New Light

[Cheepcheep]

Thank you Witness, I have tracked the changes. I'll just say, I'm not here to be right or to win. There are some interesting zig zags  Our material has reported that these zig zags are like a yacht moving toward the goal, It does not take a direct line, but must tack or zig zag back n forth at the angle of the direction of the wind or spirit. This is very well and reasonable if true. However, a yacht in a race, should never turn 180 degrees and move back toward where they came, unless it's a temporary 360 degree penalty turn for infringing upon the competing yacht. So for a short time, the yacht might be facing 180 degrees. That might help to explain why at times we've made a complete 180 degree change in understanding. Too, the implication that we are racing another yacht to the goal may concern some. But to respond to your comments on what some writers may call "flip-flopping" in on doctrines, I have only been a JW for 20 years but have read most of the Watchtowers from 1950 onward, a few from before that too. All in an effort to try and see both perspectives more clearly. The "this generation" one is of current interest as the old saying that "millions now  living will never die" uttered by Rutherford I believe, is proving difficult to continue supporting. JWs are about 8.5 million, the world average population of elderly people is about 8 percent. Applying that to our organization and we arrive at a little over 100,000 elderly over 60, a much smaller number of which would be in their triple digit age. So another saying, "those that saw the events of 1914 will not pass away until all these things [the Jesus mentioned] occur, too, is looking to be improbable, as these ones would need to be older than 104 years old to have been alive at 1914, to see the events of that time. Very few people in this world reach such an age. And in all likelihood, that group has already passed from the scene of this world. So, either the Tribulation has already begun, and those last few died off since it's beginning and before its end as we currently believe will happen. Or they are awaiting the first resurrection, which we currently believe they have received already [all those anointed who die from around 1918, 19 would not have to wait, but receive their heavenly reward instantaneously] , yet cannot have if the Tribulation had not yet begun within the last few decades, in order for those who saw 1914 to be alive at its beginning and not so before its end. However, a recent adjustment tells us that that group could have already died off, and it ls the second overlapping group that will be alive for the Tribulation and not so by its end. Consider too, that up until the early '90s we thought we were in the Great Tribulation since 1914  so technically that first group may have actually died during it, fulfilling the requirement of the previous statement. But ironically, among that group some did not believe that all anointed would receive their heavenly reward before Armageddon. Some, thought they might go through and help set up the Kingdom on the other side and then receive their reward. However, it was thought that the Marriage of the Lamb and the Bride had to take place before Armageddon, in heaven. So the recent adjustment has taken this into consideration. However, as we have stated in the Revelation Climax book, the Great Crowd do not need to be in Heaven for them to stand before God's throne. If then, some anointed are on earth at the Great Tribulation, do they necessarily need to be in heaven for the marriage? In reading of the bonds between anointed and Christ, they are already united when they receive and accept the anointing. They do not need to be in the same physical location to satisfy this union. Anyway I rambling  Over to you...

[Witness]

13 hours ago, Cheepcheep said:

Thank you Witness, I have tracked the changes.

Dear Cheepcheep, thank you for your polite response. Although you are trying to look at the organization’s “tacking” objectively, you have not mentioned the light of Christ in your comment.  Each attempt by the Watchtower to “tack” and teach it as truth, which we know they do, corrupts the Word of God.  I am sorry, but there really is no excuse that can be made by their “tacking” example.  You covered a lot of subjects in your paragraph, in which I personally feel are errors in their teaching; perhaps more suitable for another topic.  Appreciatively, Librarian always keeps me in check.

“Therefore, since we have this ministry because we were shown mercy, we do not give up. ^2 Instead, we have renounced secret and shameful things, not acting deceitfully or distorting the word of God, but commending ourselves before God to everyone’s conscience by an open display of the truth. ^3 But if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. ^4 In their case, the god of this age has blinded the minds of the unbelievers to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. ^5 For we are not proclaiming ourselves (as the Watchtower does) but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’s sake. ^6 For God who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of God’s glory in the face of Jesus Christ.  2 Cor 4:1-6

I hope you can see that ChristÂ’s light in the heart of a righteous one, is the knowledge of God; and is accurate knowledge to feed sheep appropriately and correctly.

