WHAT DID YOU LEARN THAT WAS NEW AT THE 2019 "LOVE NEVER FAILS" REGIONAL CONVENTION ?

[Witness]

I'm curious how the convention grapples with 1 John 4:18:

 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

In a haven of well-practiced "punishment", does love exist?  In such an environment, would fear not exist?

 

[Melinda Mills]

On 7/8/2019 at 3:56 PM, Melinda Mills said:

I am trying to find out what was really said about animals, but it seems I will have to wait, if it is really on the programme. So far what was hinted at or rumoured according to Witness does not sound plausible.

(Anna just reminded me that I promised to post what I heard.)

This is what I understood the speaker to say: Don't elevate animals to status of man. Man was made in God's image and has the ability to love, appreciate wisdom, reasoning, music and poetry and worship. Animals can't do that.  The speaker also cited the  Leona Hemsley  and what she left in her will for her dog (and to have him buried beside her). He said to show love to our great God, Jehovah. Jehovah will provide for us as he provides for the birds who are assured of confident eating ( Matt 6:26).

[Anna]

3 minutes ago, Melinda Mills said:

This is what I understood the speaker to say: Don't elevate animals to status of man. Man was made in God's image and has the ability to love, appreciate wisdom, reasoning, music and poetry and worship. Animals can't do that.  The speaker also cited the  Leona Hemsley  and what she left in her will for her dog (and to have him buried beside her). He said to show love to our great God, Jehovah. Jehovah will provide for us as he provides for the birds who are assured of confident eating ( Matt 6:26).

Seems pretty reasonable to me.

[Witness]

Thank you, @Melinda Mills for finding this out.  Now I know what the hullabaloo is all about.  

"Man was made in God's image and has the ability to love, appreciate wisdom, reasoning, music and poetry and worship. Animals can't do that."

If animals have the ability to be fearful, joyful, loyal, even hateful, they certainly have the ability to show love - deep affection for another animal or human.

I had a cat that would settled down in front of the stereo speaker to listen to classical music as soon as it began.  There must have been some sort of appreciation there, in the form of contentment or pleasure. 

 

 

 

[JOHN BUTLER]

But this brings me back to the point of whether that talk is given exactly  the same at every convention. 

However I do agree that humans are much more important than animals, and God and Christ are much more important than humans. 

[Srecko Sostar]

47 minutes ago, Melinda Mills said:

Man was made in God's image and has the ability to love, appreciate wisdom, reasoning, music and poetry and worship. Animals can't do that.

Speaker missing to tell some things. Animals has not ability to do things as humans, but if God created them, He incorporated some qualities similar to humans. Or same as to humans but on different level. Searching for food, or even growing and collect food, creating family and offspring, care of them, fight for survive, showing affection to same and other species, etc. Cows give more milk after listening classical music :))) Speaker didn't done enough research on subject.

1 hour ago, Melinda Mills said:

Don't elevate animals to status of man.

Don't elevate humans to status of gods :))))   

Message has same principle, but speaker, i guess, missed to highlight and used The Same Principle and to made Parallel Lesson about same trap in spiritual interaction inside congregations and WT Society. 

 

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Concerning "Animals being given undo importance" ....

We are very fragile, big ugly bags of mostly water and require a LOT of things :of the world to stay alive, and healthy, and emotionally stable.

I have 16 pet chickens ( two died of heat exhaustion, from being run around the yard by my dogs, after flying out of their temporary enclosure, and I buried them this morning in the yard with little plastic pipe "tombstones" which I melted into the side with a soldering iron their names and date of death, which was yesterday).

And yet ... when I die, I do not care if I am just left where I fall, or someone puts my remains in a dumpster.

And yet ... today at Golden Corral, my wife and I ate fried chicken, and I pondered "Am I a hypocrite, for loving both live chickens ... and those crispy fried??"

I looked at myself in the mirror, and noticed my eyes are in front (predator), and the chickens' eyes are on the side of their heads (prey), and decided that  that is the natural order of things, and I should just get used to it, without recriminations.

Besides .... "Love Never Fails" .... and when I die, I will probably be too tough to eat, and with the fried  chicken .... it's no one we know.

[Anna]

4 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Or same as to humans but on different level. Searching for food, or even growing and collect food, creating family and offspring, care of them, fight for survive, showing affection to same and other species, etc. Cows give more milk after listening classical music :))) Speaker didn't done enough research on subject.

