What's going on in Ukraine 🇺🇦???

[Thinking]

11 hours ago, Arauna said:

Interesting.....  I will watch out for this development in India in the news reports.  I do know that Putin has already informed PM Mohdi that some of the Indian students, who were studying in Ukraine, have been collected and are being used as human shields.  Apparently they have 5 universities which specialize in foreign students... from Africa and India. 

I would like to add that since JWs do not take up arms or defend themselves they most  probably will be termed as having ' bystander effect'.  The reason being that Jehovah says : ¹³  Then Moses said to the people: “Do not be afraid. Stand firm and see the salvation of Jehovah that he will perform for you today. 

Because we follow the instruction in the bible and carry no arms the coalition of nations will come up against the people of God because it seems as if they have no protection and can be plundered.

Ezekiel 38: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: “On that day when my people Israel are dwelling in security, will you not know it?q ¹⁵  You will come from your place, from the remotest parts of the north,r you and many peoples with you, all of them riding on horses, a great assembly, a vast army.

I will bring my judgment against him* with pestilencey and bloodshed; and I will rain down a torrential downpour and hailstonesz and firea and sulfurb on him and on his troops and on the many peoples with him.c ²³  And I will certainly magnify myself and sanctify myself and make myself known before the eyes of many nations; and they will have to know that I am Jehovah.’

 

I did not know that about the Indian people…I shudder to think what they will do with the brothers that never got out..

[Witness]

20 hours ago, Witness said:

JW leaders tend to dismiss parables, as just “stories”.  They invalidate the words of Jesus by saying they are simply “warnings” if the parable doesn’t follow their manmade doctrine.  They change scriptures to read their way, to hide the connection to truth.

 

16 hours ago, Dmitar said:

This is hilarious, since you've been disparaging the Watchtower leaders for thinking parables are not stories and God guides the hands of those approved.

If you are boasting to everyone in the world that you are the "faithful and discreet slave" sent by Jesus, absorbing that title BEFORE he returns to identify that slave (Matt 25:19-21), what would you do to preserve your perceived power over the rest of God’s anointed ones – over God’s spiritual house? (Eph 2:20-22) You would downplay all possibility of a JW assuming that you could become the evil slave in Christ’s parable. Once they put it in writing, it becomes “law” - truth.  The GB had it all planned out.  Why? To be sure that no one will assume the title for themselves, as they have. Although, it has backfired, because it has put the GB in the position of the only anointed one that can absorb the identity of the evil slave. 

In view of the foregoing, what may we conclude? Was Jesus saying that many of his anointed servants would prove unfaithful and need to be replaced? No. Remember, he had just warned his “faithful and discreet slave” never to turn into an evil slave. That did not mean that he expected such an outcome.  wt 15/3/15 p. 16

Truly, it is amazing that the GB can read the mind of Christ.  They not only KNOW that they are the faithful slave over God's household before he tells them so, they also KNOW that the parable is "just a warning".  

Woe to those who go to great lengths
to hide their plans from the Lord.
They do their works in the dark,
and say, “Who sees us? Who knows us?”

You have turned things around,
as if the potter were the same as the clay.
How can what is made say about its maker,
“He didn’t make me”?
How can what is formed
say about the one who formed it,
“He doesn’t understand what he’s doing”?  Isa 29:15,16

[Dmitar]

4 hours ago, Witness said:

Truly, it is amazing that the GB can read the mind of Christ. 

Wouldn't this imply you can read the mind of Christ? It would also go toward how you are boasting, don't you think?  What do you think Romans 8:9 is administering?

4 hours ago, Witness said:

They not only KNOW that they are the faithful slave over God's household before he tells them so, they also KNOW that the parable is "just a warning".  

Once again  witness. Isn't that what you are doing? Didn't you "warn" me in another thread? What was that warning about? What is your reason to sound the alarm here with so much frequency? Do you believe God has given you some kind of insight, even though you don't accept his commandments? Reasoning, Logic, Wisdom, Rationale at some point needs to be part of your thinking.

Forget about those woeful fools here that call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses, they don't matter. They are a disgrace to God's sanctification. But if you want to reach out to people, make it in the spirit of Christ. Change your attitude and rhetoric. 

[Dmitar]

Timothy (Phil. 2:19-24)

 

He was a blessing to Paul and to his own church, and he is also a blessing to us today! He proves to us that the joyful life is the life of sacrifice and service, that the submissive mind really does work. He and Timothy together encourage us to submit ourselves to the Lord, and to one another, in the Spirit of Christ. Christ is the Pattern we follow. Paul shows us the power (Phil 4:12-19); and Timothy and Epaphroditus are the proof that this mind really works.

