Bible Prophecy and 2034. Will you gain spiritual discernment to become a Survivor of the Last Days?

[BroRando]

1 minute ago, Witness said:

 

This is a little confusing, it is as if you are saying it must all be eaten before the sun sets the first evening, yet you are also saying "between two sunsets".  "In haste" was done on the first "Passover", but it wasn't a tradition to follow. 

Exod 12:8 - And on this night, they shall eat the flesh, roasted over the fire, and unleavened cakes; with bitter herbs they shall eat it.

9 The Lord spoke to Moses: 10 “Tell the Israelites, ‘If any of you or of your posterity become ceremonially defiled by touching a dead body, or are on a journey far away, then he may observe the Passover to the Lord. 11 They may observe it on the fourteenth day of the second month at twilight; they are to eat it with bread made without yeast and with bitter herbs. 12 They must not leave any of it until morning, nor break any of its bones; they must observe it in accordance with every statute of the Passover.  Num 9:9-12

You're so close!   They would commence eating once the bottom of the sun is at the horizon. 

Meal was to conclude when the the Sun sat or at Sundown. (When the Sun disappears and sinks below the horizon)  If the entire meal was not consumed, what was left over must be burned that night before morning.  (Exodus 12:10)  

12 They must not leave any of it until morning, nor break any of its bones; they must observe it in accordance with every statute of the Passover.  Num 9:9-12

[Witness]

49 minutes ago, Chioke Lin said:

Would you suggest, Jesus shouldn't have been protected from Satan, and evil ones wishing to do harm to his body?

Satan did all the harm he could to Jesus' body when he was alive.  He had him tortured and killed.  At his death he was in the abyss/Hades preaching to the demons.  The light of Christ overpowers the darkness of death.  John 1:5

"And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overpower it."  Matt 16:18

He said, "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the one who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." (Gehenna)  Matt 10:28

"Then Jesus came up and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me."  Matt 28:18

"I have told you these things so that in me you may have peace. In the world you have trouble and suffering, but take courage—I have conquered the world.”  John 16:33

Once Jesus died, there was no need for "protection" from Satan.  He was the one who had Satan "chained" and put into the abyss for a symbolic "thousand years".  Rev 20:1-3

 

[Witness]

3 minutes ago, BroRando said:

Meal was to conclude when the the Sun sat or at Sundown.

Are you speaking of the first Passover?  Obviously that wasn't the tradition that continued.  Can you give me a scripture that states each Passover was eaten in just a few minutes?  Exod 12:8 shows they are eating at "night", after the sun sets.  You are saying that the meal was to be finished before that. 

[BroRando]

18 minutes ago, Witness said:

Are you speaking of the first Passover?  Obviously that wasn't the tradition that continued.  Can you give me a scripture that states each Passover was eaten in just a few minutes?  Exod 12:8 shows they are eating at "night", after the sun sets.  You are saying that the meal was to be finished before that. 

Yes... once the sun starts setting it takes about 50 minutes for it to set. Once the sun starts setting it's considered evening or night.  More importantly, @Chioke Lin was on to something when mentioning dusk and dawn.  

Read the account of Jesus. Ater the Passover Meal, he was discussing that he was going to be betrayed. 

AS the Last Supper (Passover Meal) was concluding, Jesus was reclining at the table with the 12 disciples.  While they were eating, he said: “Truly I say to you, one of you will betray me.” (Matthew 26:20-21) Therefore, the event that concluded the Last Passover Meal was the dismissal of an unfaithful apostle. Jesus answered: “It is the one to whom I will give the piece of bread that I dip.” So after dipping the bread, he took it and gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot.  After Judas took the piece of bread, then Satan entered into him. So Jesus said to him: “What you are doing, do it more quickly.” (John 13:26-28) “So after he received the piece of bread, he went out immediately. And it was night.” (John 13:30)

The Greek Word nux for night can also denote night is coming or darkness.

After dismissing the betrayer from the midst of the Faithful Disciples, Jesus instituted a new teaching for His Faithful Followers.  The Passover is done with by that time and forever.  Anyways, most Jews wouldn't have any left overs. 

