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Jack Ryan

Why are women part of the 144,000?

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8 hours ago, Jack Ryan said:

Not being sexist.

If the Governing Body want to interpret it so literally, it should only be virgin men according to revelation

Lol my wife and I had the same question, if women aren't currently allowed to do much at all within earthly organisation apart from cleaning, witnessing and other non important jobs what jobs will they be allowed to do in the heavenly realm perhaps they will be genderless once they become spiritual entities my best guess... But then again the angels in Noah's day decided to become man instead of woman so there must be an inclination or a gender identification within spiritual entities. Too deep this subject 😳...

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It is fitting that our future government will represent all races and both genders.  Resurrected ones will be represented by these king/priests who were also imperfect in the past.

Women's makeup is different in a biological, emotional and physical way to men - so it is good that someone will understand how it feels to be a woman even if they are now in heaven and no longer have gender. 

All those who receive heavenly life is judged by jehovah to receive this mercy. Most have proven faithful under very different circumstances - such as being a woman or living in a different era or country. 

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7 hours ago, Arauna said:

so it is good that someone will understand how it feels to be a woman even if they are now in heaven and no longer have gender. 

...... nothing against your comment, just this remind me on "explanation" from past publication - Women gender of some of those in 144000 class, while were been on Earth, will help non-gender Kings and Priests to "help" people on Earth. 

So, it seems how: fact that they have "spiritual bodies" after resurrection, and fact that they are "perfect spiritual beings"  and in Heaven, is not enough for them to understand people's need. There is a necessity that some of 144000 class individuals have had women's hormones in past life. :)))

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After Jesus was resurrected, he still appeared on earth as a man. John 21:14   In God’s Kingdom the priests/kings who will “rule ON the earth”, (Rev 5:9,10) and serve God in heaven, could still appear as either female or male.  Rev 22:1-5  (John 1:51; Heb 1:6,7)  They are to imitate Christ, their Head and High Priest/”Husband”, becoming one with  him.1 Cor 12:27; Rom 12:5; Gal 3:29   Whether male or female, their kingdom rule will be based on the love, peace and wisdom that they have come to know through Jesus Christ.  Their “offspring” to come, are the rest of Abraham’s seed, that they help, nurture, and teach God’s decrees in the Kingdom, by bringing the dwelling of God to earth.  Mal 2:7; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22;Rev 21:2,3; Gen 26:4;28:14

Jesus had such compassion for people when on the earth, and God will choose and teach those whom he deems faithful out of the called ones, as Christ’s Bride; who will also display the same compassion as Christ, whether they are male or female.    1 Cor 2:16; Rom 15:5; Rev 17:14

Interestingly, the October 2019 study magazine made the confident  statement that “During the great tribulation, a change will take place regarding the brothers who take the lead on earth. At some point, all anointed ones who are still on earth will be gathered to heaven to share in the war of Armageddon. (Matt. 24:31; Rev. 2:26, 27) This means that the Governing Body will no longer be with us on earth.  WT 10/2019 

Wow.  Such insight!  They KNOW who will rule with Christ!  David Splane spent some time warning the anointed about the possibility of being found"foolish" at Jesus return, but apparently that fear is no longer.  These insightful men have been given new light concerning the last days.  (Matt 25)   How they hurry and plan for Armageddon to arrive.

How horrible it will be for those
    who string people along with lies and empty promises,
    whose lives are sinful.
19         They say,
            “Let God hurry and quickly do his work
                so that we may see what he has in mind.
            Let the plan of the Holy One of Israel happen quickly
                so that we may understand what he is doing.”

20 How horrible it will be for those
    who call evil good and good evil,
    who turn darkness into light and light into darkness,
    who turn what is bitter into something sweet
        and what is sweet into something bitter.

21 How horrible it will be for those
    who think they are wise
        and consider themselves to be clever.

22 How horrible it will be for those
    who are heroes at drinking wine,
    who are champions at mixing drinks,
23     who declare the guilty innocent for a bribe,
    who take away the rights of righteous people.  Isa 5:18-23


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On 9/6/2019 at 4:53 PM, Matthew9969 said:

So women will become jewish male virgins...isn't that a pagan belief Arauna?

Did not understand your question...... I did not speak of virgins.......  I have read the Quran, hadith and sirah and speak some Arabic. I also lived in Sweden and know the similarity between nordic Valhallah and pagan teachings of Islam.

