JW's in Malawi vs. Mexico: Why the Disparity?

[JW Insider]

7 minutes ago, AllenSmith said:

In the meantime, you've wasted 2 pages of your worthless opinion on this matter.

Even worse! I wasted two pages of R.Franz' opinion on this matter. When I said that PART 2 was mostly commentary on the PART 1 photocopies, I was referring to the commentary R.Franz had included in his book. Only about one sentence [that I bracketed] was my own worthless opinion. The reason I was summarizing the words of R.Franz was to avoid too much direct quotation of R.Franz, lest someone would take offense at the idea of quoting an apostate. Then you subsequently quoted him at length, so I have decided that it's probably for the best that I quote him, too.

Besides, your only good points included the idea that Ray Franz had equated the two situations in the two different countries (which he hadn't according to the very words you quoted from him).

The only other good point you made was that R.Franz had called it a "political" card and that this was proof that he didn't realize that it was a "loyalty" card. But your point was pretty thoroughly discredited when it was pointed out that R.Franz himself had said that the card was really about "loyalty" to the corrupt President Banda.

1 hour ago, AllenSmith said:

I'm still waiting where the Watchtower orchestrated this scheme or endorsed such action.

Why would you wait for that? The point is only that the Watchtower left it up to individual consciences for persons in Mexico, and said that they didn't want' to dictate their conscience. Then for the situation of "alternative service" in other places, and the buying of a 25 cent political/loyalty card in Malawi they made it clear that things like this should never be left up an individual's conscience. In the Dominican Republic and Latin American countries where the same type of situation occurred ---and where the Watch Tower Society has already admitted that similar bribes can be paid to avoid military service--- there were brothers who were serving multiple prison sentences. So, I don't think it was "racism," but something specific about the situation in Mexico. (Trying to figure out if there is any evidence that could lead us to the real reason why this occurred in Mexico, and yet the same principles were not applied in Malawi or other some other Latin American countries, well, that is the point of wasting all this space on worthless opinion, in my opinion.)

 

[Evacuated]

39 minutes ago, AllenSmith said:

All you need is to see the rational etc...

Thanks for the link. Provides some useful context.

[JW Insider]

On 5/29/2017 at 1:40 PM, AllenSmith said:

Politicians had to open every official speech by praising Banda and affirming his supremacy. He was always to be addressed by his official title, “His Excellency the Life President Dr. Hastings Kamuzu Banda, the Ngwazi.” Any speech that failed to do so could be taken as a sign of disloyalty and could result in dismissal from the party. Schoolchildren were required to regularly express their adulation of Banda,

I personally wrote letters to Banda using that exact same official title. It was similar back when I wrote to him in 1967 and then again in 1976 just a few days before starting at Bethel, and then again, directly from Brooklyn.

[Evacuated]

4 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

letters to Banda

Me too. The address we were given was:

His Excellency the Life President of Malawi
Ngwazi Dr. H. Kamuzu Banda
Central Government Offices
Private Bag 301
Capital City
Lilongwe 3
Malawi, Central Africa
 

 Ngwazi meant "chief of chiefs" (more literally, "great lion", or, some would say, "conqueror") in Chicheŵa. (Wikipedia)

[The Librarian]

@Allen Smith I implore you (again) to please try and make your claim / counterarguments WITHOUT name calling or attacking other posters.

Simply state your possibility or claim and call it good. 

 

 

[Micah Ong]

2 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

you “failed”

To show Christlike love and rather loved the Pharisaic pride of Jesus day.  i.e name calling and brashly looking down upon others.

[JW Insider]

3 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

BANDA initially was praised as a kind and compassionate man. That’s the position Ray took.

Now it sounds like you are doing that thing again where you resort to just making stuff up. Raymond Franz spoke of all the despicable things done to Jehovah's Witnesses in Malawi and indicates that the position of the Watchtower was correct when it stated that the "ultimate responsibility" for the injustice must be placed on President Banda.

Notably, as regards the failure of the Malawian authorities to uphold the high principles of their Constitution, the Watch Tower Society had stated that the “ultimate responsibility” for the injustice must be placed on President Banda. (p.161)

 

Recall that R.Franz had already worked in Latin American countries where persecution, which he personally suffered, was meted out by similar, murderous dictators like Trujillo in DR. His attitude toward Banda, "the government," and his party officials was already stated earlier:

 

The brutality that was practiced upon defenseless people in Malawi

can never be justified. There is no question in my mind about that. The

government and party officials were determined to attain a state of total

conformity to their policy that all persons should possess a party card; it

was viewed as tangible evidence of loyalty to the governmental struc-

ture. The methods used to attain that goal were depraved, criminal. (p. 145)

[Evacuated]

11 hours ago, Eoin Joyce said:

Ngwazi meant "chief of chiefs" (more literally, "great lion", or, some would say, "conqueror") in Chicheŵa. (Wikipedia)

Out of interest, this term is used in the Chichewa bible to apply exclusively to Goliath in 1Samuel 17:4; 23 (champion), 51 (mighty one).

[JW Insider]

13 hours ago, AllenSmith said:

But I guess that's what trips up an engineer, as I am also one of many degrees most likely before you, back in the 70's.

You said you had 2 PhD's over on jw-archive.org.  And this is about the third time on theworldnewsmedia.org that you have mentioned having degrees. You said at least one of the PhD's was in Theology. Are both of them in Theology?

[Micah Ong]

10 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Notably, as regards the failure of the Malawian authorities to uphold the high principles of their Constitution, the Watch Tower Society had stated that the “ultimate responsibility” for the injustice must be placed on President Banda. (p.161)

Hence the danger of looking to a group of men(GB) to help you make decisions as though what they say is strongly backed by proper interpretation of scriptures at the time and then ultimately to Jehovah.

That's why a personal relationship with God and Jesus as your mediator is more important than going through a group of men, pope or whomever to ultimately dictate your life decisions based on bible principles.

Stock up on food supplies and build a bunker if you feel the need to and have the means...

[Anna]

 

17 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Trying to figure out if there is any evidence that could lead us to the real reason why this occurred in Mexico, and yet the same principles were not applied in Malawi or other some other Latin American countries

 

That's what I'm waiting for.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

About the fourth or so comment on this thread was mine where I made what I hoped was a ludicrous proposal to explain why one set of conduct was insisted upon by the Society for the African Brothers ... a lesser standard of allowing bribes for Latin American, specifically Mexican Brothers ... and a THIRD standard for Brothers in the United States and Europe, where bribing a public official, and lying about being the the reserve military, would get one disfellowshipped ( but not in Mexico).

My comment several days ago was this:

On 5/28/2017 at 7:13 AM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

White people are expected to be righteous and cannot do anything illegal, and can navigate the "legal" system.

"Brown" people are expected to be mostly good, and are allowed bribery, as they have trouble navigating the "legal system".

Black people are gullible, and expected not to be able to navigate ANY "legal system", or understand nuances.

If you have a better explanation, I would like to hear it, as my three children being of mixed race, and my having chosen my previous wife partly because of her mixed "brown", and "black" genetics ... I am not happy with the only thing that immediately comes to mind.

PS .( For those in Rio Linda that think I am a racist, I just cut you off at the knees ...)

After a week or so of very enlightening public discussion ... the question of WHY still cannot be answered without resorting to the use of phrases like " we just make this stuff up as we go along", or "gross incompetence".

Again I pose my original challenge ... if you can come up with a better explanation than what I HOPED would be an absurd premise ... I would like to hear your take on this.

.