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All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents


Jack Ryan

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10 hours ago, Bogdan11 said:

Why isn’t society being more proactive

I think @Arauna explained this part of subject how one part of society that including JW members are not willing to be proactive. And that also contribute to general situation.

I agree with many what Arauna described in her comment. And i am also "broken" with so much suffer and bad things that some people and especially children going through. 

It is not about "twisting facts". If people are not satisfied with people who taking a lead, who rule, governing over them and their life, because they have double standards and twisting justice in "worldly system", they have chance to replace them by voting. And so on until they find the best people world can offer. JW not want to be "proactive" in this matter. That is their right to have such stand. But than, why to criticize system. System, "worldly", is mirror of people in general.

JW system is also mirror of people that living and working and contributing to it as such. In general, JW people making effort to be good, but WT Society also have internal "system" that is corruptible and contribute to JW world, as also to worldly world, to be bad place for some individuals (victims).   

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When speaking with others of a different point of view, it is important to treat them with a modicum of respect. It is important not to taunt and ridicule and insult. Of course, if such is your only o

Good point Srecko. I don't think it's entirely fair to blame the GB for creating a "certain" environment inside congregations though. In fact, (we know everything passes through the GB's hands fo

@Arauna How do you actually know that the GB members  " never personally touched a child (actually too innocent  to comprehend how wicked people can be - too good for this world), " ?  There is i

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If people are not satisfied with people who taking a lead, who rule, governing over them and their life, because they have double standards and twisting justice in "worldly system", they have chance to replace them by voting. And so on until they find the best people world can offer.

Of course! Voting is the answer! How’s that working out these days?

The Atlantic has run a (disapproving) article on populists—the winners of popular elections

Right now, the four most populous democracies in the world are ruled by populists: Narendra Modi in India, Donald Trump in the United States, Joko Widodo in Indonesia, and Bolsonaro in Brazil.”

I could be wrong, but I suspect you will not be happy with such voting outcomes. 

According to our research, populist governments have deepened corruption, eroded individual rights, and inflicted serious damage on democratic institutions,” read the Atlantic banner, as they tallied up 46 of such populist winners.

Your criticism is no more than your humanism speaking. You pull out all stops to slam JWs. It is not as though you have anything better to offer. What you have is considerably worse.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/12/hard-data-populism-bolsonaro-trump/578878/

 
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What this means is that the policies/by-laws, etc. of past administrations/owners, etc. can be held liable for allowing harm to happen to it's employee's. It reminds me of the lawsuits that arrived from asbestos poisoning and tobacco manufacture's.

https://www.asbestos.com/mesothelioma-lawyer/settlements/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_Master_Settlement_Agreement

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10 hours ago, Arauna said:

We know that Jehovah says: "this is what some of you were...". so our oganization must allow them to attend meetings and still protect children.

This is important, too. One of the lists kept by the Society, that was discussed in a recent court case, actually concerned a list of pedophiles who had been converted through the prison ministries, persons who had been convicted of their crimes before becoming Witnesses.

There has been some "social media" confusion, perhaps deliberate, among the list of Australian cases and victims, a central list of congregational "judicial" disciplinary actions against congregation members (including elders) being kept at the United States headquarters, and lists of persons in situations such as the formerly convicted "known" pedophiles. It should also be repeated that some family members who have been victims of incest have been very adamant about not allowing such lists to be exposed anywhere for fear it will result in prejudice against the victims in society or even in the congregations. Historically, this has been a big reason for covering up the crime of incestual rape, in many societies, but unfortunately it is sometimes spouses and other relatives who push for covering it up and thereby override the need to protect the child.

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11 hours ago, Arauna said:

We cannot read hearts or intentions of brothers..... most are not child molesters but there may just be one rotten apple amongst a bunch of faithful brothers....... like Judas iscariot among the associates of Jesus.

I agree. Even our estranged cousins the Bible Students have made a similar and compelling argument with that of the Org.