 

Will you permit the Spirit to reproduce "the mind of Christ" in you?

[Witness]

17 hours ago, Dmitar said:

Timothy (Phil. 2:19-24)

 

He was a blessing to Paul and to his own church, and he is also a blessing to us today! He proves to us that the joyful life is the life of sacrifice and service, that the submissive mind really does work. He and Timothy together encourage us to submit ourselves to the Lord, and to one another, in the Spirit of Christ. Christ is the Pattern we follow. Paul shows us the power (Phil 4:12-19); and Timothy and Epaphroditus are the proof that this mind really works.

 

Will you permit the Spirit to reproduce "the mind of Christ" in you?

Having the mind of Christ does not mean we know every thought that Jesus has, especially concerning ourselves.  He is our judge, so why can we judge ourselves as the GB has, by saying they are “faithful and discreet” and demand obedience to their word?    As your quote says, Jesus is the pattern we follow in defense of truth. This is how we have the mind of Christ. If we listen to the folly of men, we have the mind of fools!  (Prov 18:2)

Those who are part of the anointed Body of Christ, listen to our Head, Jesus.  How?  By respecting his word,  by asking for understanding instead of assuming we can make our own thoughts work. Don’t you see that pattern happening over and over with the GB doctrine?  They don’t listen to Jesus, which is extremely apparent from their failed record of teachings.  (Eph 5:15)

What is Jesus saying to the anointed ones? 

 ^“If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you want and it will be done for you. ⁸ My Father is glorified by this: that you produce much fruit and prove to be my disciples.

This “fruit” must LAST, not change every few years:

John 15:16 – “You did not choose me, but I chose you. I appointed you to go and produce fruit and that your fruit should remain, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he will give you.”

You were just given contradictive “fruit” during the Annual meeting.  It had to with the GB and apparently all anointed in the organization being taken up to heaven right before Armageddon.  It was stated that this is a different teaching than 10 years ago. 

S. Herd said:  “We understand now that all of Christ’s anointed brothers will be in heaven with him before Armageddon starts. That’s the understanding that we have today.” 

If this war escalates into what appears as Wt’s Armageddon, (even though they have not announced the great tribulation, as far as I know),  and the GB are still here, what then?  Do you see how he left a way out for further “understanding”, by saying “today”, they have this new understanding?  Today’s teaching will not be tomorrow’s teaching/“fruit”.  Thus….they have been proven NOT to be Christ’s disciples. 

 I think you need to ask yourself just who you are defending; men, or Jesus?  There seems to be a a side of you that wants to be close to God and Christ, and another side that balks at the word of God, at the word of Jesus Christ. 

“Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and don’t do the things I say? ⁴⁷ I will show you what someone is like who comes to me, hears my words, and acts on them: ⁴⁸ He is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid the foundation on the rock. When the flood came, the river crashed against that house and couldn’t shake it, because it was well built. ⁴⁹ But the one who hears and does not act is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. The river crashed against it, and immediately it collapsed. And the destruction of that house was great.” Luke 6:46-49

Did you “hear” what Jesus said about those who prove to be his disciples, producing “fruit”/teachings that LAST - fruit that is not discarded, not removed, but REMAINS. 

“I am the vine; you are the branches. The one who remains in me and I in him produces much fruit, because you can do NOTHING without me.  John 15:5

Can you identify which piece of fruit was sourced in Jesus, that Herd spoke about in his talk – the teaching ten years ago, or the teaching “today”?  What will tomorrow bring if the teaching is altered?  Did ANY of these teachings come from Jesus?  No, because they DO NOT REMAIN.

Did you “hear” that those who do not remain in the Spirit of Christ cannot do “anything”, thus proving they are NOT his disciples, let alone a “faithful and discreet slave" assigned to feed the household of God?

 

Allen, let go of false teachings, and rely totally on the Father and the Son.  Let go of men who do not know their right hand from their left.  Isa 44:20

 

 

 

 

[Dmitar]

4 hours ago, Witness said:

Having the mind of Christ does not mean we know every thought that Jesus has, especially concerning ourselves.  He is our judge, so why can we judge ourselves as the GB has, by saying they are “faithful and discreet” and demand obedience to their word?

This is every Christian's responsibility to judge ourselves in the conduct we live our Christian life. Remember, we are the imperfect ones. However, your rhetoric is still wrong in thinking the GB "demand" obedience to them. They "expect" just like they expect it of themselves to be faithful and loyal to God through his words. 

