Jump to content
The World News Media

Furuli's new e-book: "My Beloved Religion - And The Governing Body"

Ann O'Maly

Recommended Posts

  • Member
3 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Perhaps you are also misunderstanding Furuli's new book if you have aquired one. Therefore, the Watchtower was promoting the 6000 years in the mid-1970's not a false hope that continues to be a false talking point.

This is funny. Let tell us please, when and how will WT stop to promote "overlapping generation" scheme (very connected to "the end of World" ideology as was the 1975 too), and start to point to some individuals in organization who were over zeal in their attempts, how to explain and prolong life to "Generation of 1914" failed doctrine ?  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Views 24.5k
  • Replies 692
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

I brought it up because it's one of several places where Furuli's book provides the exact type of anecdote I am familiar with. These types of interactions were evidently memorable and important to Fur

In this world nothing is perfect because humans tend to overstep boundaries - even Moses did so. But if we are really prepared to give our life for another (spirit of christ), then reading our bi

If it was JWI, you’d still be reading it.  Because that “merely” is a pretty big merely.  What if my roof caves in tomorrow and I decide it’s God’s fault? What if I park on the Kingdom H

Posted Images

  • Member
14 hours ago, 4Jah2me said:

I presume you have every paper copy of every magazine from 1966 through 1975, to prove your point. 

Other wise you have no proof. That one article proves nothing. The CCJW back track all the time. 

I think Cesar just skiped magazines from previous period, from, let say 1968 onward :))

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
7 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Binged two seasons last year.

I feel so low-class. My wife and I have rediscovered Perry Mason.

The show is historically accurate, though. There were cars with such tail fins. Last night Perry impaled the villain on one of them just after he confessed and tried to flee the courtroom.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
11 hours ago, César Chávez said:

Yes, the speculation, there were several misinformed witnesses that didn't understand what the 6000 years meant.

In those years they, JW's, understand what was normal to understand according to "accurate knowledge" of those time. "One day" is 7000 years. Human existence of 6000 years will end in 1975. After that period of 6000 years, 1000 years kingdom will rule and 7th Day will be closed with renewed Paradise on Earth. Clear and simple reasoning for organization in those period of time. And now you said that is wrong. :)))

 Yes, organization know that same thing NOW, too. But then, in 1960'es "the truth" was different, not so advanced as today. Light lamp was under the table.:)))

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
On 5/26/2020 at 8:54 PM, César Chávez said:

Perhaps you are also misunderstanding Furuli's new book if you have aquired one. Therefore, the Watchtower was promoting the 6000 years in the mid-1970's not a false hope that continues to be a false talking point.

I agree that, by 1974, F.W.Franz was ready to start "walking back" the expectations he had been speculating about. When I came to Bethel in 1976, there was already a lot of whispering that FWF had lost some of his former glory as the Oracle. He had become the "King Saul" when people began to say: When King Saul dies then things will change.” And this was in large part because he had spent so many years "doubling down" on 1975, whenever he was questioned about it. 

In 1976 F.W.Franz had produced a book called "Our Incoming World Government - God's Kingdom." It was released in 1977. There were whispers that this was his way of getting "back in the saddle" because it contained the kind of information that no one else at Bethel was supposedly capable of, or would dare try to produce. I have a very early copy of this book from one of the Bethel proofreaders (a sister). It contains a curious artifact in the margin, which always reminds me of how this book was seen by some Bethelites in 1977. It's just the simple question in red pencil: "ask?."  It wouldn't mean much to most anyone else, but this was probably the first book ever written by FWF that was sometimes "scoffed" at within the Bethel walls. I heard some of that scoffing myself. The question in the margin was not part of that scoffing. The book was scoffed at for statements like the following:

*** go chap. 8 p. 137 par. 36 Marked Days During the “Time of the End” ***
According to the Bible, those 1,290 days are the equivalent of three lunar years and seven lunar months. According to the lunar calendar, January 18, 1919, fell on Shebat 17, 1919. Three lunar years from then would lead up to Shebat 17, 1922, or February 15, 1922. Seven lunar months counted from that would end with Elul 16, 1922, or at sundown, September 9, 1922

Even fellow members of the Governing Body, at least two, and probably four or more (D.S./A.S./E.C./R.F) thought that the 1975 failure would be a chance to "start from scratch" with all these dates from 1918, 1919, 1922, etc. It was D.S. who used the exact expression that we should "just start from scratch" on chronology.