You said, “It does not take a direct line, but must tack or zig zag back n forth at the angle of the direction of the wind or spirit. This is very well and reasonable if true”

I suppose Wt. uses these words of Christ:  “The wind blows where it pleases, and you hear its sound, but you don’t know where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”  (John 3:8)…this doesn’t mean the Spirit takes a faithful anointed one down any wrong path (which failed doctrines – are), as if to teach them a lesson.    It is the Spirit – “breath” -  of God/Christ working in an individual, leading them in knowledge, and as God wills.  Examples of this spirit wind:

“He said to me, "Prophesy to the breath, prophesy, son of man. Say to it: This is what the Lord GOD says: Breath, come from the four winds and breathe into these slain so that they may live! " Ezek 37:9

“Suddenly a sound like that of a violent rushing wind came from heaven, and it filled the whole house where they were staying. Then they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in different tongues, as the Spirit enabled them”  Acts 2:2,4

And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.”  John 20:22

God’s Spirit has not filled Watchtower’s sails and led them in a zig zag pattern through the years.  His ways are perfect.  The tacking theory puts the blame on God for men’s false predictions.  There are ample Bible references telling us to keep on the straight path, the only path, which should warn us NOT to fall for Watchtower’s tacking analogy.  Ps 27:11; 2 Pet 2:15; Jer 31:9; Prov 4:26; Isa 26:7; Prov 15:21; Luke 3:5; Heb 12:13; John 1:23; Prov 11:5; Ps 119:128; 107:7

When I posted my above comment elsewhere, this was the response from two (I believe both were) ex-Witnesses.

“The problem with the JWs use of Prov.4:18, ‘light getting brighter’, is, it is a misuse. Plucked and distorted from it’s true context. They pluck it from scripture and place it in an illegitimate relationship to excuse previous ‘misunderstandings’ of Bible prophecy, passages. They force fit it in use to self-pardon wrong and false prophetic summations and acclamations. By their application as such, they narrow this passage down to nothing more than a generic excuse scripture, missing its true meaning.—..........—Christ said ‘I am the light of the world’ ‘I am the lamp’. In Leviticus Ch.24 the people themselves were to bring flour and oil for the use in the tabernacle. It personifies a savior, Christ. Christ said ‘I am the bread and light’. Our light gets brighter in our continuing relationship with Christ and our Father. The whole context in Prov. chapter 4 is about relationship and the paths of righteousness vs. the path of wickedness.—..........—JWs have relegated it to something far less, missing it’s deeper meaning and structure. They have pawned it off as nothing more than an excuse passage.”

"Flour and oil". I was just thinking about that yesterday, when considering the widow who fed Elijah, with, flour and oil. Jesus told us in John ch.4, that the worship that results in life, is done with spirit and truth. The "bread from heaven" is Jesus Christ, the "way, truth, and life". I see the flour, as a symbol for truth.
The Bible uses golden oil, to symbolize the spirit. Kings and priests were anointed with the holy anointing oil, and since Christ, there is an anointing with spirit. That spirit combines with the truths of God's word, resulting in life. From the spirit and truth given to us, we are expected to prepare an offering to God... the "fruit of our lips" that confesses what we have received. Those who do this, are given more... the real meaning of light, getting brighter.

Yes maÂ’am, and our very lives are confessions of fruitage in that path of righteousness. The light in our relationship grows brighter and stronger, the love deepens.

Unless we step away from Watchtower and its “new light” we can’t see the absurdity of the list of “new light” dates; which are only part of changed, as well as faulty doctrines (“faithful and discreet slave”, who are the “great crowd”, the role of the “royal priesthood”, the “good news”, etc. – Yes! )

I do hope you see this.

[Witness]

20 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Thank you very much

It is very interesting that outsiders see the date list for what is – dead weight like bobbles on a necklace slithering around the walls of the Watchtower.  The GB said, “Of course, Jesus did not tell us that his faithful slave would produce perfect spiritual food.”  Wt 17 February pp. 23-28   I am realizing now the twisted truth of this statement.  If by “us” they mean themselves, it is a true statement.  But for those who believe in him, who remain in him, who desire to serve the true God and Christ – he promised it. 

^ “^ If a son asks for bread from any father among you, will he give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent instead of a fish? ^12 Or if he asks for an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?^ If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!”

