The 144k and the GB...gnostics?

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

13 hours ago, xero said:

n the mean-time instead of spending time filling in the gaps of bible-knowlege or figuring out how to get possession of their own vessel in sanctification and honor people spend their time spraying anti-JW graffiti on whatever surface they can find.

Or, if you are the Leaders of the Watchtower / JW Org, then you spend your time playing with numbers and dates to pretend you know more than other people do. 

[TrueTomHarley]

1 hour ago, xero said:

instead of spending time filling in the gaps of bible-knowlege or figuring out how to get possession of their own vessel in sanctification and honor people spend their time spraying anti-JW graffiti on whatever surface they can find.

“spraying anti-JW graffiti on whatever surface they can find.”

Paid up your membership fee for an entire year with that one, you did.

[xero]

If you can tell the difference between good and bad advice, you don't need it, if you can't it doesn't matter because you'll just end up finding out anyway. There are times when you can end up in the right place following the wrong advice and times you can end up in the wrong place following the right advice and whether it's the wrong place or the right place or not depends on Jehovah.

There was the time King David (actually, before he was king) when he'd had it w/Saul making his life difficult so he left Israel to go fight as a mercenary for the Philistines. Now he'd always vowed to not lift his hand up (w/graffiti or otherwise) against the anointed of Jehovah, but maybe he's changed his mind because he's on his way to Mt. Gilboa w/the Philistines to fight Saul...but at Aphek he's stopped and sent home...now could be this southward movement of men might have looked like a flanking maneuver to the Israelite scouts and maybe this put them out of position so they weren't in time to defend the entrance to the Jezreel valley leading ultimately to Saul's death? Who knows? Jehovah could have used David in a way to both stop him from breaking his vow AND leading to Saul's death and ultimate replacement. That's all speculation, but could be that's what was going down.

Thing is, though David didn't fight against an arguably bad King because he was put there by Jehovah and Jehovah was going to have to take him out. In any case, Jehovah's will was done and we can likewise know it will be done today.

You just don't want to be the intentional instrument to take down anyone or any group whom you see doing God's will, not matter how defective you imagine them to be. We aren't authorized to trash the dragnet either any more than we're authorized to do some weeding, but we can weed ourselves and our own hearts and we should.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

13 hours ago, xero said:

You just don't want to be the intentional instrument to take down anyone or any group whom you see doing God's will,

Are you a politician ? You act like one. Sly persuasive words. 

Now how about the idea of 'taking down' anyone whom you see working against God's will ?

Such as the Leaders of the Watchtower / JW Org that are deliberately insulting God and Christ. 

Remember the Nation of Israel.  Remember Jerusalem. Remember it's destruction. 

Having a form of Godly devotion,,, 2 Timothy 3 : 5

Berean Study Bible
having a form of godliness but denying its power. Turn away from such as these! 

Giving false promises, false dates for Armageddon, has caused stumbling, it wasn't 'doing God's will' 

And CSA, well I've no need to explain. The blood guilt lies on the hands of the W/t leaders. 

 

[Matthew9969]

On 8/28/2021 at 5:39 PM, Pudgy said:

We all know that Jesus was very concerned about the Christian Congregation ... so ..... if Jehovah's Witnesses, warts, scabs, drool and all, are not with whom we should be associating with ...... then who?

Specifically?

Where and who, ( a name, address, zip code is the specificity required) is the Congregation that is the "real deal"?

Give me  a better choice, and I will leave what I know in a New York second.

But I will need to know why the better choice really is the better choice.

Without specific proof of something better, your very best observations, reasoning, and logic is nothing more than light entertainment.

No more.

 

 

• “Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.” (Acts 4:12)
• “For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all …” (1 Timothy 2:5)
• “There is one body and one Spirit … one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.” (Ephesians 4:4)
• Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.” (John 14:6)
• “I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and find pasture … I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.” (John 10:9)

My church, Calvary Church this is what we believe and go by. It's not Calvary church that we turn to for salvation, it's not the building. We go straight to and through Jesus for our salvation. Which is a stark contrast to this bold statement:

"Come to Jehovah's organization for salvation" Watchtower 1981 Nov 15 p.212

[Srecko Sostar]

3 hours ago, xero said:

People that want to leave will find a reason to leave and those who remain will likewise and Jehovah is the judge of both.

