They're better as a group, than they are individually - (observations from the outside)

[Matthew9969]

Why would Jehovah send the holy spirit to an organization that would reject him like the govern body has?

[xero]

Just now, Matthew9969 said:

Why would Jehovah send the holy spirit to an organization that would reject him like the govern body has?

You've judged that they have, and then argue as if you've made your point which you haven't. One wonders why you continue to persist in your failure to accept that this is what you're doing?

[Witness]

10 hours ago, xero said:

Of course rather than focusing on their own offensive, disgusting behavior from Jehovah's standards, they presume to be clean. In this presumption they are the filthiest of them all and the most disgusting.

 

You seem to emulate the opinion of your leader, Tony Morris:

“The final end of God’s enemies.  It can be very encouraging, albeit sobering…(Ps 37:20) Since they’re Jehovahs enemies, and Jehovah is our best friend, that means they’re our enemies. How we look forward to these enemies of Jehovah, our enemies vanishing like smoke.   

Fire would be a suitable means of eliminating such refuse.  What the fire would not consume the maggots would.  Now, I don’t know if you know much about maggots, you see a whole bunch of them…it’s not a pleasant sight; but what a fitting picture of the final end of all of God’s enemies. 

Sobering yet something we look forward to.

…they’re finally gonna be gone, all these despicable enemies that have just reproached Jehovah’s name, destroyed, never ever to live again.  Now its not that we rejoice in someone’s death, but when it comes to God’s enemies, finally, they’re out of the way…especially these despicable apostates who at one point had dedicated their life to God and then they joined forces with Satan the devil, the chief apostate of all time.” 

The match trick followed.  His words slurred a few times during his speech.   I'm sure there's a very valid reason for that.   Perhaps he should take your advice and focus on his own offensive, disgusting behavior deviating from God's standards, presuming to be clean and already "saved", I'll add.  

I do believe he means those  who “at one point” had dedicated their lives to the organization.  Yet, it is very true, once many people are done with the Wt., they become atheists.  They had enough of oppressive religion built on lies.  

[Matthew9969]

On 3/15/2021 at 1:39 PM, xero said:

You've judged that they have, and then argue as if you've made your point which you haven't. One wonders why you continue to persist in your failure to accept that this is what you're doing?

I'm not judging, this is one of your beliefs right out of your publications.

[xero]

29 minutes ago, Matthew9969 said:

I'm not judging, this is one of your beliefs right out of your publications.

I don't believe publications, I read them and make up my own mind. The publications themselves along with the publishers don't claim to be prophets. It's opposers who get hung up on punctuation because they don't get that it's all wheat and weeds until the harvest. Opposers think it should all be wheat. But then again they reject the bible too.

This is the same style of argument you see in politics. Like say you might say that you're a democrat, and I say "So you're the party of slavery!" and then you say "I don't believe that!" and I say "Yeah, well all the slave holders were democrats. Republicans were the ones who opposed slavery."

Thus someone quotes C. T. Russell or some other older pub.

 

 

 

[Witness]

3 hours ago, xero said:

The publications themselves along with the publishers don't claim to be prophets.

The have made that claim...

"So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come?
IDENTIFYING THE "PROPHET"
These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet?
... This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian witnesses.
... Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a "prophet" of God. It is another thing to prove it. The only way that this can be done is to review the record. Thus this group of anointed followers of Jesus Christ, doing a work in Christendom paralleling Ezekiel's work among the Jews, were manifestly the modern-day Ezekiel, the "prophet" commissioned by Jehovah to declare the good news of God's Messianic kingdom and to give warning to Christendom." Wt. 1972 Apr 1 pp.197-199 'They Shall Know that a Prophet Was Among Them'

Think about it, you come from a long line of prophets!  They must have been gearing up for **1975** when this was written, which is probably why they don't make that claim today. 

Luke 21:8 "He said: “Look out that YOU are not misled; for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘**The due time** has approached.’ Do not go after them."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

11 hours ago, xero said:

Thus someone quotes C. T. Russell or some other older pub.

 

Your illustration tells me this: Democrats, Republicans, Russellites, Rutherfords, Jehovah's Witnesses, Catholics, etc. - - they were all good and bad and they are like that today.

[Anna]

23 hours ago, Witness said:

"prophet"

There is a reason why prophet is in quotation marks.

[xero]

15 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Your illustration tells me this: Democrats, Republicans, Russellites, Rutherfords, Jehovah's Witnesses, Catholics, etc. - - they were all good and bad and they are like that today.

Right. It's all been wheat and weeds until the angels start reaping. Of course YOU as an individual absolutely are judged if you don't try your best to follow and admit to following your God given conscience. Lets take a Catholic who is sincere. He could sincerely be wrong (or right), but if wrong the scriptures say he will be beaten with fewer strokes. "⁴⁸  But the one who did not understand and yet did things deserving of strokes will be beaten with few. " - Luke 12:48.

