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If we discover Extraterrestrial sentient life, can they be baptized?


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(Philippians 2:8-11) . . .. 9 For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, 10 so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend—of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground— 11 and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. Not all sentient life can speak. Earthworms for example, not that you needed an example. Yet earthworms are under the

My original question had no discriminatory flavor to it. In Science Fiction, the term is "xenophobic", which locally refers to a hatred or dislike of people of other countries. PALOMAR MOUNTAIN, CALIFORNIA Place Of Dreams Fulfilled. When I was a pre-teenager, about 1957 or so, the Russians awakened the world as if throwing ice water or sleeping planet by launching into space the Sputnik satellite, a small ball about the size of a basketball in orbit around the earth, and several

I think not. Angels =(beings from outer space) can not, because they are already God's servants.    

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(Philippians 2:8-11) . . .. 9 For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, 10 so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend—of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground— 11 and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.

Not all sentient life can speak. Earthworms for example, not that you needed an example. Yet earthworms are under the ground. I think we should limit it to those with tongues and with the ability to openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, and make a request for a good conscience.

(1 Peter 3:21, 22) 21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, is also now saving you (not by the removing of the filth of the flesh, but by the request to God for a good conscience), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. 22 He is at God’s right hand, for he went to heaven, and angels and authorities and powers were made subject to him.

Of course, there might be issues. What if we need to baptize them in mercury or liquid sulphur because they are not the kind of carbon based life form that manages well when water is applied to them?

Or if they are mostly made of bone, and the bone is mostly a pumice material, then we might have to drop them from extreme heights to make sure they get fully immersed. (After the talk we meet at the bungee bridge for the baptism.)

That leads to another question. What if, instead of we discovering them, they discover us? I hope they know to baptize humans in water and not, say, liquid nitrogen, or sulphuric acid.

 

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*** it-1 p. 253 Baptism ***
The passage at 1 Corinthians 15:29 is variously rendered by translators: “What shall they do which are baptized for the dead?” (KJ); “on behalf of their dead?” (AT); “on behalf of the dead?” (NE); “for the purpose of being dead ones?” (NW)

I think the Mormons wait until the person is dead, no? Isn't this why they are so interested in genealogies?

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21 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

If we discover Extraterrestrial sentient life forms, can they be baptized?

It depends.

I think everyone's jumping the gun here. First, you'd have to learn to communicate effectively with them and learn their culture. Then you'd have to send missionaries and have a Remote Translation Office set up in their part of the galaxy. If the missionaries are not eaten or liquefied to become some kind of biofuel for their hover pods, then all's good. However, there might be some problems with internet signals so connection to the org's website on Earth could be an issue. But if those obstacles are overcome (lots of prayer and donations will be needed), an interested life-form would then have to complete two study books, regularly attend the meetings, decide whether it was going to wear either a suit and tie or a dress forever (once the decision has been made, it's irrevocable), actively evangelize its fellow life-forms, and only then would it be considered for water* baptism. 

* Unless it professes the heavenly calling, there is no other kind, because Bible.

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On 4/10/2017 at 3:13 PM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

 

If we discover Extraterrestrial sentient life forms, can they be baptized?

 

Sorry to pop this terracentic bubble, but isn't it basically exhibiting alienophobic tendencies? (Can't see a way to effectively hijack the word "alienist" at the moment!)

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My original question had no discriminatory flavor to it.

In Science Fiction, the term is "xenophobic", which locally refers to a hatred or dislike of people of other countries.

PALOMAR MOUNTAIN, CALIFORNIA
Place Of Dreams Fulfilled.

When I was a pre-teenager, about 1957 or so, the Russians awakened the world as if throwing ice water or sleeping planet by launching into space the Sputnik satellite, a small ball about the size of a basketball in orbit around the earth, and several times a day the satellite would travel over the United States of America with its beeping signals, very primitive by today’s standards, and you could stand out in your front yard and look into the night sky and see it pass overhead as a rapidly moving star.
It’s hard to even explain nowadays the galvanizing effect this had on the nations in general and the United States in particular, but as an 11-year-old boy who somehow had picked up the desire to go to space this captured my imagination as much as it scared the imagination of military and political leaders around the world. At the time I had no geopolitical sense whatsoever so I was totally enthralled by what I saw in the night sky.
It’s hard to even explain nowadays the shock effect that this obvious and apparent demonstration of Soviet superiority had on the world and specifically the United States. Overnight, it seemed, the educational system was ramped up to include science and mathematics beyond the imagination of what people had planned merely months before. The Soviet satellite, and the implications of Soviet superiority were the topic of every magazine, every newspaper and every mass media market that existed at that time… Extremely primitive by today’s standards.
As usual, anything that captured the imagination of the American people, could be exploited to make a dollar off of it, and very soon in the exact same manner that the sport of baseball had baseball cards, there were space cards available in every store and outlet that I was aware of. You could buy a pack of space cards with a slab of bubblegum and there would be pictures of space stations, meteor strikes, what we thought the planets look like then, and everything even remotely related to space.