Main thing anyone should do is make sure they're following their bible-trained consciences.

If I may remark, it would then mean that GB should stop calling ex-JW with expressions as; ex-JW are "apostates, enemies, poison" and the like. 

Also, JW members' "bible-trained consciences" would disregard the GB directive on how to treat former members.

What you mention is commendable. Generally speaking. Generally understood. Generally applicable. But apart from you a few who talk to us here and a few who do it with us personally where we live, it is an rare  exception to WTJWorg policy.

[xero]

6 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Now how about the idea of 'taking down' anyone whom you see working against God's will ?

²⁷  So the slaves of the master of the house came and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow fine seed in your field? How, then, does it have weeds?’ ²⁸  He said to them, ‘An enemy, a man, did this.’y The slaves said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go out and collect them?’ ²⁹  He said, ‘No, for fear that while collecting the weeds, you uproot the wheat with them. ^{- Mt 13:27-27}
"taking down" = weeding - Jesus said that wasn't your job.

As for turning away and how one does this and to whom is everyone's responsibility. If you've judged then you have to deal w/the judgement you've made. Clearly not everyone JW or non-JW agrees w/you, but it's your prerogative and your responsibility. Whether it's a better use of your time to turn people towards something or away from something is your prerogative and responsibility as well.

[Pudgy]

I have often pondered that Jehovah God had expressed a particular fondness for humans, and no stated preference for dogs.

Perhaps in the New System, after the thousand year training and final exam, or perhaps even sometime before that (?) and "New Scrolls" are opened, perhaps we will learn that there is a plan, and perhaps has always been a plan, for a "Rainbow Bridge", where we wait for our Guardians to be resurrected, and be with us once again.

Like so many things discussed here .... the CORRECT answer is "I don't know."

It seems like a hint is that Jehovah knows our Guardians' limitations, and seems to have tolerated a tremendous amount of grievous error of his "Organization" back in the era of King David, et al.

Incredible amounts of grievous error!

Think of all the many thousands of Jews that fought in Jehovah's sanctioned and approved wars, who EVEN THOUGH JEHOVAH WAS WITH THEM ... they were slaughtered on the battlefields of those times. Jehovah COULD have preserved and protected each one of them, but he did not.

Why Not?

ANSWER: Because "Stuff Happens".

....... get used to it.

[TrueTomHarley]

9 hours ago, Pudgy said:

It seems like a hint is that Jehovah knows our Guardians' limitations, and seems to have tolerated a tremendous amount of grievous error of his "Organization" back in the era of King David, et al.

“As chairman of the resurrection Welcome Wagon, it is my honor to welcome you back from the dead. We have it set up so the guy who is resurrected, after a brief orientation, gets to chair the committee to greet the next group. I’m King David. You may have read of me when……um…….(gulp)……oh, hello Uriah. It’s good to see you.”

[TrueTomHarley]

13 hours ago, xero said:

So the slaves of the master of the house came and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow fine seed in your field? How, then, does it have weeds?’ ²⁸  He said to them, ‘An enemy, a man, did this.’y

“So the slaves of the master of the house came and said to him, ‘Master, did you not just cover your home with fine paint? How, then, does there come to be anti-JW graffiti all over it? He said to them, ‘An enemy, those pestilential apostates, did this. The slaves said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go out and scrub it off?  He said, ‘No, for fear that while scrubbing it off, you may ruin the paint job. Let them both remain for a time—I’ll put up with the eyesore for now—until that time when the Grand Redecorator comes along to bundle those guys up in groups of fifty and send them all to the WeepnNash hoosegow.
 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

On 8/31/2021 at 1:52 PM, xero said:

"taking down" = weeding - Jesus said that wasn't your job.

And that is why I'm PATIENTLY WAITING FOR TRUTH. 

