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LOCKED UP! - Roy Collins, the Jehovah's Witness "convicted of the systematic sexual abuse of two young girls"


Jack Ryan

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5 hours ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Many Earthwide who were once JW's and have left or been removed because they were stumbled due to the GB policies and the puppet Elders that didn't question orders

I think it is just that they developed or came across something that they thought entitled them to drive the bus. They left when they discovered that they would not be allowed to. In some cases they were caught red-handed trying to hotwire the bus.

In the end it is a too high opinion of oneself and one’s wisdom that sinks one. The worship and deeds of Jehovah’s Witnesses, magnified by their organized quality, either appeal to the heart or they don’t.

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They did indeed. You are right. And they got things wrong as well. But not where it counts it seems.

The problem with that is that sometimes in someone's eyes you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. And what someone calls being stumbled, someone else calls being strengthened, by exactly the

I think it is just that they developed or came across something that they thought entitled them to drive the bus. They left when they discovered that they would not be allowed to. In some cases they w

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12 hours ago, Gone Away said:

Just shows how wrong you can be. Your presumption of happiness seems to be entirely material. That may well be at the core of your perception.

 

 

Oh dear, actually it related to scripture, but in truth I'm sure you got the point of it. You and your close friends are ok, so why worry about anyone else. But of course you knew exactly where i was coming from, and didn't like it. So be it, you show yourself  to be a true JW in attitude, selfish and not caring of others, other than close friends. Matthew 5 v 46 & 47. 

 For if you love those loving you, what reward do you have? Are not also the tax collectors doing the same thing?  And if you greet your brothers only, what extraordinary thing are you doing? Are not also the people of the nations doing the same thing ? 

I had actually seen this attitude in the KH when I'd asked after someone who has been missing from meetings for a long time. No one really cares. They only care for these close friends. So be it. 

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10 hours ago, Anna said:

The problem with that is that sometimes in someone's eyes you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. And what someone calls being stumbled, someone else calls being strengthened, by exactly the same thing. I suppose it all boils down to attitude and :

Colossians  3:13

"Continue putting up with one another and forgiving one another freely even if anyone has a cause for complaint against another. Just as Jehovah freely forgave you, you must also do the same. 14  But besides all these things, clothe yourselves with love, for it is a perfect bond of union."

 

So the Luke 17 v 1 & 2 scripture means nothing then ?  Your saying the Colossians scripture contradicts it ? 

I suppose you would use that Colossians scripture against the Victims of Child Abuse. So be it Anna.

JW's showing true colours here today it seems. I'd give you the same Matthew scripture as above. 

Give consideration to those spiritually weaker that yourself. 

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9 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I think it is just that they developed or came across something that they thought entitled them to drive the bus. They left when they discovered that they would not be allowed to. In some cases they were caught red-handed trying to hotwire the bus.

In the end it is a too high opinion of oneself and one’s wisdom that sinks one. The worship and deeds of Jehovah’s Witnesses, magnified by their organized quality, either appeal to the heart or they don’t.

I would give you the same Luke 17 v 1 & 2 scripture too, but it would be of no use. There are none so blind as those that deliberately will not see. And that seems to apply to you and Anna and Gone Away. 

I am finding though that visiting this 'site' helps to give me perspective. And although it may not seem so, i do consider both sides of the 'coin'.  Yes people can get easily upset by trivial matters i agree, and yes we should all try to overlook 'faults' in others and hope that they would overlook our faults too. 

But to say that they leave because they can't get control seems a bit far fetched. Unless of course a person enters the Org with such intentions, but I wouldn't think many do that.  I do find that in congregations I've known, that individual Elders do tend to take control of the congregation, and the other Elders seem to be frightened of them. You might find that unbelievable. 

For instance when I reported a situation and was then threatened with being disfellowshipped for slander. The one Elder that threatened to disfellowship me if i didn't withdraw all of my accusations, seemed to back off when i said, 'If you think you have the authority to disfellowship me then go ahead and do it '. He didn't of course as he didn't have that authority, but the threat was only from him, not the other Elders.  That Elder now has his father with him as another Elder in Honiton congregation, here in Devon. I dread to think how it is being run now. The two of them domineering the congregation. 

The JW Org is like a beautiful forest from a distance, but just do not get close and look at those trees or you will be so disappointed. 

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1 hour ago, JOHN BUTLER said:

Oh dear, actually it related to scripture, but in truth I'm sure you got the point of it. You and your close friends are ok, so why worry about anyone else. But of course you knew exactly where i was coming from, and didn't like it. So be it, you show yourself  to be a true JW in attitude, selfish and not caring of others, other than close friends. Matthew 5 v 46 & 47. 

I find that hard to believe with what you have said about Christians who are trying to prevent brazen conduct and the fact that other things happen to other people outside of a single faith community.

 

That being said, people do care, and they have concerns for all persons, not all persons from a single community.

