Russian JW's Begin to Remove Kingdom Halls Signs

[Srecko Sostar]

7 hours ago, Anna said:

There was of course a host of other things he taught and did so that his followers would be able to follow in his footsteps.

Jesus eat and drink and seat with his Jewish brothers and sisters who were "sinners", no matter are those people belonged to his domestic congregation of Nazareth or from some other congregation in country of Israel in 1 century. What are you think? With how many disfellowshiped Jew people, disfellowshiped by Jew priests and elders, Jesus made social contacts, talked, eat , said hello on streets, visited them in their homes ...despite  condemnation and reproach he received by priesthood about such way of behavior Jesus showed to his disciples and to nowadays JW ?   

[Srecko Sostar]

2 hours ago, Arauna said:

To think that the Christians just replicated the Jewish system shows a lack of knowledge of the Bible.

When I said how first Christians replicated old system i thought and try to show in comment, how apostles was under heavy impression and influence of Jew religious system and in the same time try to implement Jesus teachings and way of looking as they have understand. If i am wrong in this view then this Paul done is questionable and not by Christ who would not made compromise under pressure from people; 

   Paul came to Derbe and then to Lystra, where a disciple named Timothy lived, whose mother was Jewish and a believer but whose father was a Greek. ² The believers at Lystra and Iconium spoke well of him. ³ Paul wanted to take him along on the journey, so he circumcised him because of the Jews who lived in that area, for they all knew that his father was a Greek. Acts 16

Objective/end justifies the means? Paul returned to worthless Jewish law. There are still some "biblical" examples of double standards of deeds and teachings that "GB" and elders of that period have done. Do not ask of me to read Bible for you :)))))))

[Srecko Sostar]

On 10/23/2017 at 20:04, Anna said:

but desires all to attain to repentance

Of course He desires this. But if you go to "for elders eye only - Shepherd book" you will see how term, concept "repentance" have many human explanations, rules, elements about how to "recognize" is it  particular repentance real repentance, from bro or sis who are confronted with elders and/or judicial committee. Here i can comment on your next thought when you wrote...

On 10/23/2017 at 20:04, Anna said:

Who sets that standard? God does of course and he lets people know what these standards are through the pages of the Bible.

Here we have again, that people in own understanding of Gods standard made their interpretation/s on what is "standards" in case of "repentance" and made rules, list on this - what look like real, genuine, sincere repentance. Here we have; 1) man made models of how must repentance look like, and   2) you have few humans who make decision/s for you on their personal, subjective interpretations about how you, as sinner in front them, looks like, do you show "enough"  repentance that is "visible" to them, elders. :))))      

[Arauna]

Sostar, I do not agree.  If someone has committed adultery - do you think they have repented if they repeat the behavior?  I want a yes or no answer please.  

[Arauna]

When Paul circumcised Timothy it is not an example of Paul implementing Jewish Law!  This happened AFTER the governing body in Jerusalem had already decided that NO more circumcision to be done by Christians. Acts 15:6-29

Paul knew in his mind how these Jews were prejudiced against Timothy because they knew his father was Greek - and he wanted Timothy to accompany him on the preaching work to the Jewish people.  So he knew they would not accept Timothy to preach to them - this is why he was practical to circumcise Timothy.  It sets a good example for us to be adaptable when preaching to unbelievers.  BUT later he chastised Peter for hypocrisy when he hypocritically did not eat with Christians who were uncircumcised. Rom2:25-29; Phl3:3

Jehovah required the circumcised Jews to also be circumcised in their hearts: Jer 4:4

[Srecko Sostar]

2 hours ago, Arauna said:

I want a yes or no answer please.  

you are very polite person when you tell, "please". I am giving you  + for that

But you also said, "I want a yes or no answer". I am giving you - for that  

[TrueTomHarley]

20 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

3 hours ago, Arauna said:

 

 

3 hours ago, Arauna said:

I want a yes or no answer please.  

you are very polite person when you tell, "please". I am giving you  + for that 

But you also said, "I want a yes or no answer". I am giving you - for that  

But there is no answer! Will one be forthcoming?

[Srecko Sostar]

3 hours ago, Arauna said:

do you think they have repented if they repeat the behavior? 

If somebody today made a "sin" and after that come to the state of repentance and god forgive him,  he is free from that sin.

If tomorrow he made new"sin" of same kind or another kind and after that come to the state of repentance and god forgive him,  he is free from that sin.

Answer Yes or No have to  come from Above not from me  :)))))))))) please read Bible more frequently and mediate, it will be helpful... maybe. :))))))))   

[TrueTomHarley]

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

If somebody today made a "sin" and after that come to the state of repentance and god forgive him,  he is free from that sin.

