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JW's: How do you feel about being told that you MUST wear your badge even when out to dinner at night with your family after a convention?

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James Thomas Rook Jr. -
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2 minutes ago, Anna said:

it is a recommendation (not a MUST) Soooo.....where's the problem?

There is a quite a difference between a suggestion and a directive.

Was the direction given as a suggestion? So delegates were free not to wear it?

What would happen if one of them chose NOT to wear it?

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31 minutes ago, Jack Ryan said:

What would happen if one of them chose NOT to wear it?

That's an easy one. I did not wear mine two out of the three days. And guess what happened? Absolutely nothing!

I think you are a little misguided there Jack. Do you really think that some elder is going to hunt someone down for not wearing a badge? If you really think that, then you have been damaged more than I thought. I am sorry and wish I could help.

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I believe we are witnesses of Jehovah 24/7 if there is a request to wear badges at a meal in a hotel it is a witness to everyone who is staying at the hotel also it reminds us we are not on holiday we are there because Jehovah invited us to be at His table for the spiritual food that we need at this time, you don`t have to wear your badge if you don`t want to give a witness and say this is how we are when we come to Jehovah`s table,  it may open the way for someone to give you the experience that you only hear about from others. If you moan about a small thing like the wearing of a badge at dinner at the hotel where you`re staying, then what are you going to do when we are instructed to do/go something that is not practical in our eyes,  just not do it, Small things we comply with will give us the determination to do a bigger life saving thing in the future. Please don`t squabble or moan about the small things LOOK at the bigger picture keep your minds on what Jehovah will bring

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@derek1956 Derek, I don't think anyone is squabbling here. Jack made it clear that he no longer believes the Bible and JW organization, so listening or not listening to any instructions big or small is irrelevant to him. As for me, I had legitimate reasons for not wearing my badge twice. What I was trying to point out was that it is up to each individual whether they wear one or not, just like it will be up to each individual whether they listen to some directive in the future. We are not robots, no one is going to MAKE us do anything now, or in the future. 

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3 hours ago, derek1956 said:

If you moan about a small thing like the wearing of a badge at dinner at the hotel where you`re staying, then what are you going to do when we are instructed to do/go something that is not practical in our eyes, 

But as for you, communicate the behavior that goes with sound teaching.  Titus 2:1

For there will be a time when people will not tolerate sound teaching. Instead, following their own desires, they will accumulate teachers for themselves, because they have an insatiable curiosity to hear new things. (NET)

Hold to the standard of sound words that you heard from me and do so with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.  2 Tim 1:13

Believe what the Bible says.  Be like a Berean, "examining the scriptures carefully every day to see if these things were so."  ("when we are instructed to do/go something that is not practical in our eyes")   Acts 17:11

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7 hours ago, Jack Ryan said:

What if you are ordered to do some other crazy thing like.... never use a credit card?

north korea GIF

 

Really? You answer a question with another question?

Why should the watchtower organization even tell you what to do in your own time?!

Jesus NEVER instituted an organisation or theocratic kingdom on earth

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4 hours ago, derek1956 said:

I believe we are witnesses of Jehovah 24/7 if there is a request to wear badges at a meal in a hotel it is a witness to everyone who is staying at the hotel also it reminds us we are not on holiday we are there because Jehovah invited us to be at His table for the spiritual food that we need at this time, you don`t have to wear your badge if you don`t want to give a witness and say this is how we are when we come to Jehovah`s table,  it may open the way for someone to give you the experience that you only hear about from others. If you moan about a small thing like the wearing of a badge at dinner at the hotel where you`re staying, then what are you going to do when we are instructed to do/go something that is not practical in our eyes,  just not do it, Small things we comply with will give us the determination to do a bigger life saving thing in the future. Please don`t squabble or moan about the small things LOOK at the bigger picture keep your minds on what Jehovah will bring

No, you are witnesses of the watchtower.

 

 

[000027].jpg

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@Jesus.defender Not really. We are worshippers of Jehovah God. And we do what his son Jesus had commanded us to do, to preach the good news and to make discples. We also apply what qualities that Jesus expresses.

 

For a defender if Jesus. Last I checked Jesus doesn't attack his fellow man, let alone a random stranger. 

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@Jack Ryan Not really dude. It's a matter of choice, no one his forced. 