God DEMANDS those that are giving out spiritual food regardless of denomination be "representative" of that Wise and Faithful Slave. With the Watchtower organization, that responsibility falls under those found in Acts 6:3. In the Catholic organization, the POPE has that responsibility. Since you listen to "Pearl", she is delegating that responsibility.

Who is demonstrating to have the mindset of Christ? Certainly, you won't find anyone here among these Jehovah's Witnesses. They rule themselves just like you do.

4 hours ago, Witness said:

Those who are part of the anointed Body of Christ, listen to our Head, Jesus.  How?  By respecting his word,  by asking for understanding instead of assuming we can make our own thoughts work. Don’t you see that pattern happening over and over with the GB doctrine?

How is going against scripture helping your thoughts as a Christian? Those men that you say are demanding, are not demanding anything, but showing their fellow servants how to be good Christians by their example.

24:45, 51

Vers. 45, 51. Who, then, is that faithful and wise servant. --

I. The PARTICULAR RELATION in which we are here represented as standing to the one that is above us.

II. The representation that is here given of that ATTITUDE in which the servant is found who is obedient to his Master. There are terms used particularly descriptive of the conduct of the individual.

1. Fidelity.

2. Wisdom is associated with faithfulness -- "faithful and wise."

3. Habitual and persevering continuance in well-doing.

III. The BLESSEDNESS which is included in this benediction of the Master.

1. Blessed at the appearance of Christ, also while he lives, in his present activity.

2. Positive reward.

3. Contrast the deception of the evil servant.

(T. Binney, D. D.)

If other denominations can see that responsibility, why can't you?

4 hours ago, Witness said:

If this war escalates into what appears as Wt’s Armageddon, (even though they have not announced the great tribulation, as far as I know),  and the GB are still here, what then?  Do you see how he left a way out for further “understanding”, by saying “today”, they have this new understanding?  Today’s teaching will not be tomorrow’s teaching/“fruit”.  Thus….they have been proven NOT to be Christ’s disciples. 

This just means what it means, you don't understand "prophecy" as indicated. NO ONE HERE UNDERSTANDS PROPHECY.  This particular room (forum) has become a room of speculation.

Do you honestly "believe" Pastor Russell was thinking about World War 1 in 1914? NO! He was thinking of the "Harvest Age" that had begun in 1874 and ended in 1914. It is the foolishness of Jehovah's Witnesses and former Jehovah's Witnesses that think he made that specific prediction.

Pastor Russell, physically, saw the positive impact his ministry was having. People only read what they think will win an argument, instead of seeing the facts for what they really are.

: page 250
THE HARVEST AND GENTILE TIMES.
QUESTION.--If the "Times of the Gentiles" can be changed as suggested in the July TOWER, so that the anarchy will follow 1914 A.D., instead of preceding it, might not similar changes be made in respect to all the various lines of prophetic time-proof set forth in MILLENNIAL DAWN, Vols. II. and III?

Answer.--You are entirely in error. Not a figure, not a date, not a prophecy is in any sense or degree affected by the article to which you refer. Indeed the harmony and unity of the whole is the more fully demonstrated. Read again the article you refer to, "Universal Anarchy, etc." (July 1 issue), and you surely will see this. If it is not apparent to you upon a further study let us know the particular point of your difficulty and we will endeavor to make it plain.

The harmony of the prophetic periods is one of the strongest proofs of the correctness of our Bible chronology. They fit together like the cog-wheels of a perfect machine. To change the chronology even one year would destroy all this harmony,--so accurately are the various proofs drawn together in the parallels between the Jewish and Gospel ages. It would affect the ending of the Jubilee Cycles, the 1335 days, the 2300 days and the Times of the Gentiles, throwing out of gear all the wonderful harmonies of these in the "Parallel Dispensations."

R3415 : page 251
We commend to you a fresh and careful study of the presentations of DAWNS, Vols. II. and III., on these points. Evidently the time features of Present Truth all stand or all fall together, and we see no weakness or signs of their falling: on the contrary everything throughout the world is confirmatory of them.
And while it is true that the great mass of Present Truth is in many respects entirely independent of our "times and seasons," nevertheless they are so related that the latter are almost necessary to explain the former. For instance, without recognizing that we are now living in the "harvest" of the Gospel Age and in the parousia of the Son of Man, how could we account for our great increase in knowledge respecting the various features of the divine plan

The easiest and best explanation of the "feast" now spread before us as the Lord's "household of faith" (indeed the only reasonable one) is that the Lord is now fulfilling his promise recorded in Luke 12:37: "Blessed are those servants, whom the Lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself [as their servant] and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them." While these "things new and old" are handed from one servant to another and to the entire household, can any of us doubt that the Master himself is dispensing the delicious viands which so refresh us?