The Herald of Christ's Kingdom

January/February 1997

Statistics are constantly quoted in the news leading to concerns that the hectic day outside the home does not stop when the family comes together inside. It is a greater challenge to keep families together. It is harder to keep the outside influences of the world from invading the thinking and relationships within the home; the results can be tragic and heartbreaking. Domestic violence increases. Divorce rates increase. Child abuse increases. Suicides increase.

 

While the Christians are in the world and affected by the same pressures and environments, they must constantly battle to avoid being of the world. The world’s solutions are not acceptable nor are they to be copied. The Christian knows that success in fighting stress is directly related to the transforming of the mind into that of Christ.

A point to be considered. Back then, in the most part “child abuse” meant “physical maltreatment” not sexual molestation. Therefore, to use the term child abuse in the earlier context to mean the latter should not be taken out of context.

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4 minutes ago, Tom Henry said:

A point to be considered. Back then, in the most part “child abuse” meant “physical maltreatment” not sexual molestation. Therefore, to use the term child abuse in the earlier context to mean the latter should not be taken out of context.

This is a good point. I agree with it. When people keep talking about child sexual abuse and it becomes the big topic in the news, then it is easy to kind of impose child sexual abuse as the intended meaning even when we hear the term child abuse, which does not necessarily imply sexual abuse. 

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To be practical; all those who are concerned about allegations of CSA cover up in HQ, and these allegations come to light, and it is proved some were made deliberately and harmed children, then no doubt justice will be carried out, if not by human hand, then by God's hand. And the organization WILL be cleaned where necessary. In fact, this cleaning is happening all the time, (whether it be regarding doctrine or organisational procedure) because of the imperfection of man, it is something that is necessary and inevitable. It was going on in Bible times and it hasn't stopped. Some of it is immediately visible, some not so much. Some of it happens quickly, some takes more time, but in the end it happens one way or another and will continue to happen. And this is what we all want, isn't it? Some of us may even contribute to some changes personally, and we know worldly institutions have already effected changes for example in the handling of CSA. 
So what is the purpose of some on here who criticize? Surely they are not expecting, or wishing for the organization to cease to exist? That would be unrealistic of course. But if the criticism is constructive, and hopes for a better way of doing things, then that is a good thing. However, if the criticism is merely to tear down, or vent ones anger and dissapointment, then these people forget that the organization is based on faith in God, and that its members will always rely on God for the ultimate solution. So there is no point in unconstructive criticism (when is there ever?) only to vent. And that's also fine if they feel this is a good place for it.

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15 hours ago, JW Insider said:

It's quite possible you are right about the current eight old men who may have never personally touched a child (in an abusive way). It's my impression that they are also quite innocent of any such issues.

But I don't think you can ever say that anyone in such a position as in the GB cannot comprehend such wickedness in others. They have dealt with a lot in their lives and they have been forced to deal with the topic even if they didn't want to.

And not to deal in gossip, but I can speak almost positively about the following situation, at least I can speak for the trustworthiness of the brothers who gave me the information. What I heard about several years ago from a friend in Writing, were things I talked about before the ARC, and they came up again from another brother after I discussed the ongoing ARC with him.

It actually started with two members of the Governing Body, who seemed not to want to speak to each other. Both became GB members in 1974 and this issue was visible during the time I worked around them. One had previously been assigned to lead the Branch in Australia and the other had previously been assigned to work in Japan. The brother assigned to Australia was recalled suddenly and demoted to become a Circuit Overseer in the Midwest in the United States. After many years of rebuilding his reputation, through Circuit then District work, he finally was asked to join the Governing Body in New York. The explanation I was given was that the demotion was punishment for being involved in accusations of child sexual abuse. (I never knew if the accusations had been in Australia, the USA, or both, but a later separate rumor had tied him to a case in the United States through a Witness doctor.) At any rate, by 1974, this issue was considered to have been from long enough in his past for his appointment to the GB.

