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All Eight Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses members are now individually named on two New York Child Victims Act case documents


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28 minutes ago, 4Jah2me said:

As for you commenting and being blunt. Do it. As long as you are not abusive and not too insulting to people :) 

I am ashamed to admit that you have many irrefutable points in you above post.  I cannot refute any of them,

EXCEPT your quote, posted here on this post..

FACTS about such things are NATURALLY abusive and insulting to the agenda driven.

But, willy-nilly ... they are still facts.

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When speaking with others of a different point of view, it is important to treat them with a modicum of respect. It is important not to taunt and ridicule and insult. Of course, if such is your only o

Good point Srecko. I don't think it's entirely fair to blame the GB for creating a "certain" environment inside congregations though. In fact, (we know everything passes through the GB's hands fo

@Arauna How do you actually know that the GB members  " never personally touched a child (actually too innocent  to comprehend how wicked people can be - too good for this world), " ?  There is i

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2 hours ago, Bogdan11 said:

I don’t believe I’m allowed to respond to such criticism unless I can get a green light from the website owner. I will wait to receive the rules of engagement and proper protocol with a point of order.

You are allowed to respond to criticism any way you want as long as you are civil and not rude.

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I have found in over 7000 posts that I can be rude, and belligerent, and insulting ... if the level of stupidity rises to the point where a "reasonable person" would conclude that it is a defense to previous insults and/or accusations, not based in fact.

And that insulting ideas and philosophies with provable facts is quite OK, here.

Ad Hominem attacks are never acceptable without a solid basis to do so.

...... and never invoke "Godwin's Law", unless you fully understand what it says and does not say.

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2 hours ago, Bogdan11 said:

I don’t believe I’m allowed to respond to such criticism unless I can get a green light from the website owner. 

You may proceed.

2 hours ago, Bogdan11 said:

I will wait to receive the rules of engagement and proper protocol with a point of order. 

The requirements are not high. You must simply make sure that you are not the most unpleasant person here. The mere fact that you raised the above two points guarantees that you will not be.

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On 11/16/2019 at 9:11 AM, Arauna said:

As I said before: eight old men who never personally touched a child (actually too innocent  to comprehend how wicked people can be - too good for this world)

It's quite possible you are right about the current eight old men who may have never personally touched a child (in an abusive way). It's my impression that they are also quite innocent of any such issues.

But I don't think you can ever say that anyone in such a position as in the GB cannot comprehend such wickedness in others. They have dealt with a lot in their lives and they have been forced to deal with the topic even if they didn't want to.

And not to deal in gossip, but I can speak almost positively about the following situation, at least I can speak for the trustworthiness of the brothers who gave me the information. What I heard about several years ago from a friend in Writing, were things I talked about before the ARC, and they came up again from another brother after I discussed the ongoing ARC with him.

It actually started with two members of the Governing Body, who seemed not to want to speak to each other. Both became GB members in 1974 and this issue was visible during the time I worked around them. One had previously been assigned to a leading position for the Branch in Australia and the other had previously been assigned to work in Japan. The brother assigned to Australia was recalled suddenly and demoted to become a Circuit Overseer in the Midwest in the United States. After many years of rebuilding his reputation, through Circuit then District work, he finally was asked to join the Governing Body in New York. The explanation I was given was that the demotion was punishment for being involved in accusations of child sexual abuse. (I never knew if the accusations had been in Australia, the USA, or both, but a later separate rumor had tied him to a case in the United States through a Witness doctor.) At any rate, by 1974, this issue was considered to have been from long enough in his past for his appointment to the GB.

By 1991 one of the GB members was heading the Writing Dept, and the once-accused GB member was heading the Service Dept. You probably already know that the October 8 1991 Awake! had an article on Child Sexual Abuse that included "worldly" therapy as a possible solution for some victims, and this head of the Service Dept hated the article. (For that matter it's probably true that most members of the Governing Body apparently thought that worldly psychotherapy was little more than something worldly or even satanic.) But by now, there were Witness psychotherapists and psychiatrists, and they appreciated the article. Mostly the article was appreciated by CSA victims, and tons of letters of appreciation came in. For an April 1992 follow up, the head of Writing decided to print some excerpts from some of those letters of appreciation and the head of Service actually "stopped the presses" to have the article replaced while the head of Writing was out of the country. The head of Service didn't get his way; presses started up again, and you can read the article in the April 8 1992 Awake!.