No one is forcing you to eat coco puffs, wheaties or apple Jack's in the morning, you choose what to eat. True someone might tell you what is healthy or what is not, but at the end of the day hombre, it's a choice. 

 

It is high like Miami right now. It is my choice to dump bottles of water on my head and sit in the comfort of my own room with the AC straight blasting jajaja

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1 hour ago, Jesus.defender said:

Jesus NEVER instituted an organisation or theocratic kingdom on earth

He entrusted the Christian Congregation. Ever heard of Paul, Clement, and a list of others?

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Guest Indiana
10 hours ago, Jack Ryan said:

What if you are ordered to do some other crazy thing like.... never use a credit card?

Never use a credit card if you want to enjoy financial peace. Start creating an emergency fund for those unexpected expenses. That should be ordered everywhere. 🤭

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1 hour ago, Equivocation said:

@Jesus.defender Not really. We are worshippers of Jehovah God. And we do what his son Jesus had commanded us to do, to preach the good news and to make discples. We also apply what qualities that Jesus expresses.

 

For a defender if Jesus. Last I checked Jesus doesn't attack his fellow man, let alone a random stranger. 

Really?

 

"But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!"

He called people the sons of satan, liars, hypocrites and told them they were going to hell.

 

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2 hours ago, Jesus.defender said:

they were going to hell.

Hell is not the lake of fire... Nor does God condone fire torment because he emotionally reacted to it as well as drove it out the land; punished people for it. If you want to slander God with the teachings of demons, I will not allow it and you will easily be refuted again and again, Deserter.

And what he said is not hypocritical because Jesus as commanded the church do continue teaching, this is ever so evident of what can be read in Acts 2, but last I checked, Trinitarians don't like Acts 2 and pretend it does not exist. No wonder the MSC is dying....

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4 hours ago, Equivocation said:

He entrusted the Christian Congregation. Ever heard of Paul, Clement, and a list of others?

Most Trinitarians pretend that such things do not exist, reasons why you never here them speak of those who were in control of the church and held religious office in said church. Apostle Paul speaks of the church, and he even mentioned Clement of Rome, as can be seen even in the Bible.

  • Philippians 4:3 -Yes, I ask you also, true companion,help these women, who have labored side by side with me in the gospel together with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life.

Clement, like Paul, was a faithful Christian, in union with the Christ and his God, and was on Paul's side concerning the good news gospel hence their situation in Phillippi.

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With all due respect, people should get their facts straight before they make a bold unverified statement.

When a person does that quite  often (without proper vetting their statements) then people will suspect EVERYTHING they say thereafter. That is why their overall credibility will and should suffer.

Think about it.

Just saying.

 

 

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19 hours ago, Jack Ryan said:

Was the direction given as a suggestion? So delegates were free not to wear it?

What would happen if one of them chose NOT to wear it?

Of course, it depends on listeners at convention how seriously they will take what was said From Platform! All what was said from Platform should be, need to be taken very seriously, and as such it have some sound, some sort Of Obligation to JW Members. In this Context @Jack Ryan have good point. I don't now how "seriously" elders want and have to empowered this thing about badges after convention program. But every "good" JW will take that very seriously and wearing his badge all days in purpose of Witnessing. I think how that is main point about badges, to promote JW religion.

Of course, we have various perception on how that can look sometimes in some circumstances as @Anna mentioned. I remember International Convention in Nuremberg in 1998 i think. I saw a large group of delegates (think Germans, but not sure any more) who returned from restaurant. It is normal condition, after whole day of sitting, summer temperatures, big evening meal, beverages (wine or beer)  slowly walked through road, a little sloppy because of the tiredness of each and every type, the clothes were no longer so neat, somehow looked under power of drink or tired  or both :)) ,.... but they had badges.

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19 hours ago, derek1956 said:

Small things we comply with will give us the determination to do a bigger life saving thing in the future

Like what? 

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7 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I think how that is main point about badges, to promote JW religion.

Sheesh. Next thing you know, Srecko will be saying that JWs in the concentration camps wore purple triangles to “promote JW religion.”

Why make such a conspiracy out of everything? It is not as though people have never been known to wear name badges outside of Christianity, or that their doing so is the sure sign of a brainwashed cult.

Their wearing badges advertising  the convention is in perfect harmony with “declaring this good news of the kingdom in all the inhabited earth.”

