THE WATCHTOWER HISTORY OF GOG OF MAGOG

[Witness]

5 hours ago, Dmitar said:

What do we have instead?

Elders (1:5–9)

"An elder must be blameless, the husband of one wife, with faithful children who are not accused of wildness or rebellion. 7 As an overseer of God’s household, he must be blameless, not arrogant, not hot-tempered, not an excessive drinker, not a bully, not greedy for money, 8 but hospitable, loving what is good, sensible, righteous, holy, self-controlled, 9 holding to the faithful message as taught, so that he will be able both to encourage with sound teaching and to refute those who contradict it."  Titus 1:6-9

God's household: 

"you yourselves, as living stones, a spiritual house, are being built to be a holy priesthood to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ."  1 Pet 2:5

"For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people."  Heb 8:10

Spiritual house: 

"So, then, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with the saints, and members of God’s household, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the cornerstone. 21 In him the whole building, being put together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 22 In him you are also being built together for God’s dwelling in the Spirit."  Eph 2:20-22

Holy Temple: 

"And what agreement does the temple of God have with idols? For we are the temple of the living God, as God said: I will dwell and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people." 2 Cor 6:16

"Don’t you yourselves know that you are God’s temple and that the Spirit of God lives in you?"  1 Cor 3:16

God's temple is God's spiritual house of "Israel"  - God's household of "saints"/living stones.  God's household is made up of the anointed priesthood under their High Priest, Jesus Christ. 

"Therefore, brothers and sisters, since we have boldness to enter the sanctuary through the blood of Jesus— 20 he has inaugurated for us a new and living way through the curtain (that is, through his flesh)— 21 and since we have a great high priest over the house of God"  Heb 10:19-21

Were uncircumcised Gentiles or foreigners allowed in God's Temple?  Never. (Ezek 44:6-9)   The elder body of the Watchtower is by far not comprised of anointed priests who have received "circumcision of the heart". (Rom 2:29)  The scriptures about elders are referring to those who oversee "God's household" as anointed "saints".  

 

 

 

 

 

[Dmitar]

31 minutes ago, Witness said:

so that he will be able both to encourage with sound teaching and to refute those who contradict it." 

My point exactly. How can a person such as yourself, be blameless in the eyes of God, when you treat his words with contradiction? How can Pearl Doxsey claim to be anointed, and yet is insubordinate to Christ teachings? It is not just a matter of quoting scripture, but applying it in its proper context and understanding. It does God no good to be complacent in your quest to be a proper Christian. You need to behave like one at all times, even here.

How do those text you quoted not apply to spiritual leaders, and the reputable men.

Acts 6:3 Amplified Bible (AMP) Therefore, brothers, choose from among you seven men with good reputations [men of godly character and moral integrity], full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we may put in charge of this task. Acts 6:3 The Passion Translation (TPT) We want you to carefully select from among yourselves seven godly men.

Are you judging that institution's governing body? By whose authority do you judge, and why haven't you used that same authority to judge other institutions, such as the Catholic governing body, the Holy See?

[Dmitar]

1 hour ago, Matthew9969 said:

Gog just emailed me, he said he's gonna have to put things on hold, this D-matar was causing a back log in research and development.

If you received an email, it certainly wasn't from God. Maybe your God of this world, but not the one and only true God in Heaven. You should show some more respect for your creator. Especially when defiling and perverting his name in vain. There's one too many sad thinking funny people here. 

I don't accept it from Jehovah's Witnesses using his name here, why should I accept it from a corrupt mind?

“You must not misuse the name of the LORD your God. The LORD will not let you go unpunished if you misuse his name.” 2. Exodus 20:7 “You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold guiltless anyone who takes his name in vain.”

[Srecko Sostar]

8 hours ago, Dmitar said:

To what end are you referring? Did Jesus hold his miracles in secret? How about the apostles? They were full of God's Holy Spirit. But, we don't have Jesus and the apostles to literally show us the power of God's grace. What do we have instead?

