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The thought just occurred to me that concerning Gog of Magog, since there is absolutely NOTHING I can do about Gog of Magog, perhaps my time as a dog could be better spent sitting on a log with Kermit the frog, being agog over eggnog.

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                      (Log and Frog not shown for clarity)

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It is my understanding, that from all the descriptions, straight from the Bible, that WHATEVER "Gog of Magog" is prophetically ... it has not happened yet. I have a great deal of real, solid, pal

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On 6/20/2021 at 11:40 PM, BroRando said:

The conquest of Jesus Christ isn't over just yet, the War of Almighty God continues: "Now as soon as the 1,000 years have ended, Satan will be released from his prison, and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Maʹgog, to gather them together for the war. The number of these is as the sand of the sea." (Rev 20:7-8)

 

On 6/20/2021 at 11:40 PM, BroRando said:

'Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power.' (1 Corinthians 15:24) It's at this point that, Jesus Christ can once again make the claim, "It has been accomplished!" He will have finished his conquest to the full, bringing mankind back to perfection as to the time of Adam and Eve's perfect condition prior to their willful sinning....

Daniel 7 talks about the fourth Beast, which is Revelation’s Wild Beast of the Sea. (Rev 13:1,2)  Both accounts mention that it (as an organization, according to the Wt), “makes war with the saints”, with the anointed.  How? Through deceit, by a false prophet  demanding allegiance to it, and through the trampling of God’s temple by “Gentiles”, which the anointed are that Temple.  (Rev 16:13-16)  This false prophet directs/guides/rules over this Beast.  (Rev 13:11-14,7,18;11:1,2; 2 Thess 2:3,4; 1 Cor 3:16,17; 1 Pet 2:5:Eph 2:20-22) 

It has made the decree that this Beast organization is “spirit directed”. (Rev 13:15)  No political organization in the world touts that it is spirit directed, except for one.  Eventually, the Beast removes the false prophet/spiritual Harlot. It can’t stand her sins any longer.  It will ‘hate the harlot, 'make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire’; which pretty much means the organization’s governing leaders will be ripped up one side and down the other.  Once the Harlot is gone, a symbolic “10 kings” (those anointed who should be following Jesus Christ, Rev 1:5; 5:9,10) “receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast.” (Rev 17:12)  Who else is part of this development, the “eighth” horn/king?  Well, who rules over the anointed?  Who “represent the royal priesthood”?  Who have the authority to judge the anointed? (Rev 17:11; Dan 8:9,11,12)

So, at this point the "horn" is still waging war with the saints.  (Rev 17:14; Dan 8:23,24)

Daniel 7:

“I watched till thrones were put in place,
And the Ancient of Days was seated;
His garment was white as snow,
And the hair of His head was like pure wool.
His throne was a fiery flame,
Its wheels a burning fire;
10 A fiery stream issued
And came forth from before Him.
A thousand thousands ministered to Him;

Ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him. (The sealed “144,000” )
The court was seated,
And the books were opened.”

Time for judgment to come upon the Beast, and those within it, which includes the anointed who relinquished their royal heavenly authority, by giving it to the Beast.  They “worship” the Beast.  They have accepted its “mark”. The organization means everything to them, as their idol.   (Rev 13:4,16,17) They are the “foolish virgins” who continue to “buy” their oil/spirit/food from the false prophet.  (Matt 25:6-13; Rev 3:15-19; 13:17)

“I watched then because of the sound of the pompous words which the horn was speaking; I watched till the beast was slain, and its body destroyed and given to the burning flame.”  Dan 7:11

This is how Revelation reads it:

“Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.”  Rev 19:20

Who captured the Beast?  We know that the Beast is the man of lawlessness (which “set itself up” in God’s Temple/"living stones", “standing where it doesn’t belong”.   (Rev 13:18; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Mark 13:14; 1 Pet 2:5,9)  We know that Jesus is the one who captures and destroys the Beast.

“And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.” 2 Thess 2:8

At his return, the Beast and false prophet are thrown into the “lake of fire”, representing judgment by God’s word, which is compared to fire.  Jer 23:29  The lake of fire is not a literal place of burning.  It is judgment.

Daniel tells us more of what happens during this time:

“I was watching in the night visions,
And behold, One like the Son of Man,
Coming with the clouds of heaven! (the faithful heavenly anointed, Heb 12:1-3)
He came to the Ancient of Days,
And they brought Him near before Him.
14 Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom,
That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion,
Which shall not pass away,
And His kingdom the one
Which shall not be destroyed
.”

