1975 and the Jehovah's Witnesses

[TrueTomHarley]

11 minutes ago, Noble Berean said:

So, what did we learn from the 1975 failure?

We learned not to do it again. Have you noticed any other years since ballyhooed as the big one?

[Noble Berean]

7 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

We learned not to do it again. Have you noticed any other years since ballyhooed as the big one?

Step 1 is not touching the oven door. Step 2 is realizing that the oven shouldn't be touched because it's burning hot

While the organization doesn't assign end dates anymore, that doesn't solve the underlying issue...that the GB wants to eat it's cake and have it too.

[JW Insider]

6 minutes ago, Noble Berean said:

It's dishonest for the organization to suggest that 1975 enthusiasm was generated by some rank & file JWs.

Just because something is not true does not strictly mean it is dishonest. I have honestly seen perhaps dozens of people who knew all about the publications drumming up speculation about the 1970's but who were then very quick to blame themselves or decide that they weren't at all affected when they were. What I think I have seen is that blaming individual Witnesses instead of the publications for the speculation became a mental rite of passage for all those who lived through it but didn't exactly know what to say afterward. In 1976 we got the message that it was our own fault, and I think this came at the peak time to settle any confusion about what just happened. I remember thinking that this was easier if all of us just saw it as our own weakness because we don't have to worry about the reputation of Jehovah's organization, and we are all humble enough to take the blame. It seemed to me that whole congregations were breathing a sigh of relief that this was the solution. I think that most of us (I'm guessing 66%) were thoroughly convinced that it really was our own fault. Those who didn't fall for it were given a chance to judge themselves as slightly superior to those who did.

And the reason it worked is that it was partly true. While the WTS had requested that we speculate about 1975, and it drove the parameters of that speculation so that we would see a high probability of end-time events taking place that year, we were never told specifically that Armageddon would come that year. Yet this was exactly what people were thinking. That was improper, individual speculation. The closest the Watchtower had said was that the 1970's would see end time events. The events would begin, not years, but only months from 1975. This is really the equivalent of saying, before October 1977, (because that would be "years" not just "months"). But there was enough looseness to the language and the tie in with expectations for the 1970's so that we should not have been surprised if the end took until 1979. But it was almost surely going to happen prior to 1979.

In 1976 we really had been speculating about a specific year (1975) and we were never told to do that, per se. Yes, we were told to speculate, but there really were unwarranted conclusions being drawn from the speculation. It seems curious how even the internal speculation at the Society's headquarters was not going to wait until 1977 to see if it really would be only months, not years from 1975. They understood that when 1975 was only a few months behind us, that the whole speculation had to be put to bed. In fact, they put the brakes on the speculation beginning in the summer of 1974, as I recall.

So all the initial enthusiasm had been generated by the WTS publications, but only up through 1973, and even then the most important enthusiasm had been at assemblies between 1968 and 1971. I think that HQ knew that there was something wrong with the 1975 thing in late 1973 and early 1974. They probably felt that after the counsel beginning in the summer of 1974, any individuals who still pushed 1975 with the same enthusiasm were on their own.

[Evacuated]

21 minutes ago, Noble Berean said:

It's dishonest for the organization to suggest that 1975 enthusiasm was generated by some rank & file JWs

This reveals a basic characteristic of those who "observe" JWs from the sidelines. The presumption of a sort of heirarchy along the lines of typical human organisation.

Actually, all JW's are rank and file. Any other "heirarchical perception" exists only in the minds of those men who hold it I'm afraid, whoever they are.. So in reality, 1975 enthusiasm, (other than enthusiasm for just another "last days" year nearer the end than 1974), was generated by some rank & file JWs. And there were some other rank & file JWs who did not share that enthusiasm.

[TrueTomHarley]

I am going to go out on a limb slightly.

2022!!!

Be Ready

only 1457 shopping days left for someone to buy your home.

[Evacuated]

5 minutes ago, JW Insider said:

It seemed to me that whole congregations were breathing a sigh of relief

Amen to that, and probably in that, relief that Armageddon did not come in 1975 if they're honest!

[Evacuated]

8 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

2022!!!

Be Ready

only 1457 shopping days left for someone to buy your home.

Great!! I'm gonna max out my Sainsburys card for 30 months and then transfer the balance to Santander!!!

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/credit-cards/best-0-credit-cards#longestdeal

[Anna]

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

I am going to go out on a limb slightly.

2022!!!

Be Ready

only 1457 shopping days left for someone to buy your home.

But come on.......you have to give us at least some basic calculations for your deduction. Otherwise if you don't,  it doesn't count, and I'm going to ignore it. So there!

[Witness]

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

We learned not to do it again. Have you noticed any other years since ballyhooed as the big one?