BUT, in the meantime, I will continue to follow my Christian conscience and give warning about the lies, hypocrisy and immorality in the Watchtower / JW Org. And I will continue to show the hypocrisy and dishonesty of the GB in their dealings with CSA and the Pedophiles in the Org. In my opinion it is the Christian way to warn others of danger, both spiritual and physical. 

I've been told by many on here that the GB cannot be weeded out anyway. That is rubbish of course, because God and Christ can remove anyone they want to. When it happens, then we shall find truth. 

There are so many true Anointed ones that God through Christ can use to replace the GB. 

The scripture that you quoted from Matthew would be referring to people inside the Org. BUT what I'm referring to is the ones that have put themselves in the place of the Master, namely your GB. 

The strange thing is, the Elders / Circuit Overseers are constantly weeding / disfellowshipping people. Did Jesus tell them it was their job  ??? 

On 8/31/2021 at 1:52 PM, xero said:

He said, ‘No, for fear that while collecting the weeds, you uproot the wheat with them.

Are the Elders deliberately uprooting the wheat ? 

[xero]

42 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

And that is why I'm PATIENTLY WAITING FOR TRUTH. 

BUT, in the meantime, I will continue to follow my Christian conscience and give warning about the lies, hypocrisy and immorality in the Watchtower / JW Org. And I will continue to show the hypocrisy and dishonesty of the GB in their dealings with CSA and the Pedophiles in the Org. In my opinion it is the Christian way to warn others of danger, both spiritual and physical. 

I've been told by many on here that the GB cannot be weeded out anyway. That is rubbish of course, because God and Christ can remove anyone they want to. When it happens, then we shall find truth. 

There are so many true Anointed ones that God through Christ can use to replace the GB. 

The scripture that you quoted from Matthew would be referring to people inside the Org. BUT what I'm referring to is the ones that have put themselves in the place of the Master, namely your GB. 

The strange thing is, the Elders / Circuit Overseers are constantly weeding / disfellowshipping people. Did Jesus tell them it was their job  ??? 

Are the Elders deliberately uprooting the wheat ? 

Not really. Some people just get more discipline than others. If you know anything, you know that no one gets DF'ed for doing anything. They get DF'ed for their attitude about what they're doing. If you don't cop an attitude, you generally don't get DF'ed. Now it's true that you can look at a person's behavior and intuit the attitude especially if they keep repeating the thing that got them disciplinary attention to begin with. Some people need something sterner to get their attention. But no one's been weeded. These can still stay in the garden, they just don't have all the privileges they had formerly. The "weeding" is what people do to themselves when they leave permanently. Are they leaving to a better, more correct group of Christians, or just a group who'll tolerate all manner of bad behavior? Or, and this is what some do, they become atheists or agnostics in a sense saying "If God doesn't present himself in a way I understand and approve of, I'll just wave my hands and he'll cease to exist." Yes, it is their job to shepherd the flock and yes it means to watch out for malcontents and others who'd want people to go astray. (This is the problem I see in Christendom in general) More denominations SHOULD disfellowship their members. It's a good thing, not a bad thing. Now you can argue that the way some handle their associations w/DF'd ones isn't something handled well at times and you'd be right, but that's going to happen w/everything that humans are involved with. They are going to get it wrong. Family members have to take responsibility for the way they handle members of their own family and others who are DF'ed - there are going to be some who minimize the discipline and they have to deal with that (and I've seen that they do...eventually).

Issues w/CSA and these other things have been examined by others outside as well as inside and adjustments have been made, but no....it's not perfect and never will be, but when this organization is contrasted w/others there isn't a better organization I'm aware of doctrinally or practice-wise with which one might associate.

Do I believe every recent interpretation or other older interpretations which have come down the pike? No. And I don't teach any of those things as facts, but as interpretations. The facts are clear and these are what can be clearly pointed to in scripture - the rest is speculation and there is and has always been organizational speculation as well as private and personal speculation. Does this mean that Jehovah isn't in control and directing things? No.