If memory serves, it’s through these space cards that I became aware of the great observatory at Palomar Mountain, the Palomar Observatory, which took seven years to build as I later found out and was truly as magnificent piece of technology such as the world had never seen before.
By the age of 13, I had become so enthralled with Palomar Mountain and Palomar Observatory that I hungrily absorbed any and all information I could find about it, and vowed that when I grew up I would make a pilgrimage to Palomar Mountain and feast my eyes on the giant eye that could see across the universe and unravel the secrets it contained. By understanding the universe, as an aside, it occurred to me that I could understand the mind of God, which is partially true.
So with this in mind, I have provided the link below so that if you’re not familiar with Palomar Observatory, which is in Southern California, you can review the Wikipedia link, which will add a great deal to your understanding and appreciation of the poem “Infinity”, by Rosser Reeves.

    Hello guest!

………. About 1963 or so I discovered a old yellow science fiction book in the upper levels of my library at the high school I attended, and I believe I read all the science fiction that they had in the school at that time and in this old yellow science fiction book was this poem.
I was so stunned by the magnificence and scope of the poem, that I have tried my entire life to commit fully to memory, and several times I did, but that was then, and this is now. I can still recite the poem pretty much from memory, if I have it written down before me so I can glance down and see what comes next.
If you remember the old advertising slogan “… Melts in your mouth not in your hand”, that M&M candy company used to use on television, the same guy that invented that slogan, is the guy that wrote this poem.
All of this having been said, with great pleasure I present to you as if it were my personal gift ……….. the poem, “Infinity”, by Rosser Reeves.
INFINITY by Rosser Reeves
=======================

The probing eye of Palomar peers skyward to reveal
A billion molten, fiery stars in our galactic wheel...
And shows that even this great disc
Is but a firefly burning,
Within a much more monstrous wheel,
Slowly, slowly turning.

May not this next celestial wheel
Be but an atom's glow in some big molecule of stars
In some huge flake of snow?
For may not space flow on and on from door to opening door,
Like seas that open into seas and never reach a shore?

If in our atom's tiny flame a billion stars are whirled
And millions of these lonely suns has each a captive world,
Just follow to the trillionth power and on beyond to see,
What must be true when ciphers link down to infinity.

Somewhere red planets swing around a triple silver sun,
And pale, pale rainbows interlock their arches one by one.
Somewhere, dark girls upon their brows grow curving, scarlet horns,
And ride in tinkling gardens on great golden unicorns.

Somewhere rains of diamonds fall on foaming, milk-white seas,
Where rockets follow streaming light from star to star with ease.
And soft-eyed girls with honeyed lips swim up to sing and free
Their water-weighted lashes from their native shining sea.

Great blue-white giant blazing suns control a thousand spheres
Where reptiles march in glistening ranks and fight with jeweled spears;
Where lizards lounge on ivory thrones
And keep to weave and spin, to clean their overlapping scales,
A smooth-skinned race of men.

Somewhere crustaceans think like Gods and muse eternal laws
And write the music of the spheres with clicking bony claws.
Or beetles, fish and furry things emerge as sentient breeds,
Or, working with atomic fires are thinking centipedes.

Or, coal-black spiders sway in webs
Beneath chill alien moons,
And finger gemlike instruments to strum immortal tunes.
Or serpent-men on serpent worlds evolve to racial prime,
And glide in fourth dimensions where
The riddle solved is time.

For if there is no end of worlds and nature keeps her laws,
Who knows which life will win which world:
The hands...the coils...the claws?
So feathered things and crawling things
And creeping things all go
Their separate ways on separate worlds,
Around, above, below.

If God employs infinity His wonders to perform,
And there's no end of endlessness,
Can there, then, be a norm?
Would God give souls to sentient beasts
Or would they still be clods?
If evolution is God's way,
Whose image, then, is God's?

