"STANDING WHERE IT DOES NOT BELONG"

[TrueTomHarley]

Some evenings after supper we dribble the basketball out in the driveway and throw it a few times through the hoopla.

[Witness]

8 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

It is a little mean for me to do this. I agree with you on that and I’m not necessarily proud of it. I apologize.

Actually, I am the one to apologize.  I should never have made reference to it.

8 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

But for the sake of drawing out such a remark as you made above that clearly shows you regard yourself as a shining light in the darkness, even as you miss no opportunity to malign the GB, (although you have offered nothing tangible to establish your own authority,  other than an ability to quote scripture, as anyone can do) it was worth it.

Well, every anointed one should be a shining light in a dark place.  The only way that is accomplished is by speaking God’s Word, which is light.  Ps 119:105

Jesus:  “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”  John 8:12

An anointed follower of Jesus should radiate the same “light”. 

“You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.  Matt 5:14-16

Christ is the Word, he is light, and light is truth.  Eph 5:8,9

Jesus also said,  “My teaching is not my own. It comes from the one who sent me.”  John 7:16

Jesus spoke the Word of God, continually.  Although, much of it may have sounded new when he spoke, all of his teachings were based on God’s commandments.  An anointed one should also speak the Word of God by obeying Christ’s teachings. 

Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.” John 14:23

Should I interject Christ’s teachings by instigating doctrine not based on the Word and expect people to obey it?   This is why backing up an anointed one’s teachings with scripture is so vital.  Jesus spoke God’s Word.  I am not Jesus, but it is imperative for me and all anointed ones to speak the Word of God as his ambassadors.   What Jesus’ disciples heard is what we read today. Jesus expected them to obey his teachings. Every anointed one is measured by those standards of truth, not by the standards of men.

I would never expect obedience to me, but would hope one would see that through the acceptance of Christ's teachings we become obedient to the Father and Jesus.  The GB elaborates on scripture by adding to it.  1914, 1975, this generation, an organization as your “temple”, etc.  They add their own rules.  Who says that this should be done by any anointed one?

The apostles and prophets who along with the chief cornerstone established the foundation of TRUTH to be built on by each anointed one.  Everything the prophets taught, everything taught by the apostles encompasses the entire Bible.  All of it, comes together at the opening of the “new scrolls” during the last days, in the understanding of Revelation; which really isn’t new, but its meaning is new, giving us awareness of how Armageddon plays out.  Dan 12:4

What if I planned to lay a slab concrete foundation for a house I was preparing to build.  Wouldn’t I be  very careful how the slab was laid?  A building contractor once told me, if the foundation is poorly done, the house will fail.  The materials of concrete and rebar are the basics needed.  What if, when ready to pour the slab, I decide to get cheap, and added more water than required for a good pour;  and instead of spacing rebar at say, 12 inches, I choose 48 inches.  Also, I decide not to make it at least four inches thick, but choose two inches instead.  I have created my own faulty standards that lead to a cracked and ultimately failed foundation.  What if I was pouring this slab for someone else’s house and their house  in time began to suffer from a cheap foundation that I poured?

The leaders of the Watchtower had the basics to lay a good “foundation” – the Bible, God and Christ; but what have they done?  They’ve gotten cheap by changing the recipe of Truth, and have instilled their own doctrine.   They teach the doctrine of men, with truth scattered here and there.  Their foundation was shifting from the beginning (pyramids, those early books by both Russel and Rutherford, continually revised teachings).. and it still is shifting.  In this case, not only was the word of Truth watered down, but too much sand was in the pour.  Matt 7:21-27; Heb 12:15; Rev 8:11  

So yes, I quote long passages because within them is spiritual truth that benefits us today.   

8 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

although you have offered nothing tangible to establish your own authority,  other than an ability to quote scripture, as anyone can do

Authority.  Truth has authority to bring us life, or because of its rejection, death.  I am just a mother and grandmother who was anointed when young.  I rejected it for a long time, only wanting to be a good JW, who thought about an earthly spiritual paradise to come.  However, the organization’s hypocrisy pricked my spiritual integrity – and I resolved to find, and develop spiritual intelligence.  With that, came the spiritual drive that is pretty hard to ignore, through the direction of Holy Spirit.  Revelation’s “two witnesses” sound truth to their own people – Christ’s servants, who have allowed their own “house” to become cracked and unstable. 

