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Jehovah's Witnesses 'failed to act' over sex abuse claims


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7 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Christians can be exploited by abusers, even manipulated. This goes for anyone who is unequipped to deal with the situation itself, and or adhere to solutions.

This would only confirm that WTJWorg's claims, that GB and the elders are guided by a holy spirit that should reveal all "satanic traps" to them, are empty. So, JW members are not (fully) equipped with “spiritual armor” from Ephesians 6, but equipped with many empty doctrines.

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17 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

This would only confirm that WTJWorg's claims, that GB and the elders are guided by a holy spirit that should reveal all "satanic traps" to them, are empty. So, JW members are not (fully) equipped with “spiritual armor” from Ephesians 6, but equipped with many empty doctrines.

Yes Srecko, hence I truly believe that an organisation needs to be guided by True Anointed ones that are inspired by God's Holy Spirit through Christ. 

But JWs here don't believe in such things ever happening. They don't believe that God can have a clean organisation. 

JWs here have no true faith in God at all. Their faith is only in the things seen, such as the GB, Warwick and Ramapo. They have proven that they cannot handle spiritual matters. 

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17 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

That was why I gave you information on solutions which you ignored at the time.

Every good information and action should be supported. If the methods you use are successful, you might be able to send information about it to WTJWorg. It may help them improve their CSA policy.

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10 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

This would only confirm that WTJWorg's claims, that GB and the elders are guided by a holy spirit that should reveal all "satanic traps" to them, are empty. So, JW members are not (fully) equipped with “spiritual armor” from Ephesians 6, but equipped with many empty doctrines.

Concerning the latter statement,

If you say it as this, then let me ask you this: how do you detect abuse in an institutional setting based off of from one Red Flag, granted you want to go down that route.

This has nothing to do with spiritual armor to satanic traps, it is in regards of what an abuser can do granted that sin is something that came into this world.

So I leave you with the question of child on child abuse. This is why in the other thread it was pointed out that some do not really fight CSA and have no idea of what is in this realm vs those who do fight against it.

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6 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Yes Srecko, hence I truly believe that an organisation needs to be guided by True Anointed ones that are inspired by God's Holy Spirit through Christ. 

Depends if the people in question are well equipped. Remember, even True Christians had issues back in ancient times, some of which harm them and they recover, later on another harming, and they recover.

6 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

But JWs here don't believe in such things ever happening. They don't believe that God can have a clean organisation. 

Not all of them are like this, some know. I mentioned the Arabic UK JW who spoke up on this and the Swahilis whoa re capable due to how their culture is. In general there are two factions, those who know how to fight CSA and those who do not, doesn't matter the sex, the race, be it an American or a British person, those 2 factions stand, and one of them generally creates even more problems regarding CSA which results in an increase of abusers coming around and more people abused, this excludes the situation with Authoritarianism whereas CSA is rampant and cannot be contained.

It is not a matter of cleaning the congregation itself, but prevention. You cannot 100% clean out child abuse, and this ahs been mentioned to you many, many times. You can prevent some cases if you are aware of red flags, even the most subtle ones. I pointed them all out before, and I believe I was the only one to have mentioned them, granted I know how crazy CSA is in several aspects.

6 hours ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

JWs here have no true faith in God at all. Their faith is only in the things seen, such as the GB, Warwick and Ramapo. They have proven that they cannot handle spiritual matters. 

How can you said that about all of them when that statement isn't true concerning faith? Not all of them are the exact, likewise to how the people who are of London who were in the wrong to do the same thing causing the fights concerning CSA and grooming.

That being said, this has nothing to do with spiritual matters, but the mindset of abusers who are the proponent of CSA itself.

Again, many people, not all, are unaware, this includes some JWs, and the same can be said about some people here who speak on CSA but do not know much, thus falling into the bystander syndrome effect. Such persons do not realize that mindset increases the chances in some cases an abuser has access to a child. Outside of religion it is even more difficult for some.

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13 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

This is why in the other thread it was pointed out that some do not really fight CSA and have no idea of what is in this realm vs those who do fight against it.

