JW's mistaken claim...

[TrueTomHarley]

6 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

In the King James Version, UNICORNS are frequently mentioned .... NINE TIMES ... because King James

I never quite know what from you is kidding and what is real. But you are not given to making specific inaccurate statements. So...does it really say it nine times? Where?

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

TTH:

I am glad to supply specific quotes for the suppositions I make.

I expect EVERY SINGLE WORD I write to be challenged ... if I am making a Biblical supposition.

This is the way it SHOULD be !

By the way   . all the links in blue type work ... at least from my computer ... so you can CHECK it in the KJV, in context .... the full chapter ...  as well as in other versions of the Bible.

I have a pronounced penchant for satire and parody, but not for misrepresenting the Bible ... only stuff where cultural indoctrination represented as TRUTH supplants facts

 

Daniel 8:5 [Full Chapter]

And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.

Bible search results

Numbers 23:22

God brought them out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn.

In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Numbers 24:8

God brought him forth out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn: he shall eat up the nations his enemies, and shall break their bones, and pierce them through with his arrows.

In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Deuteronomy 33:17

His glory is like the firstling of his bullock, and his horns are like the horns of unicorns: with them he shall push the people together to the ends of the earth: and they are the ten thousands of Ephraim, and they are the thousands of Manasseh.

In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Job 39:9

Will the unicorn be willing to serve thee, or abide by thy crib?

In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Job 39:10

Canst thou bind the unicorn with his band in the furrow? or will he harrow the valleys after thee?

In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Psalm 22:21

Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.

In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Psalm 29:6

He maketh them also to skip like a calf; Lebanon and Sirion like a young unicorn.

In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Psalm 92:10

But my horn shalt thou exalt like the horn of an unicorn: I shall be anointed with fresh oil.

In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Isaiah 34:7

And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness.

In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

... and Cos... you stand on the shoulders of giants, and believe what you believe down to the very marrow of your bones ... but your giants are wrong, and so are you.

That's why I posted the picture of the Indian trinity.

Christendom adopted all things pagan .... and then "forgot".

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

3 hours ago, Cos said:

Interlinear Bible by Jay P. Green Sr.

.... placekeeper for future comment.

[Space Merchant]

You can't see the forest for its trees,  can you, Cos? A typical Trinitarian never stems to far from the pack, will do anything to cover his or her tracks, which you are doing right now. Just like James White and those who follow him and those who take his word more than what the scriptures say.

Proverbs 12:1 - Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, but whoever hates correction is stupid.

As for your post, of course you would say that, and I am right as I said before, you don't really read into much what any book says, you ignore bits and pieces of what others what is written, even going as far as to merge paragraphs together, you ignore what people say, especially me (Luke 24:52/Acts 1 and 2, Proskuneos, Shema, ignoring "Light' in John 1 etc) and I am right to say what I said about you assuming what is found in book 4, chapter 20 of Against Heresies.

As for your response, I will leave every bit of information, evidence, of such an accusation you make against me vs what you said, so everyone here can see who is right and who is wrong. Me myself, I don't make contradictions, I don't "add" words like you or mix things together, I don't accept something "As Is" like you and most Trinitarian/Binitarians and I don't try to twist writings or Scripture (i.e. John 1:1-10, Luke 24:52, etc), etc.

Now then, let us begin to what you have stated for there is ample proof against you, cos:

11 hours ago, Cos said:

I said on January 20;

 

On 1/20/2018 at 7:06 AM, Cos said:

Irenaeus marks the identification of the Holy Spirit as a person just as the Son is a person when he writes;  “the Son and the Holy Spirit, the Word and Wisdom; whom all the angels serve, and to whom they are subject.” (Against Heresies, book 4, chapter 7)

 

Note carefully that my above statement does NOT contain the word “eternal”!

Here you are, stating you never mentioned the word "eternal", but it seems you didn't even read of what you even typed right below that comment of yours, which I will address shortly.