[Anna]

1 hour ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

That is why, when some rich friends headed to Chile, I made it a point for them to get the “answers” on those 3 KH in question.

So, what were the answers?

[Srecko Sostar]

10 hours ago, Anna said:

I guess it's because of this Sept 2016 WT

Yes Anna, probably "wind of change" introduce new view on beard issue. So, "my truth" about it till the 2015, the year of my leaving JW,  was true also. :))

 

[Srecko Sostar]

11 hours ago, JW Insider said:

I asked about why he thought an inconsistent policy would be encouraged. His answer to that question was what really seemed more disconcerting:

"Because if some congregations do and some don't, the government will see that this is a matter of conscience, and will realize that they [local JWs] aren't being ordered to handle the matter one way or another [based on a directive] from the [Watch Tower] Society."

I didn't have the heart to point out that this is a strange way to prove that something is really a matter of conscience.

If it is said in this way, it is not so surprising to be true. Some "clever" (read - spirit guided) individual/s from (??? HQ, Chile Betel, ...or somewhere else) found the new way how to run "theocratic warfare strategy". Inventive idea, for sure, but revealing to all of us, how deep some people are ready to go in manipulative behavior. 

Lies are untruths told for selfish reasons and which work injury to others. Satan told a lie to Eve that worked great harm to her and all the human race. Ananias and Sapphira told lies for selfish reasons. But hiding the truth, which he is not entitled to know, from an enemy does not harm him, especially when he would use such information to harm others who are innocent...The only way they can fulfill the command to preach the good news of God’s kingdom is by use of theocratic war strategy. By underground methods....Today God’s servants are engaged in a warfare, a spiritual, theocratic warfare, a warfare ordered by God against wicked spirit forces and against false teachings. God’s servants are sent forth as sheep among wolves and therefore need to exercise the extreme caution of serpents so as to protect properly the interests of God’s kingdom committed to them. At all times they must be very careful not to divulge any information to the enemy that he could use to hamper the preaching work. - https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1957327

[Srecko Sostar]

11 hours ago, Anna said:

If this fact, then the WT really needs to revisit the definition of conscience!

In my opinion, many things about "conscience" are problematic and causing questions. If it was original idea from God, when created human, to give to them that "conscience" as reliable instrument for making correct thoughts and deeds in ones life, than this have to be Unique thing and Only way for people how to live the life. 

In the meantime, from first days of human until now, we built empire of laws and rules, commands and similar. Why? To regulate people life in some society. By this we silently agree with conclusion how human conscience is not proper Divine instrument which is adequate to resolve things in mutual dealings, interactions between people. Even JHVH contribute to list of Law about what is forbidden and what is obligated. By such events, "freedom of conscience" was came under power of Ideology (Doctrine) described in The Law. 

Similar situation is also in JWORG. It can't be different. Idea of conscience in Society is in that range too. You can/may have your conscience, but your conscience have to be Trained and Guided by Bible Principles. What are Bible Principles? We (GBFDS) are authorized to explain you how looks and what are Bible Principles. So, your conscience are not any more Divine Instrument given by God, but Learned Behavior in particular group, society. Even in theoretically, religiously given explanation given to "worldly people" how you reject blood, flag salute, military service etc. because of your "Bible trained conscience" that is not as it was said that way. Because, here we have Ideology Law, Doctrine as fundamental stone mark for your choice. Your conscience as private belonging is submitted to One Idea (religious, political, social...).  

In such circumstances (rough, hard, under pressure) it is not our Conscience that giving Resistance, but our Knowledge about issue and/or our Membership to particular ideology or group.

This Chile information's about Society and Conscience Matter are explainable in this frame of how society working and modeling or remodeling members conscience, builds and crashes ideology.

[TrueTomHarley]

10 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

These are the problems I see when witnesses from a free society don’t understand the prospects of other countries. They think they can instill western values in areas that reject them.

 

Exactly 

 

10 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Therefore, the only ones worthy of accommodating the brotherhood in Chile, are Chilean Brothers, no one else.

Exactly.

When Billy is hot, he’s hot.

It is not unlike the situation described at Acts 21:20

“and they said to him: “You behold, brother, how many thousands of believers there are among the Jews; and they are all zealous for the Law.  But they have heard it rumored about you that you have been teaching all the Jews among the nations an apostasy from Moses, telling them neither to circumcise their children nor to walk in the [solemn] customs.  What, then, is to be done about it? In any case they are going to hear you have arrived.  Therefore do this which we tell you: We have four men with a vow upon themselves.  Take these men along and cleanse yourself ceremonially with them and take care of their expenses, that they may have their heads shaved. And so everybody will know that there is nothing to the rumors they were told about you, but that you are walking orderly, you yourself also keeping the Law.”

