Jehovah's Witnesses 'failed to act' over sex abuse claims

[Space Merchant]

7 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

I don't remember saying anything like that. But one course for elders (video can be found on YT) provided instructions for destroying private elders ’notes and destroying documentation that could compromise WTJWorg Corporation and other companies and allow lawsuits and damages for the JW Organization.

Then why attest to the other notation of it being hidden if on the other side of the spectrum, destroyed? I recall the video, however, there wasn't a full video, therefore, a small narrative can take everything out of context. More so, this was by word of mouth of one church elder, who took inaction.

That being said, as mentioned in the other thread, the ability to take action has nothing to do with activistism. Child abuse prevention is very clear.

 

[Srecko Sostar]

8 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

Then why attest to the other notation of it being hidden if on the other side of the spectrum, destroyed?

When someone destroys evidence (documentation) from which misconduct/incorrect treatment can be seen, then destroying evidence is tantamount to concealing/hiding evidence. Because, both, destroying and hiding evidence does not contribute to improving the CSA prevention and punishment of those who break the law. It just means more harm to crime victims. Past, present and future victims.

 

[Srecko Sostar]

16 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

This - https://revealnews.org/article/california-court-guts-child-abuse-ruling-against-jehovahs-witnesses/

Now, three years later, an appeals court has eroded her courtroom victory even further by ruling that the leadership of the Jehovah’s Witnesses had no duty to warn congregants that a confessed child molester was one of their own. As a result, judges eliminated the punitive damages in the case. Conti still stands to receive $2.8 million.

And GB welcomed that by both hands? How about WTJWorg publications and Bible verses on issue that, in fact, including same principle. GB and JW people are so concern about warning "wicked people about Armagedon" but failed to warn own people, own members about evil persons inside congregation. What absurdity! What hypocrisy! What a shameful behavior!

Can You Do More to Warn Others?   

JESUS WAS NEVER OFF DUTY

Jesus’ example is noteworthy in that he never considered himself to be off duty. He preached to everyone he encountered, be it a tax collector he passed on the road or a woman he met at a well during a midday pause. (Luke 19:1-5; John 4:5-10, 21-24) Even when he set aside time to relax, Jesus ungrudgingly abandoned his plans in order to teach others. Compassion for his neighbors caused him to offer more than a token witness. (Mark 6:30-34) How is Jesus’ sense of urgency being imitated today? - https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/w20131015/do-more-to-warn-others/

 

The Time for a Watchman like Ezekiel

This anointed class has acted on what Jehovah said to Ezekiel with these words: “Son of man, a watchman is what I have made you to the house of Israel, and you must hear from my mouth speech and you must warn them from me. When I say to someone wicked, ‘You will positively die,’ and you do not actually warn him and speak in order to warn the wicked one from his wicked way to preserve him alive, he being wicked, in his error he will die, but his blood I shall ask back from your own hand.”—Ezek. 3:17, 18. -https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1981088?q=duty+to+warn&p=doc

 

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

17 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Now, three years later, an appeals court has eroded her courtroom victory even further by ruling that the leadership of the Jehovah’s Witnesses had no duty to warn congregants that a confessed child molester was one of their own.

So, 'appeals court'. That means that the GB and / or their Lawyers do not want justice to be done. They do not want to follow Christ's footsteps in showing mercy.  They do not want to 'go the extra mile'. The GB.

And this 'American' law, encouraging Pedophilia. This case proves that the congregation Elders knew that the man was a Pedophile, but they did NOT warn the congregation. 

Any JW that can live with this obviously has no Christian conscience.  We are back to 'Collateral Damage',  and all for the sake of the idol, the JW Org and it's GB 

[Space Merchant]

On 9/11/2021 at 12:58 AM, Srecko Sostar said:

When someone destroys evidence (documentation) from which misconduct/incorrect treatment can be seen, then destroying evidence is tantamount to concealing/hiding evidence. Because, both, destroying and hiding evidence does not contribute to improving the CSA prevention and punishment of those who break the law. It just means more harm to crime victims. Past, present and future victims.

Clearly it does not. Hence why the claim of destroying evidence makes no sense, if anything information is held, in some cases be it institution or law, it is private mainly due to protection to a degree.

Harm can be reduced, but not many has gone down that route. As for the other bit, Secular law in regards to where they are in the land and internal investigation. If not them, others who are known are capable for reporting. When it comes to internal investigations, it can often be handled by the party itself, be it fi the case of abuse is true or not, even suspected. This apply not only to institutions but cooperate as well regarding matters of abuse.

This also proves the point I made many times concerning solutions for those who know and those who do not. One key factor, which, ironically you didn't point out in the article was the focus of supervision. CSA prevention services mainly in some institutions often put emphasis on such.

I remember telling you before, if you are unaware, you wouldn't be able to handle a legitimate abuser, or fight them to some degree, hence, this easily prompts the bystander syndrome.

