THE WATCHTOWER HISTORY OF GOG OF MAGOG

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

11 hours ago, Dmitar said:

I wonder if there will be any civil discussions here in this forum. It is clear, no one here can stop being rude and obnoxious to have a sensible Christian debate.

However, former Witnesses here disparage their former institution while using conduct unbecoming a true follower of Christ. How is this behavior not questionable?

In truth Dimmy, you do not want civil discussion. You just want to find fault in others.  The scriptures tell us that no one can bridle the tongue, because we are ALL imperfect.  

However, what i do read here is people having their own opinions. Whereas you don't seem to have an opinion, you just ask question upon question upon question, just to annoy people.  

As a former JW I admit to having faults, faults to the point of not expecting to gain entry to that 'New World'.  However I am NOT trying to lead thousands of people by telling lies. I am not pretending that God or Christ 'trusts me'. 

The GB that you serve pretend that God and Christ 'trust them'. That same GB have given themselves the title of 'Faithful and Discreet Slave'.  That same GB are standing on top of the True Anointed remnant. That same GB are stating that those of the Anointed would be 'working against God's Hol Spirit' if those of the Anointed should gather together in prayer or Bible study. 

So Dimmy, How are those things not questionable ??????????? 

I use Jesus as my example. Jesus was not frightened to show people up for what they really were. 

You will know the words that Jesus used regarding the Pharisees. You will know that Jesus threw the wicked ones out of the temple.  In fact I think you would have accused Jesus of not being civil at that time. 

We are supposed to follow the example of Jesus Christ. Love what is good, hate what is bad. 

[Witness]

On 1/10/2022 at 7:42 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

How many years does it take for YHVH to "allow proper understanding" as they say? And what should be called “inappropriate/wrong understanding,” which in the meantime governs decisions based on “unbiblical principles”? 

...forget that their principles are influenced by WTJWorg unprincipledness.

I just read Zeph 3 this morning - 

Zeph 3 - Woe to the city of oppressors,
    rebellious and defiled!
² She obeys no one,
    she accepts no correction.
She does not trust in the Lord,
    she does not draw near to her God.
³ Her officials within her
    are roaring lions;
her rulers are evening wolves,
    who leave nothing for the morning.
⁴ Her prophets are unprincipled;
    they are treacherous people.
Her priests profane the sanctuary
    and do violence to the law. (Ezek 44:6-9..."representing the royal priesthood...")
 

Matt 7: 15 “Be on your guard against false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravaging wolves.”

Matt 24:24,25 – “For false messiahs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. ²⁵ Take note: I have told you in advance.”

2 Pet 3 -  ^15 “And regard the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as also our dear brother Paul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him, ¹⁶ speaking of these things in all his letters. Some things in these letters are hard to understand, things the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they also do to the rest of the scriptures. ¹⁷ Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard that you do not get led astray by the error of these unprincipled men and fall from your firm grasp on the truth.”

Paul related, “I know that after I am gone fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. ³⁰ Even from among your own group men will arise, teaching perversions of the truth to draw the disciples away after them.”

…leading astray, “even the elect”.  Matt 24:24

 

 

 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

18 hours ago, Dmitar said:

This would be your projection of this institution. How did the apostles convey their spirituality if it didn't come directly from God? 

How about not making assumptions to the visitor with your personal animosity.

Are you explaining to the public, people like Pearl Doxsey convey the 4woman spirituality through their blogs?

Can it be said, that the Pope is conveying his spirituality through the Vatican as a single man?

So please, can spirituality be found only in religion and religious ideology / theology?

The correct answer to this question also answers the others you ask. 

18 hours ago, Dmitar said:

Would this be more projection for unwilling to understand the words of a spiritual leader?

Not. It just means that the listener realizes how much delusion there is in Samuel Herd’s spirituality.

18 hours ago, Dmitar said:

Can you explain to the visitor, who gave you the power to challenge God?