An endlessness of worlds implies a world of every kind:
Worlds where our past repeats itself until the end of time.
Worlds where our future's far events enact themselves before;
Where every closing portal means another opening door.

So if there is infinity, if endlessness is true,
Somewhere, Napoleon walks again the fields of Waterloo;
And somewhere, always, in the depths of time's vast shoreless sea,
Upon the ghastly Hill of Skulls,
Christ hangs upon the tree.
===============================================

 


…. it appeared in "The Best From Fantasy and Science Fiction, Tenth Series" in 1961. The cover price is/was 45¢!!

The editor's comment: "The author is chairman of the board of a large corporation, and we confess we find it intriguing and comforting to know that a man whose workday is devoted to the harsh realities of multi-million-dollar profit and loss has in him that good old-fashioned sense of wonder."
.

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11 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

All of this having been said, with great pleasure I present to you as if it were my personal gift ……….. the poem, “Infinity”, by Rosser Reeves.
 

Great poem, enjoyed it a lot! Thanks.

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    • Eric Ouellet

      Sauve-moi, ô Dieu, car les eaux menacent ma vie.
      Je m’enlise dans la boue profonde, où il n’y a pas de sol ferme.
      Je coule dans des eaux profondes,
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      Je suis fatigué d’avoir crié ;
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      Mes yeux se sont épuisés à attendre mon Dieu.
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      ô Souverain Seigneur, Jéhovah des armées !
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      ô Dieu d’Israël !
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    • Eric Ouellet

