THE WATCHTOWER HISTORY OF GOG OF MAGOG

[Dmitar]

5 minutes ago, Witness said:

On the Wt's website, the words "governing body" and "apostles" are mentioned in the same article, 523 times.  192 times in the same paragraph; 119 times in the same sentence.  The seed was planted early on, that the present Governing Body, are today's apostles. 

It appears you are trying to answer a critical question for yourself. Can you explain how titles make that assumption of being an apostle, since Christ and God's Holy Spirit gave the apostles a great power to prove Christ mission, way beyond what, Pastors, Elders, Fathers, Reverends, Cardinals, Bishops, Popes etc. have today, yet the Catholic Church endorses such vision for its Bishops and Pope?

[Dmitar]

25 minutes ago, Witness said:

I'd hate to be in the shoes of the GB when they face not only Jesus Christ, but his genuine apostles.  Jesus said to them, "Most certainly I tell you that you who have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of Man will sit on the throne of his glory, you also will sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."  Matt  19:28

I believe scripture mentions what will happen to those that lead God's sheep astray. I don't think anyone would want to be in that position, not even here. Yet, you find it even with Jehovah Witnesses here. Are you suggesting "all" Jehovah Witnesses behave the same way as they do here? Some people even accused Jesus of doing the same in 1 John 4:6.

How did Jesus respond to that accusation? Matthew 22:29

A Good Minister, Preaching the Word (1 Tim. 4:1-6)

They lead people astray (v. 1 b). Their goal is to seduce people and get them to depart from the faith. This is the word apostasy, and it is defined as "a willful turning away from the truth of the Christian faith." These false teachers do not try to build up the church or relate people to the Lord Jesus Christ in a deeper way.

 

[Srecko Sostar]

On 1/7/2022 at 8:03 AM, Dmitar said:

The same outcome could be said and applied to your influence, and it should be guarded against, then.

Of course. But because of our mutual disagreement, I will not stop greeting you if we meet on the street.

On 1/7/2022 at 8:03 AM, Dmitar said:

There are several Religious forums here. I have not seen you post on those Christian forums. Just because this forum stipulates JW open forum should not be an excuse to vilify just one institution. If your problem is with Christianity, then treat all Christian institutions the same, here or anywhere where your animosity is projected.

 If my participation with just one article can refute your claim I will be glad. :)) 

Vatican issues Vademecum: procedures regarding cases of sexual abuse of minors

Srecko Sostar posted a topic in Catholicism's Topics

On 1/7/2022 at 8:03 AM, Dmitar said:

You are projecting your personal feeling, since you have lost a faith you once had.

Normally. So who would be smart to believe, to put faith in any nonsense from WTJWorg?

11 hours ago, Dmitar said:

@Srecko Sostar I noticed you agree with witness. If you're ready to act on your own behalf and reenter the conversation, please do so. Don't project your sentiment on the words of others.

An emoticon tagging system is something you use in abundance because you most often use a down vote emoticon. Projecting of your sentiments?  

 

[Witness]

This is the link to the article mentioned here, “The Remaining Ones”, by Pearl Doxsey who does not “subscribe” to any one tool that is readily available on the internet for a sincere Bible student’s use. 

The Remaining Ones 

There is no money-making scheme that Pearl and all the disciples of Christ who read and share her articles, are involved in.  There are no donations taken, no member role, no tallying of hours in a preaching work, no construction of massive building efforts, no rigid program that must be held to, no answering to men, no involvement in politics, or investments in the stock market or hedge funds  - no earthly organization.   There is nothing but spiritual food offered to those who care to read it, and have their questions answered.  The rest is up to the individual and their relationship with God and Jesus Christ. 

“For we are not as so many, peddling the word of God. But as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God, we speak in Christ.” 2 Cor 2:17

Here is a link for any who desire to understand who inherit the earth,

Judgment of "Heaven" and "Earth"

 

[Witness]

Wt 13/1/15 pg 27-31 “Rather than making rigid rules for the congregation, ELDERS rely on Scriptural principles and direction from Jehovah’s organization. After all, present-day elders are not the masters over their brothers’ faith.—1 Pet. 5:2, 3

In reality, scriptural principles are basically ignored, while direction from the organization dictates every working aspect of the Watchtower. We have proof of this with the leaders’ resolve to barely bend their rigid rules with child molestation cases. (Isa 10:1,2)  They are without a doubt cruel masters over the faith of each JW through their restrictive decrees that conflict with the ordinances of the true God, founded on love and righteousness. ( Isa 29:13;Hab 1:4; 2 Cor 11:4,20;Col 2:20-22; Ps 89:14-17)

As a result, it is absolutely clear the organization does not follow God’s laws outlined by Christ and verified by scripture. Remembering that the governing body admit they are NOT INSPIRED by God’s Holy Spirit, (Wt 2017/2) Anthony Morris stated that the “theocratic organization” receives its decisions or “decrees” from God. 