So you're saying the confrontation with Samuel Herd and GB is a confrontation with God personally? How far you are ready to go with such perspective?

 

[Dmitar]

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

So please, can spirituality be found only in religion and religious ideology / theology?

Are you referring to other religions or Christianity?

Jesus began Christianity as a path to one's own personal salvation. Jesus paid a heavy price to include everyone that would accept his sacrifice and repent. Can you give me an example of what other religion promotes the same theology? Now, how do you believe the 4woman group is promoting spirituality with weakness and not implementing scripture correctly?

That doesn't answer my question, but rather gives room for more questions.

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Not. It just means that the listener realizes how much delusion there is in Samuel Herd’s spirituality.

Why should anyone listen to the words of a person that holds animosity, and rejects the foundation of Christianity?

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

So you're saying the confrontation with Samuel Herd and GB is a confrontation with God personally? How far you are ready to go with such perspective?

Did I? Can you explain how manipulating the context of other people's words is a good perspective? How does this view dismiss your challenge toward God? 

 

[Dmitar]

AMP: Matt 5:22

22 But I say to you that everyone who continues to be angry with his brother or harbors malice (enmity of heart) against him shall be liable to and unable to escape the punishment imposed by the court; and whoever speaks contemptuously and insultingly to his brother shall be liable to and unable to escape the punishment imposed by the Sanhedrin, and whoever says, You cursed fool! [You empty-headed idiot!] shall be liable to and unable to escape the hell (Gehenna) of fire. 

[Srecko Sostar]

7 hours ago, Dmitar said:

Are you referring to other religions or Christianity?

Jesus began Christianity as a path to one's own personal salvation. Jesus paid a heavy price to include everyone that would accept his sacrifice and repent. Can you give me an example of what other religion promotes the same theology? Now, how do you believe the 4woman group is promoting spirituality with weakness and not implementing scripture correctly?

That doesn't answer my question, but rather gives room for more questions.

I am of the opinion that spirituality is not something that is related only to religion. That quality is part of other life activities, too.
But as we focus here on religious spirituality, then it is important to reiterate that spirituality can be good and bad. What was the spirituality like when WTJWorg celebrated Christmas, for example among so many other examples? Today, WTJWorg would say that it was a time when "they did not understand Bible principles accurately."  What was their spirituality like at the time? What was wrong? Celebrate Jesus ’birthday or celebrate it on the wrong date? But, from the aspect of that period, celebrating Jesus in that way was proof that WTJWorg has "spirituality", right? Today, WTJWorg would say that celebrating Jesus ’birthday is a pagan custom. The conclusion is self-evident; The origin of the spirituality of the religion that celebrates Jesus ’birthday is “pagan spirituality”.

When WTJWorg teaches “overlapping generation”, today, it is part of the "present spirituality" of WTJWorg and every JW member. Believing in delusion is also “spirituality,” right? On the other hand, you want to convince us that believing in an absurd thesis is Jesus ’path of salvation. 

7 hours ago, Dmitar said:

Did I? Can you explain how manipulating the context of other people's words is a good perspective? How does this view dismiss your challenge toward God? 

Religious leaders manipulate with the context and single verse of the Bible. And people who believe in it and actively preach delusions are the disciples of their teachers.

[Dmitar]

10 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I am of the opinion that spirituality is not something that is related only to religion. That quality is part of other life activities, too.

This would mean by what people think spirituality is defined by. A Wicca individual can claim they feel the spirit of the four corners of the earth. Satanist can claim they feel the spiritual power of Satan.

10 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

But as we focus here on religious spirituality, then it is important to reiterate that spirituality can be good and bad. What was the spirituality like when WTJWorg celebrated Christmas, for example among so many other examples?

You are correct. We are discussing the implementation of Christianity by Christ. Can you give me a prime example, "when WTJWorg celebrated Christmas? 

10 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Today, WTJWorg would say that it was a time when "they did not understand Bible principles accurately." 