And if this be so it is a proof that we are in the "harvest" or end of this age just as surely as similar blessings marked the "harvest" of the Jewish age. And the times when these blessings have reached us corroborate the prophetic testimonies respecting when the harvest began (Oct., 1874 A.D.) and when it will end (Oct., 1914 A.D.), a period of 40 years, just as was the Jewish harvest. Unlike error, these things stand investigation and the more searching the investigation the more satisfactory will the results be, we believe, to those who are in the right attitude of heart --to those who seek not to cavil, but to know the mind of the Lord.

Therefore, God will assign someone for PROPHECY, just like he has done throughout the course of man. Now, it was explained on the last Watchtower study what the difference is between a "seer" and a "prophet."

I mentioned that in another thread.

4 hours ago, Witness said:

Can you identify which piece of fruit was sourced in Jesus, that Herd spoke about in his talk – the teaching ten years ago, or the teaching “today”?  What will tomorrow bring if the teaching is altered?  Did ANY of these teachings come from Jesus?  No, because they DO NOT REMAIN.

Did you “hear” that those who do not remain in the Spirit of Christ cannot do “anything”, thus proving they are NOT his disciples, let alone a “faithful and discreet slave" assigned to feed the household of God?

How do you see "disloyalty" as a positive attribute for the body of Christ? Once again, you err in who comprises the Body of Christ. So, does the church of Christ, does it belong. Therefore, each Christian bears that responsibility. So, how does a person, becoming a bad fruit, fit into the Body of Christ? Can a bad apple in a barrel NOT spoil the rest if not promptly removed?

[Space Merchant]

On 3/3/2022 at 2:21 PM, Arauna said:

I would like to add that since JWs do not take up arms or defend themselves they most  probably will be termed as having ' bystander effect'.

Possibly. Because the majority are aware Jehovah's Witnesses are not taking sides politically, but when it comes to War and War-time efforts, they are neutral, as most are who oppose war. The Bystander Effect may be an accusation in relation to those who do not participate in the War between Russia and Ukraine, and the Propaganda tends to spill over to those types, even some who see the wrong in both Presidents of those countries.

As we speak, there is Racism and Discrimination on the rise in the EU, surprisingly, pertaining to Blacks and Russians.

That being said, the Cancel Culture aspect is ridiculous. I don't see how banning Russian cats or taking a Russian Futball team out of a video game is going to change Putin's mind.

[Space Merchant]

On 3/4/2022 at 1:38 AM, Thinking said:

I did not know that about the Indian people…I shudder to think what they will do with the brothers that never got out..

The US and their allies tend to make rivals and enemies of some countries. A lot of bloodied coins and lives traded amongst those of power. NATO, being among the top-dogs in that sense.

[Arauna]

Just remember both sides are part of the wild beast!  And they do act like beasts - bloody and with cunning.

[Dmitar]

Pray for the brothers in Russia and Ukraine.

Jehovah's Witnesses flee Russia for worship without fear (msn.com)

 

[Dmitar]

18 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Because the majority are aware Jehovah's Witnesses are not taking sides politically, but when it comes to War and War-time efforts, they are neutral, as most are who oppose war. The Bystander Effect may be an accusation in relation to those who do not participate in the War between Russia and Ukraine, and the Propaganda tends to spill over to those types, even some who see the wrong in both Presidents of those countries.

Can you explain this with the position Jehovah's Witnesses are taking here politically? It doesn't seem to clear what this so-called "bystander effect" is achieving within a political discussion. When Jehovah’s Witnesses refuse to separate church and state, then it becomes their own political agenda. In effect, political propaganda that has no value in prophecy.

They might as well be Catholics, Evangelicals, Protestants, etc. praying to the Gods just like in ancient times.

Political propaganda

1 Kings 19:12-17

19:12-17. Yahweh's plan. In the ancient Near East the gods were believed to be active in the events of history. Kings claimed that they were put on the throne by their patron deity and that that deity supported them, gave them guidance and brought them victory and success. It is interesting to note, however, that this involvement of the gods always seems to have the tone of political propaganda. The gods of the ancient Near East do not have a plan that they reveal. While they are believed to be active throughout the scope of history, there is no indication that they had a plan for the direction of history.