As for your January 20th response to my January 24th response this is exactly what I said to you regarding this response:

Quote

We see here again in Chapter 4, of which you only pulled a portion of said paragraph, not realizing, once again, what Irenaeus was talking about, allow me to post that paragraph so you can see for yourself. Also with all due respect, Irenaeus indeed identified the Holy Spirit as a Person (said spirit has no personality whatsoever), however, never once did he claim that it was God, or that it, the Son and the Father are “selfsame” (remember this word for what you will see later) in this specific paragraph, as you claim:

Therefore have the Jews departed from God, in not receiving His Word, but imagining that they could know the Father [apart] by Himself, without the Word, that is, without the Son; they being ignorant of that God who spake in human shape to Abraham, and again to Moses, saying, "I have surely seen the affliction of My people in Egypt, and I have come down to deliver them." For the Son, who is the Word of God, arranged these things beforehand from the beginning, the Father being in no want of angels, in order that He might call the creation into being, and form man, for whom also the creation was made; nor, again, standing in need of any instrumentality for the framing of created things, or for the ordering of those things which had reference to man; while, [at the same time, ] He has a vast and unspeakable number of servants. For His offspring and His similitude do minister to Him in every respect; that is, the Son and the Holy Spirit, the Word and Wisdom; whom all the angels serve, and to whom they are subject. Vain, therefore, ark those who, because of that declaration, "No man knoweth the Father, but the Son," do introduce another unknown Father. - (Against Heresies, book 4, chapter 7, p.4)

 

On to the next one.

You are correct that you said what you said on January 28, which is:

Quote

You claim that I just “pull portions” from what Irenaeus writes as if doing so were wrong in some way, even thought you recognize that what I said is correct for you acknowledge that “Irenaeus indeed identified the Holy Spirit as a Person”, but it is you who doesn’t agree with Irenaeus on this… so how can you attribute Unitarianism to Irenaeus?

 

My response:

Quote

You do pull portions from his books, like what you stated “Jesus in book 3, chapter 19 that Jesus is “God, and Lord, and King Eternal”?” ignoring of what Irenaeus said about the Father in that same chapter, let alone the one before and after it.

It is only right to get full context of Book 3, Chapter 19, and paragraph 2, especially when in his book, Irenaeus differentiate God as a Deity and Jesus as a deity. Just because he says God in terms of Jesus does not automatically conclude that he believes Jesus is God the Father, if that were the case it would contradict every work he has ever done. To assume he thinks that Jesus is a literal God (above his Father) is like assuming that a Christian can also be God.

Then I said the following:

Quote

That being said, on to your next claim, my response was regarding you previous claim, which you said:

Irenaeus establishes the Holy Spirit as a distinct, eternal person alongside the Father and the Logos. “For with Him (the Father) were always present the Word and Wisdom, the Son and the Spirit…” (Against Heresies, book 4, chapter 20).

I never made such a claim, for I have stated that Irenaeus never stated that the Holy Spirit was or is an “Eternal Person”, as you said, not Irenaeus. I also went on to say that Irenaeus in this chapter explained how God’s power, Holy Spirit (also known as Spirit of God; His [YHWH] Wisdom); things made by God, in addition to what is said about Jerusalem.

If you are feeling bold, I invite you to show everyone here, me included, here as to where exactly in Chapter 20, Book 4 that you claim Irenaeus stated the following from your claim: Holy Spirit as a distinct, eternal person alongside the Father and the Logos.

Which does not contradict to my previous response on the 24th, when I stated that Irenaeus never said "Eternal Person" in that book's chapter, which you claim to have found such in (ignoring the fact that I have read all 5 books and I have access to them).

You claim that I am making contradictions when I am making a reference to one of your comments, I would not have mentioned what I said if I didn't see it, unfortunately for you, I have seen it, and I make a remark to what you have said because you did say it and I will bring it up whenever I choose if need be. And if you want proof of this, allow me to show you.