 

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Those who love Jehovah will follow the lead of his organization and stay on the path of righteousness that leads to everlasting life.  Those who leave Jehovah's true organization and become apostates and try to mislead others or place doubts in their minds are on that other path....the one that leads to destruction, along with Satan and his followers.   I choose to listen to Jehovah and his servants!

 

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And.....why do some people BOLDLY say certain things about JW's without getting their facts straight?

If you imply that you know what your talking about, then my goodness, do some proper research, before you destroy all your credibility and look like a fool.

People will catch on given enough time.

 

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1 hour ago, Patricia A Trotter said:

Those who love Jehovah will follow the lead of his organization and stay on the path of righteousness that leads to everlasting life.  Those who leave Jehovah's true organization and become apostates and try to mislead others or place doubts in their minds are on that other path....the one that leads to destruction, along with Satan and his followers.   I choose to listen to Jehovah and his servants!

 

Does wearing a badge determine if one is on the path of righteousness?  Do you remember the cross and crown on the early Watchtower magazines?  It is a Masonic symbol that can be worn as a pin.  Would wearing it show you were on the path of righteousness when it was used by the Watchtower; and, would you wear it today, or is it not acceptable jewelry  for those who desire to remain on the path of righteousness?  If not, who is the apostate?  Wouldn't the apostates be your brothers and sisters from years past, who treasured this symbol as representing their "organization"?

You say, "those who leave Jehovah's organization..."  Is God and the organization inseparably linked?   Isa 46:5

Image result for cross and crown badge for JWs

 

Image result for Zion's Watchtower

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12 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

slowly walked through road, a little sloppy because of the tiredness of each and every type, the clothes were no longer so neat, somehow looked under power of drink or tired  or both :)) ,.... but they had badges.

Maybe they should have taken them off 😀

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The Governing Body is not some infallible authority over us. Jesus and Jehovah do not give them direct revelations of what they should do or say. If that were the case, there would never be any error on their part. Jehovah and Jesus do not tell the GB that all Witnesses at conventions should wear their badges when out. Their direction comes from what is already in the Bible, and where there is no clear or direct Biblical support for or against, they can can make recommendations as they see fit in their opinion. However, they cannot (and should not) command anyone what to do. If they were to do that, they would be abusing their position, which is feeding the flock with spiritual food, which does not entail giving out commands based on opinion. The only justification for commanding anything is if it is a command in the Bible. The Bible does say "be obedient to those taking the lead". However, this is not an absolute. We know we would not obey anything that was contrary to the Bible. In saying "be obedient to those taking the lead", the assumption is that this would be something beneficial and reasonable and not against scripture.  I would say wearing name badges while out is reasonable. It advertises the convention, it encourages questions and conversation, and it's fun to see others out and about and see they belong to us. There is nothing odd about it. Perhaps also it helps the brothers and sisters remember who they are, in case they get a little forgetful....all these things are probably the most likely reasons for this recommendation,  BUT it is still an option whether one wears one or not. No one that I know of stresses about it either way. Some like to wear something more comfy than a suit and tie while at a restaurant, and some get positively worried about spilling something on their tie (my husband is one). The most obvious reason for changing into different clothes is that not everybody goes out to eat straight after the convention. Some go to their hotel to chill first. And no one chills out in their suit and tie. And to put the suit and tie back on just to go and eat out at a moderate restaurant could be a little odd. Plus it would be extra hard to get the kids back into their fancy clothes after they've spent an hour at the swimming pool..... So, no one I know of purposefully takes their name badge off, but if it so happens that they do get changed into something else, the name badge most likely doesn't go back on....

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On 7/22/2019 at 7:07 AM, Anna said:

As Srecko mentions, it is a recommendation (not a MUST) Soooo.....where's the problem?

Can you point me to watchtower literature on this please?

Also, are those that chose NOT to wear their logo reported?

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41 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

I would think intelligent people would consider the simplicity of a visual badge that sometimes companies use to identify such conventioneers to automatically include a discount on their bill rather than have to go through the trouble of having that person, prove it. How so! Oh! Intelligence! The freedom! To be or not to be, that is the question

What ARE you going on about?

So, you get "discounts" when you wear your organisation ( the watchtower ) logo?

 

red herrings, much?

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2 hours ago, Anna said:

The Governing Body is not some infallible authority over us. Jesus and Jehovah do not give them direct revelations of what they should do or say.

Yes, they are your infallible authority over you.