But, as head of the Service Department, he sent out several of the most well known Circuit and District Overseers on a campaign in 1992 to speak with abuse victims to let them know they should never reveal anything about their abusers and their abuse, or they could be disfellowshipped.

One of those men in the intimidation campaign is now on the Governing Body.

You can take these are merely unsubstantiated rumors, and I admit that I have no evidence to substantiate them. I can only speak to the honesty and track record of the brothers who told me about them.

 

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1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The requirements are not high. You must simply make sure that you are not the most unpleasant person here. The mere fact that you raised the above two points guarantees that you will not be.

Thank you for your input. I’m still at a loss. Anna mentioned not to be rude, does this apply to me only? If someone is rude and insulting to me, are you saying not to reply?

Mr. Rook has commented with humor how he has dealt with people here. This is the clarification I need before I engage. I’m sorry for being too cautious, I hope you can see the dilemma I’m raising.

2 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

You are copying Arauna. You are doubling backwards to compare the GB and it's Org to the world which belongs to the Devil. 

You should be comparing the GB and the Org to God's standards.

I can see your point of view. My point is entertaining the idea that the GB are earthbound. I cannot see where they could escape from being an earthly organization. I can understand Jesus’ Ascension, but that was without the apostles that were also earthbound. The apostles didn’t have personal insight of all the sinners in the congregations being formed. It goes without a doubt a certain amount of faith needed to be applied just as it’s needed in today’s society. Faith in God of course but also faith in your fellow men that carry the same interest as those worshipping God. Can anyone abstain from sin? You would have to have faith in others that their heart is as devoted as yours. Not to fall into temptation from this world. If someone does, that person should be allowed to show genuine repentance, if not, they should not be part of an organization that commands loyalty and obedience to God, by God's own inspired word. 

Then it is not what the organization demands, it's God that demands it.

However, I will not anger you or give you an exclamatory downvote since it appears to be forbidden for someone like me. I yield that to you, thanks.

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1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

And not to deal in gossip, but I can speak almost positively about the following situation, at least I can speak for the trustworthiness of the brothers who gave me the information. What I heard about several years ago from a friend in Writing, were things I talked about before the ARC, and they came up again from another brother after I discussed the ongoing ARC with him.

It actually started with two members of the Governing Body, who seemed not to want to speak to each other. Both became GB members in 1974 and this issue was visible during the time I worked around them. One had previously been assigned to lead the Branch in Australia and the other had previously been assigned to work in Japan. The brother assigned to Australia was recalled suddenly and demoted to become a Circuit Overseer in the Midwest in the United States.

I would ask what if someone from that time period, remembers the allegation you are sighting differently. Something like not child sexual abuse, but assault on a minor.

The reason the ARC has become ineffective is that they attempted to shield government run detention centers from being prosecuted for child sexual abuse. The ARC refused to even pick up the allegation until the media forced them to.

How can such accusations be verified. By word of mouth or by evidence that can be substantiated? Meanwhile, wouldn't it amount to gossip?

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9 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

By what law JHVH would judge people who lived in different periods of time.

Jehovah judges perfectly because he understands perfectly.  BUT you are twisting the facts:

It is PEOPLE here on the forum who have appointed themselves as judges and definitely are not perfect judges. They judge the past according to the modern day secular laws that are now in place and according to current society habits.

I grew up in the 1950s when these things were a taboo to talk about in society.  AFTER  the 1960s, with the sexual revolution, they started to talk about  this subject in the secular press. When I worked for newspapers as a reporter in 1980s many of the first laws were in place in first world countries and court procedures were slowly refined until 2003.

The inquiry that was done in Australia into more than 2000 organizations was done to close further legal gaps in the system.......... BUT these laws are not always enforced in many countries where there are laws.  In UK rape gangs have been operating for years with a blind eye by law enforcement.  Child services, both in USA and UK were exposed to be part of child sex rings and reporters and policemen who try to investigate it, are found dead.

This is why I often mention the abuses of high society (the rich and powerful) and other levels of society who are known to marry 9 year old girls against their will - these people get different treatment than others.  .... and JWs are judged harshly because they were not vigilant enough and tried to stop it from 1950s by keeping records.  JWs are now retroactively tried in court with sensationalist press, when boy scouts etc just closed down and no court accountability given..... so it creates a false impression that JWs  condone this. 

Other "guilty" members of society (some are teenage boys tried as adults) get many years in prison are branded for life and forced to live in villages away from society for the rest of their lives. But exposed child trafficking rings etc rape rings - nothing done.  This is not Jehovahs justice...... and in the end ..... it will be Jehovah and Jesus who will judge every wicked thing done in secret whether the individual pretended to serve him or not. 