If tomorrow he made new"sin" of same kind or another kind and after that come to the state of repentance and god forgive him,  he is free from that sin

There's a 'whole lotta sinnn' that can go on in that way - if even "tomorrow" he will do the same thing again. Is it possible for God to have a clean 'people for his name' - as Acts 15:14 says he should?

It sounds as though you would have his people become as but one team on the football league - not much different than any other. God becomes the loser that way. His name suffers. People look upon Christianity and say 'what good is it? It's just a matter of squabbling over doctrine.'

 

[Anna]

I don't

12 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Jesus eat and drink and seat with his Jewish brothers and sisters who were "sinners", no matter are those people belonged to his domestic congregation of Nazareth or from some other congregation in country of Israel in 1 century. What are you think? With how many disfellowshiped Jew people, disfellowshiped by Jew priests and elders, Jesus made social contacts, talked, eat , said hello on streets, visited them in their homes ...despite  condemnation and reproach he received by priesthood about such way of behavior Jesus showed to his disciples

I am not quite sure what you are implying Jesus did, that we don't so today, but as you say, he condemned the religious leaders because they were far removed from doing God's will, therefor their supposed authority to "disfellowship" had no value or meaning in Jesus's  eyes anyway. He talked to anyone who would listen and gave us a good pattern to follow, in that we will talk to anyone about God's Kingdom, just like Jesus did. My good friend talked to a homeless drug addict for several months, and saw that this person was very receptive to learning about the Bible, so a Bible study was started. Now this homeless drug addict is is no longer homeless, or on drugs, but is one of our sisters.

When Elders disfellowship someone from the Congregation, they do so with the authority from the scriptures. In order to have God's favor and in order to be used by God those who represent him must be morally and spiritually clean i.e. the whole congregation, otherwise as Jesus says, he would remove his favor. Rev 2:5, Jesus also said he hated the deeds of the sect of Nicolaus (which was probably trying to infiltrate the congregation). So it does matter to Jesus and God whether the congregation is morally and spiritually clean or not. "“Remove the wicked person from among yourselves.” (1 Cor 5:13)

Of course elders must not become like Diotrephes:  "I wrote something to the congregation, but Di·otʹre·phes, who likes to have the first place among them, does not accept anything from us with respect.That is why if I come, I will call attention to the works he is doing in spreading malicious talk about us. Not being content with this, he refuses to welcome the brothers with respect; and those who want to welcome them, he tries to hinder and to throw out of the congregation: (3 John 9-10)

[Arauna]

Sostar:  you apply the Bible to suit yourself.  I read my Bible and the Bible says you must NOT sin but if you make mistake then we have the ransom of Jesus to cover for us.

"My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. ⁴ He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. ⁵ But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. ²⁹ If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him." 1john 2:

 

I preached to preacher long time ago....his wife hated his behavior and used to want to leave the church but it was their livelihood.  He used to do bad things, break the marriage contract with other men and women - then he confesses in front of whole church every week and then everyone is forgiven.  His church members did the same - they do what they want and then confess in front of everyone and all is forgiven....... You think that God approves of this? Is this true repentance? ..... or does repentance mean that we have to stop doing the bad things and get new personality made in way of God.

 

Eph 4:

¹⁷ This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of^[d] the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind, ¹⁸ having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart; ¹⁹ who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

²⁰ But you have not so learned Christ, ²¹ if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: ²² that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, ²³ and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, ²⁴ and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.

³⁰ And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

 

So - according to the above - would you say that a person repeating same bad things over - is he a good person to have around children as an example? Yes or No please

[Srecko Sostar]

12 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

God becomes the loser that way

If it would be permitted to me say this way - God already become "loser" at the moment when spiritual creations (angels) and earthly creations (humans) rejected Him.  

Analogy: WT said how JW members not need to try to "fix" this World, because it is predestined to destruction in Armagedon. But at the same time, they said how JHVH done everything to fix that same World by his mercy, left Adam and Eve to live and have children, giving His son to die for sinners of this World. Waiting to JWorg preaching ministry and after that he will finally make solution :))   

And you, Anna and Arauna have problem with "sinners" inside JWorg and those who are outside. By the way you judged other God will judge you. So please continue with your perception about self-righteous and minimized your own "sins" whatever they are, "big or small". Big or small according JWorg teaching, because you adopted such understanding of sin and repentance.

Instead of being grateful that Jesus' sacrifice covers every one of yours, our sins - single one or repeated one - you try to put own righteous and judgement above Jesus sacrifice. How can you be so unreasonable?  Cutting the branch you're sitting on!  Or you are not aware of your own repeated sins?