You are saying that Jesus doesn’t receivean everlasting dominion and glory and kingdom this kingdom, until a thousand years after Armageddon.  Not so according to Daniel.  He receives this after the Beast has been captured and thrown into the lake of fire. 

“I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came, and a judgment was made in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came for the saints to possess the kingdom.

“Thus he said:

‘The fourth beast shall be
A fourth kingdom on earth,
Which shall be different from all other kingdoms, 
And shall devour the whole earth,

(God’s “inhabited earth” referring to the anointed dwelling of God.  (John 14:23; Rom 8:9; 1 Cor 3:16; 6:19; 3:9; Eph 2:19)


Trample it and break it in pieces. (Matt 24:15,16; 2 Thess 2:3,4)
24 The ten horns are ten kings
Who shall arise from this kingdom.
And another shall rise after them;
He shall be different from the first ones,
And shall subdue (abase) three kings. (the same “three” kings that were “plucked out”/disfellowshipped by this beast/ organization (Dan 7:8; Rev 11:1-3,7;13:15)
25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute the saints of the Most High,  Rev 13:5-7
And shall intend to change times and law. (1914! 2034!)

Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time.

26 ‘But the court shall be seated,
And they shall take away his dominion,
To consume and destroy it forever.
27 Then the kingdom and dominion,
And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven,
Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High.
His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,
And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.

These two Beasts, Gog and Magog, will not appear after Armageddon.  There is no more war after Armageddon, there is no chance these “saints” will be surrounded when they have received their kingdoms through this verdict, that happens when the Beast is captured and thrown into the lake of fire.  This is the end of all war.  (Rev 20:7-9) (Rev 21:4,5)  Do you see that all dominions shall serve and obey Him”?  There will not be a time of deceit (Rev 20:7,8) a thousand years into the Kingdom, when people will not serve and obey Him, even though your leaders teach it will happen. It teaches that many will fall, that they will be destroyed with Satan. They will have been deceived.  How can that be in a righteous  setting when the sheep and the goats have already been judged - ALL who have lived on this earth?   I remember being taught about the thousand years after Armageddon, and thinking, where did the promise of no more tears or suffering or pain go? 

This is a prophesy in Daniel 7 after Revelation’s Beast is conquered;  and prophesies hold true: “ But the saints of the Most High shall receive the kingdom, and possess the kingdom forever, even forever and ever.’  Dan. 7:18

Again, this is when the Beast organization has been slain at the time of Armageddon. So, tell me, if these words are true, what good would it do to have Satan show up a thousand years later to “surround the saints” and deceive them?  They’ve already been proven faithful and victorious over Satan and his Beast. (Rev 15:2; 7:9,13-15)  They did not love their lives more than giving testimony of Christ in front of the Beast organization/elder body. (John 12:25; 16:1,2; Rev 11:7; 13:15; 6:9-11)  They will have already possessed the kingdom - forever.  (Rev 12:10,11). 

The “thousand years” ended with the emergence of this deceitful Beast and the false prophet that propagated it.  (2 Pet 3:17; 1 Tim 4:1; Rev 8:10,11; 9:1-4; 20:3,7)

You took 1 Cor 15 and cut it up to suit a false teaching. 

1 Cor 15:23 - But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, (all previous faithful anointed, James 1:18) afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. > Those who gained victory over the Beast, are with Christ at his coming.

1 Cor 15:24 - “Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. “

What is that kingdom that he delivers to God?  Look in the Happiness book, chapter 16, par. 13.   It truthfully states that Jesus began reigning over his anointed congregation/body since the first century.  (Ps 110:1,2)  He formulated his “kingdom” of faithful, sealed anointed “144,000” since then.    His “enemies” are the unfaithful “kings” who defied his teachings.

That authority and rule that he puts an end to, also has to do with Jesus slaying the powerful Beast and his enemy the “false prophet”, that held authority and power over God’s holy people; the Beast from the Sea was slain “by the breath of his mouth”.  2 Thess 2:8

1 Cor 15:25 – “For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.”   

How does that occur?  Satan is thrown into the lake of fire where the beast and the false prophet are.  Rev 20:10

But also, look what is happening further in Rev 20:11-14 after “Gog and Magog”/the false prophet and the beast organization of Rev. 13, have been thrown into the lake of fire:

Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.” Rev 20:11

Compare this to Dan. 7:9 which speaks of the Ancient of Days sitting on His throne; and remember that Daniel tells us that this happens after the Beast is conquered at the time of Armageddon – not a thousand years into the Kingdom. 