You stated the following (January 20th): Irenaeus establishes the Holy Spirit as a distinct, eternal person alongside the Father and the Logos. “For with Him (the Father) were always present the Word and Wisdom, the Son and the Spirit…”(Against Heresies, book 4, chapter 20)

My response was (January 24th): https://imgur.com/I4n32ys Irenaeus establishes in Chapter 20 that the Holy Spirit, that is his Wisdom, was God's power that was used to create man and all things, for he made all things through both the word and wisdom, nowhere in Chapter 20 did he establish, specifically, the Holy Spirit was an “Eternal Person”.

My other response, which I make reference to your claim (February 2nd): I never made such a claim, for I have stated that Irenaeus never stated that the Holy Spirit was or is an “Eternal Person”, as you said, not Irenaeus. I also went on to say that Irenaeus in this chapter explained how God’s power, Holy Spirit (also known as Spirit of God; His [YHWH] Wisdom); things made by God, in addition to what is said about Jerusalem.

If you are feeling bold, I invite you to show everyone here, me included, here as to where exactly in Chapter 20, Book 4 that you claim Irenaeus stated the following from your claim: Holy Spirit as a distinct, eternal person alongside the Father and the Logos.

 

 

As for the proof that you said "Eternal Person" (or adding Eternal to the word Person) spreading falsehood of said book/chapter:

It can be found here, I direct link to your post of which you stated that Irenaeus mentioned "Eternal Person" in Against Heresies book 4, chapter 20: 

Just to add a little more salt to the wound, I will even post a small image so everyone here can see you said this yourself, and I did not alter or add on to what you have said: https://imgur.com/yAuCJgZ

A screenshot of your own words if you are still in disbelief: https://imgur.com/F6gckCa

To deny yourself of your own words makes you a lair, not sure if you even noticed what you said or attempt to deliberately ignore it. But it says much about a guy who doesn't understand such works like Against Heresies (5 books not 6).

 

So here now, I wonder who really belongs to the father, the devil, as you mentioned John 8:44 so boldly at the end. I hope you repent and pray about it, but seeing you believe in a "Triune God", I guess it must be like a multiple choice thing for you, since you consider the Father, the Son, and the Spirit as God (3 Gods in one) and taking away devoted religious worship and total servitude to the True God and consider the worship of the Son (makes you no different from the common "Arian" who practice Jesus religious worship today).

As for everyone here, I will give a direct link to Irenaeus' Book 4, Chapter 20: http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103420.htm

to which Cos here had stated the following on his January 20th post:

https://imgur.com/F6gckCa

https://imgur.com/yAuCJgZ

Irenaeus marks the identification of the Holy Spirit as a person just as the Son is a person when he writes; “the Son and the Holy Spirit, the Word and Wisdom; whom all the angels serve, and to whom they are subject.” (Against Heresies, book 4, chapter 7)

Irenaeus establishes the Holy Spirit as a distinct, eternal person alongside the Father and the Logos. “For with Him (the Father) were always present the Word and Wisdom, the Son and the Spirit…”(Against Heresies, book 4, chapter 20)

 

I will also post Book 4, Chapter 7: http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103407.htm For Cos's other claims.

Misc: https://imgur.com/eIT7fca https://imgur.com/2coilot https://imgur.com/xsE4P7z https://imgur.com/toNG20O https://imgur.com/F6gckCa

FYI, you made comment to this bible verse Colossians 2:9 to James Thomas Rook Jr. The Father and the Christ dwells in True Christians too:

We see this in the very next verse (literally)

Colossians 2:10 - and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority.

It also says it in this verse

In Ephesians 3:19 - and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.

For The same FULLNESS of deity dwells in all true Christians.

This is why we, as Christians, thank the True God, for our Lord, Jesus Christ.

Colossians 1:3 (Thanksgiving and Prayer) - We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you,

 

PS: there is more to Revelations than you realize, but I will save you the trouble and will response to Robert instead, since you stated: I will not waste anymore of my time addressing your dishonest claims any further!

 

 

Consider yourself confuted.

[Space Merchant]

3 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I never quite know what from you is kidding and what is real. But you are not given to making specific inaccurate statements. So...does it really say it nine times? Where?