You have me at a lost. Can you give me a prime example when you believe the WTJWorg celebrated Christmas and then found out they were mistaken?

10 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Today, WTJWorg would say that celebrating Jesus ’birthday is a pagan custom. The conclusion is self-evident; The origin of the spirituality of the religion that celebrates Jesus ’birthday is “pagan spirituality”.

History shows how Constantine combined Paganism with Christianity to keep everyone happy. I understand it became a "tradition" at that point for churches to celebrate the birth and resurrection of Christ. Can you give me a biblical text where Jesus stipulated Christians should honor those traditions?

I recall, after Apostle John died, Christianity became a free for all. A scathing shadow of its former self by rejecting sound commands for the Jewish and Gentile nations to live by. Instead, they profaned those teachings in quest of man's own authority. This is why "true" Christianity was lost for millennia.

10 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

When WTJWorg teaches “overlapping generation”, today, it is part of the "present spirituality" of WTJWorg and every JW member. Believing in delusion is also “spirituality,” right? On the other hand, you want to convince us that believing in an absurd thesis is Jesus ’path of salvation. 

This projection gives me the impression you don't believe Jesus is the pathway to salvation. That is something you will have to decide.

10 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Religious leaders manipulate with the context and single verse of the Bible. And people who believe in it and actively preach delusions are the disciples of their teachers.

If you were a teacher. Wouldn't these words apply to you? However, how are the spiritual leaders from your former institution to be considered the only ones to manipulate the context of scripture, when there is ample evidence to consider all religions by your standard, including the 4woman group.

[Srecko Sostar]

2 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

10 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

But as we focus here on religious spirituality, then it is important to reiterate that spirituality can be good and bad. What was the spirituality like when WTJWorg celebrated Christmas, for example among so many other examples?

You are correct. We are discussing the implementation of Christianity by Christ. Can you give me a prime example, "when WTJWorg celebrated Christmas? 

10 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Today, WTJWorg would say that it was a time when "they did not understand Bible principles accurately." 

You have me at a lost. Can you give me a prime example when you believe the WTJWorg celebrated Christmas and then found out they were mistaken?

Sorry if I confused you. I assumed you are a JW member who could and should know that today’s "WTJWorg"  is the legal successor of the ZWTTS to WTBTSP (Zion's Watch Tower Tract Society, 1881, renamed (incorporated) to Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, 1884) from the time of Russell and then Rutherford. Of course changing in name continued with more sister companies from then to now.

My internal label of this organization is WTJWorg, it is my own abbreviation that I most often use in communication on this forum or elsewhere where I sometimes leave my comment. In order to correct the administrative inaccuracy of the name of the same organization (for purpose to your clear understanding of given comment), I will find a time-historical fact about celebrating Christmas and publish it in the following comment. Thank you for your patience.

[Srecko Sostar]

25 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

Can you give me a biblical text where Jesus stipulated Christians should honor those traditions?

It's like looking for evidence in the Bible that speaks for or against blood fractions. :))

Christians like JW should know that the Bible book does not answer every question.

[Srecko Sostar]

29 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

This projection gives me the impression you don't believe Jesus is the pathway to salvation. That is something you will have to decide.

Projection you made and verbalized.    Clumsy turning and juggling words. It only works for inattentive readers of comments.

[Dmitar]

2 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

It's like looking for evidence in the Bible that speaks for or against blood fractions. :))

Christians like JW should know that the Bible book does not answer every question.

What does blood fractions have to do with "whole" blood? If one looks hard enough, the evidence is there. You have not given me a prime example of the WTJWorg celebrating Christmas, or have we moved on to another topic?

[Srecko Sostar]

34 minutes ago, Dmitar said:

However, how are the spiritual leaders from your former institution to be considered the only ones to manipulate the context of scripture, when there is ample evidence to consider all religions by your standard, including the 4woman group.

When and where did I say that GBs are the only ones religious manipulators?