Rev 20:12,13 speaks of books being opened.  Compare this to Dan. 7:10 – books were opened. 

1 Cor 15:26 - The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 

Compare:  Rev 20:13-15 - The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.”

Gog and Magog are very active at “surrounding the saints” now.  Gog – an Israelite/ a fallen anointed of “Israel” – your GB.  Magog – the organization/man of lawlessness/Beast/elder body/army that “surrounds the saints” through deceit.  They “make war” using blasphemous words against God’s anointed holy people.    They judge them through disfellowshipping.   Remember, the elder body’s position as (counterfeit) priests “cannot be challenged”. 

One more thing for any JWs who have read this far.  Since you comfortably accept the elder body’s role, without concerning yourself with Jesus’ feeling on the matter, consider this.  Can you imagine Jesus telling his called priests of “Israel”, who have received the “circumcision of the heart”, to remove their symbolic royal garments and step down from being his priests?  Would Jesus say, “hand your royal robes over to the elder body” –  to “uncircumcised” spiritual “Gentiles”. God has never poured out His spirit into the hearts of men who desire to “secure the priesthood” and remove their daily sacrifices.  (Dan 8:12; 12:11; Rev 11:2)  (Rom 2:28,29; 5:5; 1 John 2:27)  Can you imagine Jesus saying, ‘listen to these unanointed men, they have been given authority over you with the ability to judge your spiritual stand, before me.’ (Rom 6:16)  It is blasphemous, and never would have occurred in the first century.   (Gal 1:10)  (Isa 63:18; Dan 8:24)

For this reason, the Beast organization is destroyed. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Witness said:

 

Daniel 7 talks about the fourth Beast, which is Revelation’s Wild Beast of the Sea. (Rev 13:1,2)  Both accounts mention that it (as an organization, according to the Wt), “makes war with the saints”, with the anointed.  How? Through deceit, by a false prophet  demanding allegiance to it, and through the trampling of God’s temple by “Gentiles”, which the anointed are that Temple.  (Rev 16:13-16)  This false prophet directs/guides/rules over this Beast.  (Rev 13:11-14,7,18;11:1,2; 2 Thess 2:3,4; 1 Cor 3:16,17; 1 Pet 2:5:Eph 2:20-22) 

It has made the decree that this Beast organization is “spirit directed”. (Rev 13:15)  No political organization in the world touts that it is spirit directed, except for one.  Eventually, the Beast removes the false prophet/spiritual Harlot. It can’t stand her sins any longer.  It will ‘hate the harlot, 'make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire’; which pretty much means the organization’s governing leaders will be ripped up one side and down the other.  Once the Harlot is gone, a symbolic “10 kings” (those anointed who should be following Jesus Christ, Rev 1:5; 5:9,10) “receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast.” (Rev 17:12)  Who else is part of this development, the “eighth” horn/king?  Well, who rules over the anointed?  Who “represent the royal priesthood”?  Who have the authority to judge the anointed? (Rev 17:11; Dan 8:9,11,12)

So, at this point the "horn" is still waging war with the saints.  (Rev 17:14; Dan 8:23,24)

Daniel 7:

“I watched till thrones were put in place,
And the Ancient of Days was seated;
His garment was white as snow,
And the hair of His head was like pure wool.
His throne was a fiery flame,
Its wheels a burning fire;
10 A fiery stream issued
And came forth from before Him.
A thousand thousands ministered to Him;

Ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him. (The sealed “144,000” )
The court was seated,
And the books were opened.”

Time for judgment to come upon the Beast, and those within it, which includes the anointed who relinquished their royal heavenly authority, by giving it to the Beast.  They “worship” the Beast.  They have accepted its “mark”. The organization means everything to them, as their idol.   (Rev 13:4,16,17) They are the “foolish virgins” who continue to “buy” their oil/spirit/food from the false prophet.  (Matt 25:6-13; Rev 3:15-19; 13:17)

“I watched then because of the sound of the pompous words which the horn was speaking; I watched till the beast was slain, and its body destroyed and given to the burning flame.”  Dan 7:11

This is how Revelation reads it:

“Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.”  Rev 19:20

Who captured the Beast?  We know that the Beast is the man of lawlessness (which “set itself up” in God’s Temple/"living stones", “standing where it doesn’t belong”.   (Rev 13:18; 2 Thess 2:3,4; Mark 13:14; 1 Pet 2:5,9)  We know that Jesus is the one who captures and destroys the Beast.

