websites, Ministry Ideaz , JW Stuff.com, and Etsy that I use to order my yearly buttons for the Conventions! They always send me what I order, and their also Jehovah's Witnesses, that send us the merchandise we order!  You can check out these websites, and they might have what your looking for! I hope I have been helpful in assisting you, Darlene! Agape love, Shirley!😀
      · 1 reply
    • SpiritualSister 24

      2024"Enter Into God's Rest" Circuit Assembly! 
      · 0 replies
    • Janice Lewis  »  T.B. (Twyla)

      Hello Twyla, when will the weekly study material be available. I am a member.
      Janice Lewis     lewisjanice84@gmail.com
      Thank you
      · 1 reply
  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
      65.4k
    • Total Posts
      159.9k
  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      17,689
    • Most Online
      1,592

    Newest Member
    chelle1959
    Joined
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Service Confirmation Terms of Use Privacy Policy Guidelines We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.