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CHILD SEX ABUSE INVESTIGATORS MAY PROBE THE JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES

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Independent investigators in the United Kingdom are weighing whether to launch a new investigation into the Jehovah’s Witnesses in the U.K. after receiving a “considerable number” of abuse allegations.

The Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse, or IICSA, a government-sanctioned investigative panel in England and Wales, told The Guardian that it had gotten a “considerable number” of reports from both the public and elected officials about the Jehovah’s Witnesses in the U.K. A spokesperson told the newspaper the panel would “consider calls for a Jehovah’s Witnesses–specific investigation carefully.” 

It was unclear how many reports the watchdog group had received. When contacted by Newsweek, Jehovah’s Witnesses’ public information office did not immediately comment.

Kathleen Hallisey, a lawyer who brought charges against the Jehovah’s Witnesses for sexual abuse in 2015, said she suspected there are thousands of such cases in the U.K., The Guardian reported. 

“The Jehovah’s Witnesses refuse to recognize the issue of child abuse in their organization or to create robust safeguarding procedures to protect children,” she said. “An investigation by IICSA into the Jehovah’s Witnesses is an opportunity for the inquiry to effect real change in an organization that refuses to shine a light on child abuse and protect children.”

News of the possible investigation comes weeks after the nonprofit religious transparency organization Faithleaks leaked 33 letters and internal documents revealing a pattern of sexual abuse by one Jehovah’s Witness member, and the lengths the church went to cover up the scandal. 

Those documents detail communications among church leaders and several legal entities—collectively known as Watchtower—between 1999 and 2012. In one letterto Watchtower dated November 14, 1999, the Palmer Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses from Brimfield, Massachusetts, said it had reviewed claims by two women who alleged their father sexually abused them as children. The group found those claims to be true. 

“Our impression upon speaking with both girls was similar. That they are both quite rational. It certainly appears that these were real events,” the letter said. 

In that case, church leaders pressured one of the accusers not to report the abuse to police. Years later, the church held an in-house trial and briefly excommunicated the father. 

That victim was not the only person pressured to remain silent. 

In the U.K., several alleged victims had come forward with similar claims in November 2017, according to The Telegraph. 

“Frankly, I would equate this to a scandal and a cover-up akin to the Catholic Church,” Hallisey told The Telegraph at the time.

    Hello guest!

 

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This is excellent

On 3/9/2018 at 3:01 AM, Nicole said:

Independent investigators in the United Kingdom are weighing whether to launch a new investigation into the Jehovah’s Witnesses in the U.K. after receiving a “considerable number” of abuse allegations.

The only honest response is "bring it on!"

Can you see how this applies?: 

“Every kingdom divided against itself comes to ruin, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand. In the same way, if Satan expels Satan, he has become divided against himself; how, then, will his kingdom stand?"

Matt.12:25-26

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On 3/12/2018 at 4:07 PM, AllenSmith said:

As compared to which * PERFECT* organization or institution, especially GOVERNMENT run institutions that like to HIDE, CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE as NOT to be seen as hypocrites for aggressively going after others rather than starting with their own.

 

By, your standards? Then there are millions of children abused that have gone unreported. So, how do you reconcile your narrow mindedness?

 

If this is no place for controversial post, then why post such an uneducated, post that DOESN’T include ALL claims of child abuse by County, City, State, Country, Institution etc.

 

Let's not do whataboutism. The organization has frequently used the pedophile cover ups in the catholic church and secular institutions to support their moral superiority and divine backing. So should we now accept that this organization is no better than them? Isn't the whole point that our org is BETTER than these other religions/organizations because we are a spiritual paradise?

I understand that child abuse is a problem that cannot be stamped and is present in all large organizations. BUT the organization has done itself no favors by doubling down on their messed up policies which have allowed abuse to continue in congregations. And they have been completely zip-lipped with their own members--refusing to be transparent about this ongoing problem. JWs are owed transparency on this matter. It's the least they could do.

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Aside from UK JWs investigation, they must also dealing with other groups who act under the radar, the no so religious ones, who literally take children underground or in expensive and private locations, to molest, torture and sometimes kill their child victims, at times, the child of the victims, born into this world, who are subjected to satanic sacrifice before they even have 1 month of life, which takes place right under the noses of the people of UK and the government, especially the likes of  PM, Theresa May.

I do not see why people tend to think child abuse itself is isolated within a single religious group, or just merely religion as a whole, for such is everywhere.

 

That being said, I had some sources I would have posted here regarding the UK as a whole, but the 1984 troop has wiped out that information a few days ago.

 

All in all, it will be the same as everything else in terms of the abused and the abuser.

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16 hours ago, Noble Berean said:

And they have been completely zip-lipped with their own members--refusing to be transparent about this ongoing problem. JWs are owed transparency on this matter. It's the least they could do.

I am beginning to come around to NB's point of view. 

They DO owe us more.

If you drill into the data (and this is discussed on the other thread - opposers have seen fit to start not just one, but TWO, simultaneous threads - it becomes evident that Jehovah's Witnesses have a greater prevention rate of child sexual abuse ten-fold over that of anyone else!

Imagine. Ten times the success rate of others! THIS is the fact that should be highlighted for members that need or want to know and in not doing this they are being let down. 

They are letting the enemies frame the entire argument. They should not do this.

Now - techically it is inaccurate to say they have ten times the success rate of prevention than anyone else. They have ten times the success rate of the general population. Who is to say how they stack up to the Baptists or the Adventists or the atheists or the - anyone? There is no way to tell, because nobody else dared touch these figures. Obviously chlld sexual abuse occurs everywhere - just tune in the TV news to convince yourself - but nobody else cared or dared to look into their own membership with a view of uncovering and disciplining the evil actions within their own organization!

Thus whenever anyone else is charged with child sexual abuse, their rellgion is never a factor - it is never reported (unless they are clergy)The Witness organization fails its members by not pointing this out. How did there come to be a "pedophile list" in the first place? It is a consequence of internal church disciple so as to present to God a clean people that the Bible says he demands. EVERYONE should have done this and NOBODY did. THAT is the fact that should be highlighted endlessly.

By not doing this, they have reduced good solid loyal members to saying: "well - we don't like child sexual abuse either - really, we don't." That is why I appreciate @AllenSmith, abrasive though he is. He does not fall into this trap. He does not let those who hate Jehovah's Witnesses assume the higher moral ground. He tirelessly points out why they do not deserve it. Every once in a while he goes too far and he is tossed out on his ear. (though I have never heard of this happening to his opponents who can be equally outlandish) But he dusts himself off, alters the spelling of his name, and rejoins the fray.

Bethel should not let the haters of Christian organization frame their 'reality' in preferance of the one which is far more important. Why are they doing it? My guess is that they are like deer caught in the headlights. They are decent, honest men - not oily manipulators - and they are dumbfounded that a deed with such good motive should be portrayed as so foul.

What are they guilty of anyway? There is a reason for the expression "skeletons in the closet." It is the universal human instinct to keep them there. They were slow to realize that the new imperitive is to stampede them through Dodge City. They have never said members should not go to outside authorities should they become aware of abuse. It is at most presiding over a culture in which people are reluctant to air dirty laundry in public because they try to represent something very high and they are loathe to sully it by advertizing when they contrary conduct in their midst. These days elders positively urge families to report to authorities when they come across an instance of it only to find not everyone want to be on the 11 News as the home of Today's Pervert. If it is not mandated by law, you cannot make them, nor can you go over their head and do it yourself. This is why Bro Jackson pleaded to make it mandatory accorss all territories because it would "make out job so much easier."

They have to deal with what really is the smaller picture, which is being done, while they steadfasting make sure the greater picture is in sharp focus: a prevention rate that is ten times that of the general population.

Seen in this light, if there are to be more inquiries in other countries, parallel to what the ARC has done, and those who hate Witnesses are wetting themselves in anticipation, I say Bring It On! 

Let each one of them establish what the ARC did - that Jehovah's Witnesses are head and shoulders above others in preventing child sexual abuse. Let the sole victory of the opposers be to say: "Well - well - well, they're not perfect, are they?"

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18 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

If you drill into the data (and this is discussed on the other thread - opposers have seen fit to start not just one, but TWO, simultaneous threads - it becomes evident that Jehovah's Witnesses have a greater prevention rate of child sexual abuse ten-fold over that of anyone else!

The data is evident on those who do such things, what opponents of the JWs or opponents of religion in general, do not understand is that they are creating a monster that they cannot tame, perhaps already running wild and about from the things I have seen and read, for they fail to see child abuse is all over and target a specific faith because of said faith suffering from child abuse who is obviously not immune to such things, now in regards to the United Kingdom, they will scream, rant and lose their minds on the problems the JWs are dealing with  child abuse on their end, but these same opponents will not bat an eye for the children affected by Rotherham Grooming Gang, the Haut de la Garenne, Newcastle sex rings, and a plethora of other groups and institutions with people of bad intent that have mingled among them without being noticed.

This also goes for those who claim child abuse and attack Christianity and the Bible (some goes as far as to rip and burn it no matter the translation), or in this case, religion as a whole, so when one attacks a JW, a Unitarian, a Jew or a Muslim, etc, the blame will just automatically be pinned on religion regardless of the faith, some may have it bad than others and suffer from physical harm should they be targeted on the streets because of their faith, for at that point it won't be persecution, it will just be shear brutality on said person, and I am sure the Jehovah's Witnesses are aware of the early 1900s, for ever since the whole NFL kneeling thing, the history was talked about.

Now, it is understandable, for those who do bad, we can't have anyone in the weeds, so to speak, but at the same time, to be brutal with a group and twisting scripture against them only contributes to bigger problems, something such persons cannot see, and only few people like me, you and others tend to be aware of people who do such things.

For better solutions and better ways on dealing with child abuse has been throw out the window and people seem to stick to just attacking a religion for a problem that is weaved within the very land they walk on.

The more the silliness continues, the more of the very people and their supports that were in Detroit a few years ago will only get stronger, and Christianity itself will decline further and religion will be the subject of targeting more and more as the days go by.

As for the prevention rate, even with facts before them, they will ignore it sadly - someone brought this up elsewhere and the anti-religion crowd just attacked and ignored the information, for they were not targeting JWs, they were targeting religion as a whole, which is somewhat evident today that most religious people tend not to be aware of at times. I was once told, you can give a sick man medicine for his illness, but he will ignore it and not accept it, even though it can help in dealing with his pain, in this sense, even with facts you provide, they'll ignore and not accept it, and continue on a warpath without having better solutions and ways of going about the issue of child abuse - going as far as to twist fact to tickle the ears of the masses to join the same foolish cause when others are doing it the right and correct way in gunning for the problem at hand and not a specific group of persons.

That being said, my opinion, as do most, the best way to really prevent child abuse in most cases if faced with it as best as we can is just to educate the child and or parents, friends, relatives, etc. This has been the case with one of the victims in the JWs in regards to the ARC due to Watchtower articles on child abuse revealing to her what it actually is, and even outside of the Watchtower, this is the position that people have taken, which is smart. Such has helped some people learn about the issue that others have gone as far as to make thousands of videos on this subject for saying at least one child is a plus on anyone's part for educating someone on child abuse be it videos, articles, or verbally, and the like, for when a child is taught on the issue they can identify the signs of child abuse should it starts on them or someone they know.

But what to expect by people living in a box, not taking the moment or even having a mere thought of looking and or stepping out of the box for once - that is today's society for you.

They'll continue to do what they do instead of talking with the person, they will attack them and or their faith because of said subject, child abuse, and never, not even once (surprisingly), you have seen someone come to common ground on the issue at hand and what can be taught or learnt. Only one time when 3 people stepped up, they were attacked by opponents of the faith, the very man whom got a group of people to seek out and dislike, bash, insult these individuals. I believe John had posted of whom I speak, for the gofundme link was a direct link to who this British man is.

One day it is going to come to a point where someone is going to get hurt via influence opponents will spread in public and or online, and surprisingly some have speculated that was the case regarding a hate crime in the UK - but later down the road, who knows how worse it could get, since religion, well in this case, Christianity is not as fancied by some as it was before.

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On 3/17/2018 at 3:53 PM, Noble Berean said:

Let's not do whataboutism. The organization has frequently used the pedophile cover ups in the catholic church and secular institutions to support their moral superiority and divine backing. So should we now accept that this organization is no better than them? Isn't the whole point that our org is BETTER than these other religions/organizations because we are a spiritual paradise?

I understand that child abuse is a problem that cannot be stamped and is present in all large organizations. BUT the organization has done itself no favors by doubling down on their messed up policies which have allowed abuse to continue in congregations. And they have been completely zip-lipped with their own members--refusing to be transparent about this ongoing problem. JWs are owed transparency on this matter. It's the least they could do.

Everyone speaks of pedophilia and child abuse and cover-ups, no matter the faith, the background or affiliation, be it religious or non-religious and when such is done, no such persons hold up to any moral superiority (this is a first of such I have seen), especially in an imperfect world who abuses the gift given to them, the gift of Free-Will.

I wouldn't say it is an acceptance of who is better and who is not. Church organizations tend to be better in theology, scripture, teachings and the like than others, for they are the shepherds to their flock, those who follow such churches are people of different backgrounds, and since most churches tend to Evangelize people regarding what is said in the bible about making disciples and the like and teaching the gospel to a multitude of people. As for Spiritual Paradise, there is still imperfection no matter who the person is.

As for policies, if someone follows what is scriptural, it does not make it messed up, foolish and or ridiculous, for anyone hardpressed in scripture will follow it and live by it, that being said, I take the word of the ARC on how regarding the rules and regulations of said faith and at least come to a conclusion as to the how and why such rules they have are so, in addition to that, if they have information on child abuse to teach to their followers, should the followers accept it, that tells you something, for not many are willing to teach about child abuse unless it actually happens unexpectedly among the community of a faith. Plus elsewhere there has been many, many discussions about the rules, beliefs of other faiths in addition to their policies, with fact and how such is used, I know enough, as do others who really look into it themselves instead of some randoms making a rule out into something that it is not.

As for speaking to the members of said issues, it is up to them if they want to keep it among the leaders within that church location and or tell their members this, only if such is okay with the family/victim and the sake of the victim and guardian of the victim, you have to respect that. Some matters at times are kept private, only known by the leaders and the family of the victim, or should the family state they want to time to heal before anything can be said to others, as for the abuser, what can simply be said is so and so has has removed and or no longer with the church, something along those lines and evidently later on they will know the reason why, but again, depends on those in authority within the church or institution and how the family is involved if their child is victim.

I say this because some parents of victims tend not to want such information disclosed about what they have been through to be made public to local churchgoers, and respecting one's privacy until their ordeal has been dealt with is a a positive thing. Even outside of a church, parents of the victim will have very few and or specific persons of whom they disclosed the information of child abuse to, which will eventually get on the radar of the police, this has been heavily expressed in PSAs regarding child abuse met to teaching adults, teens, and children alike and options available, teaching them of personal spaces, talking to people you trust (talking to adults on what took place, asking of other adults, etc), for anyone in those age groups witness child abuse or know the signs and or dealing with someone who has already been affected, especially when it comes to young ones, unaware of what happen and is confused, keeping the information secret from others and will only express the truth about the abuse to someone that they trust, it could be parents, other than the parents, it could be a friend, a teacher, a neighbor, etc. In the end, it is there choice of how they want to deal with the situation to have  positive outcome for the family and the victim. PSAs and  information can easily be found, I would post some here, but obviously what is said in the PSAs is and will evidently be ignored when the reality and truth is expressed through them.

For there is a saying, respect the wishes of the family, should they choose to go down that route, no matter who they are or what they believe, to go back should said person bring it up only makes you not a trusted person.

But I do strongly agree, Child Abuse is indeed a problem, a big problem, and it is among the branches of other things like human trafficking, sacrifice/killing of children, etc. Other things, even minor things is considered Child Abuse and will result in your own children to be taken away from you, etc. Also you have to also realize it isn't not always an adult that is the abuser, when it comes to that point, it becomes very difficult and complex of how things are dealt with in order to help the victim of this form of child abuse. Another thing to note is you have to be aware that no matter the group or institution, they will most likely do an internal investigation first while on the other hand the victim's family will aid and or seek help outside of the internal investigation if or if not said persons called the police.

An example of internal investigation regarding child abuse, a teacher having had intercourse with a minor outside of school grounds (sometimes on school grounds itself), said teacher had been exposed via internal investigation, 50% of the time it is found out via social media or a high probability due to the student who is the victim. The school will zero in on teacher and fire her, and with what is known, the police is contacted by the school and or the victim's parents when the school informs them of such conduct (often times the parents do the investigation themselves before contacting the police) and not many are made known as to why said teacher was fired until months later down the road when said information is given the green light to be made public with the minor and or major evidence against the abuser, that is, the teacher - rarely is police called immediately when a known abuse is present, especially with the recent cases in both public and religious schools in the US. The teacher, now removed, school continues day in and day out, the victim will return should he chooses to and will seek counsel about his ordeal should he accept it, the parents of the victim will be on high alert and learn about child abuse themselves and or is informed about it by the police.

That being said, internal investigations is pretty much the norm to religious, business, and educational based institutions, and or secondary groups/activities, etc.

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4 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

As for the prevention rate, even with facts before them, they will ignore it sadly

Thank you, SM. I do what I think you are doing as well.

When I answer @JOHN BUTLER, I am not really speaking to him (I did at first), because he has demonstrated that he is inflexible in his opinion. He has, as one friend put it, a mind of concrete - all mixed up and firmly set.

So when I address him I am not addressing him but the audience beyond him, which I don't think is particularly large. And I am honing my own remarks for repetition at a later time to ones that are - where it will do more good, and encouraging others to do the same.

We will lose the battle, ultimately, because Christ said they will 'lyingly say every wicked thing about you' and 'if they persecuted me, they will persecute you.' But we fight back anyway and package the truth as cogently as we can "for a witness to them."

It is like Mark Sanderson said with regard to the Russian ban. We got creamed in that courtroom and yet he gushed afterward on about 'the wonderful witness' given. Is he for real? Yes, because there is no question that Christians are going to lose the war in this system of things. What you want to do is to draw honest - hearted people so that they can see what is going on and take action themselves.

The enemies in Russia wanted to snuff us out quietly. The Governing Body did not permit that to happen. They made sure, if it was to be done, it would be done with huge publicity. It is like Paul saying  "This thing has not been done in a corner," and on that account confidently addressing honest hearted ones: "I know you believe."

It will work out this way with the child sexual abuse "every wicked sort of thing" allegations, too. Though more sordid on the 'every sort of wicked thing' scale,. It will work out "for a witness" to honest hearted ones, once the issue is framed correctly, and I do not think this has yet been done. But it will be.

Meanwhile, you are assisting in that goal. It is a good thing for you to be weighing in on this, showing how child sexual abuse is everywhere, often in far worse forms than anything discussed here, but is most vehemently condemned only when it is associated with religion. 

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Poor old @TrueTomHarley his only pleasure in life seems to be to slander peoples names and to pretend to know the minds of such ones. 

When he is presented with truth he side tracks, goes off on a tangent. 

He goes on about this percentage thing so much as if it has any meaning at all. 

If this issue is about the Child Abuse within the Jehovah's Witnesses Organisation then I politely suggest we keep it as such. 

Comparing it to the world has no relevance what so ever.  As I've said, and need to repeat it seems, the Nation of Israel turned away from God and they offered their children to false gods by burning their children in the fire.

Would the Nation of Israel say to God, 'But God, we didn't burn as many of our children as the other nations did' would God have been impressed with that ? No of course not. 

Why is Tom tom so impressed with this stupid percentage thing ? I'm sure God is not impressed with it. 

And his latest thing here is this :  '...because Christ said they will 'lyingly say every wicked thing about you...' Oh dear Tom tom, wake up, it is not lies they are saying and its Earthwide. Many cases have already been proved to be true. Surely you have to know that.

And for anyone else reading this, but not for Tom tom as he has decided in his own mind that I am wicked, but for those of you with open minds I tell you this. I left the JW Org because my conscience would not allow me to stay in it, due to my findings about the Child Abuse Earthwide within the Org... I am not anti JW Org, I am not anti religion, i am not a part of any protest group nor part of any anti religious group of any sort. I am an individual with my own mind and my own thoughts. I am looking for the truth from God, not from men.

 

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13 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

And for anyone else reading this, but not for Tom tom as he has decided in his own mind that I am wicked, but for those of you with open minds I tell you this. I left the JW Org because my conscience would not allow me to stay in it, due to my findings about the Child Abuse Earthwide within the Org... I am not anti JW Org, I am not anti religion, i am not a part of any protest group nor part of any anti religious group of any sort. I am an individual with my own mind and my own thoughts. I am looking for the truth from God, not from men.