“And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.” 2 Thess 2:8

At his return, the Beast and false prophet are thrown into the “lake of fire”, representing judgment by God’s word, which is compared to fire.  Jer 23:29  The lake of fire is not a literal place of burning.  It is judgment.

Daniel tells us more of what happens during this time:

“I was watching in the night visions,
And behold, One like the Son of Man,
Coming with the clouds of heaven! (the faithful heavenly anointed, Heb 12:1-3)
He came to the Ancient of Days,
And they brought Him near before Him.
14 Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom,
That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion,
Which shall not pass away,
And His kingdom the one
Which shall not be destroyed
.”

You are saying that Jesus doesn’t receivean everlasting dominion and glory and kingdom this kingdom, until a thousand years after Armageddon.  Not so according to Daniel.  He receives this after the Beast has been captured and thrown into the lake of fire. 

“I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came, and a judgment was made in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came for the saints to possess the kingdom.

“Thus he said:

‘The fourth beast shall be
A fourth kingdom on earth,
Which shall be different from all other kingdoms, 
And shall devour the whole earth,

(God’s “inhabited earth” referring to the anointed dwelling of God.  (John 14:23; Rom 8:9; 1 Cor 3:16; 6:19; 3:9; Eph 2:19)


Trample it and break it in pieces. (Matt 24:15,16; 2 Thess 2:3,4)
24 The ten horns are ten kings
Who shall arise from this kingdom.
And another shall rise after them;
He shall be different from the first ones,
And shall subdue (abase) three kings. (the same “three” kings that were “plucked out”/disfellowshipped by this beast/ organization (Dan 7:8; Rev 11:1-3,7;13:15)
25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute the saints of the Most High,  Rev 13:5-7
And shall intend to change times and law. (1914! 2034!)

Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time.

26 ‘But the court shall be seated,
And they shall take away his dominion,
To consume and destroy it forever.
27 Then the kingdom and dominion,
And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven,
Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High.
His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,
And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.

These two Beasts, Gog and Magog, will not appear after Armageddon.  There is no more war after Armageddon, there is no chance these “saints” will be surrounded when they have received their kingdoms through this verdict, that happens when the Beast is captured and thrown into the lake of fire.  This is the end of all war.  (Rev 20:7-9) (Rev 21:4,5)  Do you see that all dominions shall serve and obey Him”?  There will not be a time of deceit (Rev 20:7,8) a thousand years into the Kingdom, when people will not serve and obey Him, even though your leaders teach it will happen. It teaches that many will fall, that they will be destroyed with Satan. They will have been deceived.  How can that be in a righteous  setting when the sheep and the goats have already been judged - ALL who have lived on this earth?   I remember being taught about the thousand years after Armageddon, and thinking, where did the promise of no more tears or suffering or pain go? 

This is a prophesy in Daniel 7 after Revelation’s Beast is conquered;  and prophesies hold true: “ But the saints of the Most High shall receive the kingdom, and possess the kingdom forever, even forever and ever.’  Dan. 7:18

Again, this is when the Beast organization has been slain at the time of Armageddon. So, tell me, if these words are true, what good would it do to have Satan show up a thousand years later to “surround the saints” and deceive them?  They’ve already been proven faithful and victorious over Satan and his Beast. (Rev 15:2; 7:9,13-15)  They did not love their lives more than giving testimony of Christ in front of the Beast organization/elder body. (John 12:25; 16:1,2; Rev 11:7; 13:15; 6:9-11)  They will have already possessed the kingdom - forever.  (Rev 12:10,11). 

The “thousand years” ended with the emergence of this deceitful Beast and the false prophet that propagated it.  (2 Pet 3:17; 1 Tim 4:1; Rev 8:10,11; 9:1-4; 20:3,7)

You took 1 Cor 15 and cut it up to suit a false teaching. 

1 Cor 15:23 - But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, (all previous faithful anointed, James 1:18) afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. > Those who gained victory over the Beast, are with Christ at his coming.