And yes, "Jehovah" DOES speak through the watchtower.

"commissioned to serve as the mouthpiece and active agent of Jehovah … commission to speak as a prophet in the name of Jehovah…" The Nations Shall Know that I am Jehovah" - How? pp.58,62

"… commission to speak as a "prophet" in His name…" Watchtower 1972 Mar 15 p.189

"The Watchtower is a magazine without equal in the earth …. This is not giving any credit to the magazine's publishers, but is due to the great Author of the Bible with it truths and prophecies, and who now interprets its prophecies." Watchtower 1943 Apr 15 p.127

"The Watchtower is not the instrument of any man or set of men, nor is it published according to the whims of men. No man's opinion is expressed in The Watchtower. God feeds his own people, and surely God uses those who love and serve him according to his own will. Those who oppose The Watchtower are not capable of discerning the truth that God is giving to the children of his organization, and this is the very strongest proof that such opposers are not of God's organization." Watchtower 1931 Nov 1 p.327


"Avoid independent thinking...questioning the counsel that is provided by God's visible organization. ( ie: the watchtower organisation )" (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983 pg. 22)


"Fight against independent thinking." (Watchtower, Jan. 15, 1983 pg. 27 )


 

Avoid Independant though.jpg

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Wow ... two things just happened here ... Billythekid46 gave an intelligent comment ... AND he refrained from calling someone an ignorant, uneducated apostate fool and condemning them to damnation .... both in the same post!

Mark your Calendars!

Of course, his perspective was COMPLETELY about the monetary advantage ... which is pretty normal for a Watchtower Lawyer.

However, when checking into a room at a Hotel, I have NEVER been questioned about "Are you REALLY one of Jehovah's Witnesses", to get any available discount ..... or anywhere else.

Billy the Monetary Kid 46.jpg

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14 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Their wearing badges advertising  the convention

I said this too, with other wording :))

14 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Next thing you know, Srecko will be saying that JWs in the concentration camps wore purple triangles to “promote JW religion.”

Of course not. Imagination and associatively connecting this two sort of "badges" in your mind is not what i mean. :)))

Purple triangle is forced by "Enemies" who made segregation by their normative. 

Convention Badge is voluntary identification of belonging to some group (religious in this case).

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9 hours ago, Anna said:

Jesus and Jehovah do not give them direct revelations of what they should do or say. If that were the case, there would never be any error on their part.

Oh, but i think how this reasoning can be problematic.

Because, many past Servants of God received "direct revelations" of every sort and in various shapes and forms, but was/were still living in own errors daily, and their errors has been reflected many times on other people life.

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3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Oh, but i think how this reasoning can be problematic.

Because, many past Servants of God received "direct revelations" of every sort and in various shapes and forms, but was/were still living in own errors daily, and their errors has been reflected many times on other people life.

I wasn't talking about their "living in own" errors, the imperfection we all have, I was talking about error in direct revelation.

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Guest Indiana
On 7/21/2019 at 9:55 PM, Indiana said:

Never use a credit card if you want to enjoy financial peace. Start creating an emergency fund for those unexpected expenses. That should be ordered everywhere. 🤭

😃

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On 7/23/2019 at 2:58 AM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

However, when checking into a room at a Hotel, I have NEVER been questioned about "Are you REALLY one of Jehovah's Witnesses", to get any available discount .

This is because the clerk sees you “discreetly parting your suitcoat to reveal your holstered gun, and he doesn’t dare.

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@James Thomas Rook Jr. 3 arms jaja? Is the technological breakthrough legit? All jokes aside, no one is actually forced to wear a badge or required to, it is choice.....

 

Unless...... 🤔🤔🤔 Unless.... You are part of some Police Department of some city or county that yeah, 100% you better have that badge on deck lol. People gotta know you are one of the boys in blue jaja.

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Guest Indiana

 

 

13 minutes ago, Equivocation said:

Unless...... 🤔🤔🤔 Unless.... You are part of some Police Department of some city or county that yeah, 100% you better have that badge on deck lol. People gotta know you are one of the boys in blue jaja

😂 😂Then convention attendants wearing badgets shouldn't visit McDonalds 

    Hello guest!

 

Sunstar paramedic Anthony Quinn said the fast food worker in Madeira Beach, Florida, refused to serve him and his colleague after telling both of them that "we don't serve your kind here."