Christ is our Passover... get it?  The Law was nailed to the tree... 

[Witness]

7 minutes ago, BroRando said:

After dismissing the betrayer from the midst of the Faithful Disciples, Jesus instituted a new teaching for His Faithful Followers.  The Passover is done with by that time and forever.  Anyways, most Jews wouldn't have any left overs. 

Christ is our Passover... get it?  The Law was nailed to the tree... 

Yes, Christ fulfilled the law and his sacrifice replaced the Passover. 

But, he ate the meal and died on the day of preparation, the day before Passover.

John 19:41,42 - “Now at the place where Jesus was crucified there was a garden, and in the garden was a new tomb where no one had yet been buried. And so, because it was the Jewish day of preparation^[dt] and the tomb was nearby, they placed Jesus’ body there.” 

^[dt] The day of preparation was the day before the Sabbath when everything had to be prepared for it, as no work could be done on the Sabbath.”

 

[Witness]

43 minutes ago, BroRando said:

Yes... once the sun starts setting it takes about 50 minutes for it to set. Once the sun starts setting it's considered evening or night.  More importantly, @Chioke Lin was on to something when mentioning dusk and dawn.  

Interesting comparison:

Ezek 12:6 - "While they are watching, raise your baggage onto your shoulder and carry it out in the dark. You must cover your face so that you cannot see the ground because I have made you an object lesson to the house of Israel.”

עֲלָטָה ʻălâṭâh, al-aw-taw'; feminine from an unused root meaning to cover; dusk:—dark, twilight.

darkness, dusk

 

Num 9:11 - In the second month on the fourteenth day at twilight, they shall celebrate it; they shall eat it with unleavened bread and bitter herbs.

עֶרֶב ʻereb, eh'-reb; from H6150; dusk:— day, even(-ing, tide), night.

evening, originally sunset

 

[Chioke Lin]

1 hour ago, Witness said:

Satan did all the harm he could to Jesus' body when he was alive.  He had him tortured and killed.  At his death he was in the abyss/Hades preaching to the demons.  The light of Christ overpowers the darkness of death.  John 1:5

I'm trying to see your teaching. To me, it looks the same with my claim of protection. Just like the Pharisees were afraid, Jesus followers would steal Jesus body in order for them to claim the resurrection, then any evil person could have taken Jesus body to harm the Christian faith. Most of all, Satan. I can imagine what Satan would have done with Jesus body in order to corrupt the Christian faith.

I'm still trying to figure, the "double sabbath" that is being referenced. There is no Double Shabbat unless you are referring to Yom Kippur. That, happens in October, I think. The only way I can see that tradition is if Jesus sacrifice became the day of atonement, along the Sabbath. Heb. 5:7-10-8:4-5 / 2 Cor 5:21

I hope you don't get offended by me asking dumb questions. This site is the first site, I haven't been accosted for having poor English skills and being seen as illiterate.

[Chioke Lin]

I'm seriously processing everyone's input. I don't want anyone to feel discredited or annoyed because of my participation. If anyone feels, I should not participate, please speak out, thanks.

[Witness]

1 hour ago, Chioke Lin said:

I'm trying to see your teaching. To me, it looks the same with my claim of protection. Just like the Pharisees were afraid, Jesus followers would steal Jesus body in order for them to claim the resurrection, then any evil person could have taken Jesus body to harm the Christian faith.

Jesus' life and death was predicted beforehand, and scripture does not give us any inclination that Jesus would claim protection in the abyss - Sheol - Hades - pit; they all refer to the same thing.   

Ps 18:5 - The ropes of Sheol tightened around me, the snares of death trapped me.

Ps 30:3 - O Lord, you pulled me up from Sheol; you rescued me from among those descending into the grave.

Ps 116:3 - The ropes of death tightened around me, the snares of Sheol confronted me. I was confronted with trouble and sorrow.

Isa 28:15 - For you say, “We have made a treaty with death, with Sheol we have made an agreement. When the overwhelming judgment sweeps by it will not reach us. For we have made a lie our refuge, we have hidden ourselves in a deceitful word.”