1 Cor 15:24 - “Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. “

What is that kingdom that he delivers to God?  Look in the Happiness book, chapter 16, par. 13.   It truthfully states that Jesus began reigning over his anointed congregation/body since the first century.  (Ps 110:1,2)  He formulated his “kingdom” of faithful, sealed anointed “144,000” since then.    His “enemies” are the unfaithful “kings” who defied his teachings.

That authority and rule that he puts an end to, also has to do with Jesus slaying the powerful Beast and his enemy the “false prophet”, that held authority and power over God’s holy people; the Beast from the Sea was slain “by the breath of his mouth”.  2 Thess 2:8

1 Cor 15:25 – “For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.”   

How does that occur?  Satan is thrown into the lake of fire where the beast and the false prophet are.  Rev 20:10

But also, look what is happening further in Rev 20:11-14 after “Gog and Magog”/the false prophet and the beast organization of Rev. 13, have been thrown into the lake of fire:

Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.” Rev 20:11

Compare this to Dan. 7:9 which speaks of the Ancient of Days sitting on His throne; and remember that Daniel tells us that this happens after the Beast is conquered at the time of Armageddon – not a thousand years into the Kingdom. 

Rev 20:12,13 speaks of books being opened.  Compare this to Dan. 7:10 – books were opened. 

1 Cor 15:26 - The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 

Compare:  Rev 20:13-15 - The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.”

Gog and Magog are very active at “surrounding the saints” now.  Gog – an Israelite/ a fallen anointed of “Israel” – your GB.  Magog – the organization/man of lawlessness/Beast/elder body/army that “surrounds the saints” through deceit.  They “make war” using blasphemous words against God’s anointed holy people.    They judge them through disfellowshipping.   Remember, the elder body’s position as (counterfeit) priests “cannot be challenged”. 

One more thing for any JWs who have read this far.  Since you comfortably accept the elder body’s role, without concerning yourself with Jesus’ feeling on the matter, consider this.  Can you imagine Jesus telling his called priests of “Israel”, who have received the “circumcision of the heart”, to remove their symbolic royal garments and step down from being his priests?  Would Jesus say, “hand your royal robes over to the elder body” –  to “uncircumcised” spiritual “Gentiles”. God has never poured out His spirit into the hearts of men who desire to “secure the priesthood” and remove their daily sacrifices.  (Dan 8:12; 12:11; Rev 11:2)  (Rom 2:28,29; 5:5; 1 John 2:27)  Can you imagine Jesus saying, ‘listen to these unanointed men, they have been given authority over you with the ability to judge your spiritual stand, before me.’ (Rom 6:16)  It is blasphemous, and never would have occurred in the first century.   (Gal 1:10)  (Isa 63:18; Dan 8:24)

For this reason, the Beast organization is destroyed. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Like your girl squad who tries to seize the priesthood by slaming Jehovah and his Christ.

When Hebrew was transliterated into Latin, it was transliterated Iehouáh because there is no J, Y, or V in Latin.  

You yourself claim "The use of (J) and or (Y) is most appropriate"

Those who reject and insult the use of Jehovah, also do the same to the names that bear witness to Jehovah. For instance, Jesus means 'Jehovah is Salvation.' Yet many oppose the name of 'Jesus' who is Jehovah's Christ. 

 

"Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah." Deuteronomy 6:4

"Look! My servant, whom I support! My chosen one, whom I have approved! I have put my spirit in him; He will bring justice to the nations." Isaiah 42:1

  • Jesus is Jehovah's Servant
  • Jesus was Chosen by Jehovah
  • Jesus was Approved by Jehovah
  • Jehovah put his spirit into Jesus
  • Jesus as King of God's Kingdom will bring justice to the nations

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-no2-2021-may-jun/

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2 hours ago, BroRando said:

Like your girl squad who tries to seize the priesthood by slaming Jehovah and his Christ.

When Hebrew was transliterated into Latin, it was transliterated Iehouáh because there is no J, Y, or V in Latin.  

You yourself claim "The use of (J) and or (Y) is most appropriate"

Those who reject and insult the use of Jehovah, also do the same to the names that bear witness to Jehovah. For instance, Jesus means 'Jehovah is Salvation.' Yet many oppose the name of 'Jesus' who is Jehovah's Christ. 

 

"Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah." Deuteronomy 6:4

"Look! My servant, whom I support! My chosen one, whom I have approved! I have put my spirit in him; He will bring justice to the nations." Isaiah 42:1

  • Jesus is Jehovah's Servant
  • Jesus was Chosen by Jehovah
  • Jesus was Approved by Jehovah
  • Jehovah put his spirit into Jesus
  • Jesus as King of God's Kingdom will bring justice to the nations

https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-no2-2021-may-jun/

I think you've got your people and which topic your commenting on, a little confused.