Quinn discussed the incident in a post on Facebook. "I walk into McDonald's just to use the bathroom and an employee goes we don't accept officers in here," he wrote.

"I tell her I'm not an officer. She then says anyone with a badge. Then says it to my partner as he walks in to order food, says we don't serve your kind here.

"Just insane how people are," Quinn added.

 

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2 hours ago, Indiana said:

 

 

😂 😂Then convention attendants wearing badgets shouldn't visit McDonalds 

    Hello guest!

 

Sunstar paramedic Anthony Quinn said the fast food worker in Madeira Beach, Florida, refused to serve him and his colleague after telling both of them that "we don't serve your kind here."

Quinn discussed the incident in a post on Facebook. "I walk into McDonald's just to use the bathroom and an employee goes we don't accept officers in here," he wrote.

"I tell her I'm not an officer. She then says anyone with a badge. Then says it to my partner as he walks in to order food, says we don't serve your kind here.

"Just insane how people are," Quinn added.

 

Or wearing a suit in some clothing stores. You can easily be mistaken for an employee.

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The Watchtower never gives orders. They suggest; then suggest; then suggest. And if the suggestion is not followed, then the elders suggest; then suggest; then suggest. And if this is not enough, the Circuit Overseer will come to make a speech in which he will suggest; then he will suggest; then he will suggest.

Until all witnesses follow suggestion. And if then a JW arrives who does not follow the suggestion, he will be strongly suggested by the elders who will tell to him that it is important to follow suggestions,  which at this point will no longer be suggestions, but laws.

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The PERFECT example of this is this Weekend's Watchtower Study, paragraphs 15 and 16 , on pages 6 and 7 of the  June, 2019 Issue.

The question for those two paragraphs is advice for perhaps 9 MILLION  JWs and students is:

15-16. What do you learn from the experience of one sister?

It's all about "plausible deniability"

I was going to answer that experiences are as varied as there are people, but I had already answered paragraph 7 .... and this sister sounds like a mental anxiety filled emotional wreck (you will have to read the paragraphs ... I suggest you sit down and put on a seat belt before you start ...), and that at Bethel there is a small army of Lawyers with advanced degrees, Dentists and Doctors with advanced degrees, and the whole place was built by Architects, Civil Engineers, Mechanical Engineers, Electrical Engineers, Computer Engineers, ALL with degrees and licensed by the State of New York.

People that normally make from $85 to $115 an hour ... as EMPLOYEES!

But the only thing you and I need to know is the phrase " .... you want fries with that?'", and hope your parents live to be 95 years old so you can live in their basement and possibly inherit their house .... if they do not will it to the Society, and have you thrown out when they sell it.

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We have elderly sisters in our congregation that have NO FRONT TEETH, because they cannot afford the repairs. I was mentioning to her that advice is like eating a lobster, you have to pick and choose what to eat, and what to throw away, and when I was 42 years old, I had never eaten a lobster, and after five beers, someone served me a lobster at a restaurant.  I had NO IDEA about eating a lobster, and started at the head.

BAD IDEA.

VERY BAD IDEA.

She looked up at me with age and poverty deeply etched into her face, with no front teeth, and said she had never eaten a lobster, or a crab.

What I had intended as a funny anecdote, turned out to be a sad reason for tears.

Mine.

 

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I can't believe this experience is true. It must be the same as the so-called experiences heard in speeches at conventions.
I believe that brothers should have fun inventing facts. In 2019, while there is no longer work for anyone, the Watchtower is still discouraging studies and thus building an army of future unemployed who will live on welfare.

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The experiences I just related are entirely true, without embellishment.

The Lobster story happened to me in 1980 in Portland Oregon.

The conversation with the Sisters ( three on a bench, waiting for someone to bring cars closer to the front door, ) happened YESTERDAY, about 2:45 PM, after the Watchtower Study at the Kingdom Hall, just outside the front door.

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Oh ... I THINK I just realized that you might be talking about Paragraphs 15 and 16 of the Watchtower.

I am well familiar with the "fantasy Parables" that are constantly portrayed in the Watchtower.

These are Parables, and "composite experiences", and things made up from thin air.

I have only seen them correctly labeled ONE TIME, about a year ago, in my half century of reading them.

 

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Sorry.

I wrote the message before your answer but you were faster than me. Certainly due to the fact that I need to verify 2 or 3 times, because I am not English.

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