Revelation: Babylon the Great, etc.

[TrueTomHarley]

9 hours ago, JW Insider said:

It seems like you are seeing way too much importance in a little "backwater" forum where only about three dozen persons ever speak up about such issues, and where two dozen of them are probably you.

Yes. There is no better place to hide than in plain sight. Even the participants her e cannot keep up unless they absolutely have no life. Are we to imagine that everyone else is eagerly following every word?

[Anna]

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Even the participants her e cannot keep up unless they absolutely have no life.

I'm so glad you mention this. I'm feeling guilty for having abandoned the 1914 topic for the child molestation topic, and now here, the Babylon topic. I'm being tossed about like waves, and totally distracted. By the time I get around to coming to the forum, 20 new comments have piled up on top of the one comment I really wanted to respond to, and mentally saved till later, and now, lo and behold, more stuff! Not only more comments in one topic but more new posts. Don't get me wrong, I would hate for things to get stagnant, but there is only so much time one has to peel back the layers of comments to get to the one you really wanted to reply to. I am still trying to get back to JWI on the 1914 topic! Pity we don't get paid for this....

@The Librarian I wonder, is there away where each individual member could flag comments of choice? And that way it would be easier to find and reply to at a later time?

[Arauna]

32 minutes ago, César Chávez said:

What did the U.N. do between 1999-2010? Defamation of religion. What was primary reason, Islam.

Just a point of interest.  Islam countries have made inroads into UN. Woman's rights and human rights council are now run by Islamic countries who vote each other in..... things have changed.

The jew-hate in the UN and EU countries is a direct result of Islamic influence. Quran and Hadith stipulates that all Jews will be killed.  Hence the incomprehensible radical left and Islam's love affair - pushed by UN.

[Arauna]

14 hours ago, JW Insider said:

makes more sense that it is simply "false religion

An empire rules over others. Religion has ruled over hearts and minds of people for thousands of years and dominated their lives until modern enlightenment and Darwinism came along. Now religion still negotiates deals like the one for May 2020 but Babylon the great is losing its waters it is sitting on.

14 hours ago, JW Insider said:

At present, they have no such power to do anything like that. If they did, we already know it would be completely ignored, at least under current world circumstances.

Not true. 176 countries have signed the 3 agreements that put them under UN policies.  AGENDA 21, Agenda 2030 and UN migrant compact 2018.  Since the time of George Bush the G20 countries have been working towards UN goals as well as billionaires - who use their foundations to donate funds to projects that further UN goals. G Soros, Bill Gates, etc etc. NGOs are already I infiltrated in most countries to fulfill the environmental goals of the UN. It is just a matter of time until the UN and its coalitions start to rule openly.  When their policies are openly the only ones accepted everywhere.

UNESCO is pushing the new young child sex education onto every school in EU, USA, Africa, canada, Australia, NZ, UK etc. Countries who do not play ball get no funding. In my estimation the image of the beast is already ruling underneath everything.... it us just a matter of time now... They will replace the usual religious rules with a new world morality which includes LGBTQ.  If you do not accept this you will be seen as a rebel or radical.

1 hour ago, César Chávez said:

How can the U.N. carry the message, by implementing other false religions in their

The Baha'I religion has an office at the UN - they believe all religions lead to the one true God.  The other religion which carries weight at UN is theosofists (spiritistic origins).  Mrs rooseveldt read their creed at the inauguration of the UN. 

They will say there is only one God and he can be served by all religions - they will promote interfaith and the new set of moral rules as prescribed by UN. 

[The Librarian]

9 hours ago, Anna said:

@The Librarian I wonder, is there away where each individual member could flag comments of choice? And that way it would be easier to find and reply to at a later time?

@admin ☝️

[admin]

Just now, The Librarian said:

@admin ☝️

I will have to think about this one. Thanks for passing along the idea.

[Arauna]

On 1/17/2020 at 9:12 AM, JW Insider said:

God to put this thought into their hearts, then there is no need to speculate at all about the U.N.

The harlot is riding the beast - which may be happening soon in a more intense way when religion takes the initiative to promote UN policies and ideas about one religion and the new morality.

True, the "image of the beast" will turn against her when God puts it into their heart at the right time.... but to watch the relationship develop as indicated in the bible is interesting. No-one will suspect her fall from grace when she is riding high.

On 1/17/2020 at 9:12 AM, JW Insider said:

that such a message could be carried out with any effect by the U.N. then we are contradicting Jesus' words that the end can come as a sudden surprise at any time.

The surprise is that people believe the world authorities and trust in human institutions.  These institutions are going ahead with their world plans and all under satans control are buying into the propaganda from these trusted organizations which is  leading to Armageddon. It will be shock - not surprise.  However, we are informed - no surprise for us! 