If you listened to FWF at Bethel breakfast you could see he was trying to regain his "throne" as the respected Oracle. And he was still taking subtle swipes at the idea of a Governing Body, as he had been doing since 1972 or so, and most directly in the September 1975 talk that The Librarian referenced above. Note how FWF, for the first time, changes Jehovah's title to "Governor" in Chapter 2, which is called "The Governor Who Knows the End from the Beginning."

*** go chap. 2 pp. 33-34 pars. 36-37 The Governor Who Knows the End from the Beginning ***
He . . .  with himself as the Supreme Governor. . . . Hence he is “the One telling from the beginning the finale.” He is the Governor who knows the end from the beginning. . . .
   In the very book with which the Bible begins, at Genesis 3:15, the Almighty Governor of all creation made known his basic thought . . . . In the very book with which the Bible ends, at Revelation 11:15-18, the rightful Governor over all mankind gives prophetic description of his take-over of his long-suspended governorship . . .

Other examples from the book are typical of the kind of writing from FWF, that even the proofreaders would likely have been hesitant to question if it looked like a possible mistake. I mention this because the following quote is the location in the proofreader's copy which has a red pencil question mark by the number 605, with the word "ask?" in the margin.

*** go chap. 3 p. 39 par. 4 Predicted World Changes up till God’s Kingdom ***
Human society so deeply divided politically as it is today, and has been since World War I, was not forevisioned indeed by shortsighted man. But are we aware that this political state of human affairs was prophetically illustrated more than 2,580 years ago, or about the year 605 before our Common Era?

I don't know if she ever asked. But you can just see the wheels turning in her head: 2520 prior to Oct 1914 was Tishri 607, so 2,580 years from 607 was Oct 1974. So Tishri 605 was 2578 years prior to Oct 1974, and this book is being proofread in late 1976 or early 1977. This would mean that if the Daniel 2 dream (referred to here) was very late in 605, getting close to 604, then this book might potentially be released a couple of months "less than", not, "more than" 2,580 years ago. No big deal. But wouldn't it be better to say "about 2,580 years ago" instead of "more than"? And why be so teasingly pedantic in the first place?

But where did he (FWF) even get the date 605 for the Daniel 2 dream? 

 The idea is from Daniel 2 about the second year of Nebuchadnezzar:

(Daniel 2:1) . . .In the second year of his kingship, Neb·u·chad·nezʹzar had a number of dreams. . .

This is for another topic, but it's all about the controversy over whether Daniel would have begun counting from one of the major exiles, or from his own exile, if different, or from the normal way of counting the rulership of a king. Note the discrepancies below:

*** w00 5/15 p. 12 par. 17 Pay Attention to God’s Prophetic Word for Our Day ***
During the second year of Nebuchadnezzar’s reign as world ruler of Bible prophecy (606/605 B.C.E.), God sent him a terrifying dream. According to Daniel chapter 2 . . .

*** it-2 p. 457 Nabonidus ***
Discussing events in the 20th year of Nebuchadnezzar (Nisan 605-Nisan 604 B.C.E.)

And this is based on the WTS chronology system, and doesn't even take into account the actual date of Nebuchadnezzar's reign, matching the Biblical record, and based on thousands of pieces of archaeological and historical evidence:

*** kc p. 188 Appendix to Chapter 14 ***
Later writers quote Berossus as saying that after the battle of Carchemish Nebuchadnezzar extended Babylonian influence into all Syria-Palestine and, when returning to Babylon (in his accession year, 605 B.C.E.), he took Jewish captives into exile.