I believed we talked on this before in one of your other posts and I understand your position after reading various comments from you, but child abuse among Jehovah's Witnesses is happening in several countries, I wouldn't say worldwide among them though, mostly in the European Countries rarely does it happen in countries and even if it did it is very very low, examples being Asian countries such as South Korea and or Japan due to the filial piety and child laws, the Congo and or parts of Africa, for it is known fact that African Christians tend not to do such stuff, especially if they are devoted to a Christian faith and profess it, Middle Eastern and or Syranic JWs, as well as those living in Tehran, Yemen, pretty much most of the Arabian Emirates of where they can be found, and they tend not to do anything regarding child abuse, however, Christians are subjected to their opponent's attacks, even in some cases children of a Christian family end up getting kidnapped and auction off as a bride and or sex slave and is subjected to vile forms of abuse known to man. Some JWs, by law can be targeted to be killed and or beheaded in some cases, therefore, not a whole lot of preaching can be done in a malevolent Islamic community.

The reality is the child abuse epidemic that also affected the Jehovah's Witnesses is more centered in areas like the UK, Australia, and the US, for those, and evidently it is a problem, and child abuse when combined with all groups and institutions is a globe problem, of which some people are ironically in denial of.

I do not like to use race in this, but what is said is true regarding pedophilia and child abuse.

Other then that, it won't stop a person from joining them or any faith. A pastor lured a child with a bible into a classroom, violating a child, even though the abuser was dealt with, it didn't stop people from becoming Christians or did anyone went out of a church in droves when a pastor shoots a man dead, who was only speaking aloud for he had been wronged, in the chest inside a crowded church, the same can be said about Jews, Muslims, etc.

Just keep in your mind that eventually when Jesus returns this will change. God by means of his chosen Christ, of whom he has given authority, will judge those who do wrong, and them alone will be punished. No man, woman or child, be it outside or in the womb, is perfect- all is imperfect. The Bible teaches this, be it in a religion or not, but profess to scripture, you have to respect what is written and adhere by it, just do not get carried away with it because a small shift can change a man even though if he thinks he is in the right and or doing good.

As for Tom, it is safe to say he reacted the way he did because of the response gets, especially in regards to the discussion between the both of you. For this is a discussion of not doctrine, belief and or faith, it is about an issue in regards to a problem this world faces, for we are of God, it would be wise to dose down conflict about an issue than to entice it, I need not have to bring a bible verse or two for such things for it should be evident. In the end, both of you, all of us are against child abuse, just to make sure this is clear for everyone.

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15 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The enemies in Russia wanted to snuff us out quietly. The Governing Body did not permit that to happen. They made sure, if it was to be done, it would be done with huge publicity. It is like Paul saying  "This thing has not been done in a corner," and on that account confidently addressing honest hearted ones: "I know you believe."

The Russia ban issue is far deeper and more complex than one realizes, I brought this up before here, especially to Robert in one of the threads. What is a key element in all this is the recent election of Vladimir Putin, which was expected by some, as well as those who didn't like how Russia was going down a Soviet Era like path. At this point for Jehovah's Witnesses, it will not end well for them there, JW opponents think of the ban as a victory, but what they didn't realize is what went down 2014 and onward regarding the Kremlin, the Duma, and the Russian Church, and how, hellish things are going to get for the Russian people - which has already spawn conspiracy.

Just know that regarding the ban of JWs, other parities were also involved, an example would be France, specifically NGOs of France in combination with Alexander Dvorkin, Patriarch Cyrill, and a number of other key players among the Kremlin and the Duma, in addition to how the JWs have proven to be an inconvenience to the Kremlin weeks prior to the election.

Speaking about Child Abuse, it is also ironically as to how no one speaks of the child abuse done to JW children in Russia by opponents, but apparently no one bats an eye about it.

That being said, this is a reminder for me to delve back into the Russian part of media again, for now since Putin has been re-elected, there is bound to be new information.

 

Other then that, it is unlikely you would hear anyone talking about JW children being abused by people outside of their faith or how now they'll be treated, which is being talked about by Orthodoxy and Non-Orthodoxy Christians in Russia who didn't like what was done to the JWs.

In short, it will not be a good time for anyone who is not on the side of the Kremlin, the RoC and the Duma. I know JWs do not do politics, but these leaders will be somewhat of a obstacle for them in Russia - perhaps prove more of a threat to Americans also. If you can be jailed and marked as an extremist for making a joke, being a poet or playing Pokemon, it will only continue to get far worse from that, and it will get bad for the JWs. But seeing they pushed through the Soviet days, endurance is key for them, and surprisingly the hundreds of protesters who were taken down by the Kremlin notice who the JWs are and how they endured in those days.

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Could you elucidate on these statements?

28 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

in addition to how the JWs have proven to be an inconvenience to the Kremlin weeks prior to the election.

and 

29 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

surprisingly the hundreds of protesters who were taken down by the Kremlin notice who the JWs are and how they endured in those days.

thx.

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2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Could you elucidate on these statements?

3 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

That Jehovah's Witnesses do not vote, take sides in the realm of politics and will not submit to taking part in Russia's events of glorifying violence such as the Victory Day Parades held by Russia every year, for the Kremlin considers Jehovah's Witnesses as a threat the reasons why the French NGOs and Alexander along with the Russian Church all pitched in to get them banned by twisting that Yarovaya Law, therefore over the years, Russia controlled media will slander and attack JWs every chance they get. Ironically, the ban took place after both the Pope Francis visit and Cyrill's trip to Antarctica to, as he puts it, to receive "Spiritual Power", then came the mass protesting, the ban on JWs, the arrest of well over thousands of people, The Alexei Navanly Troop and the extremist finger pointing as well as the bible itself will make you a target and subjected to arrest should Russia police and or FSB take action against you. JW kids have been abused by other children, verbally, as well as professors in school because of their faith and the fact that they do not partake in political events in Russia or join the army, which explains the situation in Russian controls Crimea. JWs and suppose opponents of the Kremlin are being watched everyday, even stalked regardless of the age group, even if a crime is done to them and or a child is abuse by someone from the outside, the FSB will not really do much, by chance Russian police will react when information of violent abuse is reported, but nothing would be done.

The website that they track people with is using a device called FindFace which can literally find anyone within the Russian social media space, for the software itself makes Edward Snowden blush. such a thing can easily be abuse and has been used by creepy people on the internet who tend to use the power of that software to located people, specifically track down women. The FSB has taken hold of this software and used it again, exploited it to benefit themselves and the Kremlin, and had used it to hunt down protesters, Navanly Heroes, but, they had a separate site that track people of religious affiliations, specifically those outside of the Russian Orthodox Church such, including Jehovah's Witnesses, Muslims, the Non-Orthodoxy, Hindis, in addition to tracking down Homosexuals, for if anyone caught by the FSB, especially in Chechnya, it will not end well for the person.

I manage to find one of the sites, this was was originally .ru, but they changed it and replaced it with the .com version, for the .ru ones can't be found anymore because it is either blocked or the address had been changed, but this is the idea of how they track people, posting their information to the public, and prior to the JW ban, the people listed on that site had been, well on the .ru versions, hunted down and dealt with.

    Hello guest!
 (the original .ru one does not exist anymore so the link is just but an example of its former self, the one that targets religion and homosexuals have had their address changed)

Of course a good idea made by very smart and intellegent minds, there will be those who will take said idea and turn it into a weapon:

 

Now in regards to not taking part in political and military service, youth of the JW faith are normally attacked verbally by peers and professors of a school, in addition to such increasing against them when it came to the events in Russia known as Victory Day Parades, as some called it, a day of glorifying violence and or military might – nationalism, as well:

The usual portrayal of JWs in Russia, other videos have been removed and or turned private while the ????? and ?????? 24 to name a few are several of Russian Kremlin controlled media outlets, but this is but an example of what I speak of in regards of slandering someone's faith – other than that the Duma has also made hundreds of new laws prior to the ban that blocks broadcasting of real news information, reasons why some people in Russia trust and are lucky to find the RFERL for they are independent media: 

 

Mixing of actual footage and false footage of JWs in Russia, done so by the hands of the Russian mainstream media: 

 

 

But yeah this is RFERL, among the many independents who actually speak truth on what is going on in Russia, despite parts of them being blocked by the Duma laws for some time now:

    Hello guest!

 

But yeah, other then that, nearly anyone prior to the decision on the JWs were subjected to arrest and or branded as enticing hate and or extremism - sadly all part of the plan just so the Kremlin can continue to control and take power, Navalny being made a fool of despite him exposing the Kremlin and at this rate he will end up like Nemstov.

accused of extremism and being arrested applies to anyone, even children to be taken away for hours, days, perhaps months (could not find the original, again half these things are removed even the news articles):

 

For if Russia can get away with that, due to the child abuse situation in all faiths including JWs, others can do the same and get away with it sadly, an obvious instance would be comparing child abuse in the JW faith to the far dark and more sinister UK underground of child abuse ran by the people with big pockets in the United Kingdom.

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On 3/18/2018 at 8:27 AM, TrueTomHarley said:

How did there come to be a "pedophile list" in the first place? It is a consequence of internal church disciple so as to present to God a clean people that the Bible says he demands. EVERYONE should have done this and NOBODY did

Good point

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3 hours ago, Anna said:

Good point

Not only is it a good point, but I am beginning to be frustrated that it is not made more often, and I don't mean by people here. People of my age saw it all unfold, but people younger than me did not. When those who hate the Witness organization catch the ear of the inexperienced (or gullible) ones, they get some of them believing that the very purpose of the list is to lovingly nurture pedophiles and protect them from the elements so that they may grow strong. Is @JOHN BUTLER one of those so misled? Complicating matters is that he is a victim of child abuse himself  (and is quite brave to be so forthcoming) and if one is a victim of anything traumatic, it leaves a gut response that often overpowers any other consideration. 

John thinks I have been rough with him, and if I have, I will apologize in a heartbeat. It is nothing personal. Personally, perhaps I would like him a great deal. But he has chosen to be the face of a position that he represents in a very pugnacious manner. Sometimes faces are pounded in that way. It happens to me, too. It is nothing personal with him.

Imagine! Insisting as he has that the present GB members be disfellowshipped! And what bad thing did they do? At most, they have mis-stepped in a rescue mission where they saved more people than anyone else - what with a prevention record 10 times that of others.

Still, they could have pointed this out. You know, I have been in this forum too long. Whereas there are many here who will tell them what to do at the drop of a pin, I have scrupulously not gone there, as it is not my place and I do not have the lines of feedback that they do. I am beginning to reassess that wise approach in favor of shooting my mouth off, but not in a way that is most commonly done. 

In the abstract, these allegations of child sexual abuse sound bad - really bad - and so there are loyal ones who get antsy and start to urge that the GB grovel before the greater world (whose prevention accomplishments they far outstrip) and beg for forgiveness. My 'advise' would be to keep doing what they are doing, but "do it more fully." Continue with the headship and spiritual feeding program that they now arrange, which is absolutely stellar, and supplement it with what loyal ones need to know in order to push back at the maligners. No Witness should be in any doubt what was the purpose for any 'list' nor should they be in any doubt that it was in the main successful, with a success rate 10-fold,  though it produced as a byproduct a few glitches in their reporting methods vs those of the less-successful world that opposers are seizing upon and trying to make the main event. They should not be able to do this, but they are in many instances.

Educate ones who need or want to know on the proactive purposes of any 'lists.' Educate them on the ten-fold success rate in prevention. Educate them on how anyone who was serious about keeping God's standards should have tracked their actual abuse rate so as to correct it, and nobody else did. They were all negligent. These are all things that the present organization could do, and in my opinion, they should. Allowing opposers to drive perception on this issue results in persons insensed that the Witness organization is not perfect!

Moreover (and this is simply floating an idea) what if those who had suffered abuse among the Witnesses were offered the same sort of support that hospital patients are with the hospital visitation services or even the HLCs? Maybe by extending their role into 'trauma teams' that help with any sort of trauma that our people get hit with. Populated with mature brothers and sisters of excellent listening skills, ones who have the reputation of empathy and who are not quickly put off by 'wild talk.' Imagine, if the organization that already has 90% less abuse victims due to its application of Bible principles took this additional proactive measure to assist 'carrying the burdens' of the victims it does have within its ranks. @JOHN BUTLER is not all wet in saying abuse victims can use added help. Having said that, there are many sorts of traumas wherein people can use help. It will be for someone else to figure what is a 'load' that all Christians must carry, and what is a 'burden' that each of us needs help with, and it is not always necessary or advisable to 'formalize' a basic Christian requirement, in this case, helping each other. Witness how people carry on here about formalizing the preaching work with 'goals' and 'pioneers.'

It is just floating an idea to be batted around by people with better input and in better position if they choose to. I can see potential challenges, not so much in its intent, but in its implementation. But if it helped some to heal and to not abandon spiritual pursuits while they were doing so, there might be a place for something along those lines. In various ways we come to the assistance of fellow Christians who are 'clobbered' such as with natural disaster relief teams. Is this another one?

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@Anna Well as far as I can tell the Governing Body were getting worried in 1997 about the amount of Child Abuse within the USA part of the JW Org. So the Governing Body sent out letters to all the Elders of congregations in the USA. One such letter instructed the Elders to send all reports / accusations about Child Abuse past and present, to Brooklyn HQ. It was to be an ongoing instruction right up to this day. Hence from 1997 to 2017 = 20 years worth of documents concerning Child Abuse within the JW Org USA.

Now the point is, why did the GB want all this info ? Was it as Tom says, to try to keep the Org clean, or, was it to be able to hide all the info in one place ? 

The next question is, Why didn't the Governing Body follow the instruction from God as written in Romans 13 v 1 through 7. That scripture starts off

13 Let every person be in subjection to the superior authorities, for there is no authority except by God; the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God.  Therefore, whoever opposes the authority has taken a stand against the arrangement of God; those who have taken a stand against it will bring judgment against themselves.

The California court, which surely represents the government, demanded the documents that the JW Org / GB had concerning Child Abuse within the JW Org USA. By opposing the court the Governing Body were in fact opposing God. The scripture proves that. 

Now here is a bit of interesting information which appears to be true, but take it as you will.  

    Hello guest!

May 1st, 1957. Watchtower.   Use Theocratic War Strategy 

"So in times of spiritual warfare it is proper to misdirect  the enemy by hiding the truth". This article also leads people into the way of thinking that telling lies is OK if you are doing it to protect the Organisation. 

And in my opinion that is what the GB think, and also practice today. 

 

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@TrueTomHarley A couple of points just to start with Tom. Firstly I've noticed that you cannot make a comment without adding my name to it in a twisted way. Secondly, you 'saw it all unfold' so I presume you knew all about the Child Abuse many years ago, which brings me to the point I've mentioned above about the GB being worried about it in 1997. So have you know n for 20 years Tom ? and done nothing about it... 

As for the way you've treated me. Do you really think it bothers me ? I'll tell you, I do not care if people on here hate me or love me. I am making things known. Just like someone in the ministry. And some will believe and others will scoff. 

Once again you misquote, I 'suggested' the GB are disfellowshipped for the sake of the JW Org. And what have they done wrong, you asked. Well I've noted at least one thing in my above comment. And it seems that the GB form 1957 have said it's OK for them to tell lies or misplace the truth. 

And first of all you have no idea how many people 'they have saved'. For one reason, the Elders decide what is important enough to carry forward and what isn't. So it is possible that many accusations have been 'lost' / hidden, deliberately destroyed. We will never know. That is one reason it's impossible to compare the Org with any other. Because you only have the GB's word as to the true quantity. This is where we will differ of course. You think they are the 'faithful and discreet slave', I think they have proved themselves no to be so. 

And you go back to your comparisons again, and i tell you that God is not impressed with any comparisons. Are you then trying to impress people? But surely it is more important to serve God. I will repeat for those that missed it before. GOD WANTS A CLEAN ORGANISATION. HE DOES NOT WANT ONE THAT IS ONLY SLIGHTLY BETTER THAN THE WORLD. 

Oh you do love your stupid percentage thing. It's so funny. Nearly every paragraph you use it. Back to my example then, if you want to keep repeating yourself then why shouldn't I.

The Nation of Israel went astray and started killing its own children. This is the truth. It burnt the children in the fire as offerings to false gods. So when God questioned them, did they say, "But God we didn't kill and burn as many children as the other nations did. We had a much lower percentage ". Now you see how stupid your percentages are. They have no relevance. 

And now i note that you are slyly introducing the idea that Child Abuse is part of the 'load' a Christian has to carry. Well I don't think it is.

And you are suggesting some sort of support maybe ? Um, before you can offer support to anyone you need to find them first. Wow, this is where we started i think. The only way to find the victims is to investigate the JW org. Why? Because it isn't until there is an investigation that people find it safe enough to come forward. Having been sexually abused, then thrown out of the Org for complaining about it, they are frightened to come forward alone, and they certainly don't get any support when the are shunned.

So it seems Tom may be backtracking. It seems he may see the need for these investigations Earthwide, to help the victims and to try to prevent further victims by changing policy, such as the two witness rule, so that victims can be heard. And we never know, Tom may one day even agree to the victims being able to go to the police without being shunned or disfellowshipped.

Now Tom, how about letting the brothers and sisters know what's happening so that they can be warned about any 'attack' on them whether verbally or physically whilst they are on the ministry or at the Hall.  

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Well as far as I can tell the Governing Body were getting worried in 1997 about the amount of Child Abuse within the USA part of the JW Org. So the Governing Body sent out letters to all the Elders of congregations in the USA. One such letter instructed the Elders to send all reports / accusations about Child Abuse past and present, to Brooklyn HQ. It was to be an ongoing instruction right up to this day. Hence from 1997 to 2017 = 20 years worth of documents concerning Child Abuse within the JW Org USA.

Now the point is, why did the GB want all this info ? Was it as Tom says, to try to keep the Org clean, or, was it to be able to hide all the info in one place ? 

In the 1990s Child Abuse had been on the rise in the US with most abusers tend to continue the trend of getting away with their crimes and it had increased within the realm of religion thus internal investigation by such groups. Data is usually collected if need be so it is kept in file, in some situations for some people, little information is all that is needed to be kept on file if necessary, others usually hold on to information for a temporary amount of time based on their system, however, if or if not such information exist and or had ceased,the victim of the abuse can and will have their say on the matter - as living proof to speak on what abuse they had suffered.

But it is no surprise anyone would be startled if it did happen to them, for the total number of cases of child abuse in the U.S. from 1990 to 2010 was surged to a ridiculous amount, the only difference from then and now is that we have better systems and networks so information can be brought forth quite easily, but anything before the 1990s tend to be somewhat of a stretch for people tend to be more reliant on the word of the victim should the abuser's location and or status be unknown and or if said abuse had perish -  died.

    Hello guest!

The other link is based on race, I mentioned race card before and by the majority in today's world, this has been proven to be true and fact:

    Hello guest!

Other: 

    Hello guest!

Perhaps as all religious heads go, they gather the information big and or small, or whatever they can get from the victim on the matter either to be used to root out abuse, to use said information to see how they can determine the signs of abuse and teach if this or that happens, what to do, and the like. In my case, all Unitarian denominations are informed to send any known information to either the heads of the church of church leaders of the faith, it is no different from others.

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

The next question is, Why didn't the Governing Body follow the instruction from God as written in Romans 13 v 1 through 7. That scripture starts off

I believe I mention this regarding Paul, and that God's law in the bible cannot be broken and or changed. Christians will, no matter the denominations and or faith, will be subjected to Civil Disobedience just as Paul was, and regarding what Peter had said - only should the law of the land conflict with worship of God, the Bible, Bible Principles, etc., hence the title of Romans 13Submission to Governing Authorities. It is 100% true all Christians must obey the law, but should the law try to hinder anything spiritual, you will most likely see a reaction.

Given that it was Paul who wrote the Epistles to the Romans, one can easily see what anything pertaining to government and or authorities points to with what took place in Paul's life and what Peter wrote, which mirrors that of what was done in the Hebrew Old Testament.

All in all, if the JWs technically submitted a Nazarite Vow in terms of following scripture, such a thing cannot be broken, or any Christians who is on the same boat.

As for Romans 13:1-7 is alludes to the following: Subjection to the authorities (1-7) paying of taxes (6, 7).

So it is unlikely they are ignoring scripture, if the group is deemed Bible Strict by the majority.

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Now here is a bit of interesting information which appears to be true, but take it as you will.  

    Hello guest!

May 1st, 1957. Watchtower.   Use Theocratic War Strategy 

Spiritual Warfare (the same thing as what the JWs call it, Theocratic Warfare/Strategy). It is a practice that is used by Evangelizing Christians regarding the preaching and teaching of the gospel, especially if met with opposition that will attempt to halt and or cease any following of Jesus' examples of teaching about God.

As defined (quote): Spiritual warfare is the Christian concept of fighting against the work of preternatural evil forces. It is based on the biblical verification and observance of evil spirits, or demons, which intervene in human affairs in various ways, for their own agendas. Various Christian groups have adopted practices to repel such forces, as based on their doctrine of Christian demonology. Prayer is a common form of spiritual warfare among Christians. Other practices may include exorcism, the laying on of hands, fasting, and anointing with oil.

Read here to understand about what it truly is: 

    Hello guest!

Other examples: 

    Hello guest!

Other then that, only few denominations outside of mainstream Christianity will go on this route should their faith be subjected to the laws of the land trying to alter God's Laws. That 1957 Watchtower you posted is no different from tactics and strategies used by Christians over the decades when met with some form of Bible breaking persecution, some who end up in prison and or is killed by those who are not of God.

