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UN investigator: Rights of minorities to worship undermined


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I quote @Arauna  One cannot compare this to JWs. We allow people to choose their religion - but we cannot condone those who are traitors to Jehovah.  We do not mix with those... but we do not sto

It's interesting to note the progression towards annihilation of Babylon the great isn't it.  

Dear members of JW. I would like to draw your attention to an article in your journal Awake, Under the headline, the author of the article, who is no doubt a JW, put the ideological idea of UN organiz

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On 11/5/2020 at 2:28 AM, Isabella said:

In addition, he said, Jehovah’s Witnesses are banned in 34 countries and it is reportedly difficult or illegal to run a humanist organization in over 30 countries.

Shaheed said the right to legal identity and citizenship has also been stripped because of religion and beliefs.

“Shia Muslims in Bahrain, Rohingya Muslims in Myanmar, and Jehovah’s Witnesses in Eritrea and Russia have had their citizenship revoked or denied on the basis of their religious identity,” he said. “In Vietnam, Hmong and Montagnard Christians have been unable to secure the necessary `house register’ documentation for citizenship. Non-Muslims may not obtain citizenship in Maldives.”

In Iran, unrecognized religious or belief groups, including the Baha'is, are unable to access employment, housing, university-level education, health care and social services, including pensions,” Shaheed said. And in Egypt and Malaysia, human rights organizations report that identity cards issued to minorities often fail to display their religious identity leading to discrimination in government services.

Full article: https://www.fox13memphis.com/news/world/un-investigator/46MXMZSYGEUYPTXDBD4O5IXR4Q/


On 11/5/2020 at 1:30 PM, Arauna said:

Religious discrimination just going to get worse as this system ticks on.

Dear members of JW. I would like to draw your attention to an article in your journal Awake, Under the headline, the author of the article, who is no doubt a JW, put the ideological idea of UN organization from 1948. You call that same organization "the scarlet colored beast that came out of the abyss" and how this Beast is "full of blasphemous names."

How is it possible that the author of the article, with the approval of GB, invokes such an organization and accepts the “blasphemous” ideology of Article 18 and at the same time “prophesies” against the UN?

Let's see what Article 18 says.

Religious Intolerance Today

“Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.” Article 18, Universal Declaration Of Human Rights, 1948. - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/101999001?q=minorities&p=par

Article continues:

DO YOU enjoy religious freedom in your country? Most countries in the world ostensibly subscribe to this noble principle, ....It is estimated, however, that in numerous countries where intolerance and discrimination are hard realities, countless millions of people today do not enjoy religious freedom. ....

“Discrimination based upon religion or conviction exists in almost all economic, social, and ideological systems and in all parts of the world,” noted Angelo d’Almeida Ribeiro, former Special Rapporteur appointed by the UN Commission on Human Rights. In their book Freedom of Religion and Belief—A World Report, published in 1997, editors Kevin Boyle and Juliet Sheen state: “Religious persecution of minority faiths [and] the proscribing of beliefs and pervasive discrimination . . . are daily occurrences at the end of the twentieth century.”....

Religious discrimination can take many forms.....The book Freedom of Religion and Belief cites other examples of intolerance: “Heresy and heretics are not only an image from the past. . . . Rejection, persecution and discrimination towards those who have taken a different path remain a major cause of intolerance. ...." Clearly, religious freedom is under threat in many parts of the world....

..., the director of the Human Rights Centre of the University of Essex, United Kingdom, observed: “All evidence points to the conclusion that religious intolerance . . . is increasing rather than decreasing in the modern world.” Such increasing intolerance threatens religious freedom, perhaps your religious freedom. Why, though, is religious freedom so important?.....

Freedom of religion is like part of the foundation of a building. Other freedoms—civil, political, cultural, and economic—are built upon it. If the foundation is undermined, the whole edifice suffers....

If other freedoms are to be protected, religious freedom needs to be safeguarded first.

In order to discern how best to protect something, it is essential to understand it. What are the roots of religious freedom? How was it established, and at what price?