In fact, FWF's 1977 book, just a bit further down from the 2,580 quote above, spells out the standard WTS chronology, except that I don't know where FWF got the info that Nebuchadnezzar was part of the overthrow of "632" seven years years before his WTS accession year AND twenty-seven years before his actual accession year. The first mention anyone knows of for Nebuchadnezzar is about 607 BCE (or 627 WTS dating) which is about 5 years after the assumption below:

*** go chap. 3 pp. 48-49 pars. 25-26 Predicted World Changes up till God’s Kingdom ***
In 632 B.C.E. Nebuchadnezzar shared in overthrowing the Assyrian World Power and thereby set up the Neo-Babylonian Empire, which ranked as the Third World Power of Bible record.—Nahum 2:8 through 3:18; Zephaniah 2:13.
About twenty-five years later, after Emperor Nebuchadnezzar was used as Jehovah’s instrument to destroy unfaithful Jerusalem, the prophet Daniel’s words applied: “Into [your] hand he [the God of heaven] has given, wherever the sons of mankind are dwelling, the beasts of the field and the winged creatures of the heavens, and [you] he has made ruler over all of them.” (Daniel 2:38) This was the case, because, with the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians in 607 B.C.E., a typical kingdom of Jehovah God ceased to exist on earth.

FWF gave indications in 1977 and 1978 that he was not reacting well to the push-back on this 1977 book. His "morning worship" comments began to take smart-aleck  pot-shots at those who were not lapping up the "food in due season." The attitude was similar to the time when he expressed his anger at those who thought Jesus was the mediator of every "Tom, Dick, and Harry."   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
On 5/26/2020 at 8:54 PM, César Chávez said:

Perhaps you are also misunderstanding Furuli's new book if you have aquired one. Therefore, the Watchtower was promoting the 6000 years in the mid-1970's not a false hope that continues to be a false talking point.

There is no misunderstanding of Furuli here. He distances himself very well from the 1975 speculation. Not completely, but he apparently understood it a little better than some District Overseers in the United States. I'm wondering if part of it wasn't the understanding of the verb modal "would." He pins a lot of the correct understanding on that English word. In the United States there may have been more people who read the word "would" as having a slightly stronger meaning.

I have also used the words, "the time is short," in talks as a circuit and district
overseer. But I have never asked the audience to stop with this or that because the time
is short. As the district overseer from 1972 to 1974, I was the principal speaker at all the
circuit assemblies in Norway, and my talks would naturally influence the view of the
Witnesses regarding the year 1975. In 1966,when the book Life Everlasting in the Freedom
of the Sons of God was published, there was a course for circuit servants at the branch
office. When we discussed the book, I remember that the branch servant said that we
should never say that Armageddon would come in 1975 or before that year, because we
cannot know that. He pointed to some words on page 30 of the book: "It would not be
by mere chance or accident but would be according to the loving purpose of Jehovah
God for the reign of Jesus Christ, 'the Lord of the Sabbath' to run parallel with the
seventh millennium of man's existence."
The verb "would" shows that this is a possible
but a hypothetical situation. I still have the notes for my talks, and the viewpoint that I
presented in my talks was as follows: 'We do not know when the end will come. But we
are eager to see if the 6,000 years of man's existence run parallel with the 6,000 years of
Yehowa's day of rest! If we can free some time and do more in the preaching work,
even become full-time preachers, while we are looking at the unfolding of world events
down to 1975, that would be very fine. But we should not commit ourselves to the year
1975 or another year. But as we do today, we should have balanced plans for ourselves
and our family that go beyond the year 1975, while we live normal lives and serve
Yehowa wholeheartedly.' [emphasis mine]

My uncle who was in Circuit work at the time, got a different sense of the word "would" in his meetings/training which came from the D.O. in his case. C.Chavez son of D.O. (aka Allen) and scholar JW have both claimed "jp" correctly ties JABrown GT to 2520, It doesn't. Yet, actual parallel zw. 7th mil and JC's 1k yr reign? No connex!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member

At the beginning of Furuli's book there is a paragraph referring to a certain letter sent to {the congregations? the elders?} The paragraph in question says:

The letter of 15 June 2018 changed this situation:
We would like to inform you of an updated policy with regard to
whether a Christian may administer a blood transfusion if he is directed
to do so by a superior. The previous policy was that it would be a matter
for a personal, conscientious decision whether to obey such an order.
However, after carefully reviewing the matter, the Governing Body has
determined that administering such a transfusion is so closely linked
with an unscriptural practice that one unquestionably becomes an
accomplice in a wrong practice. Therefore, it would not be appropriate
for a Christian to administer a blood transfusion under any
circumstance.—Gen. 9:4; Acts 15:28, 29.4

I would like to mention that I cannot find this letter. I have looked again in the letters to the elders section of our branch in Spain, but I have not found it. I am not saying at all that Furuli is not truthful, only that I cannot find this letter. Maybe someone could help me out ...


Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
4 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

My wife and I have rediscovered

I just watch old movies for entertainment - safer than modern stuff. They have better characterization and plots as well. These days many stories are superficial and use special effects for interest.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
21 hours ago, JW Insider said:

the book gives evidence of rushed last-minute organization and some sloppy editing. There is a lot of unnecessary repetition, and a couple of mistakes and typos.

This is reassuring to me. My books have suffered from this, too, and one of them positively reeked with errors, which took forever to ferret out. Several times I announced that all corrections had been made, only to find more blips.

Not long ago, I purchased a homeopathy books from someone supposedly renowned. I was amazed as how slipshod was the formatting, and how much beneficial editing could have been done but wasn’t.

It is a sign of the ebook times, and I am reassured that even Rulf the scholar is afflicted with it. Ideally, you proof a work with professionals, but that is pricey and with ebooks being so cheap, with no guarantee of sales, either you do it yourself or ask well-meaning (but essentially hobbyist) friends to help you out. It is a far more daunting task than it first appears to do it yourself, because you tend to read, not what is there, but what you recall being there. You can do tolerably well for a short article, but if we are speaking of an entire book—good l**k on that!

I even face an additional challenge. If I ask brothers who might be in position to help me out to do so, many will be unconfortable with the material and duck out. It’s frustrating. If I wrote a book about how the Easter Bunny was pagan, they would be lined up 5-deep to proof it, but if I confine myself to what seems more interesting, it is not that way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member

Quote @Anna 

Again, there has to be organizational leadership in order for an organization to function, and there even has to be spiritual leadership, leading by example. But is it right for one man, or group of men, to have exclusive monopoly on the INTERPRETATION of scripture, but more importantly should this group have the right to insist that everyone accepts only their interpretation, and if not, they may be denied membership, or if they are already members it will be counted as "treason" and they will be ex-communicated (in our society we no longer chop peoples heads off) and ordered to live like outcasts, outlaws, banished and shunned by the whole community as they know it, including relatives. It sounds to me like something from my movie. Is this the model Jesus had in mind? I repeat, as a group, the GB are untouchable because they have enough support from "subjects". Remove that support and they are "nothing". But didn't Jesus say we should support one another, and come to the aid of our brothers?

Can we examine this paragraph please. 

1. Organisational leadership. Over practical things yes. 

2. Spiritual leadership. This can only be done by those who are guided directly by God, through Christ, through Holy spirit. It creates a problem when men decide for themselves that THEY are God's spokespersons. 

3. Monopoly on interpretation of scripture. The problem seems to have been that 'men' have given false interpretations. And those 'men' have made themselves false prophets. 

4. Their interpretation. To me this is a dictatorship. And if you add the fact that 'their interpretation' of scripture will differ to suit their own needs, then it becomes an insult to God and Christ. 

5. Treason / D/fed. To my mind this confirms the dictatorship.  Wrongful use of excommunicating 

6. Live like Outcasts / Shunned by all JWs.  This is one reason I think JWs should be issued with a 'Rule book' which they should be allowed to read BEFORE getting baptised. As a person that is 'suffering' such I would like to read it in the rules to see what it actually says, and to see what scriptures it is based on.  

7. Is this the model Jesus had in mind ?  Having the 'mind of Christ'.  This is where I mention time and time again, about lack of spirituality. 