“So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. ^10 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.”^{    Â}  Luke 11:11-13,9,10

So, what’s with the GB and their necessity to fabricate “new light”?  Have they asked THE FATHER for spiritual “good gifts”?  Have they asked CHRIST?  Or, do they follow another spirit – the “god of this age” who has offered them everything in this world, except for the knowledge from the living Christ?  Luke 4:7; Matt 6:20,21

Jesus sent his new recruits, his soon-to-be apostles with directions and examples on how to feed his sheep.  Jesus fed thousands with bread and fish, projecting those experiences spiritually.  When the GB and all past Wt. leaders, who claim to represent Christ, uttered just one false doctrine or date as food from Christ – they lied. Deut 18:20-22 Bread and fish sustained the body of those hungry  ones.  When they followed Jesus for more, he said,

 “Truly I tell you, you are looking for me, not because you saw the signs, but because you ate the loaves and were filled. ^27 Don’t work for the food that perishes – check out the list of dates, JWs!

but for the food that lasts for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set his seal of approval on him.”

The apostles asked -  and all anointed ones should ask,

^28 “What can we do to perform the works of God?” they asked.  (Would Wt’s “new light” fall under the works of God?)

^29 Jesus replied, “This is the work of God—that you believe in the one he has sent.”  John 6:26-29 

The GB proclaim themselves, and JWs proclaim primarily the GB and the organization  (they are taught this)– HOW can they truly, deeply believe in the light of Christ?

“I have come in my Father’s name, and yet you don’t accept me. If someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him.” John 5:43

Even though they speak the name, Jesus.  Matt 7:21-23

 

 

[Cheepcheep]

Thanks for your comments Witness. I have no qualms with discussing the light of Christ. He who said 'I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. He did not send himself did he  Nor is the one sent ever the superior.  As Paul remarked, stars differ in glory from each other, the light of the moon is not as brilliant as the light from the sun. Indeed, the moon only reflects the sun's light. So for us, Jesus' light as brilliant as it is is to the glory of God the Father, who sent him. 

In fact both, a person needs to accept not just Jesus and his Father but also the spirit too, recognising their roles and functions. well, that's how I was taught and still believe. 

Mat 7:21-23 mentions 'doing the will of the Father' so if we ignore the Father's will, how would Jesus respond?

[Srecko Sostar]

@Witness @Witness very deep thoughts, like it very much. Be blessed dear Witness :))

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

 

[Cheepcheep]

Hi sis, welcome to the fold!  In the last 5 years we've had more "big" adjustments than in the previous 10 years of "smaller" adjustments in our understanding. These are the "tackings" the poster was referring to. Each adjustment is like a small turn, the big ones are bigger turns or changes in direction. Like the Chariot of Ezekiel it can suddenly move at right angles at the speed of lightning, without turning or slowing down as it moves in the new direction. These too, are like strategic "tacks". Our appointed Commander and Chief is Jesus, Head of the Congregation. But it is Jehovah described on the throne in Ezekiel. Later in Revelation chapter 4, we get a glimpse of same throne, perhaps at a different more peaceful time since the one sitting on the throne is no longer surrounded by a rainbow with energetic flames flowing forth, but a peaceful emerald rainbow. It is our nature as a people to adjust or "tack" but some do no like it. If you compare the churches who prefer to stay the same, with no changes, it's good to ask those ones, what is better? There are advantages and disadvantages to both ways of thinking, so long as we all recognise that no one knows everything  except God.

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

The problem with the "tacking", is the front of one shoe is nailed to the floor, and any "progress" is made in either a clockwise or counter-clockwise circle.

Creating an artificial sense of urgency WILL motivate you ... but so will setting your hair on fire.

It is quite proper to follow "Jehovah's Chariot", wherever it goes ... but when following a clown car .... make sure you check the route, the weather, and the gas.

.... and don't follow TOO closely.

[Witness]

4 hours ago, Nana Fofana said:

And you ACTUALLY, TRULY believe that this problem applies to Jehovah's Witnesses, and not merely applies in some small way-   (in contrast to-  say-    "This in no way, shape, or form applies to Jehovah's Witnesses, when compared with the enormity of the degree of application to every other Jesus-touting group of today, that I know of!!?!"  -to quote, frankly, my own  view )

-but you ACTUALLY, TRULY, somehow believe this applies primarily, or even exclusively to Jehovah's Witnesses?