Elders (1:5–9)

The first subject of this letter provided Titus with instructions concerning church leaders. Verse 5 states Titus’s task, and the following verses in the paragraph identify the character qualities needed in the new leaders.

Titus was to appoint leaders in every place where there was a group of believers. Probably the entire congregation selected these leaders with the encouragement of Titus. He had the official responsibility, as a representative of Paul, to appoint them to office.

How can you qualify an "overseer" as?

From what has been written, I conclude that everyone in that "group of believers" was full of the Holy Spirit, not just those with some or specific titles (elder, priest, missioner, CO, GB and similar). If all and every members of the congregation were full of spirit, so they chose some for a some task, why should I or anyone else conclude that a few elected have become a body that has the power to decide what is true and what is false?

[Dmitar]

1 hour ago, Srecko Sostar said:

From what has been written, I conclude that everyone in that "group of believers" was full of the Holy Spirit, not just those with some or specific titles (elder, priest, missioner, CO, GB and similar). If all and every members of the congregation were full of spirit, so they chose some for a some task, why should I or anyone else conclude that a few elected have become a body that has the power to decide what is true and what is false?

The simple answer, look closely at your post. Did Jesus not decide who the apostles were going to be? Did Paul not relegate that task to Titus, and Titus to have the churches appoint their spiritual leaders? What does scripture represent, and who contributed to those decisions?

A Farewell Journey (Acts 20:1-5), A warning about the future (vv. 28-38). Paul brought his farewell message to a close by warning the leaders of the dangers they had to recognize and deal with if they were to protect and lead the church. Never underestimate the great importance of the church. The church is important to God the Father because His name is on it - "the church of God." It is important to the Son because He shed His blood for it, and it is important to the Holy Spirit because He is calling and equipping people to minister to the church. It is a serious thing to be a spiritual leader in the church of the living God.

To begin with, there are dangers around us, "wolves" that want to ravage the flock (Acts 20:29). Paul was referring to false teachers, the counterfeits who exploit the church for personal gain (Matt 7:15-23; 10:16; Luke 10:3; 2 Peter 2:1-3). How, important it is that believers know the Word of God and be able to detect and defeat these religious racketeers.

Also, the institution you are referring to, doesn't elect their spiritual leaders, they get appointed. Just like the Body of Christ has many parts, so do spiritual leaders have many task and responsibilities. That goes for "all" structured institutions and governments.

[Srecko Sostar]

1 hour ago, Dmitar said:

The simple answer, look closely at your post. Did Jesus not decide who the apostles were going to be?

Would that mean that Jesus decided that Judas should be an apostle-traitor?

1 hour ago, Dmitar said:

Also, the institution you are referring to, doesn't elect their spiritual leaders, they get appointed.

All the processes within this actions ( have one outcome - someone is in a position above the layman.

 

 

[Dmitar]

23 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Would that mean that Jesus decided that Judas should be an apostle-traitor?

Did Jesus decide or did Judas decide to betray Jesus? Jesus saw the good in him, Judas decided to accept the dark side. Do you want to blame Jesus for Judas betrayal, just like you want to blame structured institutions?

29 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

All the processes within this actions ( have one outcome - someone is in a position above the layman.

Then you should know by your own post of the past, the institution you refer to, appoint, not elect their spiritual leaders. How would you qualify your parents, school teachers, workmates, etc. Didn't these individuals have a degree of being teachers or taking orders from others? We all have to obey something, one way or another. The difference is, within spirituality, you're pleasing God while gaining salvation. Can a government or a false religion set you in that path of salvation? 

If your answer is yes. Give me an example of such an institution not doing God's work that will lead people into salvation. How about an individual exercising hate of an institution, spiritual leaders while claiming to be anointed. Do you honestly believe God's Holy Spirit flows in such a person in order to lead individuals into salvation?