8. the GB are untouchable because they have enough support from "subjects" Wrong, It is not support it is fear. Just look at what you have mentioned above, it proves fear.  It reminds me of the German Army. I don't think those men wanted to kill so many people, but they were frightened not to. To some outsiders it would look as if they were supporting Hitler, but in reality the soldiers were frightened of him. So it is with the GB, they may look to be supported, but the brothers and sisters live in fear of being disfellowshipped which is like death to them. 

9.  Remove that support and they are "nothing. I've been saying this for a long time. If congregants  stopped their donations completely, and stopped attending KH meetings, then the GB 'might' start to have a re-think. Doubtful though as their hearts seem to have hardened against their own people, just like the Jewish religious leaders.  

10. Come to the aid of our brothers. The GB have stopped acting like brothers. They have exalted themselves above all of God's servants. Congregants are now frightened of the Elders and more so of the GB. The GB have made up 'rules of men' and 'traditions of men'. 

11. But didn't Jesus say we should support one another, Re-read your paragraph. Do you see any support from the GB ? Or do you see heavy loads put on congregants shoulders and the GB not lifting one finger to help ? 

There are Anointed ones Earthwide. Almighty God will use them when HE is ready to use them. Either the CCJW will be cleansed and re-organised, or, God, through Christ,will form another organisation. 


Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Popular Contributors

  • Topics

  • Posts

  • Members

  • Recent Status Updates

    • AudreyAnnaNana

      Status Update, just for fun...if anyone is bored and wants something to read, here are some communications that show one example of how a disfellowshipping works. The emails are not posted in order, you have to look at the dates to figure out the order it happened in.😊