"For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will  be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?"  1 Pet 4:17

Your leaders said,

“Come to Jehovah’s organization for salvation”  Wt. 1981/11/15 p. 212

The apostle Peter said,

“Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”  Acts 4:12

Are there two paths to salvation?  

“Although Jesus was the Son of God, he learned to be obedient through his sufferings. After he had finished his work, he became the SOURCE OF ETERNAL SALVATION for everyone who obeys him." Heb 5:8

Go back to 1953  -

“Ask yourself now, Did Christ Jesus, who set our example and told us to follow his example to gain life, join any church organization in his day?  No.  God does not require us to do that; but he requires us to worship him…We have the Bible to show us the right way.  Certainly it is not necessary for a person to become a member of a church to gain everlasting life.”  Wt. 1953/3/1 p. 143

Now…consider what is said in ‘Make Sure of All Things”, pg 323

“Righteous flee to God’s Mountain-like Organization”

Are you feeling a bit burdened down with the “flip-flopping”?  You should be burdened down by the hypocrisy.

Jesus said, Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. ^29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. ^ For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.” Matt 11:28-30

But do JWs listen to him?  

One more from the Watchtower.

“To survive, we must keep our faith strong and loyally worship Jehovah with his organization.”   Wt 14/5/15  pp. 21-26

There are two powers at work here, Nana; the influence of men filling your mind with contradictions, and the straight-forward Spirit of God through Christ.

“What gives life is God's Spirit; human power is of no use at all. The words I have spoken to you bring God's life-giving Spirit. ^64 Yet some of you do not believe.” (Jesus knew from the very beginning who were the ones that would not believe and which one would betray him.)” John 6:63-64

Shouldn’t you question your teachers about their contradictory words?  What are they hiding from you, if not the true Christ and HIS words?

“My friends, not many of you should become teachers. As you know, we teachers will be judged with greater strictness than others”.  James 3:1

“Are there any of you who are wise and understanding? You are to prove it by your good life, by your good deeds performed with humility and wisdom. ^14 But if in your heart you are jealous, bitter, and selfish, don't sin against the truth by boasting of your wisdom. ^15 Such wisdom does not come down from heaven; it belongs to the world, it is unspiritual and demonic.” James 1:13-15 

Can an organization boast salvation, when God has already brought it to us through Christ?  Well, no, as the quote from 1953 verifies.    Can an organization call itself “the truth” when Christ proclaimed HE is the truth and the Way to life, the Way to God?  John 14:6 

“But the wisdom from above is pure first of all; it is also peaceful, gentle, and friendly; it is full of compassion and produces a harvest of good deeds; it is free from prejudice and hypocrisy.”

What good deeds on the part of the Wt. leaders, do you find in their announcement of prophesy and doctrine that was later dropped?     Amos 8:11

“On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. ^38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” John 7:37,38

"But whoever drinks from the water that I will give him will never get thirsty again. In fact, the water I will give him will become a well of water springing up in him for eternal life." John 4:14

Water represents teachings in the Bible.   Just the list of dates alone lacks living water from Christ.  Are the contradictory quotes issued from the same mouth, evidence of life-giving teachings?  You must agree, absolutely not; which proves JWs do not know Christ, because your teachers have no living water from Christ, within them.  Matt 7:15-20  AND…it doesn’t appear, then disappear. The living water of Christ within the heart of an anointed one is constant and eternal.   

“No spring of water pours out sweet water and bitter water from the same opening. ^ A fig tree, my friends, cannot bear olives; a grapevine cannot bear figs, nor can a salty spring produce sweet water.”  James 3:11,12

The organization and its leaders have pushed Christ aside, but still mentions him; They have also pushed aside the anointed who are part of his Body, but still mentions them.   It has assumed the role of Mediator between God and men.  The GB has assumed the role of Headship over the anointed Body of Christ.  All of this was prophesied to happen.  Rev. chapter 13; 2 Thess 2:1-12 

“For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus”  2 Tim 2:5

You are taught the “gospel” of the Watchtower organization; not the gospel of Christ, and most definitely not what the apostles taught.    No one can begin to know Christ unless they break away from perverted gospel. 