The parts of the text that I put in bold are the messages of the author of the article. It is very hypocritical for the author of an article to invoke something that forbids to their own members. And if some member change or is in process of changing their religious beliefs, then the Organization, together with its members, subjects them to religious intolerance and spiritual and literal persecution.

JW members in their public preaching announce that there will come a New World in which only those who accept the WTJWorg doctrine will live and be able to exist. Please, then, what kind of religious tolerance and religious freedom do you want to exist today and tomorrow for the religious majority and for religious minority?

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1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

members of JW. I would like to draw your attention to an article in your journal Awake

If you noticed Bahrain, Maldives etc are all Muslim countries who do not allow other religions to be practiced in their countries... even if it is another brand of Islam.

One cannot compare this to JWs. We allow people to choose their religion - but we cannot condone those who are traitors to Jehovah.  We do not mix with those... but we do not stop them from practicing their new choices. 

In most Muslim countries you can go to jail or be killed for practicing another religion. Bahai religion is banned in Iran and persecuted...most have fled the country. Iran now executes apostates on the smallest of pretexts....  

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1 hour ago, Arauna said:

One cannot compare this to JWs. We allow people to choose their religion - but we cannot condone those who are traitors to Jehovah.  We do not mix with those... but we do not stop them from practicing their new choices. 

We allow people to choose their religion - but we cannot condone those who are traitors to Jehovah.

This statement and such attitude shows "religious discrimination". It seems how everyone who choose different religion belongs to "traitors" of JHVH. 

Islam claim how Abraham, Moses and Jesus + Mohamed are God's representatives of true religion aka Islam. 

1 hour ago, Arauna said:

In most Muslim countries you can go to jail or be killed for practicing another religion.

In time of Moses, practicing another religion or different beliefs was also punishable by death.   

Well, after having past and present facts, we face the question: Do we want religious freedom for all or only for selected? 

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I quote @Arauna 

One cannot compare this to JWs. We allow people to choose their religion - but we cannot condone those who are traitors to Jehovah.  We do not mix with those... but we do not stop them from practicing their new choices. 

Reading this actually made me feel sick.

How dare you think you have the right to condemn people. You are so full of hate from the teachings of your GB. It is your GB that instills this type of belief into JWs. 

The CCJW does not own Almighty God or Jesus Christ. Will you never understand until it is too late for you ? Your GB are the ones that have turned their backs on God and Christ. But you just love having your ears tickled by your GB and the Org. 

It is sad. Your GB are stumbling blocks to so many people. Your GB continue to tell lies and to 'err', but JWs continue to serve them. Your GB continue to cover up the Child Sexual Abuse and continue to hide the pedophiles in the CCJW. Your GB will not appologise to victims of CSA and refuse to pay compensation to them. And you have the stupidity to say it is others that are 'traitors to Jehovah'. 

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23 minutes ago, César Chávez said:

First off, as usual Srecko, you need to understand the context of the article when freedom of religion was a problem even in the United States. Even the Watchtower went to bat for that first amendment right. Does that mean the Watchtower is in agreement with other religious ideologies? NO! That is the proposition you contend with, not the Org.

A religious voice that is now beginning to be silenced by subversive and hateful people. That is the ideology the devil set in place for the end of days. Not just for the Watchtower but, all organized religion. When that door closes, it will be no different from the door closing in Noah's ark. 

To help finding context, some more quotes from another WT publications:

 What Does Religious Freedom Mean to You?

Surely, we would expect any nation that genuinely cares for its subjects to grant such freedom. Sadly, this does not always happen.......Consider, for example, the situation that prevailed for many years in Mexico. Although the Constitution guaranteed religious freedom, it stipulated: “Churches used for public worship are the property of the Nation, represented by the Federal Government, who shall determine which ones can continue to be used as such.” In 1991 the Constitution was amended to end this restriction. Nevertheless, this example illustrates that religious freedom may be interpreted differently in various lands.....Interestingly, however, there is a kind of religious freedom that does not depend at all upon locale. While in Jerusalem in the year 32 C.E., Jesus said to his followers: “If you remain in my word, you are really my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”—John 8:31, 32. - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1997080


Protecting Freedoms—How?