The governing arrangement back then assumed authority to do such things, even telling Paul to act differently from what he would otherwise do, so as to counteract hurtful reports and reassure others.

They were not to be second-guessed in such decisions. They “girded themselves as men” and directed a course of action that easily could have been criticized by ones having inadequate knowledge of the culture and circumstances.

In fact, on theancientworldnewsmedia.com back then, they did take a lot of heat for it.

[TrueTomHarley]

6 hours ago, Srecko Sostar said:

17 hours ago, Anna said:

I guess it's because of this Sept 2016 WT

 Yes Anna, probably "wind of change" introduce new view on beard issue. So, "my truth" about it till the 2015, the year of my leaving JW,  was true also. :))

Oscar Oxgoad entered the Kingdom Hall as he always does that day—clean shaven. But at the end of that Watchtower study he bent over and fumbled about in his overstuffed bag—I couldn’t make out what he was doing 

He straightened up and walked about after the song with a huge Santa Claus beard.

I knew he was going to do something like that! I knew it!

He is such an idiot.

[Srecko Sostar]

10 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

In one account, a group of Chilean youths stormed the KH, took down the JW.org flag and replaced it with a Chilean flag.

JW org flag replaced with Chilean flag ..............and all that was happened in Chile Land not in JW Land ? :))

It seems that these youths forgot how KH is in fact  Embassy of Foreign Country and have Their Own Flag on Their Own Territory inside Chilean State. 

[Srecko Sostar]

3 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Oscar Oxgoad

is not an idiot. Only used right tool to show to other Ox's how things are and looks if you standing on other side of fence.

Shamgar son of Anath, who struck down six hundred Philistines with an oxgoad. He too saved Israel.

Perhaps Oscar, you spoke about, was/will save somebody life too. :))

 

 

 

 

[TrueTomHarley]

26 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

is not an idiot. Only used right tool to show to other Ox's how things are and looks if you standing on other side of fence.

Shamgar son of Anath, who struck down six hundred Philistines with an oxgoad. He too saved Israel.

Perhaps Oscar, you spoke about, was/will save somebody life too. :))

 

 

 

 

Trust me. He’s an idiot.

[JW Insider]

19 hours ago, Witness said:

Well, every anointed one should be a shining light in a dark place.

Your entire response here and in one or two earlier posts in this thread appear to be exactly what I would expect to hear from an anointed person. I believe you speak out in the hope that readers will reject the falsehoods and accept truths in their place. Which is fine. Perhaps you also want all readers to reject the entire association with the JW Organization, as you think it has gotten so far off track. This is where I think you are being impractical.

On the first count, obviously we should reject all falsehoods and accept truths to the best of our ability. On the second part, what do you think would be wrong with continuing to associate with the same brotherhood from which has sprung so many truly anointed persons? And then, if one considers himself to be anointed, continuing to bear righteous spiritual fruit (love, joy, peace, etc) that will have a positive and upbuilding effect on others.

I don't consider myself anointed, of course, but this (above) is also the same thing I believe I would try to do if I were. If you believe the GB are creating a "dark place" for other anointed persons, why not be that light in a dark place, as far as it depends upon you? Perhaps you personally are in a situation where you have been kicked out of the synagogue for calling the leaders blind, and it seems nearly impossible or unfruitful to go back. But if other anointed persons decided to merely set a good example of "shining as illuminators" among the same brotherhood in which they were called, do you think it would be wrong for them to remain in the state they were called? Since we were effectively called as slaves into a certain "household of faith" I think 1 Cor 7:19-24 gives a thought that might be related:

(1 Cor 7:19-24) Circumcision means nothing, and uncircumcision means nothing; what means something is the observing of God’s commandments. ²⁰  In whatever state each one was called, let him remain in it. ²¹  Were you called when a slave? Do not let it concern you; but if you can become free, then seize the opportunity. ²²  For anyone who was called in the Lord when a slave is the Lord’s freedman; likewise anyone who was called when a freeman is a slave of Christ. ²³  You were bought with a price; stop becoming slaves of men. ²⁴  In whatever state each one was called, brothers, let him remain in it before God.