That being said, there is no issue with internal investigations, but not being properly equipped can cause a risk vs benefit type situation.

https://www.justice.gov/jm/jm-4-4000-commercial-litigation#4-4.112

[Space Merchant]

On 9/11/2021 at 1:21 PM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

And this 'American' law, encouraging Pedophilia. This case proves that the congregation Elders knew that the man was a Pedophile, but they did NOT warn the congregation. 

Depends on which Law you are referring to. America's Justice System is both a Double Standard as well as a Doubled Edged Sword, therefore, rules can be shuffled. It also depends on which state an action or a crime is committed, one of the reasons why pedophiles tend to move around much if they can't gain access to children in an institution and or a neighborhood that is well connected. In regards to the article in question.

The thing with California, is child abuse reporting isn't mandatory to a degree, however, the right of reporting is left in the hands of those involved should they go down that route, be it the church elders themselves, if not them, someone else, perhaps other blood relatives who may be aware, granted, as pointed out before, blood relatives are the primary suspects when it comes to abuse, and they always start with their own before anyone else. And this church of the JWs specifically fell into the Forgiveness of Sin Exploit mostly used by abusers, hence Conti's situation. Therefore, it makes that church congregation, at that time, gullible and shows they didn't know how to combat the problem.

When it comes to Internal Investigation, in their case in Fremont, they mostly felt they had the situation under control, granted, the abuser, Kendrick, used the most used trick in the book highlighted in red.

On 9/11/2021 at 1:21 PM, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Any JW that can live with this obviously has no Christian conscience.  We are back to 'Collateral Damage',  and all for the sake of the idol, the JW Org and it's GB 

I would not say anything. This goes for everyone else. It comes down if solutions are applied or not. If you owned a church, you wouldn't know who among the congregants is a legitimate abuser, and at times a false accusation can be far worse.

Pedophilia is a plague, a problem, and those unaware or suffer from Bystander Syndrome are often used as tools by the abuser.

This is why I do what I do, as with many Truthers, however, the problem we face are Abusers of a ridiculously high status, hence why a counter hit to such ones is solutions. As of recent, an example, now even the FBI, possibly a branch of it, is in subjected to improperly dealing with a pedophile in sports and academics. FBI tends to be those of a higher status as a group, but cannot control those under it, even if regulations are put in place.

That being said, in the JWs case, some of them, they need to adhere to aid solutions and not have the bystander syndrome mindset, this goes for even ExJWs as well for this led to a few of them defending a child groomer.

Speaking of American laws, there are some that are, damning, per say, concerning children that should any abuser, even a JW abuser, were to somehow get involved with it, it would make your head spin. One of the reasons why here in the US, people see the South, as well as the Southwest, as weird.

[Pudgy]

The people in the south United States, which really is the southeast United States, are definitely weird.

The people in the south United States, which really is the southeast United States, are definitely weird.

Wealth is determined by how many cars you have up on cement blocks in your front yard and how many dogs you have under your front porch.

and, if you go to a restaurant and order a tea, what you’ll get is iced sweet tea, where sugar is the main ingredient and tea and water are the second ingredient.

[Srecko Sostar]

3 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

When it comes to internal investigations, it can often be handled by the party itself, be it fi the case of abuse is true or not, even suspected.

A saying from our region says: The judge sues, the judge judges. This saying is used when one wants to say that there is no justice, that everything depends on the will of the one who has power.

It is, also, often said that if you want to obscure things you need to set up a Commission to investigate something. The Commission whose members were elected and appointed by powerful people who have no interest in changing anything will receive instructions in which direction they should conduct the investigation.

3 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

One key factor, which, ironically you didn't point out in the article was the focus of supervision. CSA prevention services mainly in some institutions often put emphasis on such.

Do you refer to this? 

In the Conti case, the panel upheld the lower court’s ruling that the Watchtower and elders in the North Fremont congregation failed to supervise Kendrick when he preached door to door in the community, a practice Jehovah’s Witnesses call field service.

According to Conti, the North Fremont elders would group her with Kendrick for long afternoons of field service. She says he used those opportunities to take her to his house and sexually abuse her.

“While the Congregation may not have been able to police Kendrick’s behavior after scheduled field service was over, it could have controlled his access to Conti during the field service,” the judges wrote Monday.

What kind of irony are you talking about that I caused it?

3 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

That being said, there is no issue with internal investigations, but not being properly equipped can cause a risk vs benefit type situation.

By this you prove my comment. Thanks.

[Patiently waiting for Truth]

17 hours ago, Space Merchant said:

And this church of the JWs specifically fell into the Forgiveness of Sin Exploit mostly used by abusers

Forgiveness of Sin is one thing. But the Elders cannot 'forgive' breaking the law. It is outside of their 'authority' to do so. 

A person could be forgiven by God for Sin, but should still serve the prison sentence for the Crime. 