We naturally tend to reject or suspect that which is different or unusual, especially views that differ from our own. Does this mean that tolerance is impossible?...What should be the aim of this education? The magazine UNESCO Courier suggests that instead of fostering rejection of religious movements, “education for tolerance should aim at countering influences that lead to fear and exclusion of others, and should help young people to develop capacities for independent judgement, critical thinking and ethical reasoning.”....


The Best Way to Fight Intolerance

Tolerance does not mean that everyone should have the same ideas. People might disagree with one another. Some may feel strongly that the beliefs of another person are very wrong. They may even speak publicly of their disagreements. However, as long as they do not spread lies to try to incite prejudice, this is not intolerance. Intolerance is seen when a group is persecuted, targeted by special laws, marginalized, banned, or in some other way hindered from following their beliefs. In the most extreme form of intolerance, some kill and others have to die for their beliefs.

How can intolerance be fought? It can be exposed publicly, as the apostle Paul exposed the intolerance of religious leaders of his day. (Acts 24:10-13) When possible, though, the best way to fight intolerance is to work proactively—to promote tolerance, that is, to educate people to understand others better. The UN report on the elimination of intolerance referred to earlier says: “As all forms of intolerance and discrimination based on religion or belief have their birth in the human mind, so it is at human minds that action should initially be directed.” Such education may even lead individuals to examine their own beliefs. - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/101999003

It is notable, now, how WT publications in those periods of time, made praises to UN and try to show how UN goals are of benefit for all people, including JW.

Does WTJWorg stand today on same UN ideas about "religious tolerance" or you think how WTJWorg changed "context" for different sort of understanding? :))

52 minutes ago, César Chávez said:

Does that mean the Watchtower is in agreement with other religious ideologies? NO! That is the proposition you contend with, not the Org.

WTJWorg public claims are how JW members have to "tolerate" and "respect" other religious ideologies. What does this mean in "your context" of understanding? To "shun" people who think differently? And to not even say "simple hello" to ex-JW? :)) 

Obviously, you are not part of such JW majority, because you doing even more than simple hello, you discuss spiritual things with ex-JW, which is forbidden activity according to JW Leaders. It seems you show more religious tolerance and less discrimination than GB mandatory instructions. And that is good. Up-vote for you!

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35 minutes ago, César Chávez said:

This is where you are completely wrong. I entered this forum in order for visitors to understand, ex-witnesses are allowed to vent and rant while someone who holds the truth gets kicked out of the forum. Those that get kicked out, usually set ex-witnesses straight about their erroneous and misleading ideology. Therefore, I have no need to know about the lives of people other than to show others the confusion, people have here. 


:)) I can be in the wrong but not completely wrong. 

You are entitled to make whatever explanations and excuses for your participating on this or any other public site. Not sure should i believe in your reasons or motives but that is of minor importance for subject we discuss.

Who is in confusion here or outside of this forum? Who need your help? JW public preaching in line with WT instructions is tool for JW members ... but instead you choose spend time on debates. :)) That is sort of distraction from main goal - preaching about Jesus and Gospel. We have 8 followers and 506 views of this topic ... so, how many of them are confused?

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5 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Therefore, let's return to topic: UN investigator: Rights of minorities to worship undermined

Government restrictions on religion increasing worldwide

By DAVID CRARY July 15, 2019 - https://apnews.com/article/3f554ea6fe6a42c08c0618745eee8c2b

NEW YORK (AP) — Government restrictions on religion have increased markedly in many places around the world, not only in authoritarian countries, but also in many of Europe’s democracies, according to a report surveying 198 countries that was released Monday.

The report released by the Pew Research Center, covering developments through 2017, also seeks to document the scope of religion-based harassment and violence. Regarding the world’s two largest religions, it said Christians were harassed in 143 countries and Muslims in 140.