      · 1 reply
    • AudreyAnnaNana

      What an exciting evening! (Sorry if it rambles...)
      I was scared because I had to go into the "shark tank." Jehovah and Jesus went with me, and they totally rocked it!😆
      The COBE elder that kicked me out of the assembly a couple of weeks ago was so angry tonight! (He's kinda like Haman.)
      My husband is PIMI but he only attends about half the meetings. He calls me an apostate and gets mad if I say anything that isn't what the GB says. He didn't go to meeting tonight. I don't let my kids go to the KH unless I go, so the kids and I usually watch the meetings online. I didn't know if they would let me and the kids into the KH. (Since they just evicted us from the assembly a couple weeks ago at lunch because I talked to people and looked like I was happy and joyful.) As we were approaching the door of the KH tonight, the doorman saw me and let it slam shut and through the window I could see him, possibly looking for permission from an elder to see if I was "banned" or not. I knocked, and the visiting CO#2 cut in front of the doorman, opened up to let me in, escorting me right past the doorman! ("Jehovah Factor"😄)
      (There were two COs because I guess one was getting a "shepherding visit week" from the other one...)
      The CO#2 was awesome, a really kind gentleman who acted like a shepherd. CO#1 didn't recognize me at first because during his last visit I didn't attend because I thought the trespassing ban was still in place (although it had been removed but the COBE conveniently forgot to tell me. I found out when I went to his house just before the Memorial to ask, since they never respond to any messages I send either by email or letter.)
      (Incidentally, I wrote in an earlier Status Update about my experiences running into the CO#1 at the assembly a couple of weeks ago...)
      As soon as we got in the KH, the regular Pharisee-types were shocked and dismayed and frowned because my presence is worse than if a contagious yowling leper came in. However, the CO#1 started asking my kids' names, and the elder standing there conveniently forgot how to talk so the CO went through the greetings and asked me my name and I chatted with him for a moment. He figured out who I was after a bit and I think he was a little shocked. (I have written to him plenty about the stuff going on in the congregation - he never replies.)
      So, we walked toward the auditorium and put our stuff down in the middle of the second row from the front. My kids wanted to see their friends, and I got up to walk around a little too. When I passed by CO#2, he stopped me and kindly asked me my name. (The COBE and his wife were standing right next to him.) I answered the COs questions, and we chatted and he asked where else I was from and if I was doing hospitality at all during the week. I told him I came to support the CO visit, and that I would keep him in my prayers. He was so nice. I asked him for a hug, and he gave me a hug. All this time, the COBE and his wife had steam coming out of their ears almost, and finally the COBE grabbed the CO and said "Excuse me! She's been disfellowshipped for a year!" And the CO thought he was joking! So he laughed and said something like "oh, yeah, that's funny" and then the COBE said, "No, really!" And I said, "He is a liar." Because the COBE is a liar. He bears false witness about all kinds of things. And I walked to my seat.
      The meeting started shortly after. The kids and I sang heartily so everyone could hear our joy and affection for Jehovah. The hypocritical COBE was called up to pray. I did not bow my head. I kept my eyes open. That man is a snake. I refuse to say "Amen" to anything he has to say.
      During the Bible gems my kids got to comment. I put my hand up several times too, and everybody nearly had a heart attack. (Is there a rule that says a "disfellowshipped" person can't raise their hand?) Of course, they didn't call on me.
      The second song was a nice loud march. We've always been told to sing loud. I am obedient to that good counsel.
      The CO#1s talk started off pleasant enough. Until he mentioned the "recent apostasy and divisions" the congregation has had to deal with (he means me, since I sent emails to the "friends" to tell them the sketchy things the elders were doing.) Wasn't that nice of him to mention me in the talk! My kids got irritated with his smack talk, but Jehovah got us through it. I think he used maybe three or four scriptures, two of them misapplied. Most of the talk was about worshipping the "Faithful and Discreet Slave" and how much they "have done for us".🤪
      I went because I love Jehovah and I knew He wanted me to go to at least one of the CO visit days, to show my support to the "friends" that I know this is the organization Jehovah is going to clean and that I haven't left of my own accord. (They know about all the details of the sketchy stuff the fake elders did because I informed them of every sketchy thing the elders did to my kids and me.) Part of why I went was to show love for the congregation. Very soon they are going to be in complete shock. I love those people, even though they are all mostly brainwashed at present. They will have a rude awakening soon enough because the GB and the Bethels will be gone when the UN attacks and the congregations are going to need to be comforted. 
      A nice brother said the closing prayers, so I said "Amen" to that one nice and clear. (The poor brothers on the platform were right in front me, there was no one sitting in the row in front of us.) After the meeting, my kids chatted for a little bit with friends and then we were going to leave. I said "hi" to a few people (that really irritates the COBE, that's not why I do it, I do it because Jehovah said to encourage the brothers and we can't if we don't talk to them...) 
      When we were leaving, CO#1 pulled my son aside to talk to him for a minute. The CO wanted me to go away, but I stayed right there, because I think it's rude to cause divisions in a family like what he was doing. The CO attempted to talk to my son about homeschooling right in front of me as if I didn't exist. I wasn't having any of it. I let him do his thing for a minute, and then I told him he was causing divisions, and if he didn't respect Jehovah's arrangement for family (like not talking to the mom who is part of the family) that he wasn't welcome to talk to my son. The COs not good association. Then we walked away.
      My daughter was in the library with her friend and her friends parents and two aunts (one is the wife of an elder.) As soon as I walked in - hush! Everybody stopped talking. I walked by them and told my daughter's friend I loved her and gave her a hug (I used to take her out in service together with my kids). I looked at the people in the room and said "I love you, even though I know you hate me, except for you...I know you love me" to one sister who I know is kind and real. Then we left and on the way out gave the other doorman who is like a grandfather a big hug and he said goodbye and kept waving as we drove off.
      What an evening! (Thank you for any positive thoughts directed my way! Jehovah is the Hearer of Prayer, and He does things with style!)
      "You well know that Jehovah your God is the true God, the faithful God, keeping his covenant and loyal love to a thousand generations of those who love him and keep his commandments.  But those who hate him he will repay to their face with destruction. He will not be slow to deal with those who hate him; he will repay them to their face." (Deuteronomy 7:9,10)

      · 1 reply
  • Forum Statistics

    • Total Topics
    • Total Posts
  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
    • Most Online

    Newest Member
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Service Confirmation Terms of Use Privacy Policy Guidelines We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.