Hos 13:14 - Will I deliver them from the power of Sheol? No, I will not! Will I redeem them from death? No, I will not! O Death, bring on your plagues! O Sheol, bring on your destruction! My eyes will not show any compassion!

 

 

[Arauna]

6 hours ago, Chioke Lin said:

I'm still trying to figure, the "double sabbath" that is being referenced.

Saturday was the regular sabbath on which no cooking on any work was to be done.  It was the first day of the Festival of Unfermented cakes.  The first day being a special day- kept like a Sabbath.

Festival of Unfermented cakes:

The first convention of the Jews was to be held in early spring and lasted eight days, from Nisan 14 to 21, to celebrate first the Passover; and then the festival of unfermented cakes. 

They were occasions of great rejoicing before Jehovah and happy fellowship, joyful, upbuilding reunions of the entire nation.

Four days previously, on the tenth of the month, each family head had to take into the house a sound male lamb or goat, a year old. After sunset of Nisan 14 it was slaughtered without a bone’s being broken and then roasted whole.

 

"During the first Passover in Egypt - the blood was splashed upon the upper part of the doorway and upon the two doorposts, where every passerby could see it. After this no one was permitted to leave the house.  “Later in the evening the whole family assembled around the table to eat the Passover lamb or goat with unfermented cakes and bitter herbs. They ate in haste, not sitting down at their tables, but standing, with their hips girded, their sandals on their feet and a staff in their hand. They were ready to leave that very night as Jehovah had promised through his prophet Moses. 

The eating of the Passover lamb with unfermented cakes and bitter greens reminds the Israelites, not only of the afflictions while they were in Egypt and the hasty departure, but also of the miraculous deliverance from cruel slavery under the mighty Pharaoh. This has made Passover a joyous festival. To express this joy, wine was added later to be used during this festival of liberation and songs were sung, such as the ‘Egyptian Hallel’ during the first part of the celebration, that is, Psalms 113 and 114, and at the conclusion of the feast Psalms 115 to 118. 

“For, indeed, Christ our Passover has been sacrificed.” (1 Cor. 5:7) Yes, Christ Jesus was offered as the perfect Lamb of God exactly on Nisan 14, in the year 33 C.E. B y this sacrifice the basis was laid for a far greater deliverance than the release from Egyptian captivity.

The day following Passover marked the beginning of the festival of unfermented cakes, which ran for seven days, from Nisan 15 to 21. During these seven days the Israelites continued to eat unfermented cakes; in fact, no fermentation was to be found in their homes. This law was very strict; anyone found eating what was leavened was to be cut off from the people, put to death. 

The next day of the convention, Nisan 16, was another featured day. It was the second day of the festival of unfermented cakes, the official opening of the harvest. The Jews were not allowed to eat from the product of the new harvest before this day, when the firstfruits were offered to Jehovah. On this day the high priest was required to wave a sheaf of the barley firstfruits to and fro before Jehovah at the sanctuary. (Lev. 23:10-14)

During the seven-day festival, in addition to the regular sacrifices, two bullocks, one ram and seven male lambs were offered day by day as burnt offerings and a he-goat as a sin offering, besides the many voluntary offerings by individuals. The festival climaxed with a final general assembly on the seventh day, Nisan 21

By the waving of the sheaf of the firstfruits of the barley harvest, another important point was foreshadowed. Again it is the apostle Paul who gives us the correct understanding: “However, now Christ has been raised up from the dead, the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep . . . Christ the first fruits.” No ferment or leaven, representing sin, was associated with the presentation of the barley firstfruits, for Jesus Christ was “loyal, guileless, undefiled, separated from the sinners.” As the sheaf was waved on Nisan 16 Jesus was raised as the “first fruits,” or the firstborn from the dead, on Nisan 16, 33 C.E. Since Jesus is called the “first fruits” or “first-born from the dead,” there must be more “fruit” following him. This is foreshadowed by the next festival.