Sin is spiritual. Crime is physical. God allows those 'superior authorities' / governments / legal bodies, to be in place to deal with Crime. Why would any Christian not  want to serve God properly by hiding criminals.

[Space Merchant]

1 hour ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Forgiveness of Sin is one thing. But the Elders cannot 'forgive' breaking the law. It is outside of their 'authority' to do so. 

Seems you are unaware of Forgiveness of Sin as an exploit. When it comes to child abuse, be it sex or violence related, this is exploit heavily, mainly if the abuser seeks another potential victim, which was the case with the article linked. The Law does not apply here, and in the Jehovah's Witnesses' case, they fell into this category, hence their Fremont Church and the situation that unfolded years ago. Someone in the church when it comes to these situation are often times end up as a puppet by the hands of the abuser, granted, he was back in the church, and Conti became victim afterwards, for one to be reinstated even by means of a restriction when forgiveness and acts of repentance was faked only to commit another action.

That said, this exploit is weaponized by pedophiles in nearly all communities, in religion alone, it focuses on the acts of forgiveness/repentance. It is similar to Gang Stalking in Churches or any Religious Institution.

You can narrowly detect this if you know how to see red flags.

1 hour ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

A person could be forgiven by God for Sin, but should still serve the prison sentence for the Crime. 

You're still undermining the exploit which does not get them prison time in most cases. This is why religious institutions and schools are main targets.

1 hour ago, Patiently waiting for Truth said:

Sin is spiritual. Crime is physical. God allows those 'superior authorities' / governments / legal bodies, to be in place to deal with Crime. Why would any Christian not  want to serve God properly by hiding criminals.

Christians can be exploited by abusers, even manipulated. This goes for anyone who is unequipped to deal with the situation itself, and or adhere to solutions.

Tragic yes, but people need to see when it comes to pedophiles, they can be masters of manipulation to those who are unaware, mainly due to the fact if their end goal is a sick one. For Fremont JWs, they ultimately fell for the trap and assume he was truly repented, mainly due to the given testimony. Likewise with anyone else in a similar situation.

That being said, the more wicked the person, the more deceptive they can be.

[Space Merchant]

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

A saying from our region says: The judge sues, the judge judges. This saying is used when one wants to say that there is no justice, that everything depends on the will of the one who has power.

Unfortunately the United States and the United Kingdom differs in various laws and regulations. Judges and or the court system is both a double edged sword and a double standard.

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Do you refer to this? 

In the Conti case, the panel upheld the lower court’s ruling that the Watchtower and elders in the North Fremont congregation failed to supervise Kendrick when he preached door to door in the community, a practice Jehovah’s Witnesses call field service.

Yes. In the article I've linked.

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

According to Conti, the North Fremont elders would group her with Kendrick for long afternoons of field service. She says he used those opportunities to take her to his house and sexually abuse her.

Also from the article and this took place after testimony, hence the exploit used by the abuser. Essentially such a tactic entraps people, even the JWs in Fremont, who clearly didn't see this Red Flag.

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

What kind of irony are you talking about that I caused it?

The irony was the fact you didn't mentioned that part of the article in relation to your latter statement. That is where the irony is. Hence why I brought up supervision, and their failure to do so.

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

By this you prove my comment. Thanks.

Wasn't that an issue in your other remarks of child abuse in the JW churches? That was why I gave you information on solutions which you ignored at the time. So the fact that the article of which JWI forked for me proves the case here. 

That being said, this is why some of us actually take action, for we believe in the reaching out to teach method which is working. You should do the same. But as pointed out elsewhere, not everyone is up to par on this, as with some here.

[Space Merchant]

5 hours ago, Pudgy said:

The people in the south United States, which really is the southeast United States, are definitely weird.

Like good old Florida. A lot of craziness there. Since we are talking about child abuse, sadly, child on child abuse is committed there as with human trafficking concerning children whereas the guardians, parents are giving their children to people to be abused or violently attacked. It won't be a surprise if the one law that angered many people were to be applied in Florida.

6 hours ago, Pudgy said:

Wealth is determined by how many cars you have up on cement blocks in your front yard and how many dogs you have under your front porch.

Yep. May be different now with inflation, rise in crime and the social credit that is speculated to come.

That being said, the biggest problem concerning child abuse, with everyone, even JWs, is that they do not see the Red Flags, one of them is the abusers being able to manipulate. This is why I mentioned the Arabic JW, the person I learnt from about the Swahili JWs in the States who can detect Red Flags and take action. Such ones also suffer from bystander syndrome in the face of a criminal act as well, hence the exploits mentioned above, which can be used easily so that the abuser can gain access to more children. even in the schools, only this time around, children do not run into abusers as much, but some material now is deemed as child abuse in relation to sex related nonsense deem brazen, for outside of pedophilia, Red Flags regarding this people do not see, hence the problem with higher education and the institutions.