Are Wrongly Disfellowshipped People Automatically Reinstated?

[Grey Reformer]

10 minutes ago, Witness said:

Where to start.  

Who are the anointed ones, and why must they obey those not anointed - the elder body?  

You mentioned the Watchtower is not spirit directed. I’m not after your personal opinion, show me the proof. So, start from there. I will be no more than happy to review your submission.

[Witness]

2 hours ago, Grey Reformer said:

You mentioned the Watchtower is not spirit directed. I’m not after your personal opinion, show me the proof. So, start from there. I will be no more than happy to review your submission.

I will let the Watchtower's hypocritical teachings answer it for you.

 

[Grey Reformer]

34 minutes ago, Witness said:

I will let the Watchtower's hypocritical teachings answer it for you. 

Since you were absolute about your comment, I was hoping to see some concrete evidence on your claim. It turns out to be bluster from the opposition. Let me know when your guardian angel decides to let you in on God’s plans, directly.

Meanwhile, when submitting proof. It would be well advised to understand the context.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

The problem is, that Grey Reformer is too lacking in general knowledge of what has been going on around him (or her) to reform anything.

Before you can fix a problem ... you have to know there IS a problem.

[Witness]

51 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

The problem is, that Grey Reformer is too lacking in general knowledge of what has been going on around him (or her) to reform anything.

Before you can fix a problem ... you have to know there IS a problem.

Yes, sadly this is the case.  John 12:40

[Grey Reformer]

3 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

The problem is, that Grey Reformer is too lacking in general knowledge of what has been going on around him (or her) to reform anything.

How about that. You took the words right out of my mouth. Before anyone can honestly criticize someone’s doctrine, they need to understand the principles of scripture. Perhaps, “James” will eventually learn scripture the correct way, by not making erroneous claims that can be corrected by true Bible knowledge.

If you did, you would understand the context of Matthew 5:3-12 with the emphasis on verses 10-11. Something Jehovah Witnesses have endured and will continue to endure from hostile sources.

So, let’s bring back the posted question without further deviation from someone’s personal opinion on other matters.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

18 minutes ago, Grey Reformer said:

So, let’s bring back the posted question without further deviation from someone’s personal opinion on other matters.

O.K. ... let's do exactly THAT!Are Wrongly Disfellowshipped People Automatically Reinstated?

Answer:

The way that disfellowshipping is handled today has only one purpose ... to maintain the powers structure of the Governing Body.

If a person was disfellowshipped for being right ... he is NOT automatically reinstated ... the fact that he was right makes his crime ESPECIALLY grievous.

This is reality ... where the "rubber meets the road".

 

[Grey Reformer]

2 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

The way that disfellowshipping is handled today has only one purpose ... to maintain the powers structure of the Governing Body.

If a person was disfellowshipped for being right ... he is NOT automatically reinstated ... the fact that he was right makes his crime ESPECIALLY grievous.

From an outsider standpoint of view, it would seem difficult to comprehend why God is patient. To a JW, it is as simple as understanding the structure in scripture. Therefore, the posted question is too conflicting to its meaning.

*** ws18 August p. 27 Patience—Endurance With a Purpose ***

We all want the new world to come as soon as possible. But we learn to be more patient when we think about how patient Jehovah has been with us. The Bible assures us: “Jehovah is not slow concerning his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire anyone to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.” (2 Peter 3:9) So when we think about Jehovah’s patience with us, we will also be more patient with others. (Romans 2:4) What are some situations where we need to be patient?

 

Now, if you have a better reference from any other God other than the true God of Israel, I will be happy to review your evidence. Since the purpose of disfellowshipping is to keep the congregation clean. Therefore as the above subscribes, showing repentance is the key. Can someone simply say, I’m sorry, and then everything is forgiven? Can you do that in a court of law? Can someone simply tell the Judge, I’m sorry I hurt that person because I needed drugs so badly, and the Judge releases that person out of the goodness of his heart. How far are you willing to exasperate the question?