Quote: “When that direction comes out to Branch committee members, or when it comes out to the congregations; IF you want Jehovah’s blessing ON YOU as an individual or family, certainly as an ELDER or congregation, it’d be best to ask Jehovah to help you understand it, BUT OBEY THE DECISION.” (Joel 2:7)

The scriptures are set.  We are not to add or take away from them.  The foundation of truth is outlined in Eph 2:20-22.  That foundation is comprised of Jesus Christ and the 12 apostles.  THAT’S IT.  

Deut 4:2: “You shall NOT ADD TO the word which I command you, NOR TAKE FROM IT, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.”

For any anointed ones who compare themselves and their earthly organization to the apostles and a fabricated earthly organization, by simply saying "like the apostles"... and who believe they can set decrees outside of the Temple of Truth, they are false apostles who have set their own foundation based on lies. 

2 John 1:9-11 - "Whoever transgresses and doesn’t remain in the teaching of Christ, doesn’t have God. He who remains in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you, and doesn’t bring this teaching, don’t receive him into your house, and don’t welcome him, 11 for he who welcomes him participates in his evil deeds."

If we claim we remain in the teachings of Christ, we would not at any point add our own decrees based on our own earthly fleshy desires to rule over individuals who must support an idol - "Jehovah's organization".  This is perversion of what is written in the Bible.  (Rom 1:25; Rev 13:4,15)

Gal 1:6-10 - "I marvel that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ to a different “good news”, 7 but there isn’t another “good news.” Only there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the Good News of Christ. 8 But even though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you any “good news” other than that which we preached to you, let him be cursed. 9 As we have said before, so I now say again: if any man preaches to you any “good news” other than that which you received, let him be cursed. 10 For am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? Or am I striving to please men? For if I were still pleasing men, I wouldn’t be a servant of Christ."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dmitar]

4 hours ago, Witness said:

There is no money-making scheme that Pearl and all the disciples of Christ who read and share her articles, are involved in.  There are no donations taken, no member role, no tallying of hours in a preaching work, no construction of massive building efforts, no rigid program that must be held to, no answering to men, no involvement in politics, or investments in the stock market or hedge funds  - no earthly organization.   There is nothing but spiritual food offered to those who care to read it, and have their questions answered.  The rest is up to the individual and their relationship with God and Jesus Christ. 

This opinion is your own. It indicates that the 4woman does indeed involve itself  and benefits from others.

[Dmitar]

2 hours ago, Witness said:

In reality, scriptural principles are basically ignored, while direction from the organization dictates every working aspect of the Watchtower. We have proof of this with the leaders’ resolve to barely bend their rigid rules with child molestation cases.

Here’s the thing, you are voicing your concerns without answering my concerns. You fail to supply an answer on why visitors here should not deem other religions culpable by your standard of understanding scripture that would include your "anointed" spiritual leader? You just posted her blog as reference. Her words of the 144,000 thousand are earthbound is a "false" projection by Bible standard. How is it that she is any different if we apply your words "In reality, scriptural principles are basically ignored"?

2 hours ago, Witness said:

As a result, it is absolutely clear the organization does not follow God’s laws outlined by Christ and verified by scripture.

Neither Pearl Doxsey and it appears you have a conflict of interest not to apply scripture in its proper context.

How do you personally avoid such pitfalls for visitors here?

2 hours ago, Witness said:

Anthony Morris stated that the “theocratic organization” receives its decisions or “decrees” from God. 

How do you see this as a false representation? Are you saying, Jesus mislead the apostles? In the O.T. how did God communicate to receive his decrees? In the N.T. how did Jesus instruct the apostles to make decisions?

Are you going to misuse the words of scripture like @Srecko Sostar does by misusing words?

SPIRITUAL GIFTS

 Paul described as follows the grandest of all grace-gifts, which stands in opposition to earned wages: "the free gift [chárisma] of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Rom 6:23). In Acts 2:38 the Holy Spirit, the energizing giver of gifts, is Itself (the Greek noun is neuter, but personhood is clearly assumed) called "the gift" (dœréa) received by those who repent and are baptized. Paul stated in 1 Cor 12:11 that the (given and received) Holy Spirit bestows differing gifts within the body of Christ: "all these [various

charísmata] are inspired by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills." And yet Eph 4:11 says that Christ's gifts were "that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers."

Shouldn't an anointed decide after prayerful care and consideration through God's Holy Spirit? Can you explain why this is wrong for you, and why it shouldn't apply to your anointed one pearl doxsey and other Christian Churches?

2 hours ago, Witness said:

For any anointed ones who compare themselves and their earthly organization to the apostles and a fabricated earthly organization, by simply saying "like the apostles"... and who believe they can set decrees outside of the Temple of Truth, they are false apostles who have set their own foundation based on lies. 

Once again, more of the same projection. Perhaps by understanding why Christians should not hold animosity is for this just reason.

AMP Eph 4:31

 31 Let all bitterness and indignation and wrath (passion, rage, bad temper) and resentment (anger, animosity) and quarreling (brawling, clamor, contention) and slander (evil-speaking, abusive or blasphemous language) be banished from you, with all malice (spite, ill will, or baseness of any kind).