............ In Spain, according to the report, some municipal governors have introduced bans on burqas and face-covering veils, and have also restricted public preaching and proselytizing by such groups as the Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Circumcision of boys also has been an issue in Europe. Muslim and Jewish groups in Germany and Slovenia have complained of government officials interfering in their religious traditions by trying to criminalize circumcision for nonmedical reasons.

............ Another category in the report was religious harassment by individuals and social groups. The United States ranked among the worst-scoring countries in this category in 2017, in part because of the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, where white supremacist protesters displayed swastika flags and chanted anti-Semitic slogans.

Pew said the biggest increase in religious hostility by individuals occurred in Europe. Victims of violence, in incidents cited in the report, include Jehovah’s Witnesses in Ukraine and a rabbi and a Muslim woman in Belgium.

In Germany, Pew said, there were reports that thousands of refugees were pressured to convert to Christianity after being warned they might otherwise be deported.................

“Almost every faith that’s a majority somewhere is a minority somewhere else and often gets persecuted where they’re a minority,” Brownback said at a State Department briefing. “So that’s why a big part of our effort is to get the faiths to come together and to stand for each other.”

“We’re not talking common theology here — nobody agrees on theology,” he added. “We’re talking about a common human right.”

After this article and highlighted/bold ending quotes i will continue to remind readers with recent example how religious leaders and their lawyers unitedly acting in their searching for "human aka religious rights/freedom". 

WT Lawyer David Gnam, under WTJWorg GB approval and blessings, he sought, received, and accepted the support of his religious dissenters (in this Court case they are Intervenors. There were 12 intervenors in the case — eight were religious organizations, including the World Sikh Organization of Canada. - https://www.canadianlawyermag.com/news/general/scc-says-courts-cant-decide-procedural-fairness-of-religious-organizations/275200).

In different circumstances they are all “spiritual enemies” of JW elder David Gnam. Moreover, JW elder David Gnam in his preaching activity and from the assembly podium explains how the religious leaders of all other religions that do not belong to JW will be destroyed because they are Christ’s opponents who advocate the devil’s false teaching. 

It is of great importance to see the WT JWorg hypocrisy in this example. Official doctrine forbids JW members from associating with “unbelievers” except when they are in the "field service of preaching the gospel". David Gnam does not preach the gospel in the courtroom nor refute the false teachings of these other religious and secular “false teachers”. What does David Gnam, JW elder and lawyer, do? He teams up with leaders of “false religions” to gain their support and win in secular court.

With what result?  Respondent’s Lawyer said this:

"The decision seems to say the courts will not intervene in unfair practices by religious groups, even if their decisions have severely detrimental effects, as religion and its community membership can be so central to a person’s life.

“One need only think about what religious organizations are all about to understand the huge potential for expulsion or shunning to detrimentally affect a member's life. . . The potential for harm at the hands of a religious organization is, therefore, great,” he says.


Other Parties
Canadian Council of Christian Charities Intervener Active
Association for Reformed Political Action Canada Intervener Active
Canadian Constitution Foundation Intervener Active
Evangelical Fellowship of Canada Intervener Active
Catholic Civil Rights League Intervener Active
Christian Legal Fellowship Intervener Active
World Sikh Organization of Canada Intervener Active
Seventh-Day Adventist Church in Canada Intervener Active
Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms Intervener Active
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints in Canada Intervener Active
British Columbia Civil Liberties Association Intervener Active
Canadian Muslim Lawyers Association Intervener Active


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On 11/7/2020 at 12:12 PM, César Chávez said:

This is where you are completely wrong. I entered this forum in order for visitors to understand, ex-witnesses are allowed to vent and rant while someone who holds the truth gets kicked out of the forum. Those that get kicked out, usually set ex-witnesses straight about their erroneous and misleading ideology. Therefore, I have no need to know about the lives of people other than to show others the confusion, people have here. 


Um, not quite. Actually an ex-JW got kicked out because of false accusations from a so called JW. Something about 'death threats' and bringing in the FBI :) 

So are you Billy The Kid, or some Allen person. Of course it matters not. Who ever you are you tell as many lies as most other JWs, but that is part of the GB teachings. 

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