That the practice of which the Jehovah's Witnesses have done for years, Theocratic War Strategy, basically Spiritual Warfare, is that (quote): Jehovah's Witnesses believe they are engaged in a "spiritual, theocratic warfare" against false teachings and wicked spirit forces they say try to impede them in their preaching work. Where their religious beliefs have been in conflict with national laws or other authorities—particularly in countries where their work is banned—they have advocated the use of "theocratic war strategy" to protect their interests, by hiding the truth from God's "enemies",being evasive, or withholding truthful or incriminating information.The Watchtower told Witnesses: "It is proper to cover over our arrangements for the work that God commands us to do. If the wolfish foes draw wrong conclusions from our maneuvers to outwit them, no harm has been done to them by the harmless sheep, innocent in their motives as doves."

Plus it is no different in the case of several examples in the bible, one that is known by everyone, Ra'hab, a prostitute in Jericho who had assisted 2 spies that were sent by Joshua, the Son of Nun, to spy out the city. We all know how they passage played our and what Ra'hab's view of God the Father is, which was a positive on, and she hid the men and belittled the guards who were sent by the King to seek out the Israelite men after receiving word of them, and among the people who were interrogated was Ra'hab.

In Ephesians 6:13–18, the spiritual armor God gives us is spoken of here. Christians are to stand firm with the belt of truth, the breastplate of righteousness, the gospel of peace, the shield of faith, the helmet of salvation, the sword of the Spirit, and by praying in the Spirit.

These pieces of spiritual armor represent in spiritual warfare is to know the truth, believe the truth, and speak the truth as well as defend it and prevent anyone from preventing you of this truth. We are to take in the fact that we are declared righteous because of Christ’s sacrifice for us. We are to proclaim the gospel no matter how much resistance we face from opponents of the faith, as well as the la of the land that attempts to break scripture and or worship of God - resulting in Civil Disobedience.

We are not to waver in our faith, we are to keep trusting God’s promises no matter how strongly we are attacked, how hard we are hit, be it if injured and or killed, nothing or no one would stop a Christian from professing their faith, even if it is by the hands of authorities. Our ultimate defense is the assurance we have of our salvation, an assurance that no spiritual force and or men of the world can take away. Our offensive weapon is the Word of God (as some call it, the Word of God is our Excalibur Sword) not our own opinions and feelings. And we are to pray in the power and will of the Holy Spirit.

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

"So in times of spiritual warfare it is proper to misdirect  the enemy by hiding the truth". This article also leads people into the way of thinking that telling lies is OK if you are doing it to protect the Organisation. 

And in my opinion that is what the GB think, and also practice today. 

It didn't stop Christians today, it didn't stop Christians in the past, and it didn't stop those who believed in the one true God of Israel who has not changed and condemns the change of his Spoken Word or break anything pertaining of what his Son had done on earth.

But regarding that article, should, taking an example of that woman, should she have given herself up, it will not have ended well for her.

The key to successful spiritual warfare is finding the biblical balance and being in harmony with what is written in scripture. Paul instructs Christians to wage war against the sin in themselves (Romans 6 - Dead to Sin, Alive to God, Slaves to Righteousness) and warns us to oppose the schemes of the devil (Ephesians 6:10–18).

That being said, the account and or passage of Ra'hab can be found in Joshua 2:1-24, 6:1, 22-25, and Hebrews 11:31(other instances of spying found at Judges 1:22-26, 18:1-10, 14, 17, and 1 Samuel 26:4).

All in all, Ra'hab was declared righteous and is justified by Works which was indeed spiritual warfare in regards of defending the Israelite men from being captured and possibly execution by means of the King of Jericho and Ra'hab and her household would have also been killed if she had not done what she did.

other instances of Spiritual Warfare, for example, Jael, Deborah, Michal to name a few, David to Jonathan also.

In short, all Christians, specifically all outside of the mainstream Christianity, who are adhering to the Great Commission subject themselves to Spiritual Warfare, and since Jehovah's Witnesses are still Restorationist, it applies to them also regarding Spiritual Warfare and will continue for them until Jesus returns, as to anyone who is subjected to Spiritual Warfare and takes it seriously.

 

Christian Civil Disobedience regarding the Laws of the Land:

Quote

We believe the Scripture teaches that we are to submit to government even if that government does not function entirely (or even primarily) by biblical principles (Romans 13:1-7). That principle is explicit in Peter's message to servants (1 Peter 2:18-19), which directly follows his more general comments regarding government (1 Peter 2:13-17). And that epistle teaches the same thing over and over again in varied ways: Submit even if you suffer, because in doing so you identify with Christ and are blessed (cf. 1 Peter 2:21-243:1-24:12-145:9-10).

There are times when we must obey God rather than men, but we believe that we should disobey the authorities only if they command us to do something directly against God's law (e.g. Acts 5:29 and its surrounding context).

That is a fine distinction, but it is precisely where the issue lies. If we say that Christians are only required to obey their government when it is functioning by scriptural principles, we then nullify the teaching of Romans 13:1-7 and 1 Peter 2:13-17 in just about any age of history-especially the time during which those passages were written! The Roman government was as corrupt and godless as any in history, and yet Paul and Peter told Christians to "live in subjection," "submit to every ordinance," and "honor the king."

So we believe that civil disobedience is justified only when government compels us to sin, or when there is no legal recourse for fighting injustice. The reason we draw the line there is simply because all the scriptural examples of civil disobedience fall squarely into those two situations. Any other kind of activism has no precedent in the Word of God and violates the spirit of Romans 13 and 1 Peter 2.

If you look this up regarding Christians and Law, you will see nearly the same thing for no Christian will cherry pick and break Religious Law in favor of Man's Law, there is always and will be a line that is drawn.

The only option you have is to work with the rules the group is following, you can't force them or entice them to change or alter what is written, regarding child abuse, it applies also and it makes sense to work with what they know and work with what they follow in terms of rules and regulations backed by scripture and religious procedures in all faiths that allows internal investigation to begin with.

The very reason stuff like this is known will not stop someone from joining the Jehovah's Witnesses or any group for that matter, people will continue to convert to JWs, people will continue to convert to Islam,people will continue to convert to Judaism, people will continue to convert to Catholicism, etc. In the end God knows who his people are be in in the organization or not, and he will not tolerate the actions of bad people or those contributing to infighting and anything such as conspiracy against his own Word.

And again, you can be a JW or not, there is a strict reason and a biblical one as to why some Christians do not talk of JWs as such and maintain neutrality, just as I am doing and thousands of others.

An example I will give, is that even Muslims know who JWs are, even though they do not agree with them on some Jesus' death and resurrection, and they tend to not mess around with JWs at all, instead, Muslims are always attacking Trinitarian doctrine in the UK's Speaker's Corner, which was talked about in the  Christian world of UK and the US, as the false doctrine being exposed by another faction of believers being the Muslims an instance would be on how on numerous occasions an anti-jw, anti-muslim, anti-unitarian, kjv-onlyist that goes by the name Bob The Builder is often defeated by such persons and has made a channel of his own to bash everyone and everything at Hyde Park.

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For crying out loud, John, I was extending an olive branch. it is not the first time I have done it. Each time you hurl it back in my face.

I will just pick one item from you previous post:

1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

So it is possible that many accusations have been 'lost' / hidden, deliberately destroyed. We will never know. 

This is so petulantly infantile that it is hard to countenance. Haul in the Presbyterians as well. Do they have 1 abuser per thousand? Or 999?

"We will never know."

If we cannot trust the Witness records, neither can we trust the Presbyterian records. You just don't like the former. It is no more complicated then that.

However, with Presbyterian records, there is added reason not to trust them. They don't have any! What - they would have us believe that no Presbyterian has ever molested a child? Haul them all in here! Put the screws to them!

"Raise your eyes to the heavens and count the stars. They are all populated by perverts. Pray that Elon Musk find success in his mission so that we can go up there and punish the residents among them if we find any are Jehovah's Witnesses.."

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Is @JOHN BUTLER one of those so misled?  I was extending an olive branch. Really. You have a funny way of doing it. Very slyly suggesting that I'm 'misled'. 

Reminds me of the Serpent talking to E ve  "So it said to the woman: “Did God really say that you must not eat from every tree of the garden?” "

It stood out a mile in my eyes, but i did think it was kind of funny. However I'm also thinking that you and SM are being used very well by the devil on here , so i will not bother with you any more... I will look at other topics here and hope you are not on them. :) 

I've told you before, I'm only interested in the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses, and, the Watchtower Society. Why ? Because I was part of them and would be again if they get 'sorted out' by God through Jesus Christ..So you and SM carry on your stupid percentage thing and comparison thing, which only serves the devil's purposes.

There are reports from an ex-elder (in Wales i believe) that saw a letter to the Elders, telling them to destroy documents concerning Child Abuse. A. I don't know why he is an ex-elder. B. I don't know if its true or not. But it could well be true if what I've mentioned above and what SM has said about 'spiritual warfare' / telling lies / destroying evidence. 

I suppose you will go on believing that the GB are the 'faithful slave' and i will go on believing that they are not.

i am disappointed in brothers in my ex-congregation for not keeping contact with me. But that just shows how frightened the brothers are of being shunned or disfellowshipped themselves. Dictatorship by the GB and the Elders. Frightened brothers and sisters. Wow how to run an organisation of love and service to God.... I don't think so.

As for sticking completely to scripture. I'll leave you with this. Jesus said at Matthew 12 v9 onward.

 After departing from that place, he went into their synagogue, 10  and look! there was a man with a withered hand! So they asked him, “Is it lawful to cure on the Sabbath?” so that they might accuse him.11  He said to them: “If you have one sheep and that sheep falls into a pit on the Sabbath, is there a man among you who will not grab hold of it and lift it out?

    Hello guest!
12  How much more valuable is a man than a sheep! So it is lawful to do a fine thing on the Sabbath.” 

There are times when it is right to break the rules. 

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16 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Is @JOHN BUTLER one of those so misled?  I was extending an olive branch. Really. You have a funny way of doing it. Very slyly suggesting that I'm 'misled'. 

 

What - are you nuts? You take offense that I suggest you were misled? Clearly you say the same of me. In fact for the most part, you go well beyond misled. You paint me as a liar.

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29 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

@TrueTomHarley I'll go further and repeat, i think you are a servant of the devil. Protecting pedophiles within the JW org.  Hating anyone that dares to question the GB. Twisting every comment made by genuine people on here. Good bye Tom. 

If someone posts something that is true it does not automatically or allude to him or her being a servant of the Devil - claims and assumptions of someone results in 11 verses in this regard that targets the accuser of the accused, for if you respect God's word you have to be careful on that.

No one is questioning anyone for if the JWs have a set of rules and religious laws that they follow, there is a how and why as to they adhere to such which nearly equals to Nazareth Vow and breaking of such when a conclusion has not been met to free one of this vow, disqualifies them of God's favor, a position a JW or any Christian do not want to be in. We know Paul is no lair and what he affirms is true and fact, therefore it has to be respected at all times.

That being said, it has already been spoken about child abuse happening to everyone, including the Jehovah's Witnesses, to say they hide pedophiles when people outside of the faith know of what is going on is a bit misleading, so to speak, not to mention people are indeed paying attention to the highs and lows that changes over time regarding child abuse, violence and the like.

As for those verses, I will not post them here for they are that impactful when it comes to accusing someone of something when he or she speaks truth - God's word is important and adhering to it at all cost should be of high importance to you.

All in all, the issue of child abuse, the statistics, the spread of child abuse, the actions of abusers, etc. is and will always be something that people will care about because the youth is affected and as a Christian, all of us know God's sees a person's heart.

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@Space Merchant People outside the faith know only because victims have now made it known, and hence the investigations Earthwide. But the names of the pedophiles and their locations are not known, not even to the brothers and sisters that have children in the congregations. Hence i say prdophiles are being protected and hidden. And brothers and sisters that serve the Org do not look into these things, so they do not know. Nor do they know of the danger they may face on the ministry or at the hall, because the Elders do not make any of this known. If i had spoken about it in the Kingdom Hall when I was a brother,  I would have been disfellowshipped for 'causing a division in the congregation'... This is how they keep things quiet, because brothers and sisters are frightened to talk about anything...  You have to be there in person to fully understand how frightened the congregation members are of the Elders. There are so many things that you just cannot talk about. And the meetings are fully controlled. the Watchtower Study is controlled, so that brothers and sisters only answer the question put in the paragraphs. And no one is allowed to ask question, it's just parrot fashion, read a paragraph then give correct answers. Then move on, next paragraph.... 

Jesus himself was very blunt and to the point when he noted those that were trying to twist things and use lies and false ideas. Sometimes there is no other way, you just have to tell someone that you can see 'where they are coming from'. 

JW's Governing Body make up the rules and change them when it suits, by misusing scriptures. Elders in turn act like robotic servants of the Governing Body. There is no love shown, no empathy. This has been made so clear by the victims of Child Abuse Earthwide and by people that have been shunned for no good reason. And now i fall into the latter catagory. Shunned by brothers and sisters, probably because they think i was disfellowshipped, as they don't tell people when they say ' John Butler is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses'. Members of the congregation have no idea if i was disfellowshipped or if I left of my own choice. Though i am very disappointed by those i told prior to leaving, that they too should shun me. But once again fear of man, fear of the elders, fear of 'getting into trouble' if they talk to me.. It's very sad.

Doing anything on the Sabbath was wrong according to the Mosaic Law and punishable, but Jesus said there were times when doing good would override that Law. But the JW Governing Body do not seem to recognise the principle behind that, hence they show no mercy or love.

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2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

This is how they keep things quiet, because brothers and sisters are frightened to talk about anything...  You have to be there in person to fully understand how frightened the congregation members are of the Elders. There are so many things that you just cannot talk about. And the meetings are fully controlled. the Watchtower Study is controlled, so that brothers and sisters only answer the question put in the paragraphs. And no one is allowed to ask question, it's just parrot fashion, read a paragraph then give correct answers. Then move on, next paragraph.... 

John, I think you are in some danger of losing it. Take some time off. Seriously. I am not out to get you. I have just  pushed back at some of your charges.

You initially represented yourself as about to embark on a quest to find just what was the truth, or something to that effect - I forget the exact wording. The way you have conducted yourself here would indicate you were never in the slightest doubt of it. Go off on your quest if you are going to.

Sit silently in the Hall if it helps you in any way, but it sounds to me like you have absolutely writen that option off and I do not know how you can take umbridge at "so and so is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses." Are you? Sounds like a good call, to me. 

Either make your peace with JWs are they are represented on move on. Don't stay here, at least not for now. You are working yourself into a lather.

 

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2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

People outside the faith know only because victims have now made it known, and hence the investigations Earthwide. But the names of the pedophiles and their locations are not known, not even to the brothers and sisters that have children in the congregations. Hence i say prdophiles are being protected and hidden. And brothers and sisters that serve the Org do not look into these things, so they do not know. Nor do they know of the danger they may face on the ministry or at the hall, because the Elders do not make any of this known. If i had spoken about it in the Kingdom Hall when I was a brother,  I would have been disfellowshipped for 'causing a division in the congregation'... This is how they keep things quiet, because brothers and sisters are frightened to talk about anything...  You have to be there in person to fully understand how frightened the congregation members are of the Elders. There are so many things that you just cannot talk about. And the meetings are fully controlled. the Watchtower Study is controlled, so that brothers and sisters only answer the question put in the paragraphs. And no one is allowed to ask question, it's just parrot fashion, read a paragraph then give correct answers. Then move on, next paragraph.... 

No, people outside the faith do know and will always know. Child Abuse isn't some mysterious thing that just happens to be a shock, a surprise that just happens to be taking place in religion, for this has been going on since the days of our 3rd to 4th century church fathers into the 14th and 15th century to now, and Child Abuse is going to continue until the conclusion of the end times and tribulations. And I already made mention of Child Abuse among the Jehovah's Witnesses as well as areas in the world where it does not occur and or rarely does happen within the faith, a few posts ago I said it and I will not repeat myself, in addition to that, Jehovah's Witness youth tend to be subjected to kidnapping and or beheading because of their faith and they'll always gun for the young ones as potential targets, but never has anyone speak of this, if they have it is rare, but Child Abuse tends to happen in the US, the UK and parts of the EU, little to no child abuse takes place in areas like South Korea and or Japan because of an ancient Asian Laws coupled with modern day laws and regulations, I can go on about the Middle East and or the Congo, etc, but it has already been said - for if the Child Abuse among them is indeed earthwide as you claim, the areas I mentioned before would have been affected also to a great deal and will be high, Child Abuse is all over the globe yes, but among groups and other institutions it tends to happen in a few places in the world and done so by specific persons be it a pedophile, a violent person or a trafficker and as I said, child can abuse another child too, which is indeed a real and sad thing. But even with that information, even JW opponents or those that talk ill of the faith attack non-JWs of the facts.

No, pedophiles are not being protected, they're only protected if said religious group is part of the underground world and affiliates themselves with people who can clean up traces, empty out the cookie jar if you will, even if it means taking out the victim and or witnesses for good (murder), which was the case in Lithuania's child abuse controversy that lead to several deaths and a suicide. Jehovah's Witnesses do look into Child Abuse issues for if they speak on the matter and put it in their articles then they'll know, perhaps not all of them, but those who are use to reading news online, and even if they speak their peace, they are attacked relentlessly, even non-JWs who know the laws of the land are also attacked, for JW opponents tend to keep everything one sided and will say pedophilia is hidden when an obvious simpleton can figure out Child Abuse is global and not subjected to a single group, and no one will side with those that want to "kill a religion" just to have it their way. Men and Women across the global are intelligent and smart, and as I said it before, they are smart enough to know how to deal with and view Child Abuse happening all over the place, even inside religions. I doubt you would be excommunicated for speaking about it. The only reason why not many are comfortable about speaking of Child Abuse is address in the a great multitude of PSA for Child Abuse (it is not a comfortable subject to just randomly talk about it to a bunch of people out of the blue), it is not about causing division, it is about being smart when to talk about and when to speak your mind about. If you wanted to get your message across, you could have started off a conversation with one or two people, then get into the subject of Child Abuse right then and there if it is raised, for if an African JW church can speak on these issues no problem or a Hispanic one by doing it the right way, so can you. In today's society, you have to be wise of your words to others and when to use such words and or expressing an issue or a problem to others. Other then that, I said this because I deal with children also who have some issues and adult friends of those children, they will not like talking about Child Abuse unless you are cool with them or sit down and speak with them and possibly when the subject is brought up, then you speak of the matter.

And no, JWs are not afraid to talk about anything (opponents tend to target and confront newbie/novice JWs of the faith, but back down when one knows their bible well), but they recognize when it is a smart way to speak of a subject and when, there are really tough JWs to talk to, one of them being The Z man who is like a zen master in scripture and theology who occasionally pops up on the Soulja of God and Jason A channels and is a contributor to helping out in child kidnappings. I had visited a lot of other religious groups within the past decade and even the JW ones, I went to their church, an African one, Swahili to be specific, I went to a Spanish one, a Caribbean one, Korean and even English, none of them are scare nor is anyone of them in fear - for if they have a fear, they fear God, as it is written to be God fearing as the bible says and they do ask question, of course interfaith based questions will not sit well with them, for regardless of religion, interfaith questions tend to get you kicked out for it is a sign you have chosen a different faith, went on on your own or just simply do not want to attend the church anymore, an example is like saying you accept Christ and consider Jesus God, obviously that will not sit well with JWs.

In the Unitarian faith if you speak of Jesus as God or talk about Trinity Doctrine, it will most definitely get you excommunicated, or if bringing up questions that goes against what is true.

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Jesus himself was very blunt and to the point when he noted those that were trying to twist things and use lies and false ideas. Sometimes there is no other way, you just have to tell someone that you can see 'where they are coming from'. 

He also wants us to respect, be mild and humble our fellow man. Tom never lied about anything for what he said about ARC and onward is indeed true, especially when he spoke of Internal Disciplinary methods of churches, which is pretty much internal investigation. He brought up prevention rates of child abuse, something people do care about as well as the issue, so thinking of him as a servant of the devil when the man has not uttered a lie in discussion with you, is lacking and shows you are not caring of any word he says - there is a bible verse for that for not listening to someone. In addition to that it is already seen as to where he is coming from, for this mentioning of solidifying facts is true, to be in denial of what is true only results in the opponent in the discussion butchering Christ's words and in turn, will use scripture for the wrong reasons and or a verse or two that is unrelated to what is being spoken.

For let's say if Tom was lying, for if he was in the wrong, real information would break down every pillar he builds in an instant to what he is pushing out in his posts - but in this case there was no fault on his part, no error or falsehood, therefore, a strong statement by calling him a servant of the devil has no foundation to hold itself.

The bible speaks of false accusations, all in all to repay such a reaction to a man who has not committed any wrong for speaking for what is true, is not something that pleases God, regardless of what the subject is about, for your resolve would have made sense if Tom was lying - which is not the case here.

That being said, be in harmony with the Christ and within God if someone is in the right.