I am sure the speaker wouldn't argue with you on that. But the main point remains: animals were not created in God's image, whereas humans were.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

5 hours ago, Witness said:

If animals have the ability to be fearful, joyful, loyal, even hateful, they certainly have the ability to show love - deep affection for another animal or human.

I had a cat that would settled down in front of the stereo speaker to listen to classical music as soon as it began.  There must have been some sort of appreciation there, in the form of contentment or pleasure. 

I had a 5 year or so old Box Turtle ( tortoise, actually) that I rescued from a highway, and as I watched "him", ( and yes, you can tell...) it often occurred to me how ignorant we really are of what they think and feel ... and the colossal arrogance on people's part to assume they think less of their lives than we think of ours.

As I watched "Mr. Henry II", the thought occurred to me that beneath those plated decks might dwell the mind and heart of a great lover, and a consummate mathematician ... all day quietly working on equations for orbital mechanics, or parallel dimensions.

The things I have seen with my own eyes belies the arrogance and cluelessness of  Clergy who worship themselves.

When they pontificate about such things, they declare aloud their incompetence, and lack of credibility.

 

 

[TrueTomHarley]

15 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

As I watched "Mr. Henry II", the thought occurred to me that beneath those plated decks might dwell the mind and heart of a great lover, and a consummate mathematician ... all day quietly working on equations for orbital mechanics, or parallel dimensions.

You are getting close......awfully close. In fact, close enough. I will solve this baby for you.

Put your ear down to the turtle very very close and say just the right words, and he will explain the overlapping generations to you.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Just now, TrueTomHarley said:

Put your ear down to the turtle very very close and say just the right words, and he will explain the overlapping generations to you.

That is a GREAT idea ... as I am sure that only a Box Turtle could make sense of it.

 

[Srecko Sostar]

4 hours ago, Anna said:

I am sure the speaker wouldn't argue with you on that. But the main point remains: animals were not created in God's image, whereas humans were.

I will start with this WT Society quote from https://wol.jw.org/hr/wol/d/r19/lp-c/1102003023 : Tell him to stop and listen to the bird singing. Then ask him, "Who created the birds and taught them to sing?" God did this. God created heaven and earth and all living beings!He gives life.

Here we see how publication speaking about one special ability, among many others, ability to learn. So, by this quote we see how animals have ability to learn, and that, in a direct way, personally from God! :)) Yes, this WT Society book is for children, but as simplified edition it could be for adults too. :))

Let's go to article named: 

“His Invisible Qualities Are Clearly Seen”

 Paul said, "[God] invisible attributes, namely his eternal power and deity, have been clearly seen since the creation of the world, because they are distinguished by what is created, so that these people have no excuses" ( Romans 1:20 ). If we look closely at these words, we will be convinced that the Creator is like an artist who signed his masterpiece. - source: https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/wp20130801/believe-in-god/

It is also interesting that in same Creative Day, God has made land animals and humans - together. For First Humans God was not given one Special Day and Separate Day for creating this The Crown of His Creation - humans. No, He made them in the same day. Are Humans the Only Bearers of God’s Image? Humans are not made with some special materials, but also from dust as animals. 

Also, Genesis not telling us about how in Paradise existed predators and prays. But how all living as Equal Creatures, with no Mastering from first Human above any of animal. They all had equal position in Paradise. To live and be happy. Only after the Flood we see how God speaking about huge change - Permission to kill animals for food: Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything. Mastering over them in:  The fear and dread of you will fall on all the beasts of the earth, and on all the birds in the sky, on every creature that moves along the ground, and on all the fish in the sea; they are given into your hands. 

But something is also very interesting:

And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each human being, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of another human being.

Lifeblood of animals and of humans are on same Level before God!

And next thing is interesting:

“I now establish my covenant with you and with your descendants after you ¹⁰ and with every living creature that was with you—the birds, the livestock and all the wild animals, all those that came out of the ark with you—every living creature on earth.

Why would God made covenant with Animals as the same with Human. Why if Animals have no Qualities that God gave, supposedly, only to Human? Why, if Animals have no brain, conscious, heart, ability as Humans?

Humans are Unique in Degree but Not Kind. The capability differences between humans and other creatures seem finally to amount to differences of degree and not kind. The differences among creatures pertain to complexity. There are good reasons to believe humans share basic attributes with other creatures. - source: http://thomasjayoord.com/index.php/blog/archives/animals-made-in-gods-image

Obviously, we have a lot to learn about Animals as creatures made by God Himself. :))