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"STANDING WHERE IT DOES NOT BELONG"

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Re-posting this with additions, on the identity of the Man of Lawlessness.  I can’t seem to find my previous post that was made under the past label “Controversial” a long while back. 

 

Imagine a large room, where genuine anointed ones from the organization have gathered together. I say “genuine” because it is becoming a discreet trend for many to partake during the memorial, who are not anointed. In my mind, I see this as another attempt by Satan to seduce individuals into thinking that all are part of the anointed Body of Christ, under the New Covenant; and which is another step, in concealing who are the “holy ones”.

Imagine that these anointed ones in the room are robed in the holy garments that clearly identify them in like manner as the early holy priesthood, awaiting sanctification to serve in God’s Temple. Exod 28:39-43; 39:22-31; 1 Cor 6:11; 2 Cor 7:1; Heb 8:5 

 From a door located on one side of this large room, another group arrives; men who are not wearing the holy priestly garb. They are not “circumcised” priests, but are “Gentiles” that have unofficially entered the courts of God’s Temple. Each man approaches and stands before an anointed priest, removes their holy garments, and dons the stolen robes, masking the true intentions of the heart. Rom 2:28,29; 9:6; Heb 8:10; 1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Joel 2:1-2; Rev.9:3-10; Matt.24:21; Luke21:20,24; Rev.13:10,7 

They tell the anointed ones to exit by the other door; which they do, with no questions asked. The result obliterates any “daily sacrifice” that only the authentic priests are able, and are obligated, to perform. With the new fraudulent priesthood come new “sacrifices of praise” that support - not God - but an idol. 1 Chron 23:30-32; 2 Chron 20:11,12; Ezek 8:6; 2 Cor 11:20; Matt 24:15; 1 Pet 2:5; Rom 12:1; Heb 13:15; Rev 2:20   

These “uncircumcised” “Gentiles” have been given free access by powerful, rebellious traitors against Christ, to enter God’s Temple…and defile it. No longer does God hear the praises from his holy ones, and no longer can His “living stones” be called, Holy. God’s genuine priesthood has been “defrocked” and a false priesthood now demands their obedience. Ezek 5:11; 1 Cor 3:17; Luke 16:3; Ezek 44:6-8; Rev 13:11,12,15; Ps 79:1  

In reality, we do not see the anointed priesthood wearing holy garments. Within the Watchtower, we cannot distinguish how they are set apart for a special work under the New Covenant. Mark 14:22-24 We may only notice them partaking of emblems at the memorial each year; but please, JWs, picture them as each one being part of God’s Temple, and a “living” Temple “stone”. John 2:19-21;1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17 Should these stones be replaced with those ‘carved’ by men? Deut 27:5-8; Exod 20:25; Matt 16:18  

Because it takes spiritual discernment to see this, the Watchtower relies on their ability to cover over these spiritual insights of scripture; and by doing so, have successfully defrocked God’s priesthood, replacing them with “uncircumcised” “Gentiles” – the Body of Elders. Ezek 44:23,24; Mal 2:7-9 The "sacrifices of praise" by this false priesthood do not ascend to God, since those have been abolished. They are praises supporting the Watchtower Idol - "Jehovah's organization". Rev 13:4,7,8    

Watchtower 02/8/1 “REPRESENTING the royal priesthood are appointed elders, who serve in positions of responsibility in congregations of Jehovah’s people around the earth. These men deserve our respect and wholehearted support, whether they are of the anointed or not.” “Rather than CHALLENGE their authority, we truly appreciate our hardworking elders!”

To enforce this blasphemous authorization of replacing God’s Temple priests, the article boldly states:
“Jehovah’s spirit is upon them; they have his approval.”

Is this true? God’s Word verifies that it has never been acceptable for his temple priesthood to be replaced. 2 Chron 23:6;13:9; Ezek 44:6-9  

Matthew 24:15 – “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ (the “disgusting thing”) spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand)” 

How can we relate this scripture to the elder body having authority over the anointed priesthood in the organization? Rev 11:1,2, shows “Gentiles” overtaking the sanctuary/"holy place" of God, and robbing the anointed priesthood of their ‘holy garments’; thus desolating this spiritual sanctuary. 

Also, Daniel reveals the intentions of Watchtower’s leaders to destroy God’s “sanctuary”:

“He even exalted himself as high as the Prince of the host; and by him the daily sacrifices were taken away, and the place of His sanctuary was cast down. 12 Because of transgression, an army was given over to the horn to oppose the daily sacrifices; and he cast truth down to the ground. He did all this and prospered. “ Dan 8:11,12

What do the “daily sacrifices” include?  They are the expressions of truth each priest must speak and teach, but the anointed have allowed “Gentiles” to absorb these priestly duties; becoming unfaithful to their Master, Christ. Deut 11:18; John 14:16,17;15:5,16 These corrupters of truth are teaching what is  “marked” by a false prophet, who disseminate untruths – defiled “sacrifices” praising an organizational idol, which are rejected by God. Jer 9:2-8; 7:28  The authentic priesthood is obligated to dispense this regulated spiritual food, or face expulsion.   Mal 2:7-9; Rev 13:15,16  

 

In Pearl Doxsey’s article, “Teach the Distinction”, she speaks of the duties God’s priesthood are to perform under their High Priest, Jesus Christ:

“The first job of priest is to praise God (

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,
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) so that all sheep may know and revere God accurately. 