Can you explain how you are obeying scripture and your anointed Pearl Doxsey, by being loyal to God with this kind of attitude?

You have not answered my concern about Pearl Doxsey's understanding of the earthbound 144,000 thousand. Wouldn't that make her a false prophet by your standards?

Her husband appears to idolize this person. Is this the same as venerating someone?

2 hours ago, Witness said:

If we claim we remain in the teachings of Christ, we would not at any point add our own decrees based on our own earthly fleshy desires to rule over individuals who must support an idol - "Jehovah's organization". 

How does this concern not apply to you, Pearl Doxsey and other Christian Churches? It is clear, to the visitors, Christ teachings are being compromised here.

[Witness]

37 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

This opinion is your own. It indicates that the 4woman does indeed involve itself  and benefits from others.

It doesn't indicate that at all.  You are too use to the way religion today is run.  You expect money to be involved; spiritual food to be bought with outlined donations and slavery, as expected by the organization you belong to.  (Rev 13:11,12,14-18) But it isn't what Jesus admonished for his followers.  (Matt 6:20-24; Luke 12:15; 1 Tim 6:6-12) If you don't believe me, why don't you email her and ask DIRECTLY if she makes money off of those who read her blogs?  Her email is on the blog.  

Isaiah 55

 

 

[Dmitar]

15 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Of course. But because of our mutual disagreement, I will not stop greeting you if we meet on the street.

Thank you. We would meet as strangers, not Christian brothers. If you were to invite me to a pub, I would refuse. The same thing can be said about Jehovah witnesses here.

15 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

If my participation with just one article can refute your claim I will be glad. :)) 

Let me clarify my words. Praising the Vatican for a stance is not the same as you vilifying this institution you hold animosity toward.

15 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Normally. So who would be smart to believe, to put faith in any nonsense from WTJWorg?

Can this be said about your personal belief, then? Now, how does your belief not apply to other churches, including the 4woman group?

15 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

An emoticon tagging system is something you use in abundance because you most often use a down vote emoticon. Projecting of your sentiments?

Glad you understand being an adult with a discussion is a lot better than projecting your feelings though others.

It's sad when you have people like @Patiently waiting for Truth conducting himself uncivilly that makes a discussion impossible. There has to be an adult in the room.

 

[Dmitar]

17 minutes ago, Witness said:

It doesn't indicate that at all.  You are too use to the way religion today is run.  You expect money to be involved; spiritual food to be bought with outlined donations and slavery, as expected by the organization you belong to.  (Rev 13:11,12,14-18) But it isn't what Jesus admonished for his followers.  (Matt 6:20-24; Luke 12:15; 1 Tim 6:6-12) If you don't believe me, why don't you email her and ask DIRECTLY if she makes money off of those who read her blogs?  Her email is on the blog.  

The word you're looking for is, endorsement. I have no desire to be misled. Thank you.

[Srecko Sostar]

19 hours ago, Witness said:

Wt 13/1/15 pg 27-31 “Rather than making rigid rules for the congregation, ELDERS rely on Scriptural principles and direction from Jehovah’s organization.

It is interesting to note here that "scriptural principles" are mentioned. How can principles be drawn from a Bible passage or passage? In many ways. But, the "only correct" way is for the elders to explain it to you, because a layman can make a wrong conclusion if he/she read the Bible by himself/herself, right? :))

Now, who explains to the elders what the principles are? Well, it is clear that this can only come from "Jehovah's organization", they say in WTJWorg. What is "Jehovah's Organization"? In this context, but also in most other contexts, it is the Supreme Church Body aka GB. 

Of course we have Samuel Herd, one of GB Director who recently argues/claims that YHVH does not always/many times allow GB to see the meaning of what is written in the Bible, no matter how much they reading and praying for illumination. 

How many years does it take for YHVH to "allow proper understanding" as they say? And what should be called “inappropriate/wrong understanding,” which in the meantime governs decisions based on “unbiblical principles”? 

Some representatives of several JW stream/tendency on this forum, such as @Dmitar, forget that their principles are influenced by WTJWorg unprincipledness.

[Witness]

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

It is interesting to note here that "scriptural principles" are mentioned. How can principles be drawn from a Bible passage or passage? In many ways. But, the "only correct" way is for the elders to explain it to you, because a layman can make a wrong conclusion if he/she read the Bible by himself/herself, right? :))

Thank you for clarifying that for me.  I was taking it for granted that scriptural principles would be based solely, clearly, on the truth they hold, and that they would remain that way.  A "principle" can mean "a fundamental truth or proposition that serves as the foundation for a system of belief or behavior or for a chain of reasoning.

The GB make use of a scriptural principle, such as "preaching the good news", but change the message to support their chain of reasoning - the doctrine of men.  If we consider the message preached over the years, with all of its dates and rotten teachings, the message is determined at the time by the mental behavior of the leadership; actually, deceptions created in their own minds, without the spiritual guidance of God.  (Jer 14:14; Matt 16:6)  As you say, their teachings are proven to be "unbiblical principles".