^ “But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. ^4 For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted—you may well put up with it!”  2 Cor 11:3,4

I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, ^7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. ^8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. ^9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

^10 For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ.

Watchtower’s words about a past summer’s conventions:  “The conventions will examine Jesus’ life as outlined in the Bible and emphasize how all, can benefit in practical ways from His example and teachings."

This is the summation of the teachings of Jesus by JWs.   Practicality.

"Have you not even read this Scripture: ‘The stone which the builders rejected, This became the chief corner stone; This came about from the Lord, And it is marvelous in our eyes’?” Mark 12:10,11

Will Jehovah's Witnesses recognize Christ's marvelous presence, or will their perception be altered by a continuous declaration of a failed date of his arrival? Christ began ruling in the heavens NOT in 1914, but upon his ascension; and if one adulates praise to false prophets teaching a false doctrine, as well as believing in spiritual safety (peace, paradise) to be found only through and within an earthly organization, they will not see the glory of Christ's return.

"So remember what you have received and heard; and keep it, and repent. Therefore IF YOU DO NOT WAKE UP, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come to you." Rev 3:3

" While they are saying, “Peace and safety!” then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape". 1 Thess 5:3

Would the Father in heaven keep us hanging by a dangling chord continually unraveled by changing doctrine? No. His word is concise and PURE, never allowing darkness (the list of rejected dates) to overcome the light of truth.  Within the confined walls of the organization, Christ's light is snuffed out through practicality and deceit. He calls his anointed ones, and all who care to listen, to come to HIM, to “come out” (Rev 18:4-8)  from the captive walls of an organization built on arrogance, pride, its boasting that it is salvation; and suppression of his own brothers, through disfellowshipping and shunning those who dare question the Governing Body/Harlot and her cohort the Wild Beast/organization/elder body.  Tell me, if JWs believe in Christ, why is it the GB’s “fellow servants” can be disfellowshipped for rejecting their pseudo headship over them, when realizing they must turn to Jesus as their only Master? Matt 24:48-51; Rev 11:1-3,7-10; Luke 12:11,12; 21:12

Doesn’t this make you wonder why someone would be deemed as spiritually “dead” for following God’s Son? John 16:2  WHO, would love to see the end of Christ and his anointed ones, but Satan?  WHO, was behind the hunting of Jesus to kill him when he was a child?  WHERE, are the anointed ones now found – conveniently?  Rev 16:13-16

And WHO, are you obeying, Christ or men? What glory do you see, and what glory do you seek; that of a "mountainlike" manmade religion.....or that of Christ, who radiates the glory of the Father?   Phil 3:18,19; Zech 4:7

 

 

[Srecko Sostar]

tack
tacking
zigzag

Nautical:  

the heading of a sailing vessel, when sailing close-hauled, with reference to the wind direction.

a course run obliquely against the wind.

one of the series of straight runs that make up the zigzag course of a ship proceeding to windward.

 

WHAT IS, WHO IS, WHAT KIND OF   w i n d   FORCING   WT company to change courses??

 

 

[James Thomas Rook Jr.]

3 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

WHAT IS, WHO IS, WHAT KIND OF   w i n d   FORCING   WT company to change courses??

The Society's Theology is being re-defined by ... and has been re-defined for some time ... by it's accountants and lawyers.

The most blatant example is the change in what constitutes a disfellowshipping offense for taking blood and blood fractions.

The scriptures say "abstain from blood".  Very clear and unambiguous.

The lawyers are trying to stop the hemorrhaging .... of MONEY .... from lawsuits.

NOW we can take 99% of blood if it is fractionated and put in via 13 different tubes.

That is THE Classic Example.

And the Society is silent when a Brother takes "Artificial Human Blood" ... even though it is ONLY highly filtered cow's blood.

[Matthew9969]

Simply put....when the watchtower say's it has 'new light' on a matter, aka like with the overlapping generations doctrine, we do know it is not coming from the bible, it is coming from the one who transforms himself into light....satan the devil.

And this light getting brighter in Proverbs...so one day your walking down the path...the doctrine changes and all the sudden you can't see the same path anymore. Babylon the Great now resides in Warwick and the jw's here are worshiping her.