[Srecko Sostar]

13 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

Did Jesus decide or did Judas decide to betray Jesus? Jesus saw the good in him, Judas decided to accept the dark side. Do you want to blame Jesus for Judas betrayal, just like you want to blame structured institutions?

Thanks for the explanation. So the logic would be this: Jesus chose a certain structure in people who call themselves Christians, e.g. WTJWorg, because at the time of their appointment they were the best candidates. After a while, these people and their associates after them chose to interpret the Bible as they wished. Are they still appointed or dismissed?

18 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

the institution you refer to, appoint, not elect their spiritual leaders.

Result is the same, whatever words you choose to use.

20 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

We all have to obey something, one way or another.

True.

21 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

The difference is, within spirituality, you're pleasing God while gaining salvation.

The spirituality you associate with devotion to the Organization is a recipe for disaster, or at least disappointments. Because the Organization is made up, in the context of WTJWorg, of the people who govern, rule the spirituality of the members. Such a thing is not a request of God but of those who claim to “represent” God.

25 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

Can a government or a false religion set you in that path of salvation? 

Yes, when they give you a warning of an impending tsunami or hurricane etc.

[Matthew9969]

9 hours ago, Dmitar said:

If you received an email, it certainly wasn't from God. Maybe your God of this world, but not the one and only true God in Heaven. You should show some more respect for your creator. Especially when defiling and perverting his name in vain. There's one too many sad thinking funny people here. 

I don't accept it from Jehovah's Witnesses using his name here, why should I accept it from a corrupt mind?

“You must not misuse the name of the LORD your God. The LORD will not let you go unpunished if you misuse his name.” 2. Exodus 20:7 “You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold guiltless anyone who takes his name in vain.”

Read my post again simpleton.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

5 hours ago, Dmitar said:

Can a government or a false religion set you in that path of salvation? 

This is sooooo funny.  Dimmy you have given us all the big clue here.  False religion = JW Org.

So no, of course the JW Org or their GB cannot set anyone in the path of salvation.

BUT they teach that they can.  One lie after another  They teach falsehoods and false predictions.

Then they throw out people that question them. 

Have a nice day................... 

 

[Dmitar]

8 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

After a while, these people and their associates after them chose to interpret the Bible as they wished. Are they still appointed or dismissed?

Remember, this is your interpretation? Not facts entered by that institution's overall actions of wanting to apply Jesus first century teachings. You are the one calling the shots by judgement on what you believe God has dismissed.

Yet, you don't apply these same principles to other Christian religions, why?

8 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Result is the same, whatever words you choose to use.

Yes, scripture gives you the same result by God's Holy Spirit when it's not obscured driven by man's judgmental own interpretation.

9 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

The spirituality you associate with devotion to the Organization is a recipe for disaster, or at least disappointments.

An institution is there to fortify a "gathering" of Christians in unity by their church. What kind of disaster do you believe the first century churches had that lead to their disappointment in Christ and the apostles?

9 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Because the Organization is made up, in the context of WTJWorg, of the people who govern, rule the spirituality of the members. Such a thing is not a request of God but of those who claim to “represent” God.

Can you explain, how the first century churches and their spiritual leaders didn't govern their own spirituality for their members, and those churches didn't represent Christ Church and God?

9 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Yes, when they give you a warning of an impending tsunami or hurricane etc.

Yes, yes indeed. Now, can they give you eternal life? Remember, we are speaking of scripture when the word salvation is used and is interpreted as such. Remember your own words, can this interpretation of the word "salvation" have the same result?

[Dmitar]

5 hours ago, Matthew9969 said:

Read my post again simpleton.

I don't need to reread a foolish comment that defiles God's personal name. It's bad enough Jehovah Witnesses use it here by being representatives of God by their namesake, and then defile it by their own politics and behavior here. You are in league with @Patiently waiting for Truth, and @Pudgy to, only want to fight by being rude and obnoxious to sway the conversation to your kind of prevailing dark side. This is a sad pattern set by foolish people.