      L'amour de Jéhovah nous modèle vers l'excellence de notre être 
      Ô Jéhovah, tu es notre Père. Nous sommes l’argile, et tu es notre Potier ; nous sommes tous l’œuvre de ta main. Isaie 64 :8  » Un potier a le pouvoir de faire avec l’argile le récipient qu’il désire. L’argile n’a pas son mot à dire. Il en va de même de l’homme par rapport à Dieu. Il n’est pas plus en droit de contester les actes de Dieu que l’argile du potier, qui, de ses mains, lui donne forme (lire Jérémie 18:1-6).
      Jéhovah a montré sa capacité d’agir sur l’Israël antique comme le potier agit sur l’argile. Nous notons cependant une grande différence. Le potier peut transformer sa motte d’argile en n’importe quelle sorte de récipient. Mais Jéhovah façonne-t-il arbitrairement les personnes, ou les nations, faisant les unes bonnes et les autres mauvaises ? D’après la Bible, ce n’est pas le cas. Jéhovah a doté l’homme d’une faculté très précieuse : le libre arbitre. La manière dont il exerce son autorité souveraine ne nous prive pas de cette faculté. Chacun doit décider s’il se laissera façonner par le Créateur (lire Jérémie 18:7-10).
      Et si un humain refuse obstinément de se laisser modeler, comment le Grand Potier exerce-t-il son autorité ? Pense au sort d’une argile qui devient impropre à l’usage que le potier veut en faire. Eh bien, il peut soit en faire un autre récipient soit la jeter ! Toutefois, quand l’argile est inutilisable, c’est généralement de la faute du potier. Mais en ce qui concerne notre Potier, ce n’est jamais le cas (Deut. 32:4). Quand une personne ne cède pas au modelage de Jéhovah, c’est toujours de sa faute à elle. Le Grand Potier exerce son autorité sur les humains en s’adaptant à la manière dont ils réagissent à son modelage. Ceux qui réagissent bien sont façonnés en récipients utiles. Par exemple, les chrétiens oints sont des « vases de miséricorde » qui ont été façonnés en « récipient[s] pour un usage honorable ». En revanche, ceux qui s’opposent obstinément à Dieu finissent par être des « vases de colère devenus dignes de destruction » (Rom. 9:19-23).
      Jéhovah modèle les humains notamment en les conseillant ou en les corrigeant. Voyons comment il exerce son autorité sur ceux qu’il façonne en nous intéressant aux deux premiers rois d’Israël : Saül et David. Quand David a commis l’adultère avec Bath-Shéba, il a causé du tort tant à lui-même qu’à d’autres. Jéhovah ne s’est pas retenu de le reprendre avec fermeté, il fut ainsi avec les hommes qui furent sous Sa direction. Par le prophète Nathân, il lui a adressé un message sévère (2 Sam. 12:1-12). Comment David a-t-il réagi ? Touché en plein cœur, il s’est repenti et a bénéficié de la miséricorde divine (lire 2 Samuel 12:13).
      Par contre, Saül, le roi qui a précédé David, a mal réagi aux conseils. Par l’intermédiaire du prophète Samuel, Jéhovah lui avait formellement ordonné de vouer à la destruction tous les Amaléqites et tout leur bétail. Mais Saül a désobéi. Il a épargné le roi Agag ainsi que les meilleures bêtes. Pourquoi ? Notamment pour s’attirer des louanges (1 Sam. 15:1-3, 7-9, 12). Quand il a été conseillé, il aurait dû être malléable, se laisser façonner par le Grand Potier. Mais il a résisté. Il s’est justifié, prétextant qu’il avait agi à bon droit parce que les bêtes seraient offertes en sacrifice. Il a minimisé le conseil de Samuel. Il a donc été rejeté par Jéhovah. Il ne méritait plus d’être roi et n’a jamais retrouvé de bonnes relations avec le vrai Dieu (lire 1 Samuel 15:13-15, 20-23).
      DIEU N’EST PAS PARTIAL
      Jéhovah offre la possibilité d’être façonné non seulement à des individus mais aussi à des nations. En 1513 av. n. è., les fils d’Israël, libérés de l’esclavage en Égypte, sont entrés dans une relation d’alliance avec Dieu. Étant sa nation choisie, Israël avait l’honneur d’être modelé par lui, d’être en quelque sorte sur le tour du Grand Potier. Cependant, le peuple n’a pas cessé de faire ce qui est mauvais aux yeux de Jéhovah, allant même jusqu’à rendre un culte aux dieux des nations voisines. Maintes et maintes fois, Jéhovah a envoyé des prophètes pour le ramener à la raison, mais il n’a pas écouté (Jér. 35:12-15). Son obstination lui a valu d’être sévèrement repris. Comme des « vases » devenus « dignes de destruction », le royaume du Nord, formé de dix tribus, et celui du Sud, formé de deux tribus, ont été vaincus l’un par l’Assyrie et l’autre par Babylone. Quelle leçon puissante ! Nous ne tirerons profit du façonnage de Jéhovah qu’à condition de bien y réagir.
      Jéhovah a également offert aux habitants de Ninive, la capitale assyrienne, la possibilité de tenir compte de ses avertissements. Il a dit à Jonas: « Lève-toi, va à Ninive la grande ville, et proclame contre elle que leur méchanceté est montée devant moi. » Ninive était vouée à la destruction (Jonas1:1, 2 ; 3:1-4).
      Cependant, quand Jonas a annoncé son message de condamnation, « les hommes de Ninive se mirent à avoir foi en Dieu ; ils proclamèrent alors un jeûne et se revêtirent de toiles de sac, du plus grand d’entre eux au plus petit d’entre eux ». Leur roi « se leva de son trône, ôta son vêtement officiel de dessus lui, se couvrit d’une toile de sac et s’assit dans la cendre ». Réceptifs à la tentative de modelage de Jéhovah, les Ninivites se sont repentis. Jéhovah n’a donc pas fait venir le malheur sur eux (Jonas 3:5-10).
      Bien qu’étant une nation choisie, Israël n’a pas été exempté de la correction. Les Ninivites, quant à eux, n’étaient pas dans une relation d’alliance avec Dieu. Pourtant, Jéhovah leur a adressé un message de condamnation et leur a fait miséricorde quand ils sont devenus de l’argile malléable entre ses mains. Ces deux exemples ne prouvent-ils pas que Jéhovah « ne se montre partial envers personne » ? (Deut. 10:17).
      JÉHOVAH EST RAISONNABLE ET SOUPLE
      La manière dont Dieu est disposé à nous modeler indique qu’il est raisonnable et souple. Témoin des situations où il prononce des jugements justes mais les révise ensuite selon la réaction des concernés. Au sujet du premier roi d’Israël, les Écritures déclarent que Jéhovah a « regrett[é] d’avoir fait régner Saül comme roi » (1 Sam. 15:11). La Bible dit encore que, lorsque les habitants de Ninive se sont repentis et sont revenus de leur voie mauvaise, « le vrai Dieu regretta le malheur qu’il avait parlé de leur causer ; et il ne le causa pas » (Jonas 3:10).
      Le terme hébreu traduit par « regretta » se rapporte à un changement de point de vue ou d’intention. Jéhovah a changé de point de vue à l’égard de Saül : il l’avait choisi pour être roi, mais il a fini par le rejeter. Ce changement s’est produit non parce que Jéhovah avait fait un mauvais choix, mais parce que Saül a manqué de foi et est devenu désobéissant. Le vrai Dieu a éprouvé du regret dans le cas des Ninivites : son intention à leur égard a changé. Quel réconfort de savoir que Jéhovah, notre Potier, est raisonnable et souple, compatissant et miséricordieux, prêt à réviser son jugement quand un transgresseur se réforme !
      NE REJETONS PAS LA DISCIPLINE DE JÉHOVAH
      Aujourd’hui, Jéhovah nous façonne principalement par sa Parole, la Bible, et par son organisation (2 Tim. 3:16, 17). Ne devrions-nous pas accepter tout conseil ou toute correction que nous recevons par ces moyens ? Quelles que soient les années que nous avons passées à servir Dieu, ou nos attributions de service, continuons d’accepter les conseils de Jéhovah, laissons-nous façonner en vases pour un usage honorable. 
      Le Grand Potier est notre Père. Et ne l’oublions jamais, « celui que Jéhovah aime, il le reprend, comme un père reprend le fils en qui il prend plaisir ». Alors, « ne rejettons pas [...] la discipline de Jéhovah, et n’ayons pas son blâme en aversion » (Prov. 3:11, 12).

