Who was John Aquila Brown?

[Moise Racette]

There is nothing good that can be said about the abolitionist John Brown. He profaned the name of God and used his misunderstanding of scripture to justify his murderous rampage.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/63389806-john-brown

That doesn't mean he was wrong about 1914CE

[JW Insider]

2 hours ago, Moise Racette said:

That doesn't mean he was wrong about 1914CE

Now that's funny!!

[Moise Racette]

It should be since it was John Aquila Brown that talked about the gentile times. Therefore, the abolitionist John Brown has no relevance in prophecy, other than smearing the name of God. So, yes! its funny.

[JW Insider]

On 12/14/2022 at 6:01 PM, Moise Racette said:

There is nothing good that can be said about the abolitionist John Brown. He profaned the name of God and used his misunderstanding of scripture to justify his murderous rampage. . . .

That doesn't mean he was wrong about 1914CE

On 12/14/2022 at 8:02 PM, JW Insider said:

On 12/14/2022 at 6:01 PM, Moise Racette said:

That doesn't mean he was wrong about 1914CE

Now that's funny!!

Sorry if that was misunderstood. When I said "that's funny" I was thinking about the fact that TTH was trying to get this Lincoln/Grant discussion away from JW Only forums and finally put in a general non-JW forum. On this "third" attempt to remove it from JW references, TTH mentioned John Brown, and I wondered if someone might confuse this John Brown with John Aquila Brown. I was afraid someone would say: "Wasn't John Brown the man who wrote about the Gentle Times?"

For anyone who isn't aware of how this ties to JW beliefs, John A. Brown is mentioned in the JW "history" book, that we often just call "Proclaimers," quoted below:

*** jv chap. 10 p. 134 Growing in Accurate Knowledge of the Truth ***
As early as 1823, John A. Brown, whose work was published in London, England, calculated the “seven times” of Daniel chapter 4 to be 2,520 years in length. ... He did, however, connect these “seven times” with the Gentile Times of Luke 21:24.

That brief and only mention of him in our publications has confused some into thinking that John A. Brown mentioned 1914. He never did. Based on the above "Proclaimers" quote, some Witnesses have also thought that at least "he did, however, connect these 'seven times' with the Gentile Times of Luke 21:24." He never did that either.

So far, the WTS has not corrected the misinformation.

To see what John A. Brown actually said, one can find the primary book about the topic here:

https://www.google.com/books/edition/_/BakZr75kBvYC?hl=en&gbpv=1

That's volume 1 of Even-Tide, above. Volume 2 is on Google Books, too, but it goes on to other topics:

https://www.google.com/books/edition/_/FokAQDtWwQgC?hl=en&gbpv=1

He also wrote this book:

https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Jew_the_Master_key_of_the_Apocalypse/NKPhpB9uKEUC

If anyone wishes to discuss his books, I can join. I've read two of them, and that discussion will be moved to a JW-related forum.

[Moise Racette]

6 hours ago, JW Insider said:

That brief and only mention of him in our publications has confused some into thinking that John A. Brown mentioned 1914. He never did.

Yes, you make an erred assumption in behave of my post. I never indicated John A Brown mentioned 1914CE. His understanding was on the gentile times. I mentioned 1914CE as a perceived understanding to the end of the gentile times, which is 1914CE. So, me mentioning John A Brown and 1914CE is inconsequential to your post.

If you are to play with words, play with them correctly, thanks. 

Also, why would anyone want to discuss how people that deny with impunity 1914CE here, when they will never be convinced nor will they ever convince others of that denial.

[Moise Racette]

Although J A Brown did mention 1917CE, which is more inline with the Jewish perception of Prophecy with the Balfour Declaration. 

Balfour Declaration was a public statement issued by the British government in 1917 during the First World War

So, anyone viewing the prophetic signs "correctly" can go either or.

From the rise of the four monarchies, commencing 604 A.C., to their final dissolution, there will be a grand week of years, or 2520 years, and will terminate, January 1, 1917.

How he arrived at, 1917 is to be considered. It should have started in 653AC.