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

JW's Governing Body make up the rules and change them when it suits, by misusing scriptures. Elders in turn act like robotic servants of the Governing Body. There is no love shown, no empathy. This has been made so clear by the victims of Child Abuse Earthwide and by people that have been shunned for no good reason. And now i fall into the latter catagory. Shunned by brothers and sisters, probably because they think i was disfellowshipped, as they don't tell people when they say ' John Butler is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses'. Members of the congregation have no idea if i was disfellowshipped or if I left of my own choice. Though i am very disappointed by those i told prior to leaving, that they too should shun me. But once again fear of man, fear of the elders, fear of 'getting into trouble' if they talk to me.. It's very sad.

Hard-pressed Bible Restorationist do not make up their own rules and or regulations, if they did change or misuse scripture, you need to give an example, because there is many facts, resources and information that proves otherwise when regarding any Christian faith that derive from that Restorationist Era, this includes JWs. Elders and Deacons tend to be the boring folk, but what is embedded in them is their faith, and their love of God and the teachings, as well as following the example of Jesus, one of these examples is expressing qualities of both God the Father and Jesus Christ, which early Christians practice to life by as a Christian lifestyle and today only a few Christian minorities practice this, JWs are among the Christian minorities outside of the mainstream. Church leaders of the faith act as Shepherds to a Flock, something of which Jesus stated in John 10:16: And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd (also see Ezekiel 34:23, 37:24, Luke 12:32 and 1 Peter 5:4). For a Shepherd who tends to his flock will show love to it, in this case, it applies to Christians of a professed faith too. An example I can give is I had seen JWs and among all faiths I visited at some point, the Swahili one is among many that expressed a great deal of love to one another because they are not only bind by faith, but by their culture, no elder and or churchgoer acted as robots compared to the American  Mega Church I had gone to in the past. That being said, each church is different by their culture and their chemistry with one another, at times it varies, but it is far more evident in the non-american churches, English ones tend to be the common folk and average in their love for one another while others tend to go above and beyond.

Again, Child Abuse among the group is focused in the US, the UK and some EU countries and or EU jointed ones, there was no issue with Arabian JWs, none with Asian ones, or the Congo ones, etc. For if the problem was indeed Earthwide, all those areas would have been affected, but instead we have political factions, kidnappers, extremist who target the faith for they cannot and will not fight back. Victims of JW child abuse will speak up, and have done so, but like every other religion, it won't stop newcomers to the faith, for what they tend to be more focused on is the belief and the teaching of scripture. As for Shunning, even JW opponents stated that it is indeed biblical, but they also add that they can choose to ignore that scripture, the same is said about mainstream Christians who cherry pick the Scriptures, it is one of the reasons why it is said JWs tend to follow the bible with a great deal of strictness.

They do tell their members, and they tell them if they are excommunicated, they also say if you are inactive or a drifter, as they say. But seeing as how you represent in opposition to the faith despite not hating them, it is enough for them to accept it as excommunication. You are lucky that JWs do not practice He'rem, which is far worse.

And again, if is not men they fear. For if you want shunning, excommunication and or anything pertaining to in-faith and interfaith religious laws being abolish, you can do what some mainstream Christians have done for some time now, pointing to Paul as an Antichrist in his teachings to Christians. There are JWs who have been excommunicated but not shun because they do not bash the faith of which they were apart of, nor reaching the position of Apostasy. That being said, it won't stop them from allowing you to come in and sit in their meetings, while He'rem, you are forced out, physical if need be.

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Doing anything on the Sabbath was wrong according to the Mosaic Law and punishable, but Jesus said there were times when doing good would override that Law. But the JW Governing Body do not seem to recognise the principle behind that, hence they show no mercy or love.

Man's Law cannot override God's Law, something of which the JWs will attempt to prevent from happening to them and has prove to be a challenge because of Child Abuse, again, Civil Disobedience, which was a practice by Paul and a number of others in both the Old and New Testament. I already made mention of several women of the Bible, as well as the mentioning King David and his pal, Jonathan.

The sad truth is if a law, rule and or policy is bible based, attempting to  change it and or ignore it goes against what God said, and it goes against what Jesus said, I believe I mentioned this already too.

As for picking and using what fits their doctrine, they are basically in the right - for should they abolish any rule they have or ignore it or just brush over it, they break scripture, in a sense, it is like breaking what is written and continue to attempt to profess your faith as a Christian- which God can clearly see such persons are kidding themselves.

In the end, everyone knows about the child abuse going on in the JW church, but, they will not be on the same warpath you are on against JWs or their leaders, and there has been prove of that, especially by those who understand the rules the JWs are under on the religious side of things, an they also understand the laws of a state and or country, and how things are handled and will have to fight against JW opponents if they have to, which has been happening for sometime now, and in regards to Russia, any JW opposition made there, a rebellion of people will defend JWs, even non-orthodoxy Christians will defend them.

You do not have to agree with JWs, but you should be wise enough to note be a messenger of their opponents who will want to destroy Christianity just to take down JWs, for it has been talked about ever since Christianity is declining. As for me, I know Child Abuse, I know how kids feel, but never I would subjected myself to the path you are on because I am a man of God and I know what is going on and I know how to response to a situation, and again, smarter ways to deal with Child Abuse, which is pure fact that most in the US or the UK do not even consider at times expect the very persons who fight against Child Abuse the problem not people affected by it.

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14 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I have changed the remarks I left just prior to Polly.

Ohhhh ... I am sorry I missed them!

Sometimes from the back of the Hall I hear mechanical clicking sounds after the paragraphs are read,  and again and again, three successive people giving the same answers, straight from the article .... and hear someone despondently whispering ...

I gotta oil this thing........

. shoot me, someone please shoot me....

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@TrueTomHarley Well I know what i know from my experience in the Org. SM seems to have no  idea, because he generalises about all religions and even compares it to the 'rest of the world'. You though, you have knowledge of the JW Org , so you can admit or deny my claims concerning the Org.

SM wanted an example of the GB changing meaning of scripture, but you Tom will know of some I'm sure. 1. the meaning of the scripture. 'This generation will not pass away' .. 2. the meaning of the scripture concerning 'the Superior Authorities'.  That is just two from memory.

Now, will you admit that some Elders are so upset with the Org that they are actually going against the Org and they are putting documents / letters up online for the public to read. I would compare this to the people of the Nation of Israel who were born Jews, but they chose to turn against the Jewish way of life and become Christians. They did not forsake God did they ? They allowed their God given conscience to guide them in the right direction. So it is for me, I haven't forsaken God or Jesus Christ, but in this day and age it's difficult to know the right direction. 

Now coming back to, what i know I know.  Before I left the Org, I have been in a brother's house talking about things and he has said to me, 'This is between you and me. Don't tell the elders'. Brothers and sisters are honestly frightened of the Elders. Bros and sis are frightened of being disfellowshipped because it is their whole life, their only friends, it's all they have in life. And when a person gets disfellowshipped they are left with nothing. i think that is disgusting. That people should be so frightened of men, because of the 'power' those men hold over people. But you Tom seem to love it. 

And I think you know what I'm saying about the 'so and so is no longer a Jehovah's Witness' thing. it is a way of telling the whole congregation not to talk to that one. Whereas the Bible gives examples / reasons for the ones that should be avoided. By not saying a person  'left the Org of their own choice' , or 'was disfellowshipped', the GB are deliberately telling the congregation not to talk to anyone that has left the Organisation. However, I don't think that is what the scripture means. Hence i say misuse of scripture.

Anyway the sun is shining here and i will go into our garden and give thanks to God for His creation. I hope you all have a pleasant day. i wish you no harm. As i keep saying, we are all individuals and all have our own opinions. So be it. Only time will tell right from wrong.  

 

 

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4 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Ohhhh ... I am sorry I missed them!

 

It was not anywhere near so biting as you imagine. But I took back even that because it appeared he was on the verge of a breakdown.

I mean, c'mon! He called me a servant of the devil. I am expected to instantly coo love back to him?

And he appears to have caught the spirit of the good advice I finally did give (not that it was in direct response) when he said:

Anyway the sun is shining here and i will go into our garden and give thanks to God for His creation. I hope you all have a pleasant day. i wish you no harm. As i keep saying, we are all individuals and all have our own opinions. So be it. Only time will tell right from wrong.  

Good. He needs time to cool down. So do I, perhaps. I don't disagree with those final words at all. Maybe he is even on to something. Because the sun sure isn't shining here as I look out my window.

 

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@TrueTomHarley Matthew 16 v 22 & 23.  At this Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him, saying: “Be kind to yourself, Lord; you will not have this happen to you at all.”

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 23  But turning his back, he said to Peter: “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me, because you think, not God’s thoughts, but those of men.”

What was Jesus calling Peter here ?  Anyone can be a servant of the devil even if they have the right intentions as it seemed Peter did here. The devil will use anyone or anything for his purpose. So don't take it so personally. 

Nice that you think I'm on the verge of a breakdown though :) ... Um, I think, ( though i don't know where to find the information right now  ), that the Governing Body have said, that some of the people that say they are anointed are possibly suffering from mental health issues. You see, you do have things in common with them. If you disagree with someone, you make it look as if the one you disagree with is unstable, copying the GB and also the Elders in some cases... Are you an Elder ? 

And yes I've cooled down as you put it. I've had lunch , taken my son to his work, been shopping for food and taken one of my vehicles to the garage for it's MOT test. (That is the UK law for older vehicles to have a safety test every year). You see, I'm quite a normal family man.

And Tom, I'm not even asking you to like me. I certainly don't expect you to 'coo love back to me'. I'm enjoying the difference of opinion we have, but still i mean you no harm. I've so often said, let's be practical not emotional.... 

And James, I find you so funny. I have no idea where you are coming from. I don't understand your comments as in I don't know what you are trying to convey to us.

I've just found this so thought i would add it here :-

"WHAT ABOUT THE NUMBER OF THOSE PARTAKING AT THE MEMORIAL? In recent years, we have seen an increase in the number of those partaking at the Memorial of Christ’s death. That trend contrasts with the decrease in the number of partakers that we saw for many decades. Should this increase trouble us? No. Let us consider some key factors to keep in mind. “Jehovah knows those who belong to him.” (2 Tim. 2:19) Those taking the count at the Memorial cannot judge who truly have the heavenly hope. The number of partakers includes those who mistakenly think that they are anointed. Some who at one point started to partake of the emblems later stopped. Others may have mental or emotional problems that lead them to believe that they will rule with Christ in heaven. Therefore, the number of partakers does not accurately indicate the number of anointed ones left on earth." Watchtower 2016 Jan study ed 
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 & 
    Hello guest!
"Memorial partakers. This is the number of baptized individuals who partake of the emblems at the Memorial worldwide. Does this total represent the number of anointed ones on earth? Not necessarily. A number of factors — including past religious beliefs or even mental or emotional imbalance — might cause some to assume mistakenly that they have the heavenly calling. We thus have no way of knowing the exact number of anointed ones on earth; nor do we need to know." Watchtower 2011 Aug 15 p.22
Just in case you think i make it all up.

 

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1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

And Tom, I'm not even asking you to like me

John, if I ever was to find myself on the outside looking in due to what I thought was primarily 'politics', I would continue to come to meetings, and take in the instruction that is to found nowhere else, while I waited for the bruhaha to pass. Seriously. There is no reason you cannot.

I have thought about it. Here I am on a site where villains traverse freely and there is abundant counsel not to hang out with them. It is counsel, not law, and I do not consider myself 'associating' with them, but things can be misunderstood and every so often some 'zealous-for-no-rivalry' person overacts. I don't think it is very likely at all, but it is not impossible.

I really would keep attending, so long as I felt Jehovah's Witnesses were right. I would figure that I was just termporarily on the outs with them, it will blow over eventually, and that i can always request reinstatement from time to time. Eventually one would stick. In the meantime, I would not insist that they 'come around.'  I would be open to the possibility that I might have contributed to the mess.

To be sure, I would miss the association, and I would probably not attend so constantly as I do now, which is almost without miss, but I would keep coming to the only place I know of where the Bible is discussed accurately. Though the association might be closed off, the spiritual food would remain undiminished.

I know of one person who, while disfellowshipped, began attending meetings. Elders soon spoke with her, and she had  no idea that she could be reinstated. She just figured the chasm would stay open till Armagedon but in the meantime she would go where she knew there was accurate knowledge.

Why did she have no idea? Who knows? Such times are emotional. Maybe elders did not make it sufficiently clear. She is back now. Until recently, elders made a real effort to personally contact each DF one in their territory at least once a year. That's better 'service' than the typical non-Witness gets. Don't tell me they are not interested in people.

John, you are at a crossroads. Don't screw it up, becasue it will affect your family more than you. Don't regard it as a pissing contest between you and the GB. Tell your kids: 'yeah, I got in a tiff with the brothers, but it will smooth out in time,' If you are truly convinced that the GB should be removed, be like David, who knew he was to be king, but in the meantime would not lay a hand on 'Jehovah's annointed' and rebuked those who tried to make him go there.

 

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29 minutes ago, AllenSmith said:

Therefore, WHO really do you need to thank for such division, here, if NOT those that started this forum over 5 years ago?

Don't look at me. I was nowhere close.    (who?)

Oh. Wait. I just reread and went on to the 2nd portion. You know, @James Thomas Rook Jr. is right and I really do appreciate his observation, though I am not sure he made it for that reason. I do miss things.

I will say it is because my mind is a veritable hive of activity, grappling with 100 ideas at once while the average person can do but one.

He will say it is because I am dumb.

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TTH:

You are definitely NOT dumb, just terribly unfocused.

This is a common problem of highly intelligent people ..... I STRONGLY suspect that 20mg of Adderall, once a day would sharpen your focus so that you could cut steel with your vision. The "100 ideas at once" was the key that caused me to diagnose that.

Of course, I am not a Doctor, although I have seen some on TV.

Look up the symptoms of "Attention Deficit Disorder".

... and don't worry about becoming a "speed addict".  We are ALL, each and every one of us totally addicted to water.  If we do not have our "fix" every day, our system starts collapsing, we have severe withdrawal symptoms, and we will die, without water.

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45 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I STRONGLY suspect that 20mg of Adderall, once a day would sharpen your focus so that you could cut steel with your vision. The "100 ideas at once" was the key that caused me to diagnose that.

 

I appreciate this. I really do, and you are not that far off the mark. Unfortunately, I tend to distrust such things, as a result of observing, reading, and yes, even some personal experience. 

I am content that I can sleep sound at night, or would, if I did not have to rise and pee, a condition not uncommon at my age. Usually I fall right back to sleep. But occasionally I must check to see that they are behaving with reasonable decorum at the WorldNewMedia and that the Librarian has not fallen off the wagon again.

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1 hour ago, AllenSmith said:

That isn’t necessarily factual. Butler can be considered an agent of Satan’s Works. Matthew 13:38 It would be no different than those that go against Christ teachings, 2 Corinthians 11:15, especially those that cause strife and division within God’s people. Romans 16:17, Philippians 3:2

This is something that has alluded professed Christians here to think they can apply scripture on the one hand, and defy it in the other. 1 Corinthians 1:10-13

Just because the subject matter is an impassioned human condition, doesn’t absolve anyone from breaking God’s commands. Ephesians 2:1-3

Therefore, WHO really do you need to thank for such division, here, if NOT those that started this forum over 5 years ago? In order to sully the Watchtower with their personal views and complaints.

I do not believe John Butler is an agent and or servant of Satan, for I have truly seen people who are pawns of Satan and have challenged them before, nor do I believe Witness is either - for these two are quite far from it and real servants of Satan are very obvious, an example would be the Cemetery incident with Christians vs Satanist  a Minnesota, the abortion protesting, and the Black Mass temples to mock Christians. However, both of them are simply on the wrong path and going about the situation the wrong way, one of them even has accepted and or given himself up to the likes of conspiracy while at the same time believes that the Father and the Son would want that.

Sadly, a good man or a good woman may think they are in the right, but the tragedy is, they do not see what is going on behind the blindfold they have on their faces and others who see them will only see that their works is not good and not smart. 

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7 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

SM wanted an example of the GB changing meaning of scripture, but you Tom will know of some I'm sure. 1. the meaning of the scripture. 'This generation will not pass away' .. 2. the meaning of the scripture concerning 'the Superior Authorities'.  That is just two from memory.

Are you sure about that regarding the generating passing away being incorrect on their part? There are many, many people who understands that including the position and or condition of co-ruling persons chosen as priests and or selected for priesthood. JWs refer to these persons as Anointed ones, other Christians refer to this group as those chosen for Priesthood, the Chosen Ones to rule with Christ, or simply persons selected from Tribes, etc. The only group that is recognized for changing this generation thing slightly is the Black Israelites, and obviously for them, it will include a sole race and or tribe of people that are selected when the position of priesthood in the Messianic Kingdom is of those who are literally sacrificing themselves in Spirit in order to serve God no matter what.

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I've just found this so thought i would add it here :-

"WHAT ABOUT THE NUMBER OF THOSE PARTAKING AT THE MEMORIAL? In recent years, we have seen an increase in the number of those partaking at the Memorial of Christ’s death. That trend contrasts with the decrease in the number of partakers that we saw for many decades. Should this increase trouble us? No. Let us consider some key factors to keep in mind. “Jehovah knows those who belong to him.” (2 Tim. 2:19) Those taking the count at the Memorial cannot judge who truly have the heavenly hope. The number of partakers includes those who mistakenly think that they are anointed. Some who at one point started to partake of the emblems later stopped. Others may have mental or emotional problems that lead them to believe that they will rule with Christ in heaven. Therefore, the number of partakers does not accurately indicate the number of anointed ones left on earth." Watchtower 2016 Jan study ed 
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"Memorial partakers. This is the number of baptized individuals who partake of the emblems at the Memorial worldwide. Does this total represent the number of anointed ones on earth? Not necessarily. A number of factors — including past religious beliefs or even mental or emotional imbalance — might cause some to assume mistakenly that they have the heavenly calling. We thus have no way of knowing the exact number of anointed ones on earth; nor do we need to know." Watchtower 2011 Aug 15 p.22

With this information, one has to consider how the history of the Memorial/Passover in general memorial. For the most part, not all of them are identical, slightly different - in the end, regardless, the Passover has to be respected as well as anyone proven to be in a position of Priesthood, which is very very VERY important. And this is true about those curious of taking embalms or in other religions, taking of the chametz and the like, this is why in some events when there is a gathering - some who know of people who.

In the end, no mistakes can be made, no false calling of Priesthood can be made, no wrongdoing can be made because on a day like that one should not be fooling around for the Passover is no joke - people of today's society will go as far as to mock the event, even disrupt and or interrupting a Passover, such vile unrepentant persons and their accomplices will stand in front of the White Throne and be judged.

2 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

@TrueTomHarley Matthew 16 v 22 & 23.  At this Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him, saying: “Be kind to yourself, Lord; you will not have this happen to you at all.”

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 23  But turning his back, he said to Peter: “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me, because you think, not God’s thoughts, but those of men.”

What was Jesus calling Peter here ?  Anyone can be a servant of the devil even if they have the right intentions as it seemed Peter did here. The devil will use anyone or anything for his purpose. So don't take it so personally. 

You have to be more in depth when explaining that, for verses like that can make and easily blind a Christian when they do not understand it.

Jesus was not identifying Peter with Satan the Devil but was referring to him as a resister - meaning of the Hebrew expression "sa·tan". Jesus may have posed that Peter, by his action on this occasion, had allowed himself to be influenced by Satan - denial of Jesus.

Read it here: 

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As well as take a good look at the word "Stumbling (Stumbling Block), which in Greek is σκάνδαλον: 

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Secondary: 

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The Greek word skandalon (σκάνδαλον), translates to stumbling block, usually refer to also a trap, in addition to other words in the Strong's - and we all know what a trap is (also do not confuse the word for its verb counterpart, Skandalizo - σκανδαλίζω). By extension, it came to refer to any impediment that would cause one to fall down, in this case, to stumble (stumbling block). In a sense, it refers to an action that leads a one to follow a path that is improper, to stumble, in this case, to fall into sin. the verb counterpart roughly translates make/cause to stumble, and is often rendered as become and or becoming a snare; cause to sin.

8 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Now, will you admit that some Elders are so upset with the Org that they are actually going against the Org and they are putting documents / letters up online for the public to read. I would compare this to the people of the Nation of Israel who were born Jews, but they chose to turn against the Jewish way of life and become Christians. They did not forsake God did they ? They allowed their God given conscience to guide them in the right direction. So it is for me, I haven't forsaken God or Jesus Christ, but in this day and age it's difficult to know the right direction. 

The Jews were always Jews and yes they became Christians, but they never turned away from the laws they were born into, in a sense, there were good Jews and bad ones, for you have to remember, there were Jews that followed Jesus and adhere to his teachings about God. In Paul's against, some Christians were indeed against him to the point he had to excommunicate them for messing around in the temple and or the congregation.

But on about Jehovah's Witnesses, this is the case with all religions, for if someone does not like what a religion is doing in terms of how they operate, they will "leak" information of said religion in an attempt to sully them. This is on the grounds of an attempt of killing a faith and or denomination. At times, even with the so called leaked information, they mix it with conspiracy and when you give in to conspiracy and added falsehood to what is leak it will cause influence, and influence injuries and or gets people kill and a few close calls. Do not know if you are aware of the JW that was stabbed to death and the people of UK are blaming this hate crime those who influence it, as do most Hate Crimes in the United Kingdom originates off the information and words of those on the internet.