On Sivan 6, the second national convention was held, the festival of weeks, also called Pentecost, meaning the fiftieth day. It was a one-day convention. Many conventioneers stayed in Jerusalem from Passover till Pentecost. Pentecost was a very joyful gathering; it was “the festival of harvest of the first ripe fruits of your labors, of what you sow in the field.” 

 They should be baked leavened, as first ripe fruits to Jehovah.” It is interesting to notice the use of leaven during this festival. 

The most notable festival of weeks ever held was the one celebrated after Jesus’ resurrection in the year 33 C.E. The historian Dr. Luke has recorded the events of this memorable Pentecost in detail. (See Acts, chapter 2.) It was on this day that the waving of the two fermented loaves began to have fulfillment. The two loaves symbolically represented the entire body of 144,000 spirit-begotten members of Christ’s body as being waved or presented by Christ Jesus, the greater High Priest, before Jehovah as holy unto Him. The 120 disciples who were gathered in the upper room were the first members presented and the ingathering of the remaining ones has continued from Pentecost 33 C.E. until our day, with a remnant yet living on earth. The first ones were taken from the natural Jews, as foreshadowed by one of the loaves, and then others were taken from the Gentile nations, beginning in 36 C.E., when Peter preached to Cornelius, as represented by the second “loaf.”—Acts 10:1-48.

]

The watchtower I found this information  goes on to explain why the breads were fermented etc..    https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1967523

 

Nissan 15: That is, Nisan 15. The day after Nisan 14 was always observed as a Sabbath, or holy day of rest, no matter what day of the week it fell on. Additionally, in 33 C.E., Nisan 15 fell on the regular weekly Sabbath, making the day a “great,” or double, Sabbath.—Joh 19:31; see App. B12 (this appendix B12 is worth keeping)

 

John 19:31: New International Version

³¹ Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jewish leaders did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down.

 

Preparation: A name applied to the day preceding the weekly Sabbath. During this day, the Jews got ready for the Sabbath by preparing extra meals and finishing any work that could not wait until after the Sabbath. In this case, the day of Preparation fell on Nisan 14.—Mr 15:42; see Glossary.

27:63

three days: This expression can mean parts of three days. This is evident from the request that the tomb “be made secure until the third day,” and not until the fourth.—Mt 27:64; see study note on Mt 12:40.

three days and three nights: Other Bible accounts show that this expression can mean parts of three days and that part of one day can be considered a whole day.—Ge 42:17, 18; 1Ki 12:5, 12; Mt 27:62-66; 28:1-6.

 

I looked this up because it is important.  Enjoy!

 

[Arauna]

10 hours ago, Chioke Lin said:

Jesus shouldn't have been protected from Satan, and evil ones wishing to do harm to his body?

Jesus cried out " my God why have you forsaken me" (paraphrased)..... 

If God helped Jesus at this time, then Satan could accuse God of not being fair - that Jesus did not give his all together with his life and suffer of his own free will. Satan  could have said that Jesus was unfairly or extraordinarily helped to endure. He did not really have a death of suffering.

When they offered Jesus myrrh and wine he refused for the same reason.  This combination was known to deaden the pain and was a kind of drug.  Jesus did everything perfectly so that no legitimate accusations could be brought against his sacrifice.  There were of course, many false accusations.

 

Sheol and Hades: 

These words mean the same: the common grave of mankind (all humans go to dust in the common grave of mankind). Gehenna is the second death (this can be discussed later as this refers to death which lasts forever.)

I can explain this to you in more detail later if you want........  but it is important to know that Jesus died completely!

What do I mean by that? Many Christians believe Jesus was a body with a separate soul.  Is this belief correct? NO! This belief comes from the Babylonian teachings of the "underworld" where the soul lives on after death or is conscious.  The bible does not teach this at all. 

In fact, the Bible prophesied that Jesus would put his "soul" in death!   Isaiah 53: 12 

"For that reason I will assign him a portion among the many, And he will apportion the spoil with the mighty, Because he poured out his soul  even to death And was counted among the transgressors; He carried the sin of many people, And he interceded for the transgressors."

Soul is equated with your life as a person, and some translations render it as " life" or a breather". 