 

*** w16 November p. 12 Organized in Harmony With God’s Own Book ***

MAINTAIN CLEANNESS, PEACE, AND UNITY

¹⁴ We can contribute to the spiritual cleanness of the congregation by following the direction found in God’s Word. Consider the situation in ancient Corinth. Paul had poured himself out preaching in that city, and he loved his fellow “holy ones” there. (1 Cor. 1:1, 2) But how troubling it must have been for him to have to address the problem of sexual immorality that was being tolerated in that congregation! Paul directed the elders to hand the immoral man over to Satan—in other words, to disfellowship him. To preserve the congregation’s purity, the elders needed to clear out the “leaven.” (1 Cor. 5:1, 5-7, 12) When we support the elders’ decision to disfellowship an unrepentant wrongdoer, we help to maintain the cleanness of the congregation and perhaps move the person to repent and seek Jehovah’s forgiveness

In this world, everyone who is guilty is innocent. That's what they want people to think. Are there innocent people? maybe in a real court of law. Does that mean a judicial committee holds the same standards as an outside court of law? NO! the Elders are there to see if unchristian conduct deserves having a person disfellowshipped. If the conduct goes beyond a judicial committee's capability? the affected party is duly notified to seek legal compensation through due process.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

I am sorry, Grey Reformer, but your text is too small for my 71 year old eyes to read, and I don't need anyone to "review" for your approval what is general and common knowledge. 

When I find my reading glasses, I will try again to go through your material ... but one thing I have learned over the years ... the probability of someone's words being valid and topically important DECREASES with the quantity of words used.

I agree with the need for disfellowshipping ... my objection is to the cruelty in HOW it is practiced, and that there is NEVER, EVER any "extenuating circumstances" that would legitimately call for mercy.

[Witness]

On 8/28/2018 at 3:26 PM, Grey Reformer said:

However, the Watchtower is run by God’s Holy Spirit, not individual men as many former witnesses now contend, regardless of how that view is made by obscured opinions.

Watchtower has made references that the Wild Beast of Revelation 13, is an organization.

Dan 7:23 states it is “diverse”, different, altered, changed, transformed.  It is not at all like the three previous beasts that God’s people suffered under.  Both its tactics and appearance are very different from the previous four beasts.

 It works on deceit.  Rev 19:20

Revelation 13:7 says, It was given power to wage war (spiritual war according to the Greek scriptures 2 Cor 10:3,4) against God’s holy people/saints and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.

The beast has the authority to symbolically (because Revelation a book of signs, Rev 1:1) “kill” those who refuse to accept its authority. 

It has an “image” of being “spirit-directed”, given to it from a “false prophet”/second beast who appears to be “in Christ”.  Rev 13:11

“The second beast was given power to give breath (spirit; see John 20:22) to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.”  Rev 13:15

Has any organization in the world “conquered” the anointed ones? Certainly not the U.N.  Is there any organization in the world that has the power to authorize the spiritual “death” of people from every tribe, language and nation when they refuse to acknowledge it as an image given by “spirit”?

There is only one diverse organization that has significantly conquered the saints and their companions; pushing the anointed into the far corners of the organization and out of sight from all others.  The Watchtower organization.

The elder body has been appointed on the basis of a few scriptures that they say, provides these men with the “breath” of Holy Spirit.  In reality,  they are the speaking “image” of Rev 13:15.   They have been given the authority over the saints/anointed ones and people from every “tribe, language and nation”, to disfellowship (consider them spiritually dead) any who refuse to revere and serve, the Watchtower organization.

Is “Jehovah’s spirit-directed organization” blessed by God?  

No.  It is the formidable foe against the remaining ones of the woman’s seed before the Kingdom arrives.  Rev 12:1-4; 2 Thess 2:9-12

“They will put you out of (expel you from) the synagogues (“congregations”); but an hour is coming when whoever kills you will think and claim that he has offered service to God.”  John 16:2

When individuals are disfellowshipped, their treatment received from other members of the organization is as if they are dead.  Many disfellowshipped ones have not sinned, but have recognized that Christ is their Head, and not men.  Matt 5:11; Mark 8:35 They refuse to acknowledge an organization based on deceit. 

 

 

 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

21 hours ago, Grey Reformer said:

please provide this overwhelming evidence you seem to have, that the Watchtower is not spirit directed

Please, first of all, for my understanding of your position on issue, give me definition what in fact means "to be spirit directed"???

1) How single person is spirit directed?

2) How  group of people is spirit directed?

3) How (in this case Watchtower inc.) Company is spirit directed?

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

Good questions Srecko Sostar!

Since the GB, through the February 2017 Watchtower has actually ADMITTED what was so very painfully obvious, with terrible and sustained real world consequences for those that trusted them TO HAVE COMMON SENSE, that they are NOT inspired of God, and are NOT infallible ... what is "spirit directed" ??

It seems to me that anyone with a real, developed conscience that parallels Scripture ... is in fact "spirit directed".

... ANYONE AT ALL !

I am going to make some popcorn ..... the replies should be interesting !