Such is not difficult, you are a Christian, yes? In this day and age nothing should be questioned and or marked as difficult if you have a lifestyle of a Christian based on scripture.

8 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Now coming back to, what i know I know.  Before I left the Org, I have been in a brother's house talking about things and he has said to me, 'This is between you and me. Don't tell the elders'. Brothers and sisters are honestly frightened of the Elders. Bros and sis are frightened of being disfellowshipped because it is their whole life, their only friends, it's all they have in life. And when a person gets disfellowshipped they are left with nothing. i think that is disgusting. That people should be so frightened of men, because of the 'power' those men hold over people. But you Tom seem to love it. 

No one likes to be excommunicated regardless of which faith they follow, then again, you taking the words of those who obviously do not like the faith. I can give several examples of a Muslim, of a Jew, and a lot of examples of a JW.

Since this is the case, this JW Christian was excommunicated 2 times, even when she is unable to speak to the members of the church, she attends anyways but at the same time was embarrassed of her actions, her first excommunications was due to her messing around with a guy that was a bit too close, and thus sexual relations happen and she was pregnant. She stated when there were gatherings of bible study, she sat in the back, knowing that her actions reap such a consequence, especially that of her family for since she was African, not Black African American, she was bounded by culture, and pregnancy with someone who is not well known to a family, in this case, the JW church will indeed cause shunning. Prior to her being part of the JW faith again, family and friends still supported her and came around when the girl was showing that she wants to come back and eventually she did, as for her child, she now attends the church with her mother.

The second excommunication was when the guy came around again, another pregnancy of course, which lead to her son being born. Her family, who now knew who this man was lectured the man, Jamaican guy, it is unclear of what took place after that when when seems later down the road she ends up marrying that man, and the girl herself was a JW again and this time having 2 children, who are JWs, as for the Jamaican man, ironically, this guy was a God fearing soul who didn't know much about JWs, ended up going to English JW church instead of an African one, of which he said to have gone to from time to time, mind you, this was about a decade ago, the excommunications took place a few years apart.

This event of which I speak of took place in Maryland, US at the time, I was living with a friend's family after they lost their relatives in Educador, and since we were close we remain with them just to help them get back on their feet again. That JW girl is a close friend of that family too. As for the girl herself, she is still a JW, goes to both African and English churches with her husband and 2 children, she didn't fear the elders, no, but she, like the others, want to be in the right with God the Father - for even the excommunicated will not stoop down into a warpath against a faith just because they had been kicked out, they still respect the people, the faith and God the Father and if they are in position to defend a group they are kicked out of, they will, hence why I mentioned the 3 individuals who took issue with JW opponents who appeared at Warwick and caused a church disruption in a Passaic County JW church, which didn't sit well with the community of Passaic and Orange County.

Other then that it was not the elders she feared, it was her position with God. Now let's say if this woman was in an American Church that didn't really teach about God, her actions would openly be accepted no matter what without some form of punishment, but obviously they would cause her family to be against the church due to African culture and way of life, which will cause the church to condemn the family of the girl as being servants of Satan, and with that in min you know how things would go for it seems mainstream Christians are open to about everything, even pro-abortion if they really want to gain some converts.

That being said, I know a great deal of JWs young and old, several of which who had been excommunicated and had return, others who didn't because they knew they had problems and wanted to get their head straighten out first, but they are not always shunned by their families because they do not speak ill of the faith and or of God, and ironically such persons do defend Jehovah's Witnesses even though they are excommunicated and they made their stories known but it is snuffed out and removed by JW opponents sadly.

In the end, it isn't not about fear of men who are as Shepherds, it is about one's position with God.

8 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

And I think you know what I'm saying about the 'so and so is no longer a Jehovah's Witness' thing. it is a way of telling the whole congregation not to talk to that one. Whereas the Bible gives examples / reasons for the ones that should be avoided. By not saying a person  'left the Org of their own choice' , or 'was disfellowshipped', the GB are deliberately telling the congregation not to talk to anyone that has left the Organisation. However, I don't think that is what the scripture means. Hence i say misuse of scripture.

Anyway the sun is shining here and i will go into our garden and give thanks to God for His creation. I hope you all have a pleasant day. i wish you no harm. As i keep saying, we are all individuals and all have our own opinions. So be it. Only time will tell right from wrong.  

Well it was quite evident in what you posted, you weren't a fan of nor was the other guy, who can somehow predict how others feel about church leaders right off the bat if he was not the type of guy to mingle well with JWs despite being one, unless you are leaving out details.

The bible speaks of those to avoid yes, and it also speaks of those who talk ill of the faith of a Christian and or accursed the teachings (false prophets). But you may need to be careful of contradicting what you say here, an example would be about the Watchtower article you posted about Theocratic War Strategy aka Spiritual Warfare, ignoring the fact that such Spiritual Warfare, which is a just thing to do when defending the faith and service to God, was done by even servants of the God of Israel in the past, including in ancient Bible days, for such actions have been done mostly by women who were indeed knowing of who the God of Israel is. For if we are to deem JWs are lairs, then it would be safe for someone to attack the bible and say David lied, Jonathan lied, Rahab lied, Jeal lied, etc. which again brings up Christian Civil Disobedience of which both Paul and Peter made mention of - or perhaps they too are lairs in what they had said and should be avoided.

Also there was no misuse of scripture in this regards, the JW church can say or not say if one leaves the faith, which is the case with any faith for that matter. At times, the person in question who wants to resign and says he or she wants to resign, the church leaders will make mention of so and so has left. At times, they let the people know several gatherings later when information of said person is frozen in case they return. Excommunications however, are usually stated the following gathering.

That being said, as a Christian, you have to take into account Paul's action and the question of punishment for disobedience in terms of church purity and holiness. The Paul one may be easy, but the second one is deemed far complex by some, this is why Atheist will utter this question to a Christian to throw them off balance: How can you have free will if it's punishment for disobedience? It is one of those Christians met to throw a not so biblical strict Christian off and cause them, in this sense, to stumble.

No worries, John, but in the end, opinion does not override scripture and what is true, just remember that.

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44 minutes ago, AllenSmith said:

That’s where we differ. I have been personally challenged by demonic entities, and I also know the subtle term for an agent. Being on the WRONG PATH! Does not excuse, make, to be Satan’s puppet or chew toy!

 

But it’s good you see the upside in people, even though the deception is very obvious! That’s the difference between what you are referring to Satan worshippers, cults versus being used by Satan. It's not that hard to see through people. Especially those calling themselves Christian.

 

Same, but there is a group in particular that cannot be challenge, reasoned with or given the gospel to because it is a high risk of death and or risk of being killed, and far too great for even the Jehovah's Witnesses (for any JW, any faith for that matter, of those areas speak of what this vile group is and warn people on being careful) - for people can and will be victim to such. The influence and or power is deemed literal and real, especially in parts of Africa, and areas in the Caribbean like Cuba, Haiti, Jamaica, Dominican Republic, etc, possibly surpassing even that of Satanist in the US. In addition to that, I remember speaking to a church youth group who had quite the frightening night in one area, and they deem themselves very lucky to be alive, but still haunted of what they had witnessed, for as they put it, on one side there is God and all that is good, and on the other side of the spectrum there is evil and darkness, which just happens to be literal for them that night.

Other groups (they are basically connected to each other by companies, banks and families, etc), slightly differ from the one mentioned above because literal outlandish things they cannot do, however, these groups and entities of Babylon the Great literally believe that if they please demons, they will be rewarded, if they please Satan the Devil, they will be given power and control, this includes child sacrifice, in the realm of Child Abuse that even Law and authorities will not attack so often because they play a role in this too even protect such persons and left the children for dead, there was a video in this regard but it was taken down about a year ago, for they played their cards by using companies and powerful men, and have spread into the inhabitants across the globe, which to some seem like crazy talk, but it is the reality.

That being said, Political Powers coupled with religious Evangelicals that support them (example, their support in Kurds who in turn handed Christians over to Terrorists) are real agents that are a threat to the good Christian people. But people tend to not pay attention to this stuff like I have and a few handful of others, an example would be with what just took place recently with the US and Saudi Arabia - which is indeed fact and true of the information that is present.

It is one of the reasons Witness was in error in his past post about CTR and or lacking understanding of what is true and what is false, for these groups today target JWs still, and other Christians outside of the mainstream and not be noticed at all. With that in mind, I advise people to be careful, for a blind person can easily be in subjection to what is unknown.

For these guys can't be be recognized at all by anyone unless you put two and two together with what is true.

Scary to those who are new to these things, vigilant is the one who is aware of what it is and what is to take place.

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Enough, this isn't about winning battles is it. People trying to show how 'intelligent' they are, or how knowledgeable they are. 

It will do me more harm than good trying to converse with you all. You all have your point of view and I have mine.

My concerns are not what 'men' think of JW Org, but what God thinks of it. I was hoping things would move forward more quickly but it seems I must have patience.  In probably 3 more months things will become more plain for everyone to see. And by the end of the year hopefully God will have sorted the Org out, if indeed He intend to use it at all. 

When i joined the Org i had just been 'released' from a Children's Home where i had suffered sexual, physical and emotional abuse. As a complete contrast the congregation I joined was so full of peace and what i thought was love. That is why i accepted it so easily. I was naive and looking for security in a wicked world... Now having grown up and with a wider outlook  I want to ask as many questions as fill my mind. And having spent time doing my own research I've found many things that I'm not happy with. 

So i will continue to pray to God daily, and to continue to search and research. And of course to continue to read God's word. 

I really would like to give warning of the massive storm i see coming and the danger it may cause to brothers and sisters, but no one will talk to me, so there is nothing i can do. i do ask my wife to warn others that danger may be close by, but she refuses to do so. So I'm quite helpless in the matter. If violence happens because of the knowledge that people gain then so be it. I could not talk of it when i was a brother, and now no one will listen. 

I will probably stay 'on the outside' for the rest of this year. Things will happen for the Org, and things will happen for me. i left in January, I'll see what i know and feel next January.  

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22 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Enough, this isn't about winning battles is it. People trying to show how 'intelligent' they are, or how knowledgeable they are. 

It will do me more harm than good trying to converse with you all. You all have your point of view and I have mine.

It isn't about winning a battle, it is about what is just and what is unjust, for what is right and what is wrong. Proving what is fact and true isn't shedding of one's intelligence, it is about making know what is already made public for everyone to look into the information themselves. As for me, and others who understand, it isn't a point a view or an opinion, especially with what I posted about Rahab and the history itself of the Passover and how churches have been operating since the day Jesus said the very words to Peter in Matthew 16:18, the schisms that left to denominational differences of those speaking of what is true an those speaking of what is not true.

26 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

My concerns are not what 'men' think of JW Org, but what God thinks of it. I was hoping things would move forward more quickly but it seems I must have patience.  In probably 3 more months things will become more plain for everyone to see. And by the end of the year hopefully God will have sorted the Org out, if indeed He intend to use it at all. 

God rally does not have to think if he can already see the hearts of men, especially with what is said the Hebrew Old Testament of those in the right and those in the wrong - Deuteronomy 30:15-20:

(15) “See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil. (16) If you obey the commandments of the Lord your God that I command you today, by loving the Lord your God, by walking in his ways, and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his rules, then you shall live and multiply, and the Lord your God will bless you in the land that you are entering to take possession of it. (17) But if your heart turns away, and you will not hear, but are drawn away to worship other gods and serve them, (18) I declare to you today, that you shall surely perish. You shall not live long in the land that you are going over the Jordan to enter and possess. (19) I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live, (20) loving the Lord your God, obeying his voice and holding fast to him, for he is your life and length of days, that you may dwell in the land that the Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.” 

With that in mind, know that in every group, even the Jehovah's Witnesses, there is good people who do their best to do what is right even if they tend to go about some things incorrectly since they are not properly experienced in somethings, and there is bad people among them who will abuse position, do bad things, trick and or deceive people, at times even purposely going into the faith to disrupt them, wrong them, etc.

Man can view things with his own eyes, but God does not need to think for he has already set in motion of what to expect regrading those with good hearts and those with bad hearts, he does not care about your sex, age, background, but your heart alone and your faith in him and his son by means of worship and your works.

I'll say it again, with that in mind, God knows who is and who is not for him, that being said there is a biblical reason a strong one as to why some Christians, knowing or not knowing of how JWs operate do not and will not subject themselves into attacking them, bashing them, spreading their faults and the like and mixing it with conspiracy -  for such persons know how God views holiness and purity, something that is highly important to God, and will not go on such a path as to which a majority is taking - be it against JWs, Anti-JWs or infighting contributors, for there is a price to pay in front of the White Throne of Yahweh/Jehovah God and the one he has appointed as his Messianic King.

So I will say it again, you are 100% in the right to be concern about Child Abuse in the Jehovah's Witnesses faith, but to sully them and bash them regardless if you have a disdain for them or not, heed the scripture so you do not end up like the many who has gone off path

Matthew 7:23 But I will reply, 'I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God's laws.' (see Luke 13:25-27).

In the end, they are still your brothers and sisters, this includes the leaders of the JWs also, who are indeed your brothers too and everyone else on the earth for we are all children of God (bene elohims of elohim). Those who do wrong, God does not have to think, for such persons will be judged and will not avoid such judgement, this includes wicked persons who will be raised out of Sheol to be judged in front of the White Throne, Revelation 20:11-15 Judgment Before the Great White Throne.

40 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

When i joined the Org i had just been 'released' from a Children's Home where i had suffered sexual, physical and emotional abuse. As a complete contrast the congregation I joined was so full of peace and what i thought was love. That is why i accepted it so easily. I was naive and looking for security in a wicked world... Now having grown up and with a wider outlook  I want to ask as many questions as fill my mind. And having spent time doing my own research I've found many things that I'm not happy with. 

Do not worry, for soon the day will come where all that wickedness that stem from Child Abuse, those affected by it, will be at peace when the day comes, this is why you have to and must endure no matter what. But as I said before, several times even, bad people will be dealt with no matter the faith, that being said, anyone Christian who takes the lifestyle of Christians by means of what is said in scripture do not shed false love, and I made mention of how some churches vary by means of nation and culture before, for one church who shares the same and or similar faith is more connected by means of culture and chemistry with others in their community when other churches somewhat weak and or lack in this love, but never, will one show false love - that being said, this goes for Restorationist, never have any of them, ever, shown false love, some may be weak, yes or lack, but never false - research history of Christianity if you still do not get that.

45 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

So i will continue to pray to God daily, and to continue to search and research. And of course to continue to read God's word. 

Prayer is continuous, friend and continue to do that for there isn't a time of day to pray and choosing a time to pray - when you pray you pray for it is a direct contact to God the Father, for in prayer the only way to the Father is through Jesus.

I also invite you to understand what Spiritual Warfare is in regards to the women of the bible as well as the situation with Jonathan protecting his friend, David, who is of Jesus' genealogy - Matthew Chapter 1.

47 minutes ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I really would like to give warning of the massive storm i see coming and the danger it may cause to brothers and sisters, but no one will talk to me, so there is nothing i can do. i do ask my wife to warn others that danger may be close by, but she refuses to do so. So I'm quite helpless in the matter. If violence happens because of the knowledge that people gain then so be it. I could not talk of it when i was a brother, and now no one will listen. 

The massive storm that is coming is not regarding Child Abuse, John. There is very very serious works that is in play here, something of which to you, to the Jehovah's Witnesses and to everyone else that is deemed outlandish and or surreal, but it seems not everyone is quite vigilant, however, endurance may be at play should things begin to tick by the second.

This works are being done by powerful people of the world, some powerful people who are against and will cause problems of a power struggle that will effect practically every breathing soul on earth, these men and women, children even, are members of Babylon the Great, and there is a substantial about of dark and actual true evidence of this.

That being said, in regards to Child Abuse, any young child who is somehow intertwined with such things, just know they are deemed impossible to help out because it would run risk to you, the victim and or anyone close to you.

An example would be, let's say this, the JW child abuse investigation in the UK, there is also another branch and or group outside the norm that also condones child abuse, and the very people who will tag JWs and everyone else on Child Abuse problems and accusations, will not bother with the unknown or underground groups who too are banking and enforcing child abuse.

Apparently the laws of men plays both sides.

As for violence, it has and will happen for these are among the things that is to take place prior to the conclusion of the end times, if you go back to my other responses to you, I have posted several information of said violence because of child abuse, and you should not be accepting violence because of one's knowing of some information for knowledge and information of something tends to beget a violent response to cause injury and or death - hate crimes and the like.

Other then that, again, Child Abuse is not unknown, nor is it a mystery, a shock or surprise and had magically hindered the inhabitants of the earth. Child Abuse in the days of Noah, to Moses, to now and onward and of course everyone knows this, whether you talk to them about it or not and to condemn a religion that is affected by Child Abuse only gives haters of God more fuel to mock and bash the scriptures and about Christianity.

1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I will probably stay 'on the outside' for the rest of this year. Things will happen for the Org, and things will happen for me. i left in January, I'll see what i know and feel next January.  

Seeing that the world has not ended and Jesus is nowhere to be found or God's Kingdom on the earth, Child Abuse, violence, famine, earthquakes and natural disasters, murder, rape, homosexuality, war, shadow governments and their actions, Anti-Christ, bad influence and associations, people seeking justice that can not be achieved by man, man driving other men into graves, sadness and crying, mourning, death, etc. will continue as it did in the past and will always continue until the appointed time, as a Christian it is not rocket science to know this solid truth and fact in regards to Scripture regarding the imperfections of the flesh, of man.

What should be your concern is enduring and be in the right for your actions because anyone at any given time can lose their faith and or salvation, hence why it is important to take into account of what Jude 3 says about maintaining faith being a hard fight.

All of us here agree with you on Child Abuse problems and the fact that it is happening to the Jehovah's Witnesses, but at the same time, it is necessary to be wise on the issue at hand and not be subjected to how others are doing things and who are in the wrong for going about a problem, by trying to literal destroy a faith just to stop Child Abuse - not realizing the Child Abuse is happening around the globe in religious and non-religious institutions.

In the end,it will not stop people from joining the JWs because what matters to them is what is to come in the future when Jesus Christ returns and will not stumble in this information of which the bible tells us.

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Man has an almost infinite capacity for "justified" cruelty.

As a Barbarian, I fully understand this.

It's often worse when he believes the torment inflicted on others is necessary  "discipline" , and in being the tool of that "discipline", the administrator somehow believes he finds favor with God ... and therefore has and keeps a clear conscience.

He often sleeps well at night, with a smile.

The Catholics used to burn people at the stake while alive as punishment for various heresys, as a means of purifying them ... certainly a "loving" thing to do, to save their souls.

Often unappreciated by the person being burned alive.

People have a tendency to justify all kinds of evil, in the name of righteousness.

Sometimes I am just glad that the Elders don't do Waterboarding, as a "loving" discipline.

.... and woe be the day some Liberal Snowflake comes from Washington in a suit with a big smile, to "help you".

Such are the foibles of the human mind.

 

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5 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

My concerns are not what 'men' think of JW Org, but what God thinks of it. I was hoping things would move forward more quickly but it seems I must have patience.  In probably 3 more months things will become more plain for everyone to see. And by the end of the year hopefully God will have sorted the Org out, if indeed He intend to use it at all. 

 

Okay. Fair. See what happens. Do not be a foot soldier for. Do not be a foot soldier against. Be there (ideally at meetings) for your wife and son.

4 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

What should be your concern is enduring and be in the right for your actions because anyone at any given time can lose their faith and or salvation, hence why it is important to take into account of what Jude 3 says about maintaining faith being a hard fight.

 

Yes.

5 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

I really would like to give warning of the massive storm i see coming and the danger it may cause to brothers and sisters, but no one will talk to me, so there is nothing i can do. i do ask my wife to warn others that danger may be close by, but she refuses to do so. So I'm quite helpless in the matter.

Nobody can say that you have not tried. Sit tight and see how it plays out. At the Kingdom Hall even were you to persuade others that the org had dropped the ball, you would you be unlikely to get them to think that wrath from the courts or uprising from the people would improve things. They will think that God will use the present arrangement to clean up whatever mess they have stepped into. Don't be too quick to assume they are wrong. 

At the last Regional was a segment dealing with child sexual abuse. Nobody, but nobody, assembles their entire membership as the GB did and reviews detailed scenarios under which abuse might happen so that parents – the first line of defense - can educate their children and themselves. If they screwed up in the past (and I have not agreed they have) it is hard to imagine anyone atoning for it better.

Especially emphasized was the fact that a perpetrator is likely to be someone a child knows and trusts. If a relative, or friend, or anyone else, seems overly attentive to your child – it is a reason to be watchful, said the program.  If there are tickling sessions, if there are sleepovers, if there are trips alone to the public restroom, if - there were several other scenarios. They are all potential red flags - maybe harmless, but maybe not, and the parent must be aware. “The wise one sees the [potential] calamity approaching and takes action” was the Bible verse repeatedly cited. 

5 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

When i joined the Org i had just been 'released' from a Children's Home where i had suffered sexual, physical and emotional abuse

Okay. Herein is found your new role. Let us do a Luke 22:32 number on you:

that the Lord has "made supplication for you that your faith may not give out; and you, once you have returned, strengthen your brothers."