By 1991 one of the GB members was heading the Writing Dept, and the once-accused GB member was heading the Service Dept. You probably already know that the October 8 1991 Awake! had an article on Child Sexual Abuse that included "worldly" therapy as a possible solution for some victims, and this head of the Service Dept hated the article. (For that matter it's probably true that most members of the Governing Body apparently thought that worldly psychotherapy was little more than something worldly or even satanic.) But by now, there were Witness psychotherapists and psychiatrists, and they appreciated the article. Mostly the article was appreciated by CSA victims, and tons of letters of appreciation came in. For an April 1992 follow up, the head of Writing decided to print some excerpts from some of those letters of appreciation and the head of Service actually "stopped the presses" to have the article replaced while the head of Writing was out of the country. The head of Service didn't get his way; presses started up again, and you can read the article in the April 8 1992 Awake!.

But, as head of the Service Department, he sent out several of the most well known Circuit and District Overseers on a campaign in 1992 to speak with abuse victims to let them know they should never reveal anything about their abusers and their abuse, or they could be disfellowshipped.

One of those men in the intimidation campaign is now on the Governing Body.

You can take these are merely unsubstantiated rumors, and I admit that I have no evidence to substantiate them. I can only speak to the honesty and track record of the brothers who told me about them.

 

There is so much in that comment that, if it's all true (and I do believe it) , tells me the GB are not the F&DS AND tells me they areote not even of the Anointed. 

And again this threat of being disfellowshippped, which many JW's deny.

Quote  "It's quite possible you are right about the current eight old men who may have never personally touched a child (in an abusive way). It's my impression that they are also quite innocent of any such issues. "

So do pedophiles go around wearing a badge so that you can recognise them ?  One of the main problems IS that they are not recognisable from 'nice' people. They keep it so well hidden obviously or they would be noticed immediately. 

Quote "But I don't think you can ever say that anyone in such a position as in the GB cannot comprehend such wickedness in others. They have dealt with a lot in their lives and they have been forced to deal with the topic even if they didn't want to "

The child sexual abuse accusations in Australia has been going on for well over 50 years. That much was proved in the  ARC. So anyone of the GB within that time should have been well aware of the CSA in the Org. Do we yet know how long CSA has been going on in USA ? 

GB members that don't want to talk to each other. And now, GB members that don't want the Anointed around the earth to speak to each other.  Please tell me where is 'the love for one another' and the 'everyone working together to serve God properly', that the JW Org pretends to have ?

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Anna said:

But if the criticism is constructive, and hopes for a better way of doing things, then that is a good thing. However, if the criticism is merely to tear down, or vent ones anger and dissapointment, then these people forget that the organization is based on faith in God, and that its members will always rely on God for the ultimate solution.

The motive should not matter, if the charges are truthful. The difference in motive will sometimes show up in the level of carefulness and honesty. So badly motivated persons will often make claims that are not going to be useful as "constructive." They may even backfire in a court of law and discredit the usefulness and value of claims that could have otherwise been constructive.

We often use a scripture that we apply to the congregation, when it actually appears to have more of an application to "secular" authorities:

(Leviticus 5:1) . . .“‘If someone sins because he has heard a public call to testify and he is a witness or has seen or learned about it and he does not report it, then he will answer for his error."

So, there is precedent for bringing to light those activities that "love" the darkness.

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9 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

The motive should not matter, if the charges are truthful. The difference in motive will sometimes show up in the level of carefulness and honesty. So badly motivated persons will often make claims that are not going to be useful as "constructive." They may even backfire in a court of law and discredit the usefulness and value of claims that could have otherwise been constructive.

We often use a scripture that we apply to the congregation, when it actually appears to have more of an application to "secular" authorities:

(Leviticus 5:1) . . .“‘If someone sins because he has heard a public call to testify and he is a witness or has seen or learned about it and he does not report it, then he will answer for his error."

So, there is precedent for bringing to light those activities that "love" the darkness.

