Child Sexual Abuse UK

[TrueTomHarley]

7 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

.... for pedophilia, substitute the phrase "FIRST DEGREE MURDER",  and see if your argument still makes sense.

If it does, you are OK.

If it does NOT .. there are flaws in the moral high ground attempted ... by requiring a HIGHER moral high ground of others.

Go ahead, be a sport.... try it out!

I will not, for I can already spot a dissimilarity. Pedophile victims survive. First Degree Murder victims do not.

Moreover, pedophile victims frequently recover. This is especially true when we are dealing with the non-violent, non-rape pedophilia which hysterical persons lump all together as one with the more infrequent predator sort.

Ancient Greece, as you well know, with all of your 'founding father' comments, is regarded as the cradle of Western civilization,  the first glimmerings of democracy. The sexual abuse of children was a staple of life among those perverts. Had it been First Degree Murder, instead, there would be no Greece and hence no Western civilization deriving from it.

[JW Insider]

34 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Why would not autism be counted as a modern day plague? 

I agree completely. I have no doubt that such things and many more that we never thought of before will plague mankind. My point, however, is that there have been certain types of plagues and diseases that mankind thought they could do nothing about. Then some people start putting two and two together and realizing that some of these things are based on "cause and effect." When enough of these realizations come together, the effect can be unexpectedly positive.

I think we have the entire world population as evidence of this. Populations of anything under normal circumstances without interference grow on a curve, something like the exponential curve you'd get if you graphed the x² function. Yet, for thousands of years the population grew in a more subdued linear fashion, effectively flat, until suddenly in the last 100+ years, the growth shot up like the shape of a hockey stick. The largest single factors include "soap & clean water" and a better understanding of cause and effect where disease and plague comes along. Granted there were also wars in China and around the world that killed hundreds of millions in the several hundred years prior to 1919, but there have been huge death tolls in wars since 1919, too. The major explanation, therefore, is that something was done about the problems of plagues and disease through human understanding.

For this reason, I thought it unwise to appear to be dismissing all the attempts to try to do something about the worldwide plague of child sexual abuse, just because we expect it to get worse. The Catholic Church has held internal conferences and even invited people of other religions to help them to try to brainstorm ideas that can help. The judge, McClellan, of the ARC has made suggestions to the Catholic Church and has looked for ways to get some good ideas implemented while accommodating the process structures of the religions and institutions he has now worked with. If a religious institution appears to have a problem admitting that they have a problem, or does not appear to want to accept help or does not wish to provide suggestions to give help to other institutions based on its own experiences, I think this makes that institution look worse than it really is.

[Evacuated]

57 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

I thought it unwise to appear to be dismissing all the attempts to try to do something about the worldwide plague of child sexual abuse

Let's hope that no one here even inadvertently gives that impression.

57 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

The Catholic Church has held internal conferences and even invited people of other religions to help them to try to brainstorm ideas that can help.

How about completely abolishing unscriptural celibacy requirements for starters?

57 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

If a religious institution appears to have a problem admitting that they have a problem,

with

57 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

the worldwide plague of child sexual abuse,

This is interesting. It is indeed a worldwide plague. So anyone, institution or individual, denying this fact is really deluded. Reminds me of Chechnya’s leader, Ramzan Kadyrov, who denies that persecution of gay men is taking place in Chechnya, saying there are no gay men living in the republic to be persecuted.

Noticeable too is the institutional pride that serves as an obstacle to combatting the plague even if recognised, exemplified in such responses as "other institutions have a worse record than ours" or "our awareness is higher, or policy is better, than theirs". Meanwhile the problem remains, still affecting all, regardless.

So is the crime the plague? Or is it the criminal?, or are these just symptoms of something deeper?

To be continued.....(I'm sure)

[TrueTomHarley]

Back when national policies elevated the pursuit of cheap oil sometimes over the interests of ordinary people, a certain human rights person pushed back. "We can always get more oil," he said."but human lives are irreplaceable." This prompted a pragmatist to observe that, really, it was just the opposite. Oil was in finite supply. People were not. 

It is that way with the pedophile endemic. It pushes emotional buttons to the extent that even rational people lose it. Even JTR, rationalism personified in his own eyes, likens child sexual abuse to first degree murder. He has picked one of the few comparisons he could pick that is not valid. Why doesn't he liken first degree murder to terrorism, for example, which is valid? Or to today's nuclear foreplay between nations? Or to the economic system that enriches a thimbleful and drives the vast majority into poverty? Everyone tells us that grinding poverty triggers much violence.

I resist accepting pedophilia as the vilest of all evils. It has no end of worthy competitors, for this system of things is not exactly a romp in the park. However, it IS easy to get one's head around. I suspect that accounts for much of it's status as #1 Evil. "We may not be able to do anything about terrorism, or nuclear foreplay, or economic theivery," people say, "but by God, we can stop people molesting our kids!" But, in fact, they can't even do that. I wish them well in trying. I truly do. It's a noble cause. But so far it has proven to be like shining a light on roaches. They don't cease being roaches by doing that. They just go somewhere else. 