I see no relevance in my answer to your jumping to conclusions my dear - so explain yourself please so I can correct any misunderstandings.

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On 9/6/2019 at 7:51 PM, Srecko Sostar said:


I am almost 67 years old....... but I still remember many of my reactions which could have been related to hormones - especially my quick emotional reactions.  I think older men also remember many of their  reactions and now look back at this time with more wisdom and maturity. 

Apart from judging humans by applying Jehovahs' righteous principles I do think that memories of our own imperfections and situations (for example: which situations were very difficult to show subjection to a husband ) help us even now (here on earth) to not judge others too harshly......


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On 9/2/2019 at 1:58 PM, Jack Ryan said:

Not being sexist.

If the Governing Body want to interpret it so literally, it should only be virgin men according to revelation

Maybe (in secret) they are interpreting it literally.  It was just brought to my attention; when has anyone seen one of the “144,000” portrayed as female in WT pictures?

Samuel Herd made mention once, that women’s brains are 10 percent smaller than men.  Obviously, he can’t envision women ruling as “kings” and priests in the Kingdom.  Gal 3:28; Rev 5:9,10   



And, in this picture, these guys are all clones of each other.


Image result for Watchtower picture Armageddon


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A pretty old video quoted above - from a forgotten era. 

My parents were born in 1920s. Most women did not work until after WW2 because women did the work of men during the war. Even after the war the consensus was that women were made to be subject to men and had to stay at home with children.  My mother was fortunate   She was a nursing sister and helped my father in his practise. Freedom of women and children came with contraception and flower power of the sixties.

So to me it is natural , due to the times, that brothers would  interpret scriptures in the same way as society. Reflect the conservative values if society.

I attended a wedding talk last week and it was really good! The brother compared the wife as  "helper" with God being our "helper " - same word used. 

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      Chosen Ones
      Holy Nation
      Israel of God
      Kingdom Class
      Members of the Household of God
      Little Flock
      New Creation
      New Nation
      Royal House
      Royal Priesthood
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      Spiritual Sons
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      We can not nullify scripture. Each and every thing Revelation tells us about the Great Crowd,  is how the chosen priests  are described in other scriptures.  We must accept the Bible's own interpretation of who the Great Crowd is.
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      During the "Thousand Years", Satan is restrained. Those who rule with Christ during that time, are not overcome by Satan's Beasts and their slave mark (Rev.20:4). After Satan's release, he empowers the false prophet and it's Beast, with powerful deception (Rev.16:13-16; 13:4,11; 20:7-8; 17:14; 20:9; 11:3,5; Jer.5:14; 23:29; Matt.10:20) (2Thess.2:9,11,8; Rev.2:16).
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      Therefore, the experience of the Great Crowd, differs from the previous faithful priests.
      The previous 144000 had never accepted the slave mark of the Beasts (Rev.20:4) who are unleashed during the Great Tribulation (Rev.13:1,11). The remnant (remaining ones of the seed -Rev.12:17,15) are overcome (Rev.13:7), and must be rescued (Jer.31:11; Isa.48:20; 51:11). These are required to repent of their soiled identity, and be given white robes (Zech.3:3-4,8; Rev.3:18; Isa.1:18; Eze.18:27; Rev.19:8; 7:9,14).
      Not all, repent (Rev.2:21-22; 9:20-21; 16:9-11) (1Kings8:46-50; Mal.3:6).

      The previous group of 144000 were in the Lamb's book of life during Christ's "Thousand Year" reign ("first resurrection"). The "second death"--
          (being overcome by death again, after having received redemption from Adamic sin and "first" death
          -Rom.5:12; John6:63; 5:24; 1Cor.15:45; 1Pet.1:23)
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      When the Chosen who are living after the Thousand Years, are overcome by the released Satan and the resources of his abyss; they are overcome once again by death, having lost their slave mark of God (Deut.11:18), (being slave-marked by the laws of the Beast -Rev.13:16)
      (Rev.13:7; 9:4-6,10; 7:3)

      Yet there will be those who repent, are saved, and are added to those who receive life (Rev.3:3,19; 20:6,5) "after the thousand years have ended".