Hes refering to what is only used in the King James Verison of the Bible. I remember finding this stuff out myself and seeing memes about it.

The 9 verses as as followed:

• Numbers 23:22    “God brought them out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn.”

• Numbers 24:8     “God brought him forth out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn: he shall eat up the nations his enemies, and shall break their bones, and pierce them through with his arrows.”

• Job 39:9   “Will the unicorn be willing to serve thee, or abide by thy crib?”

• Job 39:10    “Canst thou bind the unicorn with his band in the furrow? or will he harrow the valleys after thee?”

• Psalms 29:6     “He maketh them also to skip like a calf; Lebanon and Sirion like a young unicorn.”

• Psalms 92:10    “But my horn shalt thou exalt like the horn of an unicorn: I shall be anointed with fresh oil.”

• Deuteronomy 33:17    “His glory is like the firstling of his bullock, and his horns are like the horns of unicorns: with them he shall push the people together to the ends of the earth: and they are the ten thousands of Ephraim, and they are the thousands of Manasseh.”

• Psalms 22:21    “Save me from the lionÂ’s mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.”

• Isaiah 34:7     “And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness.”

Unicorns are not mentioned in any of the modern translations. Only in the King James version are they mentioned. Most of the modern translations say “wild ox.” Some translations even say “buffalo.”

 

So as for this "Unicorn" it is not like how this image shows lol (well it is the first thing that comes to mind when someone sees the word)  

 

The reality is,Unicorn is an animal with one horn; the monoceros. this name is often applied to the rhinoceros, or simply a Rhino or like an Ox with horn(s).

 

 

It is also said that the kjv bible has used "Satyr", those mythological humanoid creatures with goat leg/feet and their upper bodies being normal human. I haven't look into it, but perhaps you guys can, I just know more about the Unicorns found in the KJV.

[Space Merchant]

23 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

 

REVELATION 1:1-2

1 The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, ² who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. "

GOD GAVE  ------>> TO JESUS

...

get it?

I will provide information in regards to this later since the other guy danced himself into a corner, but that is correct, but this is just the surface of many things found in the book of Revelations, especially in regards to John's vision in Revelations that I am sure a majority of us knows quite well.

 

That being said it also revolves around why Jesus is the firstborn from the dead and the firstfruits of the new creation (the new heavens and the new earth that is clear of wickedness) in addition to God given authority and when God exalted him.

[TrueTomHarley]

7 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

 

I expect EVERY SINGLE WORD I write to be challenged ... if I am making a Biblical supposition.

In this particular instance, I was not challenging you. (in all other instances, I am)

I was sincere in what i said. I think you are as screwy as they come, but I would never think you would deliberately misquote a scripture.

I never doubted that the KJV said unicorns if you said it did. I just wanted to know where those instances were.

Thanks, too, to @Space Merchant

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Even people that think their lot in life is to be a hammer, and when sneaking up behind you, seeing  every one as a nail .....  pause when they see someone with a Phillips Head.

(All guys will recognize the reference ... women, not so much)

.... that's when you turn, and get off a shot.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I never doubted that the KJV said unicorns if you said it did. I just wanted to know where those instances were.

I am ashamed of you TTH .... you should always doubt the ones who you trust.

Especially .... ESPECIALLY the ones you trust.

Like P.T Barnum's sign in the freak show, when paying customers were waiting ( ... and not PAYING ) for the circus tent to clear out so they could go inside ... and P.T. was losing money ...

"This way to the Egress ! ---->>"

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

People you trust have a tendency to get you nodding in agreement ... then they ask for your wallet ... and don't even have the DECENCY ... to use a gun.

[Space Merchant]

18 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

In this particular instance, I was not challenging you. (in all other instances, I am)

I was sincere in what i said. I think you are as screwy as they come, but I would never think you would deliberately misquote a scripture.

I never doubted that the KJV said unicorns if you said it did. I just wanted to know where those instances were.

Thanks, too, to @Space Merchant

Anytime. The KJV and NKJV are the oddballs of bible translations.