Question: if only Jesus' body died - then why does the bible say that the "soul" that sinneth, it shall die.....  If only his body died - then our souls are not saved because the entire soul dies!

Humans - when they die - everything they are goes into death - also the part which can think and be morally responsible for the person's actions. Ezekiel 18:4 "  Look! All the souls*—to me they belong. As the soul of the father so also the soul of the son—to me they belong. The soul* who sins is the one who will die."

 

In fact you are a soul (there are many scriptures in the bible which prove this).  One can kill a soul with a sword, a soul has blood; and animals are also called souls!   Josh 11:11 (many translations has living person or soul in this verse); 

 Genesis 9:4. God allowed Noah and his family to add animal flesh to their diet after the Flood but commanded them not to eat the blood. God told Noah: “Only flesh with its soul—its blood—you must not eat.” 

 Leviticus 17:14. “You must not eat the blood of any sort of flesh, because the soul of every sort of flesh is its blood. Anyone eating it will be cut off.” God viewed the soul, or life, as being in the blood and belonging to him. 

 

When Jesus died - he died completely.  No part of him remained alive.

Jesus is called the Last Adam:  Jesus died the same death as Adam to save us from death - "a life for a life" or soul for soul. Jesus was the only person and last person to be exactly like Adam - a perfect man. (1 Cor 15:45)

Adam was created from dust and god blew breath into his nostrils - he became a living soul or person.  (read Genesis 2:7).   (He could not think or do anything conscious before God blew the breath of life into him - he was dust formed into a body). 

 

When Adam sinned - god said he would go back to the condition he was in before he was conscious - before he knew he existed. God said genesis 3: 3 " You must not eat from it, no, you must not touch it; otherwise you will die.’” ⁴  At this the serpent said to the woman: “You certainly will not die.

Satan lied and many people still believe this lie - that we do not completely die!  

Genesis 3:19...... "¹⁹  In the sweat of your face you will eat bread* until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”

Adam went back into nothingness, oblivion... dust - what he was before god created him.

 

So Adam was perfect and will never exist again (he is in Gehenna or second death)- he chose to disobey God as a perfect human being.  The ransom sacrifice of Jesus works only for imperfect humans who put faith in him and his resurrection - to get a chance of a resurrection to life.

 

This scripture usually shocks people:  Eccl 3: " ¹⁹  for there is an outcome* for humans and an outcome for animals; they all have the same outcome.  As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit. So man has no superiority over animals, for everything is futile. ²⁰  All are going to the same place. They all come from the dust, and they all are returning to the dust."

 

We are in the same condition as animals at death.  Animals do not receive a resurrection but humans are different.  We are moral beings (we understand good and bad), and have the opportunity to be resurrected.  All is not futile for those who put their trust in Jehovah and the resurrection of Jesus. 

Faith in the resurrection allows us remain faithful.  We know we are not lost in the grave forever even if our persecutors may kill us.

 

I am sure you will have more questions ... am I right?   That is very good!  Go ahead!

[Chioke Lin]

14 hours ago, Witness said:

Interesting comparison

Since I was used as a point of reference, it seems the phrase dusk to dawn has now become confusing. When Jesus spoke of Jonah, it would be important to use Jonah's experience.

Can any commentor post, why "dawn" should not be considered in Jesus experience?

Jonah’s Anger at the LORD’s Compassion

Jonah 4

Jonah, however, was greatly displeased, and he became angry. 2 So he prayed to the LORD, saying, “O LORD, is this not what I said while I was still in my own country? This is why I was so quick to flee toward Tarshish. I knew that You are a gracious and compassionate God, slow to anger, abounding in loving devotion—One who relents from sending disaster. 3 And now, O LORD, please take my life from me, for it is better for me to die than to live.”

6 So the LORD God appointed a vine, and it grew up to provide shade over Jonah’s head to ease his discomfort, and Jonah was greatly pleased with the plant.

7 When dawn came the next day, God appointed a worm that attacked the plant so that it withered.

8 As the sun was rising, God appointed a scorching east wind, and the sun beat down on Jonah’s head so that he grew faint and wished to die, saying, “It is better for me to die than to live.”