On 1/17/2020 at 9:12 AM, JW Insider said:

backwater" forum where only about three dozen persons ever speak up about such issues, and where two dozen of them are probably you.

Yes, few here on the backwater forum but we can discuss and compare what we see in the world.  Nothing wrong with that. People can see something here and do their own research. 

[JW Insider]

12 hours ago, César Chávez said:

At least you have made a change about, being convinced that Jesus was made king in AD33

Jesus was not just anointed in 29 and ruling as king by 33, he was also already called "king of kings." As you already know, I'm sure, there is no scripture or prophecy that depicts Jesus waiting to be made king in 1914.

(1 Timothy 6:13-16) . . .Before God, who preserves all things alive, and Christ Jesus, who as a witness made the fine public declaration before Pontius Pilate, I give you orders 14 to observe the commandment in a spotless and irreprehensible way until the manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which the happy and only Potentate will show in its own appointed times. He is the King of those who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords, 16 the one alone having immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal might.. . .

I'm not going to say that the scriptures are lying when they say that Jesus had been made king in the first century. I imagine that if you could be transported back in time to the first century and heard these Bible writers saying the following, you would be saying: "No! No! Jesus doesn't deserve all this honor. Stop referring to Jesus as King." Stop repeating scriptures like the one above, or like the title that Revelation gives Jesus:

(Revelation 17:14) . . .because he is Lord of lords and King of kings, the Lamb will conquer them. . .

(Acts 2:34-36) . . .“Sit at my right hand 35 until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”’ 36 Therefore, let all the house of Israel know for a certainty that God made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you executed on a stake.”

(1 Corinthians 15:25) . . .For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet.

(Matthew 28:18) 18 Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.

(Revelation 1:5) . . .and from Jesus Christ, “the Faithful Witness,” “the firstborn from the dead,” and “the Ruler of the kings of the earth.”. . .

(Philippians 2:9, 10) 9 For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, 10 so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend—of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground. . .

(Ephesians 1:20, 21) 20 which he exercised toward Christ when he raised him up from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above every government and authority and power and lordship and every name that is named, not only in this system of things but also in that to come.

I can imagine you arguing with Paul, saying that he should stop saying that when Jesus was raised from the dead that he was already placed far above every government and authority and power and lordship, because that was the same as saying that he was given a name even higher than kings and emperors and Caesars. You might argue to Paul that he should stop saying such things, because then Paul himself is saying that Jesus is a king. Surely, Jesus was just joking when he told Pilate that the governor himself was saying that he was a king. Surely the sign on the stake was wrong when it claimed that Jesus had said he was a king. Perhaps you would argue against the title Christ, too. Because Christ was the same as saying he was the Messiah: the Messianic king.

(Mark 15:32) . . .Let the Christ, the King of Israel, now come down off the torture stake, . . .

(Luke 23:2, 3) . . .and saying he himself is Christ a king.” 3 Now Pilate asked him the question: “Are you the King of the Jews?” In answer he said: “You yourself are saying it.”

(Luke 23:35-38) . . .let him save himself if he is the Christ of God, the Chosen One.” 36 Even the soldiers mocked him, coming up and offering him sour wine 37 and saying: “If you are the King of the Jews, save yourself.” 38 There was also an inscription over him: “This is the King of the Jews.”

12 hours ago, César Chávez said:

and prophecy was completed in AD70

Prophecy was not completed in 70. But we do know that in the first century Jesus said that his disciples should stop concerning themselves with chronology.

54 minutes ago, Arauna said:

The harlot is riding the beast - which may be happening soon in a more intense way when religion takes the initiative to promote UN policies and ideas about one religion and the new morality.

This is all very possible, and one way or another these scriptures will be fulfilled. But we must watch out for hubris and presumptuousness when we try to pretend that we absolutely know it must happen through a specific agency on earth. Jehovah may fulfill his word by making rocks cry out if necessary. We should keep in mind that these are very interesting and sometimes reasonable interpretations, but they are still just interpretations. It's very haughty to look at a track record that has failed on every single prophetic prediction so far, and then claim that we must be right on this particular future prediction.

You probably know that there are several religions in Christendom that believe we must watch the United Nations for fulfillments of several Bible prophecies and end-time events. There area also several conspiratorial crackpots who discuss the UN and declare exaggerated claims for the purpose of fearmongering for followers. There is a lot that appears to be "truth" about the UN from various "trustworthy" sources that claim to be directly quoting UN documents. But when you take the time to look at the actual documents they are interpreting, you realize that it's built on half-truths or less.