So take me. I absolutely know that God exists. I absolutely know that the Bible is the word of God. I absolutely know God is NOT a trinity, that there is no immortal soul, that hell is NOT a place of eternal torment. I know that fornication is wrong, along with homosexuality, murder and a number of other things. If I go to some church or synagogue or mosque or whatever and these people are teaching these lies and even doing a lot of these immoral things, then I'm willfully placing myself is a bad situation and I deserve whatever beatings come my way, even annihilation. (never mind that the only thing that's lawful for me is for me to be dead as I'm a sinner and have absolutely no right to life).

Of course I don't say ANY are good. Jesus himself said no one was good but God. So by that none are "good". But I know that's not what you're after here. But you do correctly get that there are in fact nominal Christians and some call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses and they aren't "good" or even "right". However I suspect that these are quite few and inconsistent if these are bad as it's pretty darn hard to keep evil under wraps for long. The truth is that anyone who is obviously evil can't keep that to himself for long.

Looking at JW's and asking if there is or are incentives to doing wrong, or promulgating falsehoods, you'd be hard pressed as it's easier to do this as an independent baptist, or non-denominational sort of person.

Have JW's gotten things wrong? Yes. What things are wrong now? You decide. How would you go about "weeding" even though it's not your job to do that? Show me scriptures which show that true Christians are going to get it right and get it right all the time. You can't because those scriptures don't exist.

We have a lot of people who get hung up on this or that piddly minnow of a fault which to them is like sand in their eye, and sure! A grain of sand in your eye can hurt. Until you get it out. Sometimes you realize that YOU put that sand grain in your own darn eye and blamed the organization that it didn't make it impossible for grains of sand to exist. When you do, you realize that maybe if you'd done something differently you wouldn't have gone down the path you went down, and now you have to figure out how to get back. Question is - are you humble enough to do it?

So yeah. Wheat and Weeds. Doesn't mean that no organization isn't better than or used more by Jehovah than another, because I think JW's do a pretty good job even though they do have grains of sand flying here and there and the more you know about the scriptures head-wise the more you know that people have a lot of ideas in their heads that just aint so scripturally. But the question is, "Did Jehovah pick you or me to straighten everyone out?" - probably not. Sometimes it's right to be wrong or even let yourself be wronged to keep the peace. (as annoying as that might be).

I think conscience is a thing people feel they need to share with everyone, like a bumper sticker. It isn't. Your conscience is your own. The organization doesn't ask that you abandon your conscience even though some might say that if they can't blurt out every idea they have at the Watchtower Study w/o self-censoring then they aren't "free" and the organization is censoring and crushing their conscience. Is it? Do you insist that everyone must share your thoughts? Didn't the scriptures say that if you keep asking and knocking it will be opened "TO YOU"? So why do you insist that others MUST look at and see everything that you in your own peculiar way have decided is an improvement on scriptural understanding?

This is a defect of opposers, though they don't see it that way. They don't get that IF Jehovah has shared some awesome little secret w/them then maybe they should keep it to themselves. Maybe it isn't an awesome little secret and maybe it's not Jehovah who has shared this delicacy w/them. Maybe it's just them being weird.

Always good to "not think more of yourself than is necessary to think".

[Witness]

1 hour ago, Anna said:

There is a reason why prophet is in quotation marks.

And what would that be?  Is it because...This “prophet” is an organization of people, led by false prophets?

 

Definition:  “a person who predicts the future- a prophet of doom”

“The definition of a prophet is someone who teaches or spreads the word of God, or is someone who claims to make predictions about what will happen in the future”

"True, there have been those in times past who predicted an "end to the world," even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The "end" did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing? Missing from such people were God's truths and the evidence that he was guiding and using them." Awake! 1968 Oct 8 p.23

Anyone who prophesies falsely is a false prophet; thus your organization and its leaders are false prophets, even still.  

 

 

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

13 hours ago, Anna said:

There is a reason why prophet is in quotation marks.

Only because the Watchtower was using it to mean them as a group of people, rather than an individual. 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

12 hours ago, xero said:

So take me. I absolutely know that God exists. I absolutely know that the Bible is the word of God. I absolutely know God is NOT a trinity, that there is no immortal soul, that hell is NOT a place of eternal torment. I know that fornication is wrong, along with homosexuality, murder and a number of other things. If I go to some church or synagogue or mosque or whatever and these people are teaching these lies and even doing a lot of these immoral things, then I'm willfully placing myself is a bad situation and I deserve whatever beatings come my way, even annihilation. (never mind that the only thing that's lawful for me is for me to be dead as I'm a sinner and have absolutely no right to life).

Very well said xero.  So by going to a Kingdom Hall and more importantly doing the door to door pedaling of the Watchtower magazine you are "willfully placing yourself is a bad situation and you deserve whatever beatings come your way, even annihilation". 

I'm glad you realise those things, so you will have no excuse come Judgement time.