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IICSA Inquiry - Child Protection in Religious Organisations and Settings 10 August 2020


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9 hours ago, César Chávez said:

1 Corinthians 6:1

Lawsuits Among Believers

6 If any of you has a dispute with another, do you dare to take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the Lord’s people? 2 Or do you not know that the Lord’s people will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? 3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! 4 Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, do you ask for a ruling from those whose way of life is scorned in the church? 5 I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? 6 But instead, one brother takes another to court—and this in front of unbelievers!

The very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated? 8 Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers and sisters. 9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

What "spiritual leaders" need to be, to have to be classified as competent to judge trivial cases? What are "trivial cases" is about? Murder? Child molestation? No matter are cases "trivial" or not, "spiritual leaders", as Paul gave idea, have to be "competent to judge". To be competent, one need to be educated and experienced in using this education and knowledge of specific subjects that including people and things.

Even over, Paul gave strong suggestion how to deal with "internal lawsuits" without so called "legislative" of any sort, "biblical" or "secular". Give up of your rights and give up of compensation for damage from your "brother". Whether WTJWorg and their spiritual leaders give up of "their rights" from "secular authorities"? Whether any JW member should give up and cancel any damage made by "worldly people"? Paul gave "principle idea". To give up and to be "wronged" and "cheated". If JW member are ready to behave in such manner inside own society of fellow witnesses, how more JW member should show same "faith" in front of "unbelievers"? Matt 5 said: 

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[i] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

 

9 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Mark 12:17

And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.

Jesus and God were/are "heavenly authority" who put Romans on position of power. And they put them on that position according to "heavenly legislative", if we can said this way. We can assume how God expecting from people to learn and understand "divine law". Why any would think how God, who put them on position of "secular authority" to correct and punish all people, not just "worldly" people but also "christian people" aka JW members, would not be interested that people learn about "secular law" too? Because "secular law" is from God, according to Romans 13. If "secular authority" have legalism and legality established by God himself, than their "laws" have it too. :))

With Jesus you put focus, it is obvious how he, as "spiritual leader", knew what "secular law" said about taxes or any other legal issue. It is clear from what he said that people need to know what "belong" to Caesar for purpose of knowledge and for purpose to be able to give obligated things to "secular authority". 

And for the sake of "balance", God gave people possibility to act according to "personal conscience". And to obey or disobey all sort of regulations, inside "biblical legislation" or inside "secular legislation". This is sort of first "human right" from time of Adam and Eve.

Of course, we need to be in reality and said this too. All this 3 sort of instruments; divine, secular and inside law are susceptible to spoilage.

And because of that, speaking from position of "faith", God in his grace was, is and will help all sort of people according to his judgement.   

So many things are "relative" and our/mine theological discussion too. :))    

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https://www.iicsa.org.uk/key-documents/20893/view/public-hearing-transcript-10-august-2020.pdf ✔@InquiryCSA The transcript for Day 12 of the Child Protection in #ReligiousOrganisa

Having been in contact with the IICSA they requested information about a situation that I made them aware of.  So I have forwarded the information with my contact details, which it seems they will for

This have interesting connotations. But according to the role assigned to them by the JW organization, they should be: shepherds who take care of all the needs of their flock, investigators, prosecuto

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 @César Chávez Oh dear, it is you that twists things to suit your own purpose. 

Quote My question to you is, try to keep up, “if” James is found guilty, would it be the GB’s Watchtowers fault?

No it would not be the GB's Watchtowers fault.  

Quote "Can you prove to your inquest that I am slandering JTR,

Well you said You are defending James Thomas Rook Jr an immoral man that was or still is part of the same organization,

You called James 'an immoral man' when you have no proof of such. I would say that is prejudging James and i would consider that slander.

Quote " If James is found guilty, then you will have no “choice” but to include him with those found guilty from the Watchtower."

If James is still a member of the CCJW then I would include him in my accusations against the GB and the CCJW / Watchtower.

My accusations against the GB and CCJW are totally different to the accusations being against JTR by the police / court.  

My accusations against the GB are that they made up rules which caused Paedophiles to be kept hidden within the CCJW or Watchtower (as you like to call it).  That the GB and their Lawyers are still withholding the Database, in America, containing over 20 years worth of accusations of Child Sexual Abuse, therefore the people kept hidden in that Database cannot be brought to justice and the Victims cannot find peace. 

My accusation against the GB is they do not want to pay compensation to Victims of CSA even when it has been proven that the Elders were following the rules made up by the GB. And that it was the rules made up by the GB that allowed the Paedophiles to continue to molest children.

My accusation against the GB is that they misguide the 8.5 million JWs by pretending to be the Faithful and Discreet Slave, a name which they have given themselves, and by so doing they have exalted themselves above the true Anointed. 