So, while the sexual abuse of children is indeed a great evil, it is just one of many, and I slam back with vigor those who use it in an attempt to malign a religion they cannot stand. The facts do not support their zeal in using the issue to further their interests. 

Sometimes in my heart of hearts, I think that the emotional devastation wrought by abuse is surely overstated. Not that it is nothing. Far from it! But people can and do recover, as they can and do from atrocities they encounter in other aspects of life. As observed before, ancient Greece is the bedrock of Western civilization. The sexual abuse of children was an enscounced staple of that society. How did they ever survive to become 'our' mentors of democracy?

People my age will remember how suddenly the outcry over child sexual abuse burst upon the scene, triggered mostly by scandals in the church - unheard of one day, public enemy #1 the next. And then, as zealots always do, they reach back in time to judge yesterday's people by today's standards. 

In recent years, the American founding fathers that lodge in JTR's house have been vilified for owning slaves. Yet, when time travel is invented, the morals police of today will give them a friendly wave as they race back in history to bring the real slimeballs, the pedophile pervert pillars of ancient Greek society, back in leg-irons.

[Evacuated]

3 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Sometimes in my heart of hearts, I think that the emotional devastation wrought by abuse is surely overstated.

Shooting from the hip I think. 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Tom, Tom Tommy Tom Tom:

I hate to point this out once again, for perhaps the sixth time... but your reading comprehension skills need a LOT of work.

I was talking about ONE thing... how to tell if ones' arguments are valid, or are off on a tangent, up the creek without a paddle, or sauntering down Booger's Woods to the trivia pit of intellectual analysis.

NO MORE!

What I said was:

On 5/25/2017 at 10:33 PM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

.... for pedophilia, substitute the phrase "FIRST DEGREE MURDER",  and see if your argument still makes sense.

If it does, you are OK.

If it does NOT .. there are flaws in the moral high ground attempted ... by requiring a HIGHER moral high ground of others.

Go ahead, be a sport.... try it out!

The substitution was a TOOL to analyze a point of view, to see if it was valid .... no more. Many other tools might be just as useful ...or not.  Good detectives can take the skimpiest clues and develop a strong cohesive picture of events ... bad detectives can take an explicit picture, and remark.. "nice colors".

I do agree with you about the nature of the problem may be overblown ... like the prostitute that complained to the police that she had been raped, but only realized it when the check bounced.  Money and the search for deep pockets make for VERY flexible memories ... but Justice we get from Jehovah God ... EVERYTHING else is due process.

That does NOT mean we slow down in the relentless, never ending search for Justice.

AND DEMAND it of ourselves ... and others.

[TrueTomHarley]

16 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I hate to point this out once again, for perhaps the sixth time... but your reading comprehension skills need a LOT of work.

I was talking about ONE thing... how to tell if ones' arguments are valid, or are off on a tangent, up the creek without a paddle, or sauntering down Booger's Woods to the trivia pit of intellectual analysis.

Oh, stuff it. Your inference was clear as day. If you didn't mean it the way any reasonable person would take it, then your writing skills still need a LOT of work.

 

1 hour ago, Eoin Joyce said:

Shooting from the hip I think. 

You can do that when you're sharing from your heart of hearts.

However, let me restate it, for I do not want to give the appearance of minimizing it. Perhaps the pain caused by child sexual abuse is not overstated - I'll walk that one back. But, in that case, the pain caused by myriad other evils is understated.

Maybe it must be that way. Maybe if you processed all the pain of all the evil and compared it with the little progress in its alleviation, without the Kingdom hope to counterbalance it, you would go insane. So to preserve sanity, persons reserve their outrage for the one evil that appears solvable.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

On 5/25/2017 at 10:33 PM, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

.... for pedophilia, substitute the phrase "FIRST DEGREE MURDER",  and see if your argument still makes sense.

Oh Tommy Tom Tom .... what part of the above sentence do you NOT UNDERSTAND?

apparently it is the phrase :

" ... AND SEE IF YOUR ARGUMENT STILL MAKES SENSE"

And now, for a musical interlude, Kermit the Frog, direct from his ancestral swamp in Leland Mississippi, sings and dedicates a song to JTR's three children, all Jehovah's Witnesses, and serving whole souled, of which fact I am very proud .....

 

 

[TrueTomHarley]

22 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

" ... AND SEE IF YOUR ARGUMENT STILL MAKES SENSE"

I'M SORRY I STILL CANNOT MAKE SENSE OF YOUR POINT!!!

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Well.... Tommy, I do have a Kermit the Frog muppet, as you can see ( actually, I have five of them ..) and if I can find some crayons, I will try to explain it to you.

[TrueTomHarley]

I did not look at the video - is it a trap? I will get to it, though, most likely.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

I would reply specifically, but I have not located any crayons ....