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    • An interesting concept, bible discipline. I am struck by the prevalence of ignorance about spiritual discipline on "Reddit." While physical and mental disciplines receive attention, the profound impact of spiritual discipline on a person's physical and mental well-being is often overlooked. Is it possible to argue against the words of the Apostle Paul? When he penned those words in Hebrews 12, he was recognizing that there are moments when an individual must be "rebuked" in order to be corrected. Even Jesus himself established a precedent when he rebuked Peter and referred to him as Satan for failing to comprehend what Jesus had already revealed to the apostles. Did that imply that Jesus had an evil heart? Not at all, it was quite the opposite; Jesus had a loving heart. His need to correct Peter actually showcased his genuine love for him. If he hadn't cared, he would have let Peter persist in his mistaken ways, leading to a fate similar to Judas'. There is a clear emphasis on avoiding the apostate translation and its meaning, yet many seem to overlook the biblical foundation for the reasons NOT to follow the path of the fallen brethren or those with an apostate mentality. Those individuals have embraced the path of darkness, where the illuminating power of light cannot penetrate, to avoid receiving the righteous discipline based on God's Bible teachings. They are undoubtedly aware that this undeniable truth of life must be disregarded in order to uphold their baseless justifications for the unjust act of shunning. Can anyone truly "force" someone or stop them from rejecting a friend or family member? Such a notion would be absurd, considering the fact that we all have the power of free will. If a Witness decides to distance themselves from a family member or friend simply because they have come out as gay, who is anyone within the organization to question or challenge that personal sentiment? It is unfortunate that there are individuals, both within and outside the organization, who not only lack a proper understanding of the Bible but also dare to suggest that God's discipline is barbaric. We must remember that personal choices should be respected, and it is not for others to judge or condemn someone based on their sexual orientation but should be avoided under biblical grounds. No one should have the power to compel an individual to change their sexual orientation, nor should anyone be forced to accept someone for who they are. When it comes to a family's desire to shield their children from external influences, who has the right to challenge the parents' decision? And if a family's rejection of others is based on cultural factors rather than religious beliefs, who can impose religious judgment on them? Who should true followers of Christ follow? The words of God or those who believe they can change God's laws to fit their lives? How can we apply the inspired words of Paul from God to embrace the reality of God's discipline? On the contrary, how can nonconformists expect to persuade those with a "worldview" that their religious beliefs are unacceptable by ostracizing individuals, when God condemns homosexuality? This is precisely why the arguments put forth by ex-witnesses are lacking in their pursuit of justice. When they employ misguided tactics, justice remains elusive as their arguments are either weak or inconsistent with biblical standards. Therefore, it is crucial to also comprehend Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 9:27. The use of the word "shun" is being exaggerated and excessively condemned by those who reject biblical shunning as a form of punishment. Eph 5:3-14 NIV 3 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. 4 Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. 5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person — such a man is an idolater — has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.  6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7 Therefore do not be partners with them.  8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light 9 (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) 10 and find out what pleases the Lord. 11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. 13 But everything exposed by the light becomes visible. The impact of the message becomes significantly stronger when we emphasize the importance of avoiding any association with unrighteousness and those who remain unrepentant. In fact, it becomes even more compelling when we witness how some individuals, who dismiss biblical shunning as a method of discipline, excessively criticize and condemn the use of the word "shun". Therefore, Jehovah's Witnesses do not shun people; instead, they choose to focus on the negative actions being committed, which is in accordance with biblical teachings. This should be construed as ex-Witness rhetoric. Now, let's consider why ex-Witnesses specifically target one particular religion. What justifications do they provide when other Christian denominations also adhere to the same principle grounded in the Bible? Chapter 1 - Preface Both must therefore test themselves: the one, if he is qualified to speak and leave behind him written records; the other, if he is in a right state to hear and read: as also some in the dispensation of the Eucharist, according to  custom enjoin that each one of the people individually should take his part. One's own conscience is best for choosing accurately or shunning. And its firm foundation is a right life, with suitable instruction. But the imitation of those who have already been proved, and who have led correct lives, is most excellent for the understanding and practice of the commandments. "So that whosoever shall eat the bread and drink the cup of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup."  It therefore follows, that every one of those who undertake to promote the good of their neighbours, ought to consider whether he has betaken himself to teaching rashly and out of rivalry to any; if his communication of the word is out of vainglory; if the the only reward he reaps is the salvation of those who hear, and if he speaks not in order to win favour: if so, he who speaks by writings escapes the reproach of mercenary motives. "For neither at any time used we flattering words, as ye know," says the apostle, "nor a cloak of covetousness. God is witness. Nor of men sought we glory, neither of you, nor yet of others, when we might have been burdensome as the apostles of Christ. But we were gentle among you, even as a nurse cherisheth her children."   (from Ante-Nicene Fathers, Volume 2) Divine promises 2. The manner of shunning, in the word escaping. There is a flying away required, and that quickly, as in the plague, or from a fire which hath almost burned us, or a flood that breaketh in upon us. We cannot soon enough escape from sin (Matt 3:7; Heb 6:18). No motion but flight becomes us in this case. Doctrine: That the great end and effect of the promises of the gospel is to make us partakers of the Divine nature. (from The Biblical Illustrator)  
    • Clearly, they are already demanding your exile. Yes! It's unfortunate that Pudgy spoiled a great discussion about science. I hope the discussion can continue without any more nonsensical interruptions. Just a suggestion since they are on your heels. Wow! You speak! It seems you have a lot to say! Now they are going to treat like, who do you think you are, mister big stuff! Are those aliens now going to imply that anyone who speaks out against the five or six key contributors to this site will be treated as though it is George just because those in opposition speak the language they hate to hear, the TRUTH? They are seeking individuals who will embrace their nonconformist values and appreciate what they can offer in shaping public opinion contrary to the established agenda of God and Christ. Their goal is to enhance their writing abilities and avoid squandering time on frivolous pursuits, mainly arguing about the truth they don't care for. They see it all as a mere game, even when leading people astray. They believe they have every right to and will face no biblical repercussions, or so they believe. They just want to have fun just like that Cyndi Lauper song. Be prepared to be belittled and ridiculed, all the while they claim to be angels. Haha! By the way, please refrain from using the same language as George. They appear to believe that when others use the same words, it means they are the same person, and they emphasize this as if no one else is allowed to use similar grammar. It seems they think only they have the right to use the same or similar writing styles. Quite amusing, isn't it? See, what I just placed in bold, now I'm George, lol! Now, let's leave this nice science thread for people that want to know more about science. I believe George left it at "Zero Distance."  
    • Nice little thread you’ve got going here, SciTech. It would be a shame if something were to happen to it.
    • It's truly disheartening when someone who is supposed to be a friend of the exclusive group resorts to using profanity in their comments, just like other members claiming to be witnesses. It's quite a ludicrous situation for the public to witness.  Yet, the "defense" of such a person, continues. 
    • No. However, I would appreciate if you do not reveal to all and sundry the secret meeting place of the closed club. (I do feel someone bad stomping on Sci’s little thread. But I see that has already happened.)
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    • lauleb  »  misette