My accusation against the GB is that they are actually the Evil Slave class mentioned in Matthew 24 v 48 & 49

“But if ever that evil slave says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying,’ 49  and he starts to beat his fellow slaves and to eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards, 

Because the GB tells the Anointed not to met together for prayer or Bible study and the GB tell the Anointed that if they do meet together they will be 'working against the Holy spirit'.  Whereas the Anointed are the body of Christ and should be allowed to meet together whenever they want to. 

My accusation against the GB is that they do not use the words from Scripture for the baptism, and because of that the GB have people baptised into the Organisation not baptised into serving God through Christ. 

My accusation against the GB is that they are a stumbling block to many JWs and to many people that would want to serve God properly. The GB are the cause for many JWs to leave the Organisation because of the GB's man made rules (traditions of men). 

Therefore, my accusation against JWs is that they support the GB in all of the above wrongdoing.  Anyone remaining in the CCJW / Watchtower right now has a part in being guilty of the GB's sins and crimes. Because the GB could not do what they do on their own. 

Anyone that supports this immoral and dishonest CCJW organisation is guilty of it's sins and crimes. 

 

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3 hours ago, César Chávez said:

If someone cheated me out of my money? Would I go through great lengths to retrieve it? If it was a brother, would I allow myself to be wronged? 

Please, if you like to share with us here, what are your answers on your own questions?

3 hours ago, César Chávez said:

1 Timothy 5

Please, what standards JW elders or you will put on issue of helping widows? How would you/them determine "real widows", would you put some income census, number of minor or adult children, area of living, governmental programs etc. Would you at all involved "secular legislation" into this congregational matter? Because you try so hard to separate "secular and spiritual organizations", church and state. 

3 hours ago, César Chávez said:

you cannot make secular decisions based on scripture

???? really? :)))

3 hours ago, César Chávez said:

no more than secular authority can't make a decision of someone's spirituality based on secular law. 

???? really? 

 

Spirituality means different things to different people. For some, it's primarily about a belief in God and active participation in organized religion. For others, it's about non-religious experiences that help them get in touch with their spiritual selves through quiet reflection, time in nature, private prayer, yoga, or meditation.

Many people identify as spiritual but not religious: With a few exceptions, the percentage of adults who identify as religious in many industrialized countries is declining, while remaining generally high in less developed nations. Even as religious affiliation decreases, though, a sense of spiritual identification could remain steady or even increase. -https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/basics/spirituality

When secular laws speaking about moral standards and ethic than it is about spiritual life of particular society. With this context, secular authority is able to make conclusions and decisions about someone's spirituality.

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4 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

My accusations against the GB are that they made up rules which caused Paedophiles to be kept hidden within the CCJW or Watchtower (as you like to call it).  That the GB and their Lawyers are still withholding the Database, in America, containing over 20 years worth of accusations of Child Sexual Abuse, therefore the people kept hidden in that Database cannot be brought to justice and the Victims cannot find peace. 

My accusation against the GB is they do not want to pay compensation to Victims of CSA even when it has been proven that the Elders were following the rules made up by the GB. And that it was the rules made up by the GB that allowed the Paedophiles to continue to molest children.

Good points. WTJWorg made excuses that they have no "institutional settings" for redress scheme in Australia. Also they have no "institutional settings" to announce public apologize for wrongs they done in handling CSA or any other cases. Shameful explanation.

If JW organization is not able to make "institutional settings" that missing now, it is fascinating to hear that this modern, advanced organization with so many Departments and Helpers is not ready and in capacity, competence to produce settings for victims, own members and former members. Such massive and global administration, supposedly backed by God and founded on spiritual values are not ready to face this need. Funny.  

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@César Chávez you are full of bluff and nonsense just like the GB you worship. 

Keep it up. You will fall at the same time your GB fall. You will fall because you do not have humility just like your GB does not have humility.

I've answered all your questions. It's just that you are blind to the answers because your GB have blinded you. You even deny your own words that you have written, but those words are here to be seen by everyone.  You cannot get much more 'blind' than that. The blindness is not in your physical eyes, your blindness is in your heart and mind. 

You have been brainwashed by your GB. You really think that the Watchtower is in line with Jesus when in truth the Watchtower is against Jesus and His Bride. 

 

 

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I can see that C.C. is lost for any sensible words to say.  Get well soon C.C.  

But remember C.C. that the more you support that GB the more guilty of sin you are. And you are more guilty than many JWs because many JWs do not have all the information you have.  You have all the information about the GB's sins so you can indeed judge them for yourself. And you do need to judge them because you follow them. Be fully aware of whom you follow and serve, for you neither follow or serve Almighty God or Jesus Christ. 

I wish you well.  

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