      · 0 replies
    • folens  »  Eric Ouellet

      Hello Eric, merci pour tes bons sujets. Bonne journée Michel
      OUI certains jours.mp4
      · 1 reply
    • Eric Ouellet

      Bâtissons chaque but de notre vie avec amour
      L'homme à toujours chercher le sens véritable de l'amour. L'homme réfléchissant à cette vertu, il sépara cette qualité en trois phases et uni en une seule.  Les millénaires passèrent et l'homme à compris que les trois phases de l'amour sont des étapes que l'on ne peut trépasser.
      La première partie est appelé" L'Éros."
      L'éros fut le premier chemin que Dieu entama dans son Esprit ( pensée en action) (verbe) intérieur avant de faire ce monde magnifique que nous vivons. L'Éros est le feu qui nous anime dans le début d'une pensée qui nous traverse l'esprit.
      L'Amour éros est une énergie très puissante, car d'elle, d'une seule image non réalisée, l'éros active cette image en rêve, uni à notre pensée et propulse dans notre vision, un rêve ultime qui nous pousse à chercher au fond de nous, le sentiment qui nous anime puissamment.
      Nous recherchons en nous d'autres images pour connaitre d'avantage cette vibration qui se manifeste, telle un feu ardent.
      D'un rêve, l'amour de ce but te pousse à créer et fonder ce rêve dans ta réalité, construire le but ultime de ta vie.
      La flamme de Yah, s'anime en toi ( Chant de Salomon)
      Le désir sexuelle ne fait pas parti de cet Amour.
      L'Éros te propulse dans tout les côtés des variantes d'un but non réalisé, dont tu ne connais point comment construire ce but qui s'anime en toi; et même comment pourrais-je réaliser ce but?
      Quand le rêve d'un projet d'avenir est dans l'Éros, il ne faut pas qu'il devienne en nous une obsession intense. Nous ne savons pas comment contrôler notre feu intérieur de ce but, de cette vision qui anime nos pensées, jour après jour et souvent dans les images de notre sommeil, elles peuvent envahir nos nuits.
      L'amour " Éros" nous confrontes à plusieurs désirs qui nous anime et qu'avec le temps nous apprenons à assembler le casse tête de la réalisation de notre vie, les pièces maîtresses de notre rêve qui nous poussent sans cesse à trouver les outils et l'instructions nécessaires à notre cheminement qui s'accomplit pendant une grande période de notre vie, pour atteindre l'objectif premier de notre vie, le vrai but que nous voulons accomplir.
      Quand notre but est assemblé, telle un film intérieur, de sa première image (début), à son dénouement et cela jusqu'à son accomplissement , alors notre rêve se voit construit dans notre esprit alors nous sommes prêt; nous pouvons commencer la deuxième étapes de l'amour qui construit notre but.
      L'AMOUR PHILIA UNE ÉTAPE TRÈS IMPORTANTE DE L'AMOUR
      La connaissance de l'amour apporte à réaliser le rêve de notre but vers la réalisation de notre projet en ce monde au bonheur de chacun.
      Les étapes de réalisation de chaque but, doit être construit avec l'Amour philia à (suivre)...

      · 1 reply
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