      merci pour ton travail très utile. tu es une aide qui fortifie
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    • Pamela Dunston  »  T.B. (Twyla)

      Hi, TB
      I would like to get the weekly meeting and watchtower materials  and the 2024 convention 
      Attend the 2024 Convention—“Declare the Good News!”
      notebook, I just recently got a new computer, If don't mind my brother to add me on and allow me access to our study again.
       
      Thank you, so much
      Sister Dunston
      · 1 reply
    • SpiritualSister 24  »  DARLENE2022

      Hello, Darlene, I just love your name, I had a cousin named Darline, and had a classmate also named Darlene! It's a pleasure to know another Darlene! Especially a Spiritual Sister! There's some websites, Ministry Ideaz , JW Stuff.com, and Etsy that I use to order my yearly buttons for the Conventions! They always send me what I order, and their also Jehovah's Witnesses, that send us the merchandise we order!  You can check out these websites, and they might have what your looking for! I hope I have been helpful in assisting you, Darlene! Agape love, Shirley!😀
      · 1 reply
    • SpiritualSister 24

      2024"Enter Into God's Rest" Circuit Assembly! 
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    • Janice Lewis  »  T.B. (Twyla)

      Hello Twyla, when will the weekly study material be available. I am a member.
      Janice Lewis     lewisjanice84@gmail.com
      Thank you
      · 1 reply
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