This is what I meant 😀 and not only with regard to CSA but anything that we feel is not right.

I need to edit this: not just anything we feel is not right, but that is actually not right scripturally.

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7 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

And again this threat of being disfellowshippped, which many JW's deny.

I think that such cases will be very rare based on the new processes. As much as I am concerned about how closely elders seem to accept WTS processes as "law" it's good when these rules have been corrected and we can expect them to be followed to the letter.

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13 hours ago, Arauna said:

Jehovah judges perfectly because he understands perfectly.  BUT you are twisting the facts:

It is PEOPLE here on the forum who have appointed themselves as judges and definitely are not perfect judges. They judge the past according to the modern day secular laws that are now in place and according to current society habits.

I grew up in the 1950s when these things were a taboo to talk about in society.  AFTER  the 1960s, with the sexual revolution, they started to talk about  this subject in the secular press. When I worked for newspapers as a reporter in 1980s many of the first laws were in place in first world countries and court procedures were slowly refined until 2003.

The inquiry that was done in Australia into more than 2000 organizations was done to close further legal gaps in the system.......... BUT these laws are not always enforced in many countries where there are laws.  In UK rape gangs have been operating for years with a blind eye by law enforcement.  Child services, both in USA and UK were exposed to be part of child sex rings and reporters and policemen who try to investigate it, are found dead.

This is why I often mention the abuses of high society (the rich and powerful) and other levels of society who are known to marry 9 year old girls against their will - these people get different treatment than others.  .... and JWs are judged harshly because they were not vigilant enough and tried to stop it from 1950s by keeping records.  JWs are now retroactively tried in court with sensationalist press, when boy scouts etc just closed down and no court accountability given..... so it creates a false impression that JWs  condone this. 

Other "guilty" members of society (some are teenage boys tried as adults) get many years in prison are branded for life and forced to live in villages away from society for the rest of their lives. But exposed child trafficking rings etc rape rings - nothing done.  This is not Jehovahs justice...... and in the end ..... it will be Jehovah and Jesus who will judge every wicked thing done in secret whether the individual pretended to serve him or not. 

In the meantime, millions of children's lives are messed up...... and jehovah will judge those with mercy and love. 

If anyone here on this forum thinks for a moment that children are currently protected  - they are very naive to this morally rotten world.  Child services in many cases are now private companies and are in it for money.  Sex trafficking of children is more lucrative than drug trafficking...... and much more prevalent than we can even imagine.

I disagree with the assumption that we can understand the mind of these children rapists...... they are so Satanistic.... we cannot imagine the lengths these people will go to and how far beyond a conscience they are..... and they are amongst us ..... and sometimes they pretend to be our moral leaders in society. They are judges, political leaders, military, FBI, MI5, etc etc....where they have more power and resources to cover up their activities  ....and the making of money.

Internet porn has exploited children and made them more vulnerable...... The new UN curriculum (forced upon all schools in the West) now sexualizes children at a tender age and is preparing the way for LGBTQ.....P.   

We are living in last days where any form of morality is becoming something of the past...... Sexual exploitation of children once was a spoken taboo - soon to be openly practiced by anyone who wishes to do so. 

Chidren are being married off legally in many countries as we speak.  In Germany a judge threw out a case where a 10 year old was married off.  This now has set a precedent: police will no longer arrest perpetrators who exploit 10 year olds because this is now regarded as marriageable age. Muslim laws are eroding the old western laws.

We are going back to the time before jehovah gave laws to the Israelites.  Like the Canaanites we will see openly child exploitation and even child murder is returning.  In Africa- the practice of using child body parts in witchcraft medicine is back in full scale.  Recently I saw a mother crying.  She found her shepard boy still half alive with half his brain removed, his sexual organs etc removed.  If this shocks you..... I hope it did.  This is the reality of the world we are living in now. Satan is rampant and people with no morals are doing what they like.  There is a semblance of law and order but underneath it all morality is falling apart.