If you start fighting against things in the world then where do you stop that fight ? 

The idea of the JW religion is to be 'No Part of the World'.  And the point of condemning the JW Org is because they pretend to be so different but are really just as bad as all the others.

And it seems that you also lack faith. In fact it is difficult to know what you believe really.  You seem to be involved in this world which Jesus said he was no part of. 

 

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38 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Every good information and action should be supported.

But you shot down my solutions of which I pulled from CSA prevention, even laughed at it. Elsewhere you attest to those attempting to help as a form of activism when in reality the chosen action was not.

39 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

If the methods you use are successful, you might be able to send information about it to WTJWorg.

CSA prevention put these out for a reason. Someone else cited even the JWs professed those same solutions, but it is a matter of applying. Some JWs suffer from bystander syndromes in connection to some not being aware, thus putting them in the targeting position of an abuser, i.e. Fremont was not able to deal with the abuser and fell for the common trap of an abuser whereas the Swahilis effective shut things down on an abuser, the edge they have is not just applying solutions, but additional advantages due to the culture they follow.

41 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

It may help them improve their CSA policy.

Again, the point made, even CSA prevention states this, it is a matter of application. If the person is not under the effect of Bystander syndrome regarding CSA, they can apply these solutions to protect their child and the children in their community. Trying to get someone to read and apply solutions is like getting them to read a manual.

If people can do this, they would easily see Red Flags.

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5 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

If you start fighting against things in the world then where do you stop that fight ? 

As I told you many times, the price we pay for the imperfection of sin, in fact, this was the very first thing I told you when you went by 4Jah2me and prior as JB and that time Anna gave you some insight also. Therefore, you, as a Christian, would know that sin runs rampant in the world and it effects everyone directly and indirectly, even JWs. The fight stops when the Christ returns, this has been said countless times, to you, even Srecko, hence the thread I linked with the solutions from CSA prevention, as is with Bible base information. Only then all sin, including child abuse, be it violence, sex, or mental, will cease. With that in might, the fight needs to be done, for it is not only the fight to profess Scripture that is being done, i.e. the fight takes place in the schools, the churches, even online on social media, the right way.

On 6/3/2020 at 10:14 AM, Space Merchant said:

Sadly, all bad things of this world is the price we pay for due to imperfection, as bad things happen to every man, woman and child, all we can do is prevent some instances, we cannot stop all of them; reach one, teach one, save one.

I mean, this should have been clear from the very first mention of CSA in the thread where many such as myself, Anna, etc. were involved.

That said, all men are born of sin, Edenic Ancestral Sin which was the original passed on to all of us.

19 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

The idea of the JW religion is to be 'No Part of the World'. 

I wouldn't call it an idea, we talked about Restorationist before, mainly the ones who came out of the Great Awakening years ago, they're no part of the world.

20 minutes ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

And the point of condemning the JW Org is because they pretend to be so different but are really just as bad as all the others.

Because they are different. If they weren't out of the Great Awakening, then a case can be made. The JWs case is that regarding abusers, if the JW is unaware and is under bystander syndrome, they cannot detect Red Flags given by an abuser, which we saw in the Fremont Case. You can see the Fremont JW church leaders genuinely believed in the abuser's testimony, granted he confessed to his sin, seeking both forgiveness and repentance, which enabled the Forgiveness of Sin exploit used on the JWs because they, as with many Christians believe a sinner who is truly repented can come back to the community itself, but in the mind of the abuser, who knows he cannot control his urges would eventually act again after time has past, which brings us to Conti. If we have to look at the Laws in Fremont, the abuser indirectly exploited that in a way because it isn't mandatory to report abuse in that part of CA, therefore, the JWs were not able to do much, as with the household, where the abuse originated from, for all abuse, the majority, starts in the home. This can also be catastrophic if false allegations are involved, as in relation to CSA, it resulted in ruination and a lot of damage, and spread of misinformation at times.

If anything, people need to know Red Flags, hence the reason why what Srecko coined, I asked him the question directly, which seems to be a call back to what Evo said in his thread.