[Arauna]

On 1/17/2020 at 8:49 AM, César Chávez said:

Those are the ones falsifying the actual intent of Christ in order for the POPE to continue his dominance just as the players

Yes - christendom has been a major player in promoting falsehood regarding the kingdom of christ. It has had its tentacles in most major political events and wars and now again promoting UN policies as the only solution to mankind to bring unity and peace! 

52 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

(Mark 15:32) . . .Let the Christ, the King of Israel, now come down off the torture stake, . . .

This refers to the fact that the bible promised a future king. Jesus was not yet king while on the torture stake.

53 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

But we do know that in the first century Jesus said that his disciples should stop concerning themselves with chronology.

I think the word you meant was genealogy.  I do not debate about this (as the bible days) but I believe it is important to know when you speak to a jew or Muslim or a hindu to prove that the bible is the word of God because of its consistency in fulfillment of prophecy. The genealogy is important to know. Why did god then insert it in the bible? He could have left it out..... but arguments among Christian's about it serves no purpose.

While genealogy is close to chronology - God would have left it out of the bible if it was not worth investigating.

Same with 1914 - important to show continuity in the bible and consistency in time-line and prophecy.  Why did god then mention the "time" of the gentiles if he (at the right time) did not want us to wonder what it would mean?

The book Daniel was sealed up till the time was right to be revealed:   

Daniel 12: "“As for you, Daniel, keep the words secret, and seal up the book until the time of the end. Many will rove about, and the true knowledge will become abundant.”      Then he said: “Go, Daniel, because the words are to be kept secret and sealed up until the time of the end.  10 Many will cleanse themselves and whiten themselves and will be refined. And the wicked ones will act wickedly, and none of the wicked will understand; but those having insight will understand. 11 "

Those having insight will understand..... 

[Arauna]

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

actual documents they are interpreting, you

There is no 'interpreting' some of the words. They are straight forward. ie.People who write against immigrants must be ' retrained.'.... .... reporters cannot get employment if they do not follow these policies. 

The UN  sex education promoted by UN  - no opposition tolerated. Parents barred when they complain. Rules are becoming draconian.  

Most churches think the mark of the beast is computer chips and AI chips which we all soon may have to wear to make financial transactions- which will be part of surveillance.  But they still believe in human political and religious institutions to fix all problems.  They are not  getting out Babylon or the beast. So they still will get the mark when they support some faction of the beast - be it right or left.

Yes I understand your caution and say we can be presumptuous.... but there are too many signs now to ignore.  The build up in China and Russia (agreements in oil, gas, satellites, acquisition of minerals and assets - ports, airports and influence etc). US chaos and acrimony in government and foreign enemy  funding of organizations in the US that is out of control ..... I can go on and on about Russia's allies expanding into the Mediterranean... it is unprecedented stuff.  Most witnesses I know still think the UN has no teeth..... which is a fallacy. It is not depicted as an eighth head of the beast .... it is an "image of the beast" a " reflection" of the beast.

Its policies are everywhere you go. When I came to Rep of Georgia I immediately knew the EU is active here.  Just by looking at Agenda 21 features being completed. 

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

we absolutely know it must happen through a specific agency on earth.

The bible tells us the "image of the beast" will do certain things.  So it is not unbiblical to investigate the UN.

Most conservative organizations oppose the UN agenda because they are fighting for autonomy to keep independence and closed borders - not because they believe it will fulfill bible prophecy.  If they cared for bible prophecy and understood the beast - they would get out if religion and politics.

[TrueTomHarley]

5 hours ago, JW Insider said:

 a track record that has failed on every single prophetic prediction so far, and then claim that we must be right on this particular future prediction.

I was always impressed that the wild beast goes into the abyss, then comes out again, and that Knorr seemed to anticipate it.

I had two close friends who both gave me a hard time about the UN when I became a Witness. It seemed so weird to them and they went on and on about it. Being new, I didn’t understand it backwards and forwards myself, but I finally told them that it was just a footnote, not a huge deal, and that they should give it a rest.

The circuit overseer was to visit our congregation and there was to be a special slide presentation. I invited my friends and gave them to understand that, in view of their giving me nothing but grief about the new faith, if they attended this one meeting I would consider that they had given it a fair shake and would thereafter shut up about it. They came and were shoehorned into a crowded Kingdom Hall. All was going well, and I was happy that they was receiving ‘a witness,’ but toward the end of the presentation a slide displayed the U.N. building rent in two by a lightning bolt from heaven! an image that I had never seen before and do not think I have seen since.

I didn’t entirely keep my end of the bargain, never to speak of it again, but I was more subdued, to be sure.

[Arauna]

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

slide displayed the U.N. building rent in two by a lightning

Quite graphic. The children's books also had a picture of an earthquake with the earth opening up and building falling in.