I think no one will be better equipped to strenthen the ones of Jehovah's people who have suffered abuse then you "once you have returned."

It would appear that there are three facets of the child abuse situation: rehabilitation of victims, punishment of perpetrators, and prevention. Work on the first and the third. Ones who would devote themselves to the second are not lacking for numbers. The second is not nothing, but even when punishment is meted out, it does little to prevent future occurances, as @Space Merchant makes clear, nor heal the victims.

Prevention and rehabilitation is where you can devote your best efforts. In the meantime, be a good support model for your family to lean upon. They (at least your wife) would prefer that you not be in the situation that you are in. But she will support you, if you do not act in a way she considers outragious, if you sit tight, work through a crisis, and see how things unfold.

Most likely the elders, if you have been as forthright with them about your history as you have with us, will do so too. They won't say anything, and some will be more in tune than others, but they will most likely lend silent support as they observe. I get the sense they took no pleasure (they never do) in doing what they thought they had to do.

As to: "As a complete contrast the congregation I joined was so full of peace and what i thought was love. That is why i accepted it so easily. I was naive and looking for security in a wicked world" - don't flush down the drain decades of life. Build upon it.

 

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On 3/19/2018 at 4:39 AM, Space Merchant said:

Everyone speaks of pedophilia and child abuse and cover-ups, no matter the faith, the background or affiliation, be it religious or non-religious and when such is done, no such persons hold up to any moral superiority (this is a first of such I have seen), especially in an imperfect world who abuses the gift given to them, the gift of Free-Will.

I wouldn't say it is an acceptance of who is better and who is not. Church organizations tend to be better in theology, scripture, teachings and the like than others, for they are the shepherds to their flock, those who follow such churches are people of different backgrounds, and since most churches tend to Evangelize people regarding what is said in the bible about making disciples and the like and teaching the gospel to a multitude of people. As for Spiritual Paradise, there is still imperfection no matter who the person is.

As for policies, if someone follows what is scriptural, it does not make it messed up, foolish and or ridiculous, for anyone hardpressed in scripture will follow it and live by it, that being said, I take the word of the ARC on how regarding the rules and regulations of said faith and at least come to a conclusion as to the how and why such rules they have are so, in addition to that, if they have information on child abuse to teach to their followers, should the followers accept it, that tells you something, for not many are willing to teach about child abuse unless it actually happens unexpectedly among the community of a faith. Plus elsewhere there has been many, many discussions about the rules, beliefs of other faiths in addition to their policies, with fact and how such is used, I know enough, as do others who really look into it themselves instead of some randoms making a rule out into something that it is not.

As for speaking to the members of said issues, it is up to them if they want to keep it among the leaders within that church location and or tell their members this, only if such is okay with the family/victim and the sake of the victim and guardian of the victim, you have to respect that. Some matters at times are kept private, only known by the leaders and the family of the victim, or should the family state they want to time to heal before anything can be said to others, as for the abuser, what can simply be said is so and so has has removed and or no longer with the church, something along those lines and evidently later on they will know the reason why, but again, depends on those in authority within the church or institution and how the family is involved if their child is victim.

I say this because some parents of victims tend not to want such information disclosed about what they have been through to be made public to local churchgoers, and respecting one's privacy until their ordeal has been dealt with is a a positive thing. Even outside of a church, parents of the victim will have very few and or specific persons of whom they disclosed the information of child abuse to, which will eventually get on the radar of the police, this has been heavily expressed in PSAs regarding child abuse met to teaching adults, teens, and children alike and options available, teaching them of personal spaces, talking to people you trust (talking to adults on what took place, asking of other adults, etc), for anyone in those age groups witness child abuse or know the signs and or dealing with someone who has already been affected, especially when it comes to young ones, unaware of what happen and is confused, keeping the information secret from others and will only express the truth about the abuse to someone that they trust, it could be parents, other than the parents, it could be a friend, a teacher, a neighbor, etc. In the end, it is there choice of how they want to deal with the situation to have  positive outcome for the family and the victim. PSAs and  information can easily be found, I would post some here, but obviously what is said in the PSAs is and will evidently be ignored when the reality and truth is expressed through them.

For there is a saying, respect the wishes of the family, should they choose to go down that route, no matter who they are or what they believe, to go back should said person bring it up only makes you not a trusted person.

But I do strongly agree, Child Abuse is indeed a problem, a big problem, and it is among the branches of other things like human trafficking, sacrifice/killing of children, etc. Other things, even minor things is considered Child Abuse and will result in your own children to be taken away from you, etc. Also you have to also realize it isn't not always an adult that is the abuser, when it comes to that point, it becomes very difficult and complex of how things are dealt with in order to help the victim of this form of child abuse. Another thing to note is you have to be aware that no matter the group or institution, they will most likely do an internal investigation first while on the other hand the victim's family will aid and or seek help outside of the internal investigation if or if not said persons called the police.

An example of internal investigation regarding child abuse, a teacher having had intercourse with a minor outside of school grounds (sometimes on school grounds itself), said teacher had been exposed via internal investigation, 50% of the time it is found out via social media or a high probability due to the student who is the victim. The school will zero in on teacher and fire her, and with what is known, the police is contacted by the school and or the victim's parents when the school informs them of such conduct (often times the parents do the investigation themselves before contacting the police) and not many are made known as to why said teacher was fired until months later down the road when said information is given the green light to be made public with the minor and or major evidence against the abuser, that is, the teacher - rarely is police called immediately when a known abuse is present, especially with the recent cases in both public and religious schools in the US. The teacher, now removed, school continues day in and day out, the victim will return should he chooses to and will seek counsel about his ordeal should he accept it, the parents of the victim will be on high alert and learn about child abuse themselves and or is informed about it by the police.

That being said, internal investigations is pretty much the norm to religious, business, and educational based institutions, and or secondary groups/activities, etc.

Saving face or the trauma of an investigation is really no excuse not to report. It's not just about punishment. By identifying sexual predators, law enforcement can remove the offender from society or monitor his whereabouts. If a child molester isn't reported to police, he can go and do the same evil to another innocent child. In fact, evading punishment can embolden a sexual predator. It's disturbing that predators were able to hop from congregation to congregation leaving a trail of abuse. JWs look to the elders for direction--we know many JWs that await their permission for the most mundane things. But their example shows a resistance to reporting abuse unless the legal system forces their hand. So what does that communicate to these ones? Don't get the police involved. That's read between the lines.

Why resist the authorities that have the means to uncover evidence of wrongdoing? The elders cannot get a warrant to search a person's property--their investigations are reliant on willing testimony. Even with evidence, they can't make an arrest. It seems odd to resist a resource that could potentially expose a predator and keep the congregation clean. 

TBH I think the org decided many years ago to not get involved in child abuse and to put the burden on the family. How often can it be said that a family's choice has authority in this org? This was likely to cover their butts from legal accountability. This means the elders have limited capacity to protect the flock. It's unfortunate that this lawyer attitude has permeated the org. At some point, the org is a beast that behaves with its own self-interests and not the individuals that make up it. The org uses human law more and more to justify it's behavior.

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2 hours ago, Noble Berean said:

Saving face or the trauma of an investigation is really no excuse not to report. It's not just about punishment. By identifying sexual predators, law enforcement can remove the offender from society or monitor his whereabouts. If a child molester isn't reported to police, he can go and do the same evil to another innocent child. In fact, evading punishment can embolden a sexual predator. It's disturbing that predators were able to hop from congregation to congregation leaving a trail of abuse. JWs look to the elders for direction--we know many JWs that await their permission for the most mundane things. But their example shows a resistance to reporting abuse unless the legal system forces their hand. So what does that communicate to these ones? Don't get the police involved. That's read between the lines.

Right, there's no excuse to report something at the same time people can choose to take some sort of action and how they go about such action they tend to carry out. Regarding Child Abuse with what is known predators are indeed taken off the streets and or investigated closely by authorities. The reality is, whether an abuser, be it reported, not reported and or under investigation, does any of the crime such as violence, and or molestation, such acts are still done by the abuser prior to his or her capture, far more difficult if the molester and or the one who has done the violence is a child who has abused another child, something of which that is not really talked about but is among one of the forms of child abuse, an example would be as seen in this article: 

    Hello guest!

Other:  

    Hello guest!

Evading punishment does not embolden a pedophile, for it is fact and evident that in the past and to now and onward, sexual predators have and will use various tactics to earn the trust of the targeted victim(s) and those that the victim is close to, be it parents, churchgoers, school peers, etc. One of the signs is that sexual predators with said trust can gain access to their victim easily for the victim suspects nothing, the most common case is if the predator buys gifts for the victim, volunteer to stand in as a guardian for the victim and so forth - something of which they cannot do unless they earn the trust of anyone connected to the victim and when the moment comes, these sexual predators take action when the victim is alone, for that is the goal for any of their tactics, to get the victim alone in one way or another, at times in the realm of Child Abuse in religion, predators, specifically Traffickers, use the Bible in order to lure children and those who are victim will be subjected to other things far worse than Child Abuse. Believe it or not, even in the Dark Internet (Deep Web) tactics are often shared,  and other vile things that is spread throughout the dark corners of such a space.

That being said, predators within the Jehovah's Witnesses do not stem too far from the tree, for like all predators, they go to a place where children is readily accessible, earn the trust of others, buy gifts even, and since this is a religious institution, they will attempt to hold some sort of position inside. The victim will not suspect a thing nor will the others, and seeing how JWs are known pacifist, their kindness and caring nature tend to be exploited quite easily, for as some have said, Christians who display a lot of love are easily exploitable, in the eyes of a predator, all they see is suckers for punishment who are gullible. Predators will usually move on to their next victim or another area after their actions to the first victim, to them it is like a game, a hunger to seek out other victims, using their status and or position as well as knowledge to trick another group of people, and find more victims to prey on, and they continue this cycle, should they find themselves being clumsy, they tend to jump off grid until they are tracked.

One of the reasons as to why real enemies of Christianity not only promote Child Abuse, but they are in literal back-flipping joy when Child abuse allegations is affecting religion, taking advantage of the child sex allegations.

Jehovah's Witnesses and church leaders of each of their church reflect what Jesus said about Shepherds to a Flock being one. As with any church, a churchgoer, one of the flock, will see guidance and or advice from those who are heads of the church, the shepherd, Deacons, Elders, Priests, Pastors, whichever you want to call them, so it is understandable as to why they are like this - for the bible says so.

I wouldn't call it resistance, for such things a church tends to handle things internally is within grounds of church discipline and any scriptural law/rules that they follow, so to speak. The only issue is when Child Abuse happens, those who are caught in the mess do not know how to deal with it and attempt to go about it thinking they are doing good in trying to figure things out, and clearly not ever church leader is experienced in dealing with Child Abuse, it is like saying if you are a church leader and found out about child to child abuse, since the abuser is below the age of 13, you will clearly be inexperienced to deal with that matter when police themselves suspects the abuser is an adult, when clearly that is not the case, on my end, I do have that experience and can recognize the signs, in addition to actually talking with people who were subjected to it.

All in all, JWs will just have to be educated on Child Abuse more effectively, they have publications on the subject that can easily be found, and if they can, they can talk with others to recognize the signs or speak to those with experience, so that way, things can be handled by the individual church swiftly and quickly with succession. That being said, ironically, pertaining to what Tom have stated, Child Abuse among JWs is low when all areas of which JWs have their churches and or found is very low, some areas there is little to no Child Abuse and or violence, places of which I had already made known to John earlier on.

2 hours ago, Noble Berean said:

Why resist the authorities that have the means to uncover evidence of wrongdoing? The elders cannot get a warrant to search a person's property--their investigations are reliant on willing testimony. Even with evidence, they can't make an arrest. It seems odd to resist a resource that could potentially expose a predator and keep the congregation clean. 

No. for they are obligated to follow the law of the land - but the law of the land itself cannot counter the law of God, for the law of God is the principle of which Christians follow within Christendom which is the polar opposite of mainstream Christianity who are willing to change what is written to be different, perhaps gain new converts which is the case in our day and age. To follow what the scripture say and suddenly resist contradicts one's faith easily. That being said, another thing within the realm of Child Abuse, if so and so has little to no evidence of what took place, nor have information to back it up, one key element is living evidence, which is the victim him or herself - for they can speak of what took place to a trusted adult, as instructed by those who teach the signs of child abuse regarding the victim, if one adult is unable to help and or offers little aid, tell another adult. There is also instruction if one police officer and or someone of authority is in the same position, You can go up the chain, so to speak for if the victim and or trusted adult feel that their complaint isn’t being taken seriously or if one feels  uncomfortable, the victim and or trusted adult can ask to speak to a supervisor or the next-highest ranking officer, again another adult.

Children will tend to speak to those they feel comfortable around and who is trusted. As for those who they speak this to, some will go above and beyond to do what is necessary, others will give advice and give guidance to the victim on what to do next, some will contact someone else to handle the issue because they at times tend not to get involved because they are uncomfortable persons, etc.

All individuals are different and go about such subjects differently and are not the kinds of people to not resist for even the police knows of such tendencies of those who tend to be surprised and or uncomfortable of such things revolving around child abuse. Now with parents, they have to go about things the right way in order to not entice fear in the victim, their child and or children, the case tends to be different if a relative and or family member is the abuser. Some families also want to keep things private and not cause a stir to other families and or people within the community - hence why is is crucial to respect the privacy and wishes of the family in this regard.

I need not to post a literal source to this because it is common sense, especially if you know the views and backgrounds of people who suffer minor to major abuse and or some form of violence and or tragedies. In the end, you take aim and guide your arrow to the root of the problem that is child abuse and the individual involved, not the people who are not involved and technically bystanders.

This is why those who are wise knows how to deal with the problem that is child abuse than those who want to burn everything down thinking that it is a just cause, to make matters worse, what they see as just they assume God wants them to do such things - very wrong and false on their part for thinking so, thus making the real enemies out there gain strength and number to really have it in for Christianity.

2 hours ago, Noble Berean said:

TBH I think the org decided many years ago to not get involved in child abuse and to put the burden on the family. How often can it be said that a family's choice has authority in this org? This was likely to cover their butts from legal accountability. This means the elders have limited capacity to protect the flock. It's unfortunate that this lawyer attitude has permeated the org. At some point, the org is a beast that behaves with its own self-interests and not the individuals that make up it. The org uses human law more and more to justify it's behavior.

The Jehovah's Witnesses do not have any choice, child abuse is like the Black Plague, to make it even worse, pedophilia and the sexual urges to children is like a curse, a demon, if you will, a person is afflicted by an cannot expel it, you'd be surprised of how many of them, who do not enact their vile urges on  child tend to see out professional help from those who know of the psychiatric disorder, and or do themselves a favor by getting away of children, self-isolation, which seems to be the case for some, others who have committed suicide, not wanting to harm a child and thinking that death is the only way out. Taking this into mind you have to see the world for what it really is - the price we pay for imperfection. To a degree, this world is a mess and a day will come when all that mess will be cleaned up,and child abuse will not be the very thing we worry about before we sleep. To make matters even worse, your biggest problem is that pedophilia and child abuse is being normalized, accepted in today's society, that in itself, as you said, emboldens predators, as well as those fighting such urges to snap and turn and becoming a monster that they tried not to be. I said this here before, Child grooming and marriage is seen as right - for children who were molested, raped, are forced to marry their rapist because it is now law in some parts of the US, and it is all over the place in the UK and EU countries, elsewhere, you have the underground where the most vile and sick things take place by real people of Babylon the Great that will not only rape and kill their victims, but the children of their victims should any child be born.

With that said, the Jehovah's Witnesses, like everyone else, is but a bird in crossfire, and obviously will end up taking a hit, which seems to be the case. To them however, they will attempt to deal with the situation at hand, but at the same time, they cannot and will not break biblical law to appease men, regardless of any legal action and or accountability - for if they had went around God's law or Paul's action of Civil Disobedience, as did Ra'hab and several others, they would end up like the mainstream Christians who are not really Christians at all compared to JWs, in addition, their strict following of the bible, as I told John, is borderline Nazarite Vow level, if you know what that is and how important it was. Family's do have choices, hence Child Abuse Prevention and identifying the Signs from various information and sources that are public to help minimize and or deal with child abuse, for if you tell someone about it, you can tell someone else, no one is preventing anyone from going to the police or to others to speak on the issue - it didn't stop parents from going about the issue of child abuse, even doing a bit of investigation for themselves reaping minor and or major evidence when teachers in educational institutions, mostly female teachers, who had sexually abuse, offered drugs and or gave their child alcohol. To the parents who are against child abuse, this is deemed a victory, and the school who had helped and or helped a little, did what they can do support for like others, they tend to be caught off guard, some did internal investigations of their own while helping some parents. Sadly, the law has given a free pass to female predator(s) that is, as they say, a perfect 10, because of looks, at times a feeble attempt of regret and repentance before the judge, obviously a double standard to male predators - justice system is a failed one.

Believe me, one can identify a beast when they see it, and it is not the Jehovah's Witnesses, last I recall, they were not among the Christians who literally handed over Syranic Christians over to ISIS, as well as contributors to child marriage laws and the like. That fact that you consider them or their church as the beasts just proves how people in today's society are more doom of what is soon to be seen due to not being vigilant and aware, that being said, a Restoration Christian group to be a beast is not only laughable, but lacks substance. In addition, the real hands of the beast are indeed at work if you paid any attention of what was going on for the past several years, for instance, the Summer of 2016, the events that took place prior to the JW ban in 2017, which indeed prove true since Vladimir Putin was reelected as president for the win was of little effort. All I can say about that remark of yours, is you are not ready for what a majority of us Christians know, I say this to JWs too, but they tend to be the more enduring ones, while others are more vigilant and ready.

And what are these human laws that they use? Restorationist follow religious law 100%, but if you are willing to post them, it would be wise to do so. Other then that, all Christians follow the laws of the land, but never ever will they allow the laws of the land to override God's law - for there is no type of laws that is above the Law of the one who is watching down over us.

God even says not to add, change or remove from the word.

Jesus stated the Scriptures cannot be broken.

Both of them are obviously in the right for saying such, for even man cannot break what is written, unless they are anti-Christian or mainstream Christians.

Anyways, take aim at the problem and those who contribute to it, not the people, this is the words of a UK native - who is against child grooming and child abuse.

That being said, people who know the laws agree with what the ARC say and made known about the JWs, and such information is public so it is readily easy to fact check anyone spouting something that is incorrect, and or anyone who has that Rick Wiles mentality.

 

The people know, friend, and they are not bashing JWs, they are gunning for the pedophiles found in the faith, as well as pedophiles who has been spread throughout all institutions known to man and even the very laws of which the US, the UK, and parts of EU that allows child grooming.

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@Noble Berean Wow a breath of sense in this crazy conversation. Have a nice day. 

 

Saving face or the trauma of an investigation is really no excuse not to report. It's not just about punishment. By identifying sexual predators, law enforcement can remove the offender from society or monitor his whereabouts. If a child molester isn't reported to police, he can go and do the same evil to another innocent child. In fact, evading punishment can embolden a sexual predator. It's disturbing that predators were able to hop from congregation to congregation leaving a trail of abuse. JWs look to the elders for direction--we know many JWs that await their permission for the most mundane things. But their example shows a resistance to reporting abuse unless the legal system forces their hand. So what does that communicate to these ones? Don't get the police involved. That's read between the lines.

Why resist the authorities that have the means to uncover evidence of wrongdoing? The elders cannot get a warrant to search a person's property--their investigations are reliant on willing testimony. Even with evidence, they can't make an arrest. It seems odd to resist a resource that could potentially expose a predator and keep the congregation clean. 

Thank you so much Noble Berean, I've been saying similar for a long time but no one listens..... 

 

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You know, it is hard for me to believe -  I mean, I grapple with it, but cannot escape the idea - and I specifically exclude @JOHN BUTLER from this and a handful of others who are right on top of the trees and so have not the best vantage point for contemplating the forest - that the true purpose of all condemnation of the GB's oversight is to slow down or, ideally, stop the preaching of the good news. 

Beyond all question, that is the effect. It is hard for me to believe that is not also the intent

That is not to say it is even the deliberate intent of those who weigh in critically - it is easy to get caught up in a cause. However the effect is undeniably to thwart what Jesus said at Matthew 24:14 or turn it into a bland nothing with no power.

Maybe I am missing something, but If they say they abhor child sexual abuse, if they assembled every member in the world at Regionals to educate them in prevention, and if they have achieved a prevention record 10 times that of anyone else, I do not see how they can be portrayed as the villains. I just don't. Temporarily lost footing in a windstorm - perhaps - but by no stretch of the imagination villains.

I see it as an overall attack on the spread of the good news, made by persons or entities desperate that it not be told, no different in principle than the Russian ban, where sexual abuse charges played absolutely no role at all.

That is not to say that the flashpoint is bogus, but only that it is being pumped up beyond all reason.

There is something in the air of this system of things to tear down anything that is an accomplishment. Mark Zuckerberg had better step very carefully, for there are some who would crucify him in the afermath of Cambridge Analytica. Did anyone read his apology in its entirety and not just sound bytes that are selected to further differing agendas of those who report it? It sure sounded genuine to me - he says he does not deserve our business if he cannot do better - and responsible, and he immediately launched corrective measures.