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    • Joshua 2 ---> 1 Now after the death of Moses the servant of the Lord it came to pass, that the Lord spake unto Joshua the son of Nun, Moses' minister, saying, 2 Moses my servant is dead; now therefore arise, go over this Jordan, thou, and all this people, unto the land which I do give to them, even to the children of Israel. 3 Every place that the sole of your foot shall tread upon, that have I given unto you, as I said unto Moses. 4 From the wilderness and this Lebanon even unto the great river, the river Euphrates, all the land of the Hittites, and unto the great sea toward the going down of the sun, shall be your coast. 5 There shall not any man be able to stand before thee all the days of thy life: as I was with Moses, so I will be with thee: I will not fail thee, nor forsake thee. 6 Be strong and of a good courage: for unto this people shalt thou divide for an inheritance the land, which I sware unto their fathers to give them. 7 Only be thou strong and very courageous, that thou mayest observe to do according to all the law, which Moses my servant commanded thee: turn not from it to the right hand or to the left, that thou mayest prosper withersoever thou goest. 8 This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success. 9 Have not I commanded thee? Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee whithersoever thou goest. 10 Then Joshua commanded the officers of the people, saying, 11 Pass through the host, and command the people, saying, Prepare you victuals; for within three days ye shall pass over this Jordan, to go in to possess the land, which the Lord your God giveth you to possess it. 12 And to the Reubenites, and to the Gadites, and to half the tribe of Manasseh, spake Joshua, saying, 13 Remember the word which Moses the servant of the Lord commanded you, saying, The Lord your God hath given you rest, and hath given you this land. 14 Your wives, your little ones, and your cattle, shall remain in the land which Moses gave you on this side Jordan; but ye shall pass before your brethren armed, all the mighty men of valour, and help them; 15 Until the Lord have given your brethren rest, as he hath given you, and they also have possessed the land which the Lord your God giveth them: then ye shall return unto the land of your possession, and enjoy it, which Moses the Lord's servant gave you on this side Jordan toward the sunrising. 16 And they answered Joshua, saying, All that thou commandest us we will do, and whithersoever thou sendest us, we will go. 17 According as we hearkened unto Moses in all things, so will we hearken unto thee: only the Lord thy God be with thee, as he was with Moses. 18 Whosoever he be that doth rebel against thy commandment, and will not hearken unto thy words in all that thou commandest him, he shall be put to death: only be strong and of a good courage.
    • 6 Now Jericho was straitly shut up because of the children of Israel: none went out, and none came in. 2 And the Lord said unto Joshua, See, I have given into thine hand Jericho, and the king thereof, and the mighty men of valour. 3 And ye shall compass the city, all ye men of war, and go round about the city once. Thus shalt thou do six days. 4 And seven priests shall bear before the ark seven trumpets of rams' horns: and the seventh day ye shall compass the city seven times, and the priests shall blow with the trumpets. 5 And it shall come to pass, that when they make a long blast with the ram's horn, and when ye hear the sound of the trumpet, all the people shall shout with a great shout; and the wall of the city shall fall down flat, and the people shall ascend up every man straight before him. 6 And Joshua the son of Nun called the priests, and said unto them, Take up the ark of the covenant, and let seven priests bear seven trumpets of rams' horns before the ark of the Lord. 7 And he said unto the people, Pass on, and compass the city, and let him that is armed pass on before the ark of the Lord. 8 And it came to pass, when Joshua had spoken unto the people, that the seven priests bearing the seven trumpets of rams' horns passed on before the Lord, and blew with the trumpets: and the ark of the covenant of the Lord followed them. 9 And the armed men went before the priests that blew with the trumpets, and the rereward came after the ark, the priests going on, and blowing with the trumpets. 10 And Joshua had commanded the people, saying, Ye shall not shout, nor make any noise with your voice, neither shall any word proceed out of your mouth, until the day I bid you shout; then shall ye shout. 11 So the ark of the Lord compassed the city, going about it once: and they came into the camp, and lodged in the camp. 12 And Joshua rose early in the morning, and the priests took up the ark of the Lord. 13 And seven priests bearing seven trumpets of rams' horns before the ark of the Lord went on continually, and blew with the trumpets: and the armed men went before them; but the rereward came after the ark of the Lord, the priests going on, and blowing with the trumpets. 