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[Moise Racette]

2 hours ago, Witness said:

is just as foolish.  

What's foolish is to think, this poster somehow lives in a perfect world. It's therefore, this poster's foolishness since it condemns the human race. That kind of authority, no one on earth has. 

However, apostates and many immoral actors within the Bethel house have claimed, there is homosexuality at Bethel to include one or two in the governing body. Since nothing has EVER been PROVEN, it continues to be speculative by obtuse people.

Yet, this fake anointed smear's with contempt. Not even Christian, how laughable!!! 😅

[Moise Racette]

11 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

What is crazy is whenever there are situations like this, they spin doctor it in a way to push a narrative, or agenda. This is also isn't the first time, for there were other murder suicides, one including the woman who had a gun, although being excommunicated for years, having nothing to do with her former church

I would say, it was more agenda driven. If those two wanted to reach out to the church to repent, they would have been given that opportunity. The fact they wanted to seek counsel from a body of Elders that were not part of their original church, makes me think, they weren't willing to repent but instead wanted to sidestep themselves into being accepted at a different KH. That happens only to often with people that believe, they have nothing to repent about. Elders can't read the hearts of people, but God can.

The actions of Bonnie and Clyde also worked to that end, where they thought they could somehow tarnish the Org.  Foolish last thoughts.

[Pudgy]

I only watched about 20% of the above video when I realized the man was making some normal but unfounded assumptions about what was really going on for which he had no evidence whatsoever.

He said the Brother that committed suicide was “qualified”  to have his memorial service at the Kingdom Hall after his death, although he had not “qualified” to get married  at the Kingdom Hall. ….. and alluded to his request was rejected that is why he suicided, and that the “qualifications” were the same for both.  They are not.

He May have been a very fine but mentally distressed Brother, recently divorced without scriptural grounds, as viewed by the “Watchtower”, which would make it impossible for him to marry at a Kingdom Hall.  But still in good standing at his death, he had a KH funeral.  The God of the Bible NOWHERE condemns suicide, but many Snowflakes say it does, so it makes sense he could have a KH funeral service. Logical. Reasonable. Rational. And compassionate.

Or, it could be any one of 53 or more OTHER simple or complex situations common to humans, or something completely new.

Without additional hard fact the video starts out based on heresay, and sloppy, REALLY sloppy thinking.   Third hand heresay.

What is embarrassing for me is for the first few minutes I “went along” with it, until I started visualizing it in detail and what he was saying became based on too many unfounded ASSUMPTIONS.

False premises is an effective way to mislead people, because it sounds similar to things you are already familiar with, and most people are comfortable with that.

TV salesmen do this all the time.

[Space Merchant]

11 hours ago, Witness said:

The Watchtower has hidden pedophiles for years among their ranks, although many JWs refuse to believe it. In light of that gross immorality, to also believe that Bethel doesn't have, or had issues with homosexuality, is just as foolish.  

Pedophiles are not as hidden as what some and even EXJWs has said, granted, even pedophiles among the very people that EXJWs themselves have among them, i.e. in their community or places like reddit, known to harbor pedophiles interact and pretend to believe what others do without venting; especially when Opportunists are involved. The more you hang out with people who fight CSA, the more you find out. It should be noted, that pedophiles who seek to commit harm or injury to children will inevitably get into spaces where there is kids, only a handful of people are capable of handling the situation and or picking up red flags (which I listed before), something of which was addressed many many times before, even to you. As well as ways to provide solutions in order to combat the problem, these solutions being both Biblical, practical and grounded, so much so even CSA prevention are the very ones advocating for such things you and EXJWs should have been preaching about but never did.

Example - https://centerforchildprotection.org/preventing-child-sexual-abuse/

As for the other part of your remark, you completely miss the point and you surely do know this particular EXJW well. The video this man made a while back, he himself mentioned male Jehovah's Witnesses were essentially kissing/making out with each other, even in the face of others as if it isn't a problem. We already know this to be false because such actions they, along with most Christians see this as a gross conduct as is giving a biblical reason as to why such is unreasonable when it comes to the church, even using Colossians 3:5 regarding unreasonable notions that today's people follow, not to mention videos and information from this man and other EXJWs that came later on which contradicts such claims. We also know that Jehovah's Witnesses are not fans of same-sex marriage.

According to them -  God intended marriage to be a permanent, intimate bond between a man and a woman. Men and women are designed to complement each other so they may be capable of satisfying each other’s emotional and sexual needs and of providing children.