In the meantime, millions of children's lives are messed up...... and jehovah will judge those with mercy and love. 

If anyone here on this forum thinks for a moment that children are currently protected  - they are very naive to this morally rotten world.  Child services in many cases are now private companies and are in it for money.  Sex trafficking of children is more lucrative than drug trafficking...... and much more prevalent than we can even imagine.

I disagree with the assumption that we can understand the mind of these children rapists...... they are so Satanistic.... we cannot imagine the lengths these people will go to and how far beyond a conscience they are..... and they are amongst us ..... and sometimes they pretend to be our moral leaders in society. They are judges, political leaders, military, FBI, MI5, etc etc....where they have more power and resources to cover up their activities  ....and the making of money.

Internet porn has exploited children and made them more vulnerable...... The new UN curriculum (forced upon all schools in the West) now sexualizes children at a tender age and is preparing the way for LGBTQ.....P.   

We are living in last days where any form of morality is becoming something of the past...... Sexual exploitation of children once was a spoken taboo - soon to be openly practiced by anyone who wishes to do so. 

Chidren are being married off legally in many countries as we speak.  In Germany a judge threw out a case where a 10 year old was married off.  This now has set a precedent: police will no longer arrest perpetrators who exploit 10 year olds because this is now regarded as marriageable age. Muslim laws are eroding the old western laws.

We are going back to the time before jehovah gave laws to the Israelites.  Like the Canaanites we will see openly child exploitation and even child murder is returning.  In Africa- the practice of using child body parts in witchcraft medicine is back in full scale.  Recently I saw a mother crying.  She found her shepard boy still half alive with half his brain removed, his sexual organs etc removed.  If this shocks you..... I hope it did.  This is the reality of the world we are living in now. Satan is rampant and people with no morals are doing what they like.  There is a semblance of law and order but underneath it all morality is falling apart.

People here on this forum try to make JWs into monsters.... when the real monsters who are exploiting children are using the worldly system to do this.  The worldly legal system is becoming less and less accountable and favoring the rich and powerful (and certain favoured minorities) to do as they please. 

People here do not understand why I talk about the worldly legal system and its double standards..... Well look at the headline above...... JW opposers are gloating because we are being used as a target by this very worldly system which protects other groups. 

Yes - we will be judged by the world and Jehovah. The one, often serves injustice - the other is just and really exists..... which one's verdicts will stand forever? 

 

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41 minutes ago, Arauna said:

I grew up in the 1950s when these things were a taboo to talk about in society.  AFTER  the 1960s, with the sexual revolution, they started to talk about  this subject in the secular press. When I worked for newspapers as a reporter in 1980s many of the first laws were in place in first world countries and court procedures were slowly refined until 2003.

I for one do, understand how society is looking at past allegations with today's laws. Not that society is better off with the laws made to protect, it just gives people a false sense of hope.

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2 minutes ago, Tom Henry said:

Not that society is better off with the laws made to protect, it just gives people a false sense of hope.

There is this question too: can a child rapists be rehabilitated?   Experts in the past put children back in the home with the perpetrator if he was the father.  The latest:  there are experts who say this  cannot be changed.  

We know that Jehovah says: "this is what some of you were...". so our oganization must allow them to attend meetings and still protect children.  A tall order. The difference is mercy or condemnation.  I put myself in place of GB and ask:  Must we make tons of rules..... ?  Or educate parents to do a better job at protecting their own children. 

We cannot read hearts or intentions of brothers..... most are not child molesters but there may just be one rotten apple amongst a bunch of faithful brothers....... like Judas iscariot among the associates of Jesus.

On 11/17/2019 at 3:08 AM, JJJ-AUSTRALIA said:

How do U know as a fact they have never touched anyone inappropriately, not saying they have but to make such statement that

How can one just make the assumption option that they have without a court conviction?

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9 minutes ago, Arauna said:

How can one just make the assumption option that they have without a court conviction?

You were the one making the statement without any evidence I did not make any statement that they were clean or not, what matters is that the GB refused to give evidence clean or not. Or should we recap what Garry lush mentioned on his statement or what Geffry Jackson said in case 29 thanks to them I see where the GB stands. I'm sure U will come up with some incredible amusing excuse but what it was said has lots of repurcussions to the point that my wife and I can not believe another word that comes from them.

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