      This is why the "144000" and the "Great Crowd" are depicted by scripture, as two different groups.
      Yet in the end, the survivors of the Great Tribulation, battle for Truth (Rev.12:10-11; Luke 12:8; Rev.6:9-11; Mark 8:35; Rev.11:8), alongside Christ at Armageddon (Rev.17:14; 19:14,8), and are united with the previous "144000", in the Lamb's scroll of life (Zech.3:7-10; Rev.3:5).
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      8 This kingdom, the means by which eternal life is possible for us, is a heavenly government. Jesus himself is the chief Ruler, and he is to have 144,000 corulers who have been chosen from mankind and called by God to heavenly life. (Rom. 8:16, 17; Luke 22:29; Rev. 5:9, 10; 14:1) The paramount importance of this kingdom is seen in the emphasis that God put on it in the Bible. It was the chief subject of Jesus’ preaching. (Matt. 4:23) Also, it is to the spirit-anointed Christians who will rule in that kingdom that most of the Christian Greek Scriptures is directed, including the promises of everlasting life.
      *** w06 6/1 p. 24 par. 12 Jehovah Tells “From the Beginning the Finale” ***
      12 The foreordination of the 144,000 does not mean that certain individuals were predestined to serve God faithfully in this way. Indeed, the admonition in the Christian Greek Scriptures was written primarily to guide and strengthen anointed ones to maintain integrity and keep themselves worthy of their heavenly calling. (Philippians 2:12; 2 Thessalonians 1:5, 11; 2 Peter 1:10, 11) Jehovah knows in advance that 144,000 individuals will qualify to serve his purpose. Who they prove to be depends on how those invited individually choose to live their life, a decision that each one of them must make personally.—Matthew 24:13.
    • By HollyW
      I understand your answer perfectly, John, and it confirms what I posted, that according to the WTS there were less than 144,000 Christians in nearly 1900 years.  As the reader J.A. from the Dominican Republic pointed out when he wrote to the Society about it, being one of the 144,000 was the only position open to Christians during all that time.
      [wt 1/15/1952 QFR] Questions From Readers

      ● According to the article “Hated for His Name” in the September 1, 1951, Watchtower, hundreds of thousands of Christians died in the “ten persecutions” starting in Nero’s time, 144,000 dying in Egypt alone during one of the persecutions. How can this be harmonized with the Scriptural limitation of 144,000 placed on the number being in Christ’s body, and which position was the only one open to Christians during those centuries?—J.A., Dominican Republic.
      And the Society's reply shows that the vast majority of those they mentioned in their article who were martyred for their faith as Christians were not real Christians at all, but only "professed Christians".  It's kind of ironic that they would be thought to be examples for JWs today who face similar persecutions.
    • By The Librarian
      See also:

      Jehovah's Witnesses believe that exactly 144,000 faithful Christian men and women from Pentecost of 33 CE until the present day will be resurrected to heaven as immortal spirit beings to spend eternity with God and Christ. They believe that these people are "anointed" by God to become part of the spiritual "Israel of God". They believe the 144,000 (which they consider to be synonymous with the "little flock" of Luke 12:32) will serve with Christ as king-priests for a thousand years, while all other people accepted by God (the "other sheep" of John 10:16, composed of "the great crowd" of Revelation 7:9,14 and the resurrected "righteous and the unrighteous" ones of Acts 24:15), will be given an opportunity to live forever in a restored paradise on earth. According to the Witnesses, the first of the 144,000 were resurrected in 1918 (April) and others who die thereafter are immediately resurrected to heaven.

      Individual Witnesses indicate their claim of being "anointed" by partaking of the bread and wine at the annual Memorial of Christ's death. In 2014, 14,121 Witnesses worldwide claimed to be of the anointed "remnant" of the 144,000.The members of the Governing Body who exercise teaching authority over Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide claim to be among the anointed 144,000, and also consider themselves as a group to be the faithful and discreet slave of Matthew 24:45 and Luke 12:42.

      Jesus Christ is their "Mediator"

      Did the first million or so professed "Anointed Christians" really just end up in Gehenna? 

      See also:
      The Thrones of the 144,000 - 2014 Regional Convention Part
    • By Kurt
      Relations between different numbers and their symbolic meaning regarding to the number 144000 - PDF
    • By Jesus.defender
      How do you prove from the Bible that 1935 was the year for the selection to heaven stopped due to being filled? What is the difference between a Catholic appealing to "what the organization tells him" about December 25 being the date of Jesus' birthday and a Jw' appealing to "what the organization tells him" about the date 1935? Is it not hypocritical when you chide the "poor deluded Catholic" that his faith cannot find a Bible passage to support it, when the same goes for you and 1935?
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