People here on this forum try to make JWs into monsters.... when the real monsters who are exploiting children are using the worldly system to do this.  The worldly legal system is becoming less and less accountable and favoring the rich and powerful (and certain favoured minorities) to do as they please. 

People here do not understand why I talk about the worldly legal system and its double standards..... Well look at the headline above...... JW opposers are gloating because we are being used as a target by this very worldly system which protects other groups. 

Yes - we will be judged by the world and Jehovah. The one, often serves injustice - the other is just and really exists..... which one's verdicts will stand forever? 

 

Quote @Arauna I disagree with the assumption that we can understand the mind of these children rapists  ..... they are so Satanistic.... we cannot imagine the lengths these people will go to and how far beyond a conscience they are..... and they are amongst us ..... and sometimes they pretend to be our moral leaders in society. 

Yes, and they are in the JW Org............... and YOU say 'we cannot understand the mind of these child rapists'.... So how can the Elders hide them in the JW Org, and how can the Elders say that these rapists are repentant ?     Remember YOU said we cannot understand the mind of these children rapists. They are so Satanistic... 

So get real, wake up, and stop looking for excuses in the outside Devil's world.

Remember scripture, Don't tell your brother he has a straw in his eye, when you have a rafter in yours. = JW Org,  Don't say how wicked the outside world is when the inside of JW Org is just as wicked. 

 

4 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

If people are not satisfied with people who taking a lead, who rule, governing over them and their life, because they have double standards and twisting justice in "worldly system", they have chance to replace them by voting. And so on until they find the best people world can offer.

Of course! Voting is the answer! How’s that working out these days?

The Atlantic has run a (disapproving) article on populists—the winners of popular elections

Right now, the four most populous democracies in the world are ruled by populists: Narendra Modi in India, Donald Trump in the United States, Joko Widodo in Indonesia, and Bolsonaro in Brazil.”

I could be wrong, but I suspect you will not be happy with such voting outcomes. 

According to our research, populist governments have deepened corruption, eroded individual rights, and inflicted serious damage on democratic institutions,” read the Atlantic banner, as they tallied up 46 of such populist winners.

Your criticism is no more than your humanism speaking. You pull out all stops to slam JWs. It is not as though you have anything better to offer. What you have is considerably worse.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/12/hard-data-populism-bolsonaro-trump/578878/

 

Someone must vote in your GB members, and it sure enough cannot be God or Jesus Christ because they would make better choices..... Someone must vote in the Elders, and I don't think it has anything to do with holy spirit because we can see how wicked many elders have been and still are.... So your Org must have some sort of voting system, which of course they pretend involves Christ. 

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    • SpiritualSister 24  »  DARLENE2022

      Hello, Darlene, I just love your name, I had a cousin named Darline, and had a classmate also named Darlene! It's a pleasure to know another Darlene! Especially a Spiritual Sister! There's some websites, Ministry Ideaz , JW Stuff.com, and Etsy that I use to order my yearly buttons for the Conventions! They always send me what I order, and their also Jehovah's Witnesses, that send us the merchandise we order!  You can check out these websites, and they might have what your looking for! I hope I have been helpful in assisting you, Darlene! Agape love, Shirley!😀
      · 1 reply
    • SpiritualSister 24

      2024"Enter Into God's Rest" Circuit Assembly! 
      · 0 replies
    • Janice Lewis  »  T.B. (Twyla)

      Hello Twyla, when will the weekly study material be available. I am a member.
      Janice Lewis     lewisjanice84@gmail.com
      Thank you
      · 1 reply
    • Chloe Newman  »  T.B. (Twyla)

      Hi Twyla,
       
      When will the meeting material for week com Monday 11th March 2024 be available?
       
      You normally post it the week before, normally on a Thursday.
       
      Please let me know if there is any problem.
       
      Best Regards
       
      Chloe
       
       
       
       
      · 0 replies
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