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[Moise Racette]

3 hours ago, Witness said:

Apostasy according to the Bible is defection from the truth of Christ.  It is the love of fabrications, which is a spiritual immorality.

Therefore, by definition, regardless if it's through man's interpretation or biblical interpretation, it amounts to the same thing. I'm glad the poster can see the assertions apostates bring to any conversation.

Let's touch bases with what the poster refers to as, false teachings. Apostates can and have used such methods to blind the public of Christ truth, if only through their own disobedience to the gospel. One cannot be a disciple of Christ and not be disciplined by Christ.

When this is presented in public by anyone, then the presenter is considered to be the bearer of that false doctrine, no matter how many bible texts are used.

3 hours ago, Witness said:

The “apostates” labeled as such outside the organization are according to the doctrine of men. Rev 13:11,12,15

To be clear. Some considered Jesus an apostate for the wrong reason. There are indeed biblical ideological methods to accuse a false prophet or a member that has seen the truth, then reverses course to become an apostate, biblically speaking. The will of God is NOT man-made. 1 Timothy 4:1, 2 Peter 2:20-22, Hebrews 6:4-8.

I have been asked many times if Satan can be considered an apostate. The answer according to bible understanding, yes!

Once again, are we looking for a specific word, or a condition? Can the question "is there good apostasy and bad apostasy" be answered?

[TrueTomHarley]

On 1/2/2023 at 4:18 PM, Pudgy said:

If you would like to see the James Bond actor Daniel Craig completely Ace a role with a heavy “ Ah shucks” southern drawl

“Oh, shut up, shut up—with that Rooster Cogburn Kentucky-Fried Foghorn accent!!” 

Pretty much my favorite line from Knives Out, which i liked a lot, (though I thought the profanity unnecessary)  But one review I read of Glass onion was that it wasn’t as good.

[Pudgy]

(  …. Visualizes Moise thinking to himself …””I don’t think we are in Kansas anymore, Toto ….”)

[xero]

This is what I think of when we start talking about apostates.

All the parties involved are a bunch of ineffectual, fat corgi's.

[TrueTomHarley]

27 minutes ago, xero said:

This is what I think of when we start talking about apostates.

All the parties involved are a bunch of ineffectual, fat corgi's.

Charming creatures to have around, they are.

[Anna]

36 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Charming creatures to have around, they are.

Aren't they just. I won't be able to look at discussions about apostates in the same way anymore....

[TrueTomHarley]

10 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

“Oh, shut up, shut up—with that Rooster Cogburn Kentucky-Fried Foghorn accent!!” 

Pretty much my favorite line from Knives Out, which i liked a lot, (though I thought the profanity unnecessary)  But one review I read of Glass onion was that it wasn’t as good.

Bad reviews or not, @Pudgy,I’ll search out Glass Onion. Beniot Blanc was just too much for his Poirot parody. “I see what you’re saying, Benny, but . . ”  the lead detective said. Everyone else called him Beniot.

They’d better not muck up the Musk caricature, and I’m sure they will, probably being left wing loons as such folks so often are. But I’ll still seek it out—in time—I don’t have Netflix.

[xero]

To me the big questions are what keep me up at night. 

"Why will the end come at any given time?"

I used to think I knew the answer. Now it seems silly that I ever did.

 

 

[Space Merchant]

The murder suicide was narrowed it down to a degree of a personal dispute as well as noted as a Homicide. When the story dropped, some former members, EXJWs, of the faith will automatically assume this was the faith community's doing, even going as far as to discredit the police report done by Thornton Police Department, which, when the report is read, the man [Enoch Apodaca, 46] was already a ticking time bomb, along side his wife [Melissa [Martinez] Apodaca, 44], for before he even got to the JW Church, he was doing nefarious things previously, the issue he had with his place of business resulting in an explosion after he exited with a bucket.

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Apodaca went to the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers Local 68 building, which police called his "place of business," where he was seen entering the building with a bucket at around 8:45 a.m. Shortly after he left, there was a "large explosion," police said. The building was closed at the time and no one was hurt. Police said that the explosive devices used at Kingdom Hall match the one planted at the electrical workers' building.

