144,000

[Evacuated]

16 hours ago, John Houston said:

A lot of malarkey.

Malarkey: American English, of unknown origin; perhaps from Greek μαλακία (malakía, “stupidity, idiocy, nonsense, bullshit”).

This word always makes me laugh.

This whole subject is another of those areas strong on detail but thin on fact. It seems that some are almost obsessed over identifying who is or who isn't anointed and also get rather bogged down in the murky waters of "times and seasons" as they relate to the rather specific time periods in Daniel and the Revelation.

In my limited experience, most of those I have known with the heavenly hope have little doubt over it, and don't actually shout about it. I can see the necessity to make such information public however in the face of Christendom's apostasy and the need to preach the current kngdom message. 

I never entertained such a belief myself, even when educated as RC, and apart from a brief period of extra-terrestrial notions during a pre-"truth", pyschadelic era which I no longer remember, I have always had my feet very firmly planted on terra firma.

Discovering the Bible teaching that there would be two destinies for mankind was pretty reassuring. Understanding that everlasting life on earth was actually a God-given prospect was enlightening to say the least. Considering that there would come a time when a unique group of prospective, earth-destined, Armageddon survivors would appear on the world scene at a time close to that event, and that individuals with both hopes would "overlap" (there's a contraversial word) and share space with each other on earth for a while was pretty exciting. Over time, I came to realise that my personal inclusion in that post Armageddon population, (given God's approval of course), could be either by survival or resurrection, depending on time and unforseen circumstance. This was a welcome, albeit sobering element to the rather euphoric notion of imminent deliverance.  

It seems pretty clear that the majority of Jehovah's servants since the time of Abel have entertained the prospect of living forever on earth. A small number since Pentecost 36CE have been personally invited to go to heaven for a specific purpose, a number as small as 144,000 of chosen, tried and tested individuals, destined to rule with Christ in heaven itself.

Of the rest of the population since Abel, apart from those with a genuine heavenly calling, there is no difference between the interim destiny of Jehovah's servants and the vast majority those who were not, as made clear at Acts 24:15.

Pe-Israelite, there were many worshipers of Jehovah, some we know, some we don't. During the time of the Israelite nation, it was quite possible for people of the nations to join with Israelites in the worship of Jehovah as the record makes clear, and although they could have an unrestricted relationship with the true God according to the parameters of the time, they were restricted as to cetrain privileges and prospects, many of which they may well have had a limited perception given the appalling lack of spirituality amongst Jehovah's named people at times.

So, on the basis of these sketchy details, it seems that to suggest that since the first Century there would be (hundreds of) thousands drawn to Jehovah on the basis of a genuine heavenly hope to which they then proved unfaithful is, quite frankly, mularkey.

Despite the attempts of false Christianity to obscure the Bible's message, individuals were irrepressible in their loyalty to what they perceived of the message of scripture. Some like Wycliffe and Tyndale we know by name. There must have been many we do not. 

With the heavenly hope held out with little alternative over centuries, it is no wonder that many who embraced the scriptures would profess this even in the more scripturally post-Reformation enlightened days, but to suggest that the majority of these, right down to the 20th Century were actually genuine anointed and destined for Gehenna due to their apparent unfaithfulness is more...mularky! They were just God-fearing folk with wrong ideas. And Lord knows we have had a few of these even amongst genuine anointed ones in more recent times.

I have met genuine Christians who were asociated with the Bible Students prior to 1935. They uncomfortably partook of the emblems prior to understanding the significance of Revelation 7:9-10, because there seemed to be no alternative. They were greatly relieved to learn that there was an earthly destiny held out to active worshippers associated with the congregation and not just something to be achieved by non Christians through a resurrection, something apparently denied if you knew you were a Christian, but entertained a heavenly calling inappropriately.

So long and short of it for me until proved otherwise is that many have been drawn to Jehovah through the centuries, including the Christian era. Some have had specific enlightenment into God's purposes and have been greatly privileged in His service to the benefit of others. All faithful anointed are included in this group, despite their small number of only 144,000. But there have been countless others known only to Jehovah who have been attracted to whatever truth was available at the time and have faithfully held to whatever their perception of it was.

Interestingly, many who thought they were possibly of the "great crowd" were actually not. They have died and are in the same postion of any other servants of Jehovah since Abel, but currently dead. Was it not holy spirit that revealed their destiny to them? And yet they are not deemed "unfaithful" are they?

As for those intriguing time periods? I'm waiting for a bit more clarity there.

Malarkey!  I love that word! ?

[JW Insider]

4 hours ago, Gone Away said:

Malarkey: American English, of unknown origin; perhaps from Greek μαλακία (malakía, “stupidity, idiocy, nonsense . . .

Curious that the first primary public use of the word as reported in OED was spelled "malaky" which is very much like your suggested Greek etymology. OED says 1929 by J.P.McEvoy. It reminded me of the book of Malachi which has a different meaning, of course:

*** Rbi8 Malachi ***

• Meaning “My Messenger (Angel).” Heb., Mal·ʼa·khiʹ; Gr., Ma·la·khiʹas; Lat., Ma·laʹchi. See 3:1 ftn, “Messenger.”

Of course, with the Biblical Malachi, the Greek is actually "malakhi[as]" instead of malakia because it uses a "chi" instead of a "kappa" for the "k" sound. So of course there is no reason to think it could have been based on the Bible book of Malachi.

 

. . . . Unless it was because people who focused too much on Malachi were the kind who . . . .wait for it..... IGNORE AMOS*. [Click here for the drum sound rimshot]

*ignoramus, n. 2.2 An ignorant person.

 

 

[Space Merchant]

John, if there is only 144,000 seats to the house party and those seats are for those invited, don't expect to enter and seat at the seat of which you are not suppose to be sitting at for you haven't been invited.

 

That being said, be happy that Eternal Life is a possibility.