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@TrueTomHarley People seem to forget that Trees are of God's creation. One of the things my father and mother appreciated were anything and everything God has created, so it is silly to be disappointed in something that God provided to mankind, the flora and such s like a gift from our Father in Heaven, as well as the beautifully seas.

 

Alas, what is a blessing some do not appreciate, until it is gone or dying out, that is when they begin to care.

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12 minutes ago, Space Merchant said:

@TrueTomHarley People seem to forget that Trees are of God's creation....Alas, what is a blessing some do not appreciate, until it is gone or dying out, that is when they begin to care.

Yes, they are nice, but they have blemishes. Some are gnarly. Some suffer bugs and blight. Some are not symmetrical. 

'Rip them all out and blacktop what remains' is the attitude of some.

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And not that anyone can be bothered to go back and see what i wrote but this is the scripture i was relating it to. James 2 v 16.

yet one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but you do not give them what they need for their body, of what benefit is it? 

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    • An interesting concept, bible discipline. I am struck by the prevalence of ignorance about spiritual discipline on "Reddit." While physical and mental disciplines receive attention, the profound impact of spiritual discipline on a person's physical and mental well-being is often overlooked. Is it possible to argue against the words of the Apostle Paul? When he penned those words in Hebrews 12, he was recognizing that there are moments when an individual must be "rebuked" in order to be corrected. Even Jesus himself established a precedent when he rebuked Peter and referred to him as Satan for failing to comprehend what Jesus had already revealed to the apostles. Did that imply that Jesus had an evil heart? Not at all, it was quite the opposite; Jesus had a loving heart. His need to correct Peter actually showcased his genuine love for him. If he hadn't cared, he would have let Peter persist in his mistaken ways, leading to a fate similar to Judas'. There is a clear emphasis on avoiding the apostate translation and its meaning, yet many seem to overlook the biblical foundation for the reasons NOT to follow the path of the fallen brethren or those with an apostate mentality. Those individuals have embraced the path of darkness, where the illuminating power of light cannot penetrate, to avoid receiving the righteous discipline based on God's Bible teachings. They are undoubtedly aware that this undeniable truth of life must be disregarded in order to uphold their baseless justifications for the unjust act of shunning. Can anyone truly "force" someone or stop them from rejecting a friend or family member? Such a notion would be absurd, considering the fact that we all have the power of free will. If a Witness decides to distance themselves from a family member or friend simply because they have come out as gay, who is anyone within the organization to question or challenge that personal sentiment? It is unfortunate that there are individuals, both within and outside the organization, who not only lack a proper understanding of the Bible but also dare to suggest that God's discipline is barbaric. We must remember that personal choices should be respected, and it is not for others to judge or condemn someone based on their sexual orientation but should be avoided under biblical grounds. No one should have the power to compel an individual to change their sexual orientation, nor should anyone be forced to accept someone for who they are. When it comes to a family's desire to shield their children from external influences, who has the right to challenge the parents' decision? And if a family's rejection of others is based on cultural factors rather than religious beliefs, who can impose religious judgment on them? Who should true followers of Christ follow? The words of God or those who believe they can change God's laws to fit their lives? How can we apply the inspired words of Paul from God to embrace the reality of God's discipline? On the contrary, how can nonconformists expect to persuade those with a "worldview" that their religious beliefs are unacceptable by ostracizing individuals, when God condemns homosexuality? This is precisely why the arguments put forth by ex-witnesses are lacking in their pursuit of justice. When they employ misguided tactics, justice remains elusive as their arguments are either weak or inconsistent with biblical standards. Therefore, it is crucial to also comprehend Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 9:27. The use of the word "shun" is being exaggerated and excessively condemned by those who reject biblical shunning as a form of punishment. Eph 5:3-14 NIV 3 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. 4 Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. 5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person — such a man is an idolater — has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.  6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7 Therefore do not be partners with them.  8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light 9 (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) 10 and find out what pleases the Lord. 11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. 13 But everything exposed by the light becomes visible. The impact of the message becomes significantly stronger when we emphasize the importance of avoiding any association with unrighteousness and those who remain unrepentant. In fact, it becomes even more compelling when we witness how some individuals, who dismiss biblical shunning as a method of discipline, excessively criticize and condemn the use of the word "shun". Therefore, Jehovah's Witnesses do not shun people; instead, they choose to focus on the negative actions being committed, which is in accordance with biblical teachings. This should be construed as ex-Witness rhetoric. Now, let's consider why ex-Witnesses specifically target one particular religion. What justifications do they provide when other Christian denominations also adhere to the same principle grounded in the Bible? Chapter 1 - Preface Both must therefore test themselves: the one, if he is qualified to speak and leave behind him written records; the other, if he is in a right state to hear and read: as also some in the dispensation of the Eucharist, according to  custom enjoin that each one of the people individually should take his part. One's own conscience is best for choosing accurately or shunning. And its firm foundation is a right life, with suitable instruction. But the imitation of those who have already been proved, and who have led correct lives, is most excellent for the understanding and practice of the commandments. "So that whosoever shall eat the bread and drink the cup of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 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