14 And the second day they compassed the city once, and returned into the camp: so they did six days. 15 And it came to pass on the seventh day, that they rose early about the dawning of the day, and compassed the city after the same manner seven times: only on that day they compassed the city seven times. 16 And it came to pass at the seventh time, when the priests blew with the trumpets, Joshua said unto the people, Shout; for the Lord hath given you the city. 17 And the city shall be accursed, even it, and all that are therein, to the Lord: only Rahab the harlot shall live, she and all that are with her in the house, because she hid the messengers that we sent. 18 And ye, in any wise keep yourselves from the accursed thing, lest ye make yourselves accursed, when ye take of the accursed thing, and make the camp of Israel a curse, and trouble it. 19 But all the silver, and gold, and vessels of brass and iron, are consecrated unto the Lord: they shall come into the treasury of the Lord. 20 So the people shouted when the priests blew with the trumpets: and it came to pass, when the people heard the sound of the trumpet, and the people shouted with a great shout, that the wall fell down flat, so that the people went up into the city, every man straight before him, and they took the city. 21 And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword. 22 But Joshua had said unto the two men that had spied out the country, Go into the harlot's house, and bring out thence the woman, and all that she hath, as ye sware unto her. 23 And the young men that were spies went in, and brought out Rahab, and her father, and her mother, and her brethren, and all that she had; and they brought out all her kindred, and left them without the camp of Israel. 24 And they burnt the city with fire, and all that was therein: only the silver, and the gold, and the vessels of brass and of iron, they put into the treasury of the house of the Lord. 25 And Joshua saved Rahab the harlot alive, and her father's household, and all that she had; and she dwelleth in Israel even unto this day; because she hid the messengers, which Joshua sent to spy out Jericho. 26 And Joshua adjured them at that time, saying, Cursed be the man before the Lord, that riseth up and buildeth this city Jericho: he shall lay the foundation thereof in his firstborn, and in his youngest son shall he set up the gates of it. 27 So the Lord was with Joshua; and his fame was noised throughout all the country.
    • As referenced in the Bible Book of Joshua
    • 19 And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground; 2 And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night. 3 And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat. 4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: 5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them. 6 And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, 7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. 8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof. 9 And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door. 10 But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door. 11 And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door. 12 And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place: 13 For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the Lord; and the Lord hath sent us to destroy it. 14 And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this place; for the Lord will destroy this city. But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons in law. 15 And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city. 16 And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the Lord being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city. 17 And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life; look not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed. 18 And Lot said unto them, Oh, not so, my Lord: 19 Behold now, thy servant hath found grace in thy sight, and thou hast magnified thy mercy, which thou hast shewed unto me in saving my life; and I cannot escape to the mountain, lest some evil take me, and I die: 20 Behold now, this city is near to flee unto, and it is a little one: Oh, let me escape thither, (is it not a little one?) and my soul shall live. 21 And he said unto him, See, I have accepted thee concerning this thing also, that I will not overthrow this city, for the which thou hast spoken. 22 Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do anything till thou be come thither. Therefore the name of the city was called Zoar. 23 The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar. 24 Then the Lord rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven; 25 And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground. 26 But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt. 27 And Abraham gat up early in the morning to the place where he stood before the Lord: 28 And he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of the plain, and beheld, and, lo, the smoke of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace. 29 And it came to pass, when God destroyed the cities of the plain, that God remembered Abraham, and sent Lot out of the midst of the overthrow, when he overthrew the cities in the which Lot dwelt. 30 And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters. 31 And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth: 32 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. 33 And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose. 34 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. 35 And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose. 36 Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father. 37 And the first born bare a son, and called his name Moab: the same is the father of the Moabites unto this day. 38 And the younger, she also bare a son, and called his name Benammi: the same is the father of the children of Ammon unto this day.