It is not enough. It will never be enough. Read how he is being reviled. He will apologize to his grave and it will not satisfy those who do not like him or Facebook.

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“Babylon” is an influential climate that holds power over one’s heart. 1 Cor 4:5 There is not one physical location on the earth where it isn’t found.  We can’t move from one organization to another, one religion to another and say, we’ve stepped out of “Babylon”.  Just as the New Covenant is represented by a “woman”/promise, Babylon is also represented by a “woman”.  Rev 17:4,5 (Gal 4:26-28)  Her “daughters” are Harlots, manifested in individuals; spiritually immoral false “prophets” who are under the woman covenant of death.  In the Watchtower, they are “fallen stars”/anointed Rev 8:10,11 (Matt 5:14,15; Phil 2:15; Dan 12:3) who “poison” with false teachings. 

Babylon is the power of the air, demonic exhalations that we can “breathe” in; resulting not in the promise of life, but death.    WT has taught this.  So…why would they say entering the organization is leaving Babylon, since it exhibits the same injustices as any other world entity.  It is obvious here that its members continually compare it as, in a sense, the “lesser of the two evils”. 

Every wayward teaching of the Wt. is sourced in this spirit.  James 3:15-18  It must be admitted that discarded teachings do not have their beginnings in the “light of the world” – Jesus Christ, since there is no sharing of light with darkness.  2 Cor 6:14-18

“As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the airthe spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.”  Eph 2:1-5

We are to recognize this power in individuals and walk away. 2 Cor 11:4

 “Do not be misled: “Bad company corrupts good character.”  Come back to your senses as you ought, and stop sinning; for there are some who are ignorant of God—I say this to your shame.”

 God will not change the direction of the Watchtower ’s "kingdom”; since it is fully, part of the world.  John 18:36  It fights its battles as the world does, relying on the governments to turn matters in its favor, something it has always practiced.  God changes individuals who turned to His Son; who in this dark world, is the only source of light.  The Father will not restructure or renew an entity that mimics, in every way – the world. 

There are two conflicting battles of authority – Satan’s, and Christ’s, who has conquered death. 

 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.”  Matt 28:18

“The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the worldAnd he said to him, “I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. If you worship me, it will all be yours.”

Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.’” Luke 4:5-8

John B. mentioned….”brothers and sisters that serve the org.”  If one views serving the organization as serving God, is it not the same as serving an idol?  Acts 17:25  The end time deception coming against the anointed ones challenges the words of Christ in Luke, by convincing millions to serve the “cravings of our flesh”, its “desires and thoughts” as Eph 2:1-5 speaks of. To mask the deception, a “preaching work” is established, but this preaching is done in error.  Therefore, Michael stands up for his anointed “kings of the earth” who are deceived by the power of the air. Rev 13:1,4

 Michael means, “Who is Like God”? Dan 12:1; Rev 12:7-9  The Beast from “sea” of mankind (Rev 13:1) that comes against and surrounds the holy ones/anointed, boasts there is nothing like it – “Who is like the Beast?” This is the Watchtower’s teachings;  there is nothing to come against “Jehovah’s organization.” Rev 13:6,7 Thus, it challenges the authority of God – exactly what Satan has planned. Watchtower’s spurious allegations go beyond Christ’s words, expecting devotion to another Master.  Matt 6:24; Deut 4:2; 12:32; Rev 22:18   

The GB will be ousted by the organization. “Her” skirts will be lifted to expose her shame.  Jer 13:20-23 This doesn’t mean a time of everlasting renewal, since the organization will function only a short time. Rev 17:12-18 A new composite leadership of both anointed and spiritual “Gentile” elders will rule “for one hour”. When Christ said, “come out of her, my people, this includes both anointed and all…to LEAVE.  We leave “confusion”, deception, false teachings…behind.  The only “safe haven” for our hearts is found with God and Christ.   Rev 18:4-8

 “Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power.  Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.13 Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth (not a partial truth, but in Christ, who is Truth) buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, (protecting the heart) and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace.  In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, (not found through serving an organization) with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.  Take the helmet of salvation (not from an organization) and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.”  Eph 6:10-17

Using those scriptures during a judicial meeting is enough to get one disfellowshipped.  Rev 13:11-14-17

John, you are proof that it is quite possible to serve the Father and His Son without men stipulating your each and every move.  I once talked with a JW who had been disfellowshipped, and he admitted that his relationship with the Father became closer since at that point he relied fully on Him.  Under pressure, he returned to the org and lost what he had gained.  Our only Mediator is Jesus Christ, not 8 men who believe they hold power over millions of souls.  That type of power is sourced in another spirit other than Holy Spirit.

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On 3/20/2018 at 11:33 AM, JOHN BUTLER said:

Tom says, to try to keep the Org clean, or, was it to be able to hide all the info in one place ? 

If they wanted to hide it, wouldn't it have been easier to not even document it? Or if it was documented, wouldn't it have been better to destroy it?

On 3/20/2018 at 11:33 AM, JOHN BUTLER said:

Why didn't the Governing Body follow the instruction from God as written in Romans 13 v 1 through 7.

There were no specific laws on how to handle child sexual molestation put in place by governments for a long time. It is relatively recently where governments have begun to investigate this problem in an effort to implement effective remedies.

On 3/20/2018 at 11:33 AM, JOHN BUTLER said:

The California court, which surely represents the government, demanded the documents that the JW Org / GB had concerning Child Abuse within the JW Org USA. By opposing the court the Governing Body were in fact opposing God. The scripture proves that. 

As far as I am aware Zalkin has many of the documents already, but has been ordered by the court to keep them confidential, and locked up. I am no lawyer but it's evidently not just a simple matter of handing over documents that's the problem. 

On 3/20/2018 at 11:33 AM, JOHN BUTLER said:

So in times of spiritual warfare it is proper to misdirect  the enemy by hiding the truth". This article also leads people into the way of thinking that telling lies is OK if you are doing it to protect the Organisation. 

And in my opinion that is what the GB think, and also practice today. 

How you think the GB apply this to pedophiles makes no sense. How would "hiding" the truth about pedophiles protect the organization? The principle of "hiding the truth from enemies" or from those "who had no right to know" was to protect lives. Pedophiles, just like any other Witnesses who are Witnesses in name only, bring shame to the org. but nobody is that naive to believe that these individuals do not exist within the org. and hopefully no one is that dumb to believe that such individuals are purposefully protected and shielded from punishment. 

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      TIRED OF BEING MANIPULATED BY FAKE NEWS?
      VERY SIMPLE SOLUTION ... GET EDUCATED ABOUT WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON AROUND YOU!
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      With Case Study 54 only a few days away, THIS FRIDAY (AUSTRALIAN TIME) MARCH 10, 2017 (You do the math for local time...) a lot of discussion has been circulating as to exactly what we can expect when Watchtower appears once again before the Australian Royal Commission.
      I’ve decided to chip in a few observations here to help set expectations and to contribute to the discussions as best I’m able. So without further ado, let’s quickly run through what we know:
       
      What exactly will be discussed?   According to the Commission website, the scope of the study is as follows
      1.      The current policies and procedures of Jehovah’s Witnesses and Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Australia Ltd in relation to child protection and child-safe standards, including responding to allegations of child sexual abuse.
      2.      Factors that may have contributed to the occurrence of child sexual abuse at Jehovah’s Witnesses and Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Australia Ltd institutions.
      3.      Factors that may have affected the institutional response of Jehovah’s Witnesses and Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Australia Ltd to child sexual abuse.
      4.      The responses of Jehovah’s Witnesses and Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Australia Ltd to relevant case study report(s) and other Royal Commission reports.
      5.      Any related matters.
      The purpose of this public hearing is not to inquire into individual sets of facts or particular events as has occurred in previous Royal Commission case studies.
      Why does the Case Study 54 hearing appear to be only one day long?   This may appear at first glance to be a surprise. How can a single day of testimony possibly be enough to cover the vast and complex issue of Watchtower’s child abuse scandal?
       
      Well, remember that Case Study 54 isn’t a fact finding mission. That was Case Study 29. The Commission spent days digging and interviewing, and Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. . As far as the Commission is concerned, the facts are in. There is no further debate. Case Study 54 is tasked purely with a quick review of those facts and then with publicly asking Watchtower what is has done to address the damning failures identified in Case Study 29.
      Remember what Justice McClellan said to Watchtower’s legal team? That they were going to come back to Watchtower and publicly ask them what had been done to address the issues?
      That’s what this is.
       
      So what has Watchtower done in the 21 months since Case Study 29?   As far as I am aware, the only potential effort from  Watchtower to address any of the concerns raised in the Royal Commission has been to no longer require an abuse survivor to confront their attacker. However, it was not clear from testimony if this practice had actually been halted before the Commission sat. Watchtower seemed to insist in testimony that it was, but their documentation did not reflect this.
      Thus one cannot say with certainty that even this potential change has come as a result of the Commission report.
       
      So Watchtower is going to stand before the Commission, after 21 months, and basically say they’ve done nothing at all?   I have no idea.
       
      I mean, that would be the honest thing to do, but remember how slippery and devious Watchtower was in Case Study 29, with senior Watchtower officials like Rodney Spinks, Terrence O’Brain and Governing Body Member Geoffrey Jackson attempted to mislead and outright lie to the Commission on multiple occasions. As far as I can see, Watchtower has three options
       
      Admit they’ve done nothing and that they don’t intend to for religious reasons, and turn the whole thing into an issue of religious freedom.   Try to stall and muddy the waters by saying they’ve not had enough time, that they have no authority to make the changes required without Brooklyn agreement, knowing full well that Brooklyn is beyond the reach of the Commission. The idea here would be to stall until the day is over, then slink away and wait, knowing no further testimony is required.   Dive full into another round of misleading doublespeak and outright lies to try and pull the wool over the Commission’s eyes. Which one will they pick? Again I have no idea. Judging from Watchtower’s jaw-dropping legal incompetence in Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. and in the recent Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , it’s very hard to predict their strategy. It seems to have no rhyme or reason, but keep in mind three things.
       
      The men in charge of Watchtower are firstly very deluded. They genuinely think they are defending God’s organization against Satanic and apostate attack, and feel that compromise will be a victory for Satan.   The men in charge of Watchtower are very out of touch with real life, spending all their days in a world where you don’t question Watchtower or those who run it, and now they’ve risen to the top. Their word is law. Odds are that no-one has told Anthony Morris III that his ideas are stupid for a very long time. They have no idea how to handle the kind of environment the Royal Commission brings to the table. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , where Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. was proof of that.   The men in charge of Watchtower are caught between being honest with a Commission that has all of their dirty little secrets on the one hand, and playing to the growing audience of JW’s who they know WILL find out about March 10th one way or the other. They have to both be as compliant as possible to the Commission whilst also appearing to be steadfast and unmovable to the Witnesses who will end up seeing the testimony on YouTube.   So delusion, seclusion, and public relations are all going to crash into once horrible mess as they did in Case Study 29 and as a result I have no idea what Watchtower will do on Friday.
       
      We  hope to preserve the live steam video for future reference as the Commission does not archive or make this video available once the live stream is over. However, technical gremlins are always a factor so if you have the ability to record the live stream, it would be a great idea to do so as well. The more people do this, the less chance of this footage being lost forever.
       
      Lastly we will of course be following up with articles on the day, giving you a more detailed analysis of what has transpired.
      Get your popcorn (and your coffee if you’re staying up late) and lets all observe the car crash together!
      And one last thing: if it is safe for you to do so, please tell as many Jehovah’s Witnesses as you can about the events on March 10th. Their children are at risk and they don’t even know it. They may choose not to look up the Case Study, but simply being aware that it exists is the first step in raising awareness that the Governing Body is not being honest with them about the international scandal of child abuse inside the Watchtower organization.
      (edited for political correctness and other stuff ...) JTR
       
       



    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      I just read that the Spanish organization "Abusos TJ" has sent a letter to the Ministry of the Interior on Wednesday to urge him to investigate the alleged cases of sexual abuse that have been concealed for years from the different congregations in Spain of the Jehovah's Witnesses. And the news shows this photo of the instructions given to the elders

      If these instructions are true, my question is what Bible base have these instructions? And why not inform the elders of the new congregation about a person who could be a danger to the community? 
    • By Jack Ryan
      The Jehovah's Witness Church in Australia failed to protect children in its care from sexual predators, a report has found.
      The Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse delivered its report into the organisation on Monday.
      It stated that: "Children are not adequately protected from the risk of child sexual abuse in the Jehovah's Witness organisation and [the commission] does not believe the organisation responds adequately to allegations of child sexual abuse."
      Survivors of sexual abuse within the church and senior church members appeared before a public hearing last year.
      The inquiry heard the church received allegations of Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. over a 60-year period but did not report a single claim to police.
      In its report on the inquiry, the royal commission found that the organisation's general practice of "not reporting serious instances of child sexual abuse to police or authorities, demonstrated a serious failure on its part to provide for the safety and protection of children."
      The royal commission determined that the church's response to allegations of child sexual abuse were outdated, including a rule that there must be two witnesses to an incident, which "showed a serious lack of understanding of the nature of child sexual abuse".
      "It noted the rule, which the Jehovah's Witness organisation relies on, and applies inflexibly even in the context of child sexual abuse, was devised more than 2000 years ago," the report found.

      Royal commission chairman Justice Peter McClellan. Photo: Jeremy Piper
      The Jehovah's Witnesses approach to handling claims internally was not appropriate for children or survivors of sexual abuse, the report found.
      "Survivors are offered little or no choice in how their complaint is addressed, sanctions are weak with little regard to the risk of the perpetrator re-offending."
      The head of the Jehovah's Witness community's service desk, Rodney Spinks, is considering the report and is expected respond on Monday afternoon.
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    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      Legislators ‘need to stopÂ’ working for institutions
      Dave Kohler, of Allentown, was abused by an ordained minister in the Jehovah’s Witnesses in November 1965. He was 9 years old. 
      When Kohler was 17, his abuser told him to never talk about the abuse again. 
      “So I obeyed and kept my mouth shut,” Kohler said. 
      He’s been coming to Harrisburg for about five years to show his support for statute of limitations reform. “Individuals vote them in, and then they work for institutions,” Kohler said of the state legislators. “That needs to stop.”
      If reform is passed that would allow Kohler the opportunity to sue his abuser, Kohler said he knows what he would do with any money he could collect.
      “I will hopefully be able to afford therapy,” he said.

      Dave Kohler, who said he was abused by an ordained minister in the Jehovah's Witnesses in Kutztown and Emmaus, talks about his experience, during the demonstration for statute of limitations reform to the state's childhood sexual abuse laws at the state capitol in Harrisburg on Monday. (Photo: Paul Kuehnel, York Daily Record)

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    • By The Librarian
      This cover up goes all the way up to the Vatican!
      The Vatican is not even responding 
    • By Witness
      Watchtower 14/11/15 
      The flocking of many humans to worship Jehovah with his people in this time of the end was foretold by two ancient prophets. Isaiah prophesied: “Many peoples will go and say: ‘Come, let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, to the house of the God of Jacob. He will instruct us about his ways, and we will walk in his paths.’ For law will go out of Zion, and the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem.” (Isa. 2:2, 3)
      If, therefore, we wish to benefit from Jehovah’s protection during the great tribulation, we must recognize that Jehovah has a people on earth, organized into congregations. We must continue to take our stand with them and remain closely associated with our local congregation. With all our hearts, may we join the psalmist in proclaiming: “Salvation belongs to Jehovah. Your blessing is upon your people.” —Ps. 3:8.
      Protection?  Blessings?  Have you considered how a victim of abuse feels about this?
      Tell me, JWs, when the court systems of the world must alert and teach JWs to show compassion and righteous judgment to victims of child abuse, where is the “law that goes out from Zion” – GOD’S LAW?
      Does this organization protect and nurture, through the teaching of God’s law which is far superior than any court law of the land?  The “law” is found in the hearts of the anointed priests and kings that YOU refuse to recognize due to your submission to a Harlot/false prophet/ Wicked Slave; and her muscle, the elder body carrying out their own version of God’s laws. Isa 43:10; I Pet 2:5,9,10; Heb 8:10; Rev 13:1,6,7,11,14-17; Matt 24:48-51
      WAKE UP!  It can’t be excused away that this organization  IS Zion, yet offers no protection or blessing from the true God, YHWH. It is all, a delusion.  2 Thess 2:9-12
      Mount Zion, in all its glory, is NOT FOUND IN SATAN’S WORLD, called the “mountainlike organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses” but in the hearts of righteous faithful anointed ones,  who LEAVE THIS LIE BEHIND.   Many others, have found it to be “neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, the now “apostate city” of Harlots and their hardened hearts. 2 Chron 7:14  “God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”  John 4:21-24
      “What are you, mighty mountain? Before Zerubbabel you will become level ground. Then he will bring out the capstone to shouts of ‘God bless it! God bless it!’”  Zech 4:7
      “The second angel sounded his trumpet, and something like a huge mountain, all ablaze, was thrown into the sea. A third of the sea turned into blood, 9 a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.”  Rev 8:8,9
      It is blasphemy to believe that the cornerstone of God’s Zion/Temple (1 Pet 2:6) and his fulfillment of the “law” based on love, would approve of such twisting of God’s decrees, by men who trust only in themselves. Isa 2:22
      YHWH’s Genuine Mountain – Pearl Doxsey 4womaninthewilderness
       https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/362404/silent-lambs-child-sexual-abuse-and-the-jehovah-s-witnesses
       
       edited for sentence structure
       
    • By Jack Ryan
      A message to young people in this weeks Watchtower Study paragraph 12:
      How to use the website jw.org to guide you answering a peer asking “Why do you believe in god?”
       
      The answer to that question can and should not be guided. If the question was about the flood or the end of the world then yes, use a textbook answer that can be “researched” on the website.
      But a personal question like that shouldn’t need to be guided from any outside source. If you have a real faith or belief in a higher power then you wouldn’t need an outside source to help you explain that.
       
    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      A new worship centre for Jehovah's Witnesses is coming to Gloucestershire.
      Plans were approved earlier this week (June 19) by Gloucester City Council to build the place of worship in Kingsway.
      The development will be the second Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses in Gloucester, the first being based in Abbeydale.

      The plans for the Jehovah's Witnesses Kingdom Hall in Kingsway (Image: Gloucester City Council)
      The proposal includes a single storey building to be used by Jehovah's Witnesses as a place of worship and religious education, as well as five car parking spaces.
      The developer, Elevation One building design, said the building will resemble a site used by the religious group in Dover.
      A planning statement submitted by the firm said two new halls like the proposed have been built in the last year and another 14 nationwide have been planned.
      The site fronts Thatcham Avenue and abuts the southern boundary of Kingsway Primary School.

      The plans for the Jehovah's Witnesses Kingdom Hall in Kingsway (Image: Gloucester City Council)
       
      It is not clear when building works will begin.
      It will be the ninth Kingdom Hall in Gloucestershire with others in Cirencester, Cheltenham, Tewkesbury, Stroud, Dursley, Blakeney and Lydney, in addition to the existing on in Gloucester.