How does it usually begin?   With calculations.   Before you know it, a date emerges.  Read between the lines in the December 15, 2003 Watchtower, pp. 14-19.  Of course, the understanding of “this generation” has changed since then; so, stay tuned.  Or not. I would rather you not. "Leave them alone! They are blind guides. And if the blind guide the blind, both will fall into a pit.”  Matt 15:14

They can’t help themselves, since their focus is on the earthly, contrary to all of Christ’s warnings.  They have concerned themselves with the “times and the seasons” since the beginning, all the while promising peace and security within “Jehovah’s organization”.

“But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you.  For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. ³ For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.” 1 Thess 5:1-3

 He replied, “When evening comes, you say, ‘It will be fair weather, for the sky is red,’  and in the morning, ‘Today it will be stormy, for the sky is red and overcast.’ You know how to interpret (Bible calculations) the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times.  A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah.” Jesus then left them and went away.  Matt 16:2-4

2 Thess 2:9,10; Rev 13:13,14

“But the person without the Spirit does not receive what comes from God's Spirit, because it is foolishness to him; he is not able to understand it since it is evaluated spiritually.”

“Now we have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who comes from God, so that we may understand what has been freely given to us by God.  We also speak these things, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual things to spiritual people.”

“For who knows a person's thoughts except his spirit within him? In the same way, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.”

1 Cor 2:14,12,13,11

Surely, it is clear that human wisdom, the spirit of the world, was used to calculate 1975 and all previous failed dates.  One date, 1914, requires human wisdom to keep the date alive; thus, the “overlapping generation” was invented.  When an anointed one is guided by God’s Holy Spirit, human wisdom does not come into play.  That is Satan’s field.  James 3:13-16; 2 Cor 11:4

“Isaiah’s prophecy is fulfilled in them, which says:

You will listen and listen,
but never understand;
you will look and look,
but never perceive.
 For this people’s heart has grown callous;
their ears are hard of hearing,
and they have shut their eyes;
otherwise they might see with their eyes,
and hear with their ears, and
understand with their hearts,
and turn back—
and I would heal them.  Matt 13:14,15

 

[Noble Berean]

1 hour ago, Gone Fishing said:

This reveals a basic characteristic of those who "observe" JWs from the sidelines. The presumption of a sort of heirarchy along the lines of typical human organisation.

Actually, all JW's are rank and file. Any other "heirarchical perception" exists only in the minds of those men who hold it I'm afraid, whoever they are.. So in reality, 1975 enthusiasm, (other than enthusiasm for just another "last days" year nearer the end than 1974), was generated by some rank & file JWs. And there were some other rank & file JWs who did not share that enthusiasm.

 

hi·er·ar·chy

noun

noun: hierarchy; plural noun: hierarchies

a system or organization in which people or groups are ranked one above the other according to status or authority.

Edit:

Quote

First, it is Scriptural for “the faithful and discreet slave” through its Governing Body to appoint men to positions of responsibility, and some men are appointed to exercise authority over other appointed men. (Matt. 24:45-47; 1 Pet. 5:1-3) Second, all of us, including appointed men, should honor those who have authority over us. What, then, are some practical ways in which we can honor those who hold positions of oversight in the worldwide Christian congregation? (w08 10/15 pp. 21-25)

 

[Anna]

1 hour ago, Gone Fishing said:

Actually, all JW's are rank and file.

Yes. We are supposedly all domestics, including the Slave/GB

And as a side point, if someone brings up the overlapping generation I'm going to waive my hand dismissively like Br. Herd and go "pfft..."

[JW Insider]

33 minutes ago, Noble Berean said:

Good point. "Rank and file" has bee a common expression within Bethel for the publishers outside the Bethel headquarters.

• Sometimes F.Franz used the term "rank and file" and sometimes just "the publishers" as in "the publishers don't always know what they need until they see it."
• Assembly talk in 2014 spoke of how the faithful slave is producing material and that "You, the rank and file take it from door to door." (He was a circuit overseer, so I remember wondering if he should have said "We, the rank and file . . .")
• A member of the Governing Body speaks of the "rank and file" witnesses in the 2011 video "Jehovah's Witnesses -- Faith in Acti0on."
• Also the Watchtower has used it a couple of times:

*** w86 9/1 p. 28 Must You Be in the Limelight? ***

• A similar situation exists in the Christian congregation. Some individuals are used quite prominently, but others play rather inconspicuous roles as rank-and-file publishers of the Kingdom message. Should these ones feel, however, that they are somehow less important because they are not in the limelight?

But it's true isn't it, that each of these "prominent ones" should also be considering themselves to to be the "rank and file" at least on weekends.