Once the explosion took place, Adam's County Fire Department as well as the Sheriffs responded and acted accordingly to such situations that took place, but Enoch had since left the scene, thankfully no one was hurt in the blast because the business was closed on Christmas Day. 9AM police ended up arriving to the situation at the JW Church, which was not too far from where the first incident took place. From what is reported, Enoch was instructing his wife to essentially break into the church via their truck, then you have explosives inside of the church itself after they essentially busted in. After the deed was done, Enoch shot his wife, execution style, then ended his own life; weapon of choice, The Shotgun.

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Police were called to Kingdom Hall at around 9:00 a.m., officials said, after a structure fire and shooting were reported. Investigators found that Apodaca had directed his wife, Melissa Martinez, to back a black Dodge truck up to a window of the building. Apodaca broke the window with a hammer, placed the explosives, and then approached his wife from behind with a shotgun. He shot her in the back of the head, then shot himself, police said. There were two other people in the hall at the time, but they were not injured, police said.

Both use to be former members of the Church, but were excommunicated and it seems as though for a long time now. They ended up speaking to church elder but were instructed to speak to the elders of their original Church prior to this event. To be excommunicated they, Enoch specifically, was a very problematic. Enoch also had issues with his place of employment, thus having a personal vendetta.

Even before this situation, this guy was very crazy, perhaps reasons why JWs distanced themselves from him.

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Apodaca also reportedly told the representative that he would "come after the people responsible" for him and his wife both losing their jobs. According to an application for a protection order against Apodaca filed in December 2021, Apodaca had been fired in June of that same year, but the application didn't say why. Police said that investigators found no further explosives at the couple's homes, but did find "numerous items consistent with the manufacturing of explosives similar to those found in Kingdom Hall."

Just over a year before the explosions and shooting, a representative of Apodaca's former employer said that he had told a Local 68 union representative that he would shoot his wife and the union representative after he and his wife lost their jobs,

 

So the more anyone looks into this, the less it has to do with the JW church or it's members, but rather, the ordeal that many people had to deal with in 2020-2021, job wise, for people tend to go crazy and take it out on anything or anyone who are familiar with, be it person or group.

 

For some reason, Mark Jones (possibly someone in the police force) is being tossed into this, blamed by some, which makes no sense.

 

Lastly, the situation could have been far worse. Enoch did contact an elder of the church as mentioned, if he had been welcomed back, and there were other JWs present, and the latter had ill intent, there would have been more than 2 bodies that day, a lot of deceased members of the faith, luckily, as some assumed, but were mistaken, JWs don't celebrate Christmas and were not present that day, expect two guys inside the church, who were probably there for bible study or fixing the place up, one discovered the explosives device I believe.

That being said, those who don't seek truth in regards to events like this, are doing an ultimate disservice to the people. This goes for weaponizing the situation - you know who you are.

[Space Merchant]

On 1/5/2023 at 1:06 PM, Amidstheroses said:

I have no idea about his morality, Moise, but he mumbled something that almost sounded like ‘Wallkill Bethelite’ at the beginning, then proceeded to speak as if he had no inside idea of:

1) what disfellowshipping is; carries on as if it is a permanent state with no way out

2) Repeatedly refers to JW’s as a cult

3) Signs off with an audible “Ex-Wallkill Bethelite“

4) Repeatedly: speaks negatively about JWs and proposes legal or community action against JW’s because of their religious beliefs and practices.

To save anyone from wasting their time listening to this, this man is an Apostate. 

If I am not mistaken, this is the same person who, believe it or not, said he saw JWs advocating for same-sex relationships, and also claim to witness two men in a relationship in these Bethelites JW churches, only came across such prior to the 2017 situation a while back, but I recognize his face. The irony here is this man does not even consider the facts mentioned in the police report.

What is crazy is whenever there are situations like this, they spin doctor it in a way to push a narrative, or agenda. This is also isn't the first time, for there were other murder suicides, one including the woman who had a gun, although being excommunicated for years, having nothing to do with her former church, is somehow the fault of other members of the faith, some even went as far as to say the JWs gave her the gun to end her family, and trying to push that idea to people even JWs, specifically one fellow in the UK attempted to do a while back.

That being said, ran into some who suffered similar situations, even one in particular of whom I was friends with, a good soul, ended by a teen responsible for the Oxford Shooting, so when people mislead using these situations, it is hellishly sickening, and rightfully so, a disrespect.

[Witness]

 

[Witness]

The Watchtower has hidden pedophiles for years among their ranks, although many JWs refuse to believe it. In light of that gross immorality, to also believe that Bethel doesn't have, or had issues with homosexuality, is just as foolish.