There were videos by EXJWs who attest to the fact JWs are Anti-Gay and along with that preach their damnation, as some former members try to also proves this with LGBTQ affiliates who are either among them or the ones they follow. Such as often been used to be weaponized by the group in question and emboldened some affiliates of the LGBTQ to assume another ally against the Christian faith in general, not just Jehovah's Witnesses.

It is only foolish if you just to believe unverified opinions of such persons, which you still have trouble on fixing because you continue to do this. As for your other video... That can easily be debunked, and it can be debunked using information from former members of JWs who take issue with disgruntled EXJWs.

That being said, if you do not take the time to actually do the research, that the problem lies with you. As for the original topic at hand, the first video you posted that Ex-Bethlite as he calls himself mislead his audience (not the first time either), and it seems to be he has misled you as well because the Police Report and the couples history, specifically Enoch can easily counter it via facts, even by the Non-Religious.

 

[Space Merchant]

9 hours ago, Moise Racette said:

I would say, it was more agenda driven. If those two wanted to reach out to the church to repent, they would have been given that opportunity. The fact they wanted to seek counsel from a body of Elders that were not part of their original church, makes me think, they weren't willing to repent but instead wanted to sidestep themselves into being accepted at a different KH. That happens only to often with people that believe, they have nothing to repent about. Elders can't read the hearts of people, but God can.

The actions of Bonnie and Clyde also worked to that end, where they thought they could somehow tarnish the Org.  Foolish last thoughts.

Perhaps, but I don't know about willingness to repent especially with some of the things representatives had said about him. Often times if someone plans to go out with a bang, they want to take others with them. If the Jehovah's Witnesses actually complied here and he had access to several of them, it would lead to potentially more deaths. As for the wife, I doubt she would've wanted to die, especially the manner of the death was execution style, perhaps he feels as though if he wanted to go out, believes his wife would wish the same. Due to the fact a shotgun was involved, even gun nuts in the firearm community feel as though this situation will vilify them. Thornton however, has been having a lot of violence and trouble for some time now,as with other parts of the united States.

Or they could have seen their former faith as an easy target. Possibly if they had continued from there, other people would be hurt, mainly the very people that they worked with. Other than that lock downs and other notions have caused people to go crazy, specifically with how horrid employment is in the states with some people losing their minds.

As for their excommunication, the JWs probably knew something about the couple that when it came to light, resulted in them being kicked out. Need to look into this but from what was said by some that the husband, Enoch, had a police record which involving drugs and theft, as is possibly being on the FBI's watch going back 2003, but that is unknown, so that has to be confirmed to be proven true or false. We do know he likes to threaten people, which was reported, and possibly put his place of employment and the JW church at edge.

 

[Moise Racette]

11 hours ago, Pudgy said:

He May have been a very fine but mentally distressed Brother, recently divorced without scriptural grounds, as viewed by the “Watchtower”, which would make it impossible for him to marry at a Kingdom Hall.  But still in good standing at his death, he had a KH funeral.  The God of the Bible NOWHERE condemns suicide, but many Snowflakes say it does, so it makes sense he could have a KH funeral service. Logical. Reasonable. Rational. And compassionate.

This poster should prove once and for all his obtuse ideology about WAR and SUICIDE that is NOT murder. Explain why readers should refuse to accept biblical admonition?

(James 4:1-3) 4 What is the source of the wars and fights among you? Do they not originate from your fleshly desires that carry on a conflict within you? 2 You desire, and yet you do not have. You go on murdering and coveting, and yet you are not able to obtain. You go on fighting and waging war. You do not have because of your not asking. 3 When you do ask, you do not receive because you are asking for a wrong purpose, so that you may spend it on your fleshly desires.

The other point would be, of course, a disfellowshiped person would think, anyone that goes against bible principles is a person in good standing. That would be a bunch of nonsense coming from a person that lacks bible knowledge.
 

[Moise Racette]

2 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Perhaps, but I don't know about willingness to repent especially with some of the things representatives had said about him.

True, that is why I believe the discussion about seeing the Elders was just a ploy to canvass that KH.

2 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

If the Jehovah's Witnesses actually complied here and he had access to several of them, it would lead to potentially more deaths.

A mentally unstable person that wants to blame something on others instead of their own failures in life will go through extreme judgment on those people he/she has targeted. In this case, he made the Org the target to tarnish and discredit.

2 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

As for the wife, I doubt she would've wanted to die, especially the manner of the death was execution style, perhaps he feels as though if he wanted to go out, believes his wife would wish the same.

This will be unknown, since there are circumstances that a wife agrees with the husband's suicide pact, or vice versa.