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    • By Witness
      This is in response to Jack Ryan's thread entitled, "...the angel of Jehovah camps all around those fearing him"  https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/topic/57218-“’the-angel-of-jehovah-camps-all-around-those-fearing-him’/  
      It concerns the leaked Attendant Training Videos, of which I saw only a condensed review of them. The speaker of the training video remarks:"
      “Well, with a warm smile, you have the privilege to welcome all to a place of worship where the atmosphere is like a spiritual oasis in a parched land, and by taking the initiative to offer a helping hand you can be like those streams of cool water that bring refreshment to all.  And by promoting a safe and peaceful environment you can provide a place of concealment for all f our invited guests…It’s as if our great host Jehovah has extended his welcoming arms by means of you, so that everyone in attendance will feel like they have entered a house that is safe and secure.  Remember, too, you will not be working alone in behalf of God’s people.  Psalm 34:7 assures us, the angel of Jehovah camps all around those fearing him, so by means of his powerful angels, Jehovah can shield his faithful worshipers from harm, “IF IT BE HIS WILL”. 
      Jack Ryan's comment:
      “It appears that it wasn’t/isn’t Jehovah’s will to protect children from being sexually abused within His own congregations. It appears that these powerful angels are shielding no one, if He isn’t protecting these most vulnerable amongst us.
      Frankly, it appears that it isn’t Jehovah’s will to protect His people in general.”
      “IF IT BE HIS WILL”
      Temperamental god, this “Jehovah”. Would a God of love be so fickle?  
      “Whoever dwells in the shelter of the Most High
          will rest in the shadow of the Almighty.
       I will say of the Lord, ‘He is my refuge and my fortress,
          my God, in whom I trust.’”  Ps 91:1,2
       The true God, YHWH, that I am coming to know keeps His promises toward His faithful ones. If this speaker has doubts and feels the need to add an addendum to Ps 34:7, he is fully aware of the organization’s risky status in Russia and other countries, or he is reflecting on the rampant child abuse situation that the Watchtower unashamedly refuses to concretely address. Jer 8:11,12; Eph 5:11   Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      The video is playing out a “showy display” of compassion and love before the masses, outweighing the hidden lack of it, which results from transgressing God’s requirements.  Eph 5:6,8,9  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      To be found “faithful” with the Father, we submit to His discipline and refinement. We prove ourselves worthy of His protection by following Christ’s Words. Zech 13:9; Mal 3:2-4; Heb 12:6 It is not God’s will that we rely on a corrupt organization for protection. Ps 26:4,5  It is His will that we rely on Him and His Son. Joel 2:12,13; Isa 48:17,18  Nowhere in the scriptures are we told to turn to an earthly image – a god of fortress for protection during the end times. (1 Sam 7:3) Dan 11:38,39; Rev 13:1,5-8  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      On the contrary, we are told to worship in spirit and truth and to seek out those Christ sends, at the same time to be on the lookout for false prophets.  John 4:24;3:8; 16:13,14; Matt 23:34; John 13:20; Acts 17:24; Heb 9:11; Matt 7:15-20   Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      Is “Jehovah’s CHARIOT” leading the sheep to truly love one another? All evidence of its past and present failings to protect the flock, point to “no”.   Mark 12:29-31; Matt 22:40; John 15:9-14; Rom 13:8-10  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      Please, do not sweep the obvious under the carpet, JWs! 
      “…Love does NO HARM to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.”  Rom 13:10
      The trouble begins within the internal mechanism of the organization; the ruling elders, both the leaders and their henchmen; therein, is the source of all suffering, seen and unseen, happening within the Watchtower. Rev 8:10,11; Amos 5:7; Rev 9:1-4; Joel 2:1-10  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      Watchtower 13/1/15 pg 27-31  “Rather than making rigid rules for the congregation, ELDERS rely on Scriptural principles and direction from Jehovah’s organization. After all, present-day elders are not the masters over their brothers’ faith. — Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      In reality, scriptural principles are basically ignored, while direction from the organization dictates every working aspect of the Watchtower.   We have proof of this with the leaders’ latest resolve to barely bend their rigid rules with child molestation cases. Isa 10:1,2  They are WITHOUT A DOUBT cruel masters over the faith of each JW through their restrictive decrees that conflict with the ordinances of the true God, founded on love and righteousness.   Isa 29:13;Hab 1:4; 2 Cor 11:4,20;Col 2:20-22; Ps 89:14-17https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isa+10%3A1%2C2%3B+Isa+29%3A13%3BHab+1%3A4%3B+2+Cor+11%3A4%2C20%3BCol+2%3A20-22%3B+Ps+89%3A14-17+&version=NKJV
      As a result, it is absolutely clear the organization does not follow God’s laws outlined by Christ and verified by scripture. Remembering that the governing body admit they are NOT INSPIRED by God’s Holy Spirit, (Wt 2017/2) Anthony Morris recently stated that the “theocratic organization” receives its decisions or “decrees” from God.  Doesn’t it make you question the source of these decrees since God’s Holy Spirit does not “inspire” the governing body?
       Quote:  “When that direction comes out to Branch committee members, or when it comes out to the congregations; IF you want Jehovah’s blessing ON YOU as an individual or family, certainly as an ELDER or congregation, it’d be best to ask Jehovah to help you understand it, BUT OBEY THE DECISION.” (Joel 2:7) Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      Deut 4:2:  “You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.”
      John 14:15 “If you love me, keep my commandments.”
      One of those long held unscriptural decrees is for the elders to stand/rule over the authentic priesthood of God and their companions, while charging them as conspirators for accepting Christ’s lead above the organizational format, resulting in a judgment of “death” by disfellowshipping.  Ezek 44:6-9; 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Matt 24:15; 2 Thess 2:3,4;Rev 13:5-7,11,12,15; 1 John 3:11,12  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      God, who does not change His mind unlike “Jehovah’s organization”, PROMISES to be our shield and strength, IF we submit and follow HIS decrees through Christ, the head of the anointed Body.   Deut 33:29; 2 Sam 22:31; Nahum 1:7    Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      The anointed priesthood of God has a purpose – to offer sacrifices of praise and thanksgiving, to teach God’s laws written on their heart, admonish, direct, and heal, God’s sheep.  Isa 43:21; 1 Pet 2:9; Rom 2:13,15; Heb 13:15; Rev 7:10; Isa 44:23; Ezek 44:23; Jer 23:22; Mal 2:7; Rom 8:19-22; Rev 22:1,2  Yet, they have been restrained by a Wicked Slave/Harlot/Wormwood/false prophet and its delegated army from doing so, creating within the Watchtower, a spiritually “parched land”, void of the knowledge of God’s ordinances. (Yes, all these characteristic titles are prophetically fulfilled by the governing body)  Zeph 3:4; Amos 8:11; Joel 1:5-7; Rev 8:8  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      Can you imagine how God and Christ view the appointed Temple priesthood submitting to the rules of men and their handbook; and not to Christ and the laws written on their heart? Ezek 8:5,6 Those who are “ambassadors of Christ” are to work as one anointed Body, with each one a branch of the vine of Christ, which allows Holy Spirit to feed and direct the Body through all of its members. John 15:5-8; 1 Cor 12:20,25,26 Paul spoke of it as a “fearful responsibility” to carry the message of reconciliation. 2 Cor 5:11,19,20 (NLT)   Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      Are the unanointed elders who “represent the royal priesthood”, the true “ambassadors” or representatives of Christ? In the first century, would Christ have condoned others to replace the apostles who are the foundations stones of his Temple Body? 1 Cor 3:10,11 Neither should men muscle aside the “living stones” of God’s Temple from performing their duties as Christ’s ambassadors.  Ezek 34:20-23; Eph 2:20-22; John21:17; Luke12:42; Matt.5:14-15; Rev.1:20; Mal.2:7; Rev.22:6; John13:20 Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      Can you imagine God’s disgust, as His priests continue to allow a Harlot/false prophet “decree” that they remain apart from one another, not seek one another out, not “study the Bible together”, passively swallowing such UNSCRIPTURAL lies, and allow themselves to be trampled down by them? Matt 24:15; 2 Thess 2:3,4,9-12; Rev 11:1-3; Joel 1:4,5; Eph 5:14-20  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      In each instance when God’s people in the past disregarded His ordinances, He “sent”, or allowed, discipline to fall on them. (Deut 8:1-6; Heb 12:11)   Usually, it was in the form of an enemy’s stronghold. The “rod” of discipline this time, is the organization; specifically, the very army of elders who rule over them. Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      The very army that chooses to ignore the plight of the helpless ones.  Ps 89:30-32; Rev 3:19; Rev 9:1-11  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      Joel 1:4 describes them as locust in all historic and individual stages of type and development.
      KJV:
      That which the palmerworm hath left --- “a creeping locust without wings”-“to devour”…
      …hath the locust eaten  ---  a locust “swarm”…
      …and that which the locust hath left …
      …hath the cankerworm eaten  ---  “a devourer; specifically, the young locust”…
      …and that which the cankerworm hath left…
      …hath the caterpiller eaten  ---  “a locust not yet winged” “the ravager” 
      Now, picture the locust swarm “released” by the Harlot/Wormwood to come against the anointed priesthood – against the Temple of God:
      “Many Christian men apply that encouragement and make spiritual progress to qualify for privileges in the congregation. The result is that God’s people are blessed with TENS OF THOUSANDS of capable elders and ministerial servants. But because of the increase seen in the congregations, there is a need for more brothers to reach out.” Wt 14/9/15
      FROM PEARL DOXSEY’S ARTICLE: “THE GREAT TRIBULATION – WHAT AND WHY”:
      “The Great Tribulation is a spiritual assault by Satan upon the remnant, ( Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.   t
      through the greatest Army that has ever existed [ Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  -( Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ); Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ]  
      It has a deceptive priestly - princely veneer ( Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. )
      of divine INSPIRATION*** and approval,through endorsement by the false prophet's lying spirit,   
      NOT by God's spirit! ( Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) ( Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) ( Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ; Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. --***"breath" - Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ).  
      (*** False prophet produces a counterfeit of "God's SPIRIT - DIRECTED Organization")
      [The AUTHENTIC Temple of God's spirit, is His Chosen, anointed priesthood ( Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. )] 
      God sends / allows this abomination, to assault and discipline His people ( Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  C;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ; Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ) ( Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ), because in the time of the end,  
        GOD’S PEOPLE are tolerating, subjecting themselves to, and participating in IDOLIZING, the collective "Image" of that very Army ( Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ). 
      THAT IS WHY THEY ARE BEING TRAMPLED BY IT”  ( Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ; Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.   Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. , Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ;  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content. ).
      The love which results in righteous acts, simply does not exist in the organization since the climate of lawlessness has erased true justice. Deut 6:24,25  For those anointed who reject the GB that “substitutes” for Christ (NWT 2 Cor 5:20) ,turning instead to Jesus Christ to lead them directly; they are freed from the crushing weight of lawlessness – “ the disgusting thing standing in the holy place” – the elder body “standing” in/over the “living stones” of the Temple of God. 2Chron.13:9; 2Thess.2:4; Isa 43:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      “Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with LAWLESSNESS? And what communion has light with darkness? 15 And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? 16 And what agreement has the TEMPLE OF GOD with idols? For youare the temple of the living God. As God has said:
      “I will dwell in them
      And walk among them.
      I will be their God,
      And they shall be My people.”
      17 Therefore
      “Come out from among them
      And be separate, says the Lord.
      Do not touch what is unclean,
      And I will receive you.”
      18 “I will be a Father to you,
      And you shall be My sons and daughters,
      Says the Lord Almighty.” 2 Cor 6:14-18
      We are reminded during this time period, of “Who is like God”, since “Jehovah’s organization” with all its “temple” sublets, has seduced God’s people into idolatry and the transgression of God’s laws fulfilled in Christ.  Deut 4:23,24;  Isa 40:25; Dan 12:1; Rev 12:7-9; Rev 13:4; Gal 5:14 Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.  
      Within Watchtower’s walls, instead of an angel of God camping all around those fearing Him, another angel – Belial -  has surrounded the camp of holy ones, utilizing a Harlot/false prophet and the organization she so presently loves, to keep them captivated and inebriated on wormwood, and a false sense of peace and security. Matt 25:5; 22:8; Rev 18:3; 1 Cor 6:15; Jer 51:7; 1 Thess 5:3; Rev 20:9  Hello guest! Please register or sign in (it's free) to view the hidden content.
      13 “If you carefully obey my commands I am giving you today, to love the Lord your God and worship Him with all your heart and all your soul, 14 I will provide rain for your land in the proper time, the autumn and spring rains, and you will harvest your grain, new wine, and fresh oil. 15 I will provide grass in your fields for your livestock. You will eat and be satisfied. 16 Be careful that you are not enticed to turn aside, serve, and bow in worship to other gods. 17 Then the Lord’s anger will burn against you. He will shut the sky, and there will be no rain; the land will not yield its produce, and you will perish quickly from the good land the Lord is giving you.
      18 “Imprint these words of mine on your hearts and minds, bind them as a sign on your hands, and let them be a symbol on your foreheads. 19 Teach them to your children, talking about them when you sit in your house and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. 20 Write them on the doorposts of your house and on your city gates, 21 so that as long as the heavens are above the earth, your days and those of your children may be many in the land the Lord swore to give your fathers. 22 For if you carefully observe every one of these commands I am giving you to follow—to love the Lord your God, walk in all his ways, and remain faithful to him— 23 the Lord will drive out all these nations before you, and you will drive out nations greater and stronger than you are. 24 Every place the sole of your foot treads will be yours. Your territory will extend from the wilderness to Lebanon and from the Euphrates River to the Mediterranean Sea. 25 No one will be able to stand against you; the Lord your God will put fear and dread of you in all the land where you set foot, as he has promised you.
      26 “Look, today I set before you a blessing and a curse: 27 there will be a blessing, if you obey the commands of the Lord your God I am giving you today, 28 and a curse, if you do not obey the commands of the Lord your God and you turn aside from the path I command you today by following other gods you have not known.  Deut 11:13-28
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
    • By Jack Ryan
      Romy Maple and Barbara Anderson expose the horrendous child sexual abuse cover ups.
      You know it's bad when the program starts with this:

       
    • By Anna
      Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems that despite this informative document recently made available to download in several languages on the JW website, there is not too much of a mention of it by any of the opposers and "campaigners" against child abuse in the JW organization.
      Here is the entire document:
      JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES’ SCRIPTURALLY BASED POSITION ON CHILD PROTECTION
      Definitions: Child abuse may include neglect, physical abuse, sexual abuse, or emotional abuse.
      Child sexual abuse is a perversion and generally includes one or more of the following: sexual inter-course with a child; oral or anal sex with a child; fondling the genitals, breasts, or buttocks of a child; voyeurism of a child; indecent exposure to a child; or soliciting a child for sexual conduct. It may include sexting with a minor or showing pornography to a minor.
      In this document, references to parents apply equally to legal guardians or other persons who hold pa-rental responsibility for a minor.
      1. Children are a sacred trust, “an inheritance from Jehovah.”—Psalm 127:3.
      2. The protection of children is of utmost concern and importance to all Jehovah’s Witnesses. This is in harmony with the long-standing and widely published Scripturally based position of Jehovah’s Witnesses, as reflected in the references at the end of this document, which are all published on jw.org.
      3. Jehovah’s Witnesses abhor child abuse and view it as a crime. (Romans 12:9) We recognize that the authorities are responsible for addressing such crimes. (Romans 13:1-4) The elders do not shield any perpetrator of child abuse from the authorities.
      4. In all cases, victims and their parents have the right to report an accusation of child abuse to the authorities. Therefore, victims, their parents, or anyone else who reports such an accusation to the elders are clearly informed by the elders that they have the right to report the matter to the authorities. Elders do not criticize anyone who chooses to make such a report.—Galatians 6:5.
      5. When elders learn of an accusation of child abuse, they immediately consult with the branch office of Jehovah’s Witnesses to ensure compliance with child abuse reporting laws. (Romans 13:1) Even if the elders have no legal duty to report an accusation to the authorities, the branch office of Jehovah’s Witnesses will instruct the elders to report the matter if a minor is still in danger of abuse or there is some other valid reason. Elders also ensure that the victim’s parents are informed of an accusation of child abuse. If the alleged abuser is one of the victim’s parents, the elders will inform the other parent.
      6. Parents have the primary responsibility for the protection, safety, and instruction of their children. Therefore, parents who are members of the congregation are encouraged to be vigilant in exercising their responsibility at all times and to do the following:
      • Have direct and active involvement in their children’s lives.
      • Educate themselves and their children about child abuse.
      • Encourage, promote, and maintain regular communication with their children. —Deuteronomy 6:6, 7; Proverbs 22:3.
      Jehovah’s Witnesses publish an abundance of Bible-based information to assist parents to fulfill their responsibility to protect and instruct their children.—See the references at the end of this document.
       7. Congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses do not separate children from their parents for the purpose of instruction or other activities. (Ephesians 6:4) For example, our congregations do not provide or sponsor orphanages, Sunday schools, sports clubs, day-care centers, youth groups, or other activi-ties that separate children from their parents.
      8. Elders strive to treat victims of child abuse with compassion, understanding, and kindness. (Colossians 3:12) As spiritual counselors, the elders endeavor to listen carefully and empathetically to victims and to console them. (Proverbs 21:13; Isaiah 32:1, 2; 1 Thessalonians 5:14; James 1:19) Victims and their families may decide to consult a mental-health professional. This is a personal decision.
      9. Elders never require victims of child abuse to present their accusation in the presence of the alleged abuser. However, victims who are now adults may do so, if they wish. In addition, victims can be accompanied by a confidant of either gender for moral support when presenting their accusation to the elders. If a victim prefers, the accusation can be submitted in the form of a written statement.
      10. Child abuse is a serious sin. If an alleged abuser is a member of the congregation, the elders conduct a Scriptural investigation. This is a purely religious proceeding handled by elders according to Scriptural instructions and is limited to the issue of membership as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. A member of the congregation who is an unrepentant child abuser is expelled from the congregation and is no longer considered one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. (1 Corinthians 5:13) The elders’ handling of an accusation of child abuse is not a replacement for the authorities’ handling of the matter.—Romans 13:1-4.
      11. If it is determined that one guilty of child sexual abuse is repentant and will remain in the congregation, restrictions are imposed on the individual’s congregation activities. The individual will be specifically admonished by the elders not to be alone in the company of children, not to cultivate friendships with children, or display any affection for children. In addition, elders will inform parents of minors within the congregation of the need to monitor their children’s interaction with the individ-ual.
      12. A person who has engaged in child sexual abuse does not qualify to receive any congregation privileges or to serve in a position of responsibility in the congregation for decades, if ever. —1 Timothy 3:1-7, 10; 5:22; Titus 1:7.
      13. This document is available upon request to members of the congregation. It is reviewed at least once every three years.
      Source:
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    • By James Thomas Rook Jr.
      WHY would Jehovah's Witnesses reject Government  calls for Independent Inquiry into sexual abuse?


    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      On Friday, May 25, 20/20 will do "something special" for longtime co-anchor Elizabeth Vargas.
      You can call it a going-away party (10/9c, ABC). After 22 years at ABC (14 with the newsmagazine), the Emmy and Peabody Award–winning veteran journalist heads to A&E, where she’ll work under their new primetime banner, A&E Investigates.
      Tell us about your first two A&E shows.
      They’re the first in a nine-part series called Cults and Extreme Beliefs(premieres Monday, May 28, 10/9c). Each episode centers on a person who recently left the group we focus on.
      Our premiere looks at the [so-called “self-help”] NXIVM ring that made headlines when leader Keith Raniere and actress Allison Mack, a high-ranking member, were indicted for sex trafficking. We talk to Sarah Edmondson, who feels enormous regret that she recruited so many people into NXIVM and we follow her as she reaches out to some of them.
      And the second episode?
      It’s about an apocalyptic cult called Twelve Tribes. Our contact is a woman born into the group, cut off from the outside world. She now helps people to escape.
      What have you learned about these insular communities?
      That many of those involved are bright, well-meaning and incredibly altruistic. Some of these groups exist alongside modern society, with no one noticing. For instance, we profile the Jehovah’s Witnesses, which has a history of protecting alleged child molesters because they don’t believe in going to the police.

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    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      If you’ve been in Newcastle city centre recently, you will have noticed them.
      Happily handing out copies of The Watchtower from carts, Jehovah’s Witnesses are taking to Newcastle’s streets in their droves.
      And the reason for the recent increase is simply due to a change in tactics.
      For years, members have gone door-to-door to spread the word about the faith.
      But now members are heading into the city to try and reach out to more people.
      “We feel the use of carts allows us to reach people we perhaps wouldn’t meet at home due to their work schedules or other factors,” said spokesperson Andrew Schofield. “The carts also provide the public with the choice of approaching us or not, which some people appreciate.
      Read more: 
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    • Guest Nicole
      By Guest Nicole
      The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge have left hospital after the arrival of their third child, a boy.
      The couple's second son, who was born at 11:01 BST, weighing 8lb 7oz, is fifth in line to the throne.
      Prince George and Princess Charlotte had visited their brother at the Lindo Wing of St Mary's Hospital, London.
      Leaving the hospital Prince William said the couple were very happy, before holding up three fingers and joking he had "thrice the worry now".
      "We didn't keep you waiting too long this time," he added.
      When someone asked him whether the couple had decided on a name, he said: "You'll find out soon enough."
      Read more: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43864933

    • By James Thomas Rook Jr.
      (New news ....)  A MONTANA Judge Orders Jehovah’s Witnesses to Turn Over Internal Documents Related to Childhood Sexual Abuse
      April 12, 2018
       
      On April 5, 2018, Judge James Manley of Sanders County, Montana ordered the Jehovah’s Witnesses religious organization to produce documents and testimony related to internal reports and investigations into the childhood sexual abuse of NPR’s two clients.
       
      In this case, the two Plaintiffs were sexually abused as children by a member of the Jehovah’s Witnesses. The Elders in the local Jehovah’s Witness congregation in Thompson Falls, Montana were aware of the abuse and failed to report it to the police, choosing instead to handle the reports and investigations internally pursuant to Jehovah’s Witness guidelines. Their decision not to report the abuse to authorities allowed the perpetrator to remain in the congregation and continue to abuse one of the Plaintiffs.
       
      Throughout this case, and similar childhood sexual abuse cases across the country, the Jehovah’s Witnesses have refused to produce documents related to their internal handling of reports of sexual abuse and related investigations and disciplinary actions claiming that the information is protected by the clergy-penitent privilege and the First Amendment to the United States Constitution.
       
      Through briefing to the court, NPR convinced the Judge that Defendants’ privilege claims were unsupported and improper under the law. The Court agreed that Defendants could not blanket everything related to their investigations in secrecy and that they must turn it over to the Plaintiffs. Often, this is the very evidence that can win or lose a case like this against a religious institution.
       
      The case of Nunez, et al. v. Watchtower Bible & Tract Society of New York, et al.  is set to go to trial in September of 2018.
      The plaintiffs in this case are represented by NPR partner D. Neil Smith and associate Ross E. Leonoudakis.
       
      ----------------------------------------------------------
      A Jury of 12 held in public view ... or a tribunal of three held in complete secrecy.
      Which would YOU choose,  to get Justice?
       
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