 

[Pudgy]

Not nearly as interesting as Bullwinkle the Moose pulling a rinocerus out of a hat, but then again, it was the wrong hat.

[JW Insider]

13 hours ago, Moise Racette said:

How he arrived at, 1917 is to be considered. It should have started in 653AC.

Why? What happened in 1866?

 

13 hours ago, Moise Racette said:

commencing 604 A.C., to their final dissolution, there will be a grand week of years, or 2520 years, and will terminate, January 1, 1917

2520 - 604 (+1) = 1917

2520 - 653 (+1) = 1866

[Pudgy]

August 20, 1866 the American Civil War officially ended. If you add one “week of years” (=7) to 1859 to Harper’s Ferry raid on the Armory, you get 1866, and add 100 years, that puts you in 1966, into the Hippie Years, if you had not died or gone senile.

At any rate, you would be so old your wrinkles would cast shadows!

[Pudgy]

See?

[JW Insider]

@Pudgy With respect to the so-called "overlapping generations," John A Brown had "solved" this (in 1823) by saying that Jesus was referring to the literal, physical "Nation of Israel." Curiously, his arguments also count on the fact that the natural nation of Israel would NEVER pass away, but would be restored at Armageddon in 1844, and would become a world empire, surviving the attack of Gog and Magog in 1873, and would reach its full and glorious realization in the entire world by the time of the second judgment in 1917. Some of this is similar to C.T.Russell's view in the Watchtower, and even Rutherford's view up until at least 1925, that the nation of Israel would gradually become the only surviving nation in the world, ruling from Jerusalem in Palestine.

A lot of Witnesses are not aware that C.T.Russell was a "world famous" Zionist according to some current Zionist historians. But Rutherford's last major support for Zionism was the book "Comfort for the Jews" in 1925, containing teachings that Rutherford dropped completely by 1930 (in the books, Light I and Light II).

[JW Insider]

19 hours ago, Moise Racette said:

I never indicated John A Brown mentioned 1914CE. His understanding was on the gentile times. I mentioned 1914CE as a perceived understanding to the end of the gentile times

I wonder what you thought John Brown was right about, then, when you said "that doesn't mean he was wrong about 1914."

For the record John A Brown (in 1823) said that:

• The end of the Gentile Times was going to be just a few years off, in the year AD 1844.
• The beginning of the Gentile Times was the start of Mohammedism (Muslims) in AD 622.
• The Gentile Times were 3 and ¹/₂ times in length, using the length Revelation 11:2 assigns to them.
  • Multiple times he clarifies that the length of the Gentile Times in Luke21:24 = 1,260 (day/yrs)
  • The reason this looks like only 1,222 [solar] years is because he uses "Mohammedan" lunar years

So there is really nothing about John A Brown thinking there are "seven" Gentile Times. (Of course, the ONLY length of time that the Bible ever associates with the Gentile Times of Luke 21:24 is 1,260 days, so Brown uses that period in years.)

The completely separate 2,520 year period which he derives from Daniel 4 is a period he sets to the start of Nebuchadnezzar's first year of reign in 604 BCE. That would be the year to start the "head of gold" from the image found in Daniel 2  So to Brown it's unrelated to Jewish or Messianic rulership, or the destruction of the Temple about 18 or 19 years later (which Brown would have therefore associated with 587 or 586 BCE.)

And Brown never indicates that the Gentile Times would end in 1914 or 1917 or any time around World War I. He ends the Gentile Times in 1844. He ends Daniel's 1,290 day period in 1873. And he ends Daniel's 1,335 day period in 1917. Because all the periods started with the beginning of the Muslim Mohammedan religion in AD 622.

C.T.Russell and many other commentators had focused on the Papal and secular politics of the Holy Roman Empire, using only Solar years, and therefore had started the 1,260 "days" earlier and ended them in 1799. That made the 1,290 "days" end in 1829 and the 1,335 "days" end in 1874. J A Brown appears to be the first commentator to end the 2,300 days in 1844, which Adventists also accepted, both using solar years and starting around Ezra's time in 457 BC.