So, who knows what was in her mind. The fact she was there speaks volumes.

https://nypost.com/2023/01/23/ellen-gilland-76-killed-sick-husband-as-part-of-suicide-pact-cops/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27643706/

2 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

As for their excommunication, the JWs probably knew something about the couple that when it came to light, resulted in them being kicked out. Need to look into this but from what was said by some that the husband, Enoch, had a police record which involving drugs and theft, as is possibly being on the FBI's watch going back 2003, but that is unknown, so that has to be confirmed to be proven true or false. We do know he likes to threaten people, which was reported, and possibly put his place of employment and the JW church at edge.

Another reason why that person showed not repentance or remorse. Unwillingness to remove himself from his old self. There are biblical reasons why God's church needs to be kept clean, from unrepentant souls. His actions proved it.

[Witness]

5 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

As for the other part of your remark, you completely miss the point and you surely do know this particular EXJW well. The video this man made a while back, he himself mentioned male Jehovah's Witnesses were essentially kissing/making out with each other, even in the face of others as if it isn't a problem. We already know this to be false because such actions they, along with most Christians see this as a gross conduct as is giving a biblical reason as to why such is unreasonable when it comes to the church, even using Colossians 3:5 regarding unreasonable notions that today's people follow, not to mention videos and information from this man and other EXJWs that came later on which contradicts such claims. We also know that Jehovah's Witnesses are not fans of same-sex marriage.

No, I don't know this person "well" except for listening to a few of his videos.  You have a lot of,  well  some, good qualities that I personally can detect, SM; but I will say this again, you don't know what it's like to be a JW, you have no clue what living that life is all about.  You certainly have no basis to say that the man was telling a falsehood about what he witnessed during his time in Bethel.   You are either highly naive, or highly arrogant in your assumptions.

[Moise Racette]

26 minutes ago, Witness said:

you don't know what it's like to be a JW, you have no clue what living that life is all about. 

Apparently, neither does this poster, so why criticize a person from a different faith.

[Pudgy]

3 hours ago, Moise Racette said:

This poster should prove once and for all his obtuse ideology about WAR and SUICIDE that is NOT murder. Explain why readers should refuse to accept biblical admonition?

(James 4:1-3) 4 What is the source of the wars and fights among you? Do they not originate from your fleshly desires that carry on a conflict within you? 2 You desire, and yet you do not have. You go on murdering and coveting, and yet you are not able to obtain. You go on fighting and waging war. You do not have because of your not asking. 3 When you do ask, you do not receive because you are asking for a wrong purpose, so that you may spend it on your fleshly desires.

The other point would be, of course, a disfellowshiped person would think, anyone that goes against bible principles is a person in good standing. That would be a bunch of nonsense coming from a person that lacks bible knowledge.
 

Ok, I will let you supply the answer, as I am too lazy to look it up. The scripture, in context with the general subject of what was being discussed before and after the scripture you quoted …. Was James talking to worldly people, or about strife inside the Congregation?

 

[Moise Racette]

More uneducated bible knowledge. Kill, (Murder), is against God's will. Does it matter if James was referring to worldly people or people murdering in the name of God, get educated poster, learn something other than the sound of your own voice.

The killing of another is murder in biblical context as well as man's law. The difference there is how justifiable in man's law can murder be accepted. That distinction doesn't exist in biblical terms.

Suicide is "self-murder." Taking away what God has given. Doesn't 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 mean anything to d'fd people, 1 Corinthians 3:16-17. Just because the poster stubbornly wants to see the WORD suicide in the bible, doesn't mean the poster is educated in bible knowledge.

So, don't try to subvert scripture to meet the poster's argument. We have enough of that, with@AnnaNana and @Witness

[Pudgy]

Moise:

Sigh….. once Again you completely failed to address the elephant in the room …. What does the scripture you quoted in James 4:1-4, and the context that went before it and the context that went after it would indicate if James was talking about your two rebuttal points, or about strife in the Congregation.

Until you address that, buzzword scriptures are meaningless.

Care to stay on YOUR original rebuttal scripture, and address whether or not YOU HAVE MISAPPLIED IT to fit your Snowflake agenda?

I may be wrong …. And in one paragraph including the full scripture in James 4 in full context you can prove me wrong.

I will then admit you were right, give you an upvote, and your weekend will be complete!!

Be a sport …. do it.

It is less work than your above meaningless buzzword post, and avoids the six diversions and two ad hominem attacks you used as a poor substitute for a simple, in-context quote from the same scripture YOU said supported your Snowflake agenda.