[Space Merchant]

2 hours ago, Dmitar said:

Can you explain this with the position Jehovah's Witnesses are taking here politically?

The shortest answer would be is no one here, JW or not, is leaning Left, or Right on the issue with Ukraine and Russia. I've yet to see a Left/Right leaning JW on this forum, even a while back. Moreover, no one here is Pro-Putin or Pro-Zelensky, and in regards to Putin, it wouldn't make sense for them to be Pro-Putin due to the events of 2016-2017, and the USSR if you go further back. If we have to delve into who has a political view, it should be noted that there were some, in the past, on this forum and elsewhere, who became Pro-Putin in support of the JW ban in Russia, not realizing the repercussions that came afterwards.

Granted, I dealt with people in the paradigm, including some rivals, I can see via discernment of who is who concerning the issue.

2 hours ago, Dmitar said:

It doesn't seem to clear what this so-called "bystander effect" is achieving within a political discussion.

Bystander Effect is universal in all instances, regardless of view, faith, etc. It can be imposed on people even for the wrong reasons, likewise with the Ostrich Effect.

As for Bystander Effect, it can be utilized by Pro-Zelensky types on JWs, if left behind, to be forced to take a rifle and fight. Granted JWs are neutral, they will not fight therefore they reap consequence from the Ukrainians, as is be branded with the notation of Bystander Effect; those who do not want to fight for Ukraine because of, [any negative remark someone can think of.]

The Paradigm does not attest to the fact some people are being forced to fight for Ukraine, let alone the notation of Marshal Law which was put in place.

That being said, not only one should be praying on the matter, as you attested to, we should be praying for those so they do not get caught up in that mess who live in those areas, likewise, with any Russian caught in the mix, or African, etc. Because many people are effected by a Superpower and a neighboring country fighting, for a gun or a bomb does not care if you are neutral, facts and information is vital so those we pray for, can know how to tread their step so they can escape, evading forced into a fight, jail time, or worse.

2 hours ago, Dmitar said:

When Jehovah’s Witnesses refuse to separate church and state, then it becomes their own political agenda.

They're not part of the state. Those affiliated with the state is Mainstream Christendom. It is obvious due to the fact the moves Babylon made ever since the war started, even prior in relation to their conquest for peace. And speaking of this, one of the Agents of the Beast resurfaced again with more war-mongering talk in support of war and a political side.

2 hours ago, Dmitar said:

political propaganda that has no value in prophecy.

Actions of Babylon and the Beast does, for Christians should be aware of a threat and or enemy.

Clearly if there is a potential danger, you'd look for information first then make a move. Likewise, when Babylon and or the Beast moves, we evade the danger by knowing things.

The difference between someone who is aware and unaware. For you should know this, 2016 was coined. Babylon swept away many, the aware, evaded.

2 hours ago, Dmitar said:

They might as well be Catholics, Evangelicals, Protestants, etc. praying to the Gods just like in ancient times.

If they prayed correctly.

As for praying, one prays for those in the crossfire, for in Ukraine, it isn't just Ukrainians.

2 hours ago, Dmitar said:

Political propaganda

1 Kings 19:12-17

19:12-17. Yahweh's plan. In the ancient Near East the gods were believed to be active in the events of history. Kings claimed that they were put on the throne by their patron deity and that that deity supported them, gave them guidance and brought them victory and success. It is interesting to note, however, that this involvement of the gods always seems to have the tone of political propaganda. The gods of the ancient Near East do not have a plan that they reveal. While they are believed to be active throughout the scope of history, there is no indication that they had a plan for the direction of history.

It appears to look like you pulled this commentary from The IVP Bible Background Commentary: Old Testament. Contextually with the other pages concerning a political role, they also address those who have a political side as is with professing propaganda as a notation of truth. Evident by the fact the other pages explanation of Egypt and the Assyrians, in which it had an indirect effect on the Israelites.

No one here is Left leaning. No one here is Right Leaning. Likewise, although misguided, the EXJWs here in this thread, hold no political faction, collectively, everyone is indirectly effected by the events with Ukraine and Russia. Hence, the remark of 100% certainty, that everyone here buys bread or the equivalent (or oil if you utilize it like the majority).

That being said, someone who holds political faction, can easily be spotted, in this thread, and elsewhere, outside of the Mainstreamers who role with the Triune or the Atheists', I see none.

 

All in all, there are people escaping Russia, taking up the opportunity. Reason, mostly due political superpowers and their actions.