    • 3 Now Jehoram the son of Ahab began to reign over Israel in Samaria the eighteenth year of Jehoshaphat king of Judah, and reigned twelve years. 2 And he wrought evil in the sight of the Lord; but not like his father, and like his mother: for he put away the image of Baal that his father had made. 3 Nevertheless he cleaved unto the sins of Jeroboam the son of Nebat, which made Israel to sin; he departed not therefrom. 4 And Mesha king of Moab was a sheepmaster, and rendered unto the king of Israel an hundred thousand lambs, and an hundred thousand rams, with the wool. 5 But it came to pass, when Ahab was dead, that the king of Moab rebelled against the king of Israel. 6 And king Jehoram went out of Samaria the same time, and numbered all Israel. 7 And he went and sent to Jehoshaphat the king of Judah, saying, The king of Moab hath rebelled against me: wilt thou go with me against Moab to battle? And he said, I will go up: I am as thou art, my people as thy people, and my horses as thy horses. 8 And he said, Which way shall we go up? And he answered, The way through the wilderness of Edom. 9 So the king of Israel went, and the king of Judah, and the king of Edom: and they fetched a compass of seven days' journey: and there was no water for the host, and for the cattle that followed them. 10 And the king of Israel said, Alas! that the Lord hath called these three kings together, to deliver them into the hand of Moab! 11 But Jehoshaphat said, Is there not here a prophet of the Lord, that we may enquire of the Lord by him? And one of the king of Israel's servants answered and said, Here is Elisha the son of Shaphat, which poured water on the hands of Elijah. 12 And Jehoshaphat said, The word of the Lord is with him. So the king of Israel and Jehoshaphat and the king of Edom went down to him. 13 And Elisha said unto the king of Israel, What have I to do with thee? get thee to the prophets of thy father, and to the prophets of thy mother. And the king of Israel said unto him, Nay: for the Lord hath called these three kings together, to deliver them into the hand of Moab. 14 And Elisha said, As the Lord of hosts liveth, before whom I stand, surely, were it not that I regard the presence of Jehoshaphat the king of Judah, I would not look toward thee, nor see thee. 15 But now bring me a minstrel. And it came to pass, when the minstrel played, that the hand of the Lord came upon him. 16 And he said, Thus saith the Lord, Make this valley full of ditches. 17 For thus saith the Lord, Ye shall not see wind, neither shall ye see rain; yet that valley shall be filled with water, that ye may drink, both ye, and your cattle, and your beasts. 18 And this is but a light thing in the sight of the Lord: he will deliver the Moabites also into your hand. 19 And ye shall smite every fenced city, and every choice city, and shall fell every good tree, and stop all wells of water, and mar every good piece of land with stones. 20 And it came to pass in the morning, when the meat offering was offered, that, behold, there came water by the way of Edom, and the country was filled with water. 21 And when all the Moabites heard that the kings were come up to fight against them, they gathered all that were able to put on armour, and upward, and stood in the border. 22 And they rose up early in the morning, and the sun shone upon the water, and the Moabites saw the water on the other side as red as blood: 23 And they said, This is blood: the kings are surely slain, and they have smitten one another: now therefore, Moab, to the spoil. 24 And when they came to the camp of Israel, the Israelites rose up and smote the Moabites, so that they fled before them: but they went forward smiting the Moabites, even in their country. 25 And they beat down the cities, and on every good piece of land cast every man his stone, and filled it; and they stopped all the wells of water, and felled all the good trees: only in Kirharaseth left they the stones thereof; howbeit the slingers went about it, and smote it. 26 And when the king of Moab saw that the battle was too sore for him, he took with him seven hundred men that drew swords, to break through even unto the king of Edom: but they could not. 27 Then he took his eldest son that should have reigned in his stead, and offered him for a burnt offering upon the wall. And there was great indignation against Israel: and they departed from him, and returned to their own land.
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