The second job of priest, is to teach all worshipers the distinction between what is clean, and what is defiled (

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;
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).

The UNfaithful priests not only fail to teach the people the difference between the sacred and the common (

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) 

...they also call the unclean, sacred; and the sanctified, they pollute and destroy...including YHWH's own Temple (

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;
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). 

In the time of the end, both failures merge; because it is the lost boundary between sacred priest (

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; Titus2:14; 
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,
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) and Gentile (
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), that allows the entrance of the counterfeit Gentile priesthood of elders into the sanctuary to serve as priests. 

These Gentiles comprise a vile Organizational Beast given false divinity (

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,
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).... a false god... a collective of unclean counterfeit "priests" raised up within God's anointed household... into an "Image" to obey, slave for, submit to, and worship [
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,
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; --("Lord's people"/"holy ones"-
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 are not elders); 
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].  

The last powerful and “unusual” force of Daniel’s image expresses two contrasting elements – one of clay and one of iron, found together. The entirety of this image describes powers that have affected God’s people during their individual historic reigns, but please consider Pearl’s comment on the last power and fourth beast that the anointed ones face today in the Watchtower organization.

From the article,  “Iron and Clay” –

“The feet of the image shows that the reign over the anointed in the time of the end, is dual.
Not only is the metallic element still there (as it was in the previous powers- All "Gentiles"-not God's people) (Gentiles-Iron); for the first time, the statue contains "clay" of the earth..."the offspring of MANKIND". (Dan.2:41-43) 

This clay represents those who belong to the "Potter" (Isa.29:16; 45:9; Jer.18:6; Rom.9:21), and they SHOULD be molded by Him alone. But instead, they mold themselves to the Iron (Gentiles) by conforming themselves to the iron, allowing the iron to mold them, rather than God.

Unknowingly, these "clay" actually conform to Satan's will, becoming a part of Satan's dominion over God's people (Rev.9:1; 17:12). In a short time, that clay hardens to this form (as baked clay), and is no longer useful to its original owner. It is now suited only for destruction as an extension of Satan's "body".  

This has come to pass, in that the anointed today are dominated within the Organization, not only by spiritual "Gentiles" alone; but by their own brothers who have joined in with the Gentiles to dominate their brothers in Christ....the wicked steward with "confirmed drunkards" from outside the master's household (Matt.24:45,48-51). 

When Christ, through the final capstone, "smashes" the feet of the image of Daniel (Dan.2:34,45; Heb.11:10; Eze.3:8,9; Isa.50:7; 45:17; 49:8; 54:4; Micah.1:2); it is not smashing all of Satan's world, but only the Image Satan has used to dominate God's people, which is NOT Satan's entire world-wide dominion.

It is well known that the Image of Daniel does not contain all the political identities which have ever existed in Satan's world; But only ones which have dominated God's chosen people.”  

An early Watchtower magazine compares JWs with the Nethinim and Gibeonites who have united together to support the anointed remnant. 

WT 63/7/1 p. 416:   The antitypical Nethinim and Gibeonites have associated with the priestly remnant in worshiping Jehovah alone as God, willingly becoming temple assistants in support of the remnant of “living stones” of the spiritual temple. 

All sounds well and good by this early admittance to the anointed as “living stones” of God’s Temple, but it is rarely made today, if at all;  since all focus is now on the Watchtower organizational idol, and no longer on God’s Temple and its development.  Rev 13:1,5,6; 16:13,14  To let you know, the Nethinim, or “temple servants” were part of the listed group of returning with Israel, it’s priests and Levites, from captivity in Babylon during the time of King Cyrus. Ezra 2:43;8:20; Nehemiah 7:7  The Gibeonites were pressed into service after deceiving Joshua to make a covenant with Israel, long before this time period. Josh 9:3-23  Their name is also recorded as individuals helping in the temple building process.  Neh 3:7  

However, after King Cyrus issued the decree that captive Israel was to return home from Babylon, there was opposition that the people faced once the new temple foundation had been laid.  A resettled people, enemies with the intention of obstructing the completion of the temple, deceitfully presented their help in the building process. 

 When the enemies of Judah and Benjamin heard that the returned exiles were building a temple for the Lord, the God of Israel, they approached Zerubbabel and the family heads and said to them, “Let us build with you, for we also worship your God and have been sacrificing to him since the time King Esar-haddon of Assyria brought us here.”  Ezra 4:1,2

The Samaritans had taken up residence in the land when God’s people entered captivity, and were the prime threat in rebuilding the temple in Ezra’s day. From the northern tribes after the split of Israel, they claimed to be descendants of Ephraim and Manasseh; even of the Levite tribe; yet, at that time period, they were bitter enemies of the southern Kingdom of Judah.

But Zerubbabel, Jeshua, and the other heads of Israel’s families answered them, “You may have no part with us in building a house for our God, since we alone will build it for the Lord, the God of Israel, as King Cyrus, the king of Persia has commanded us.” Then the people who were already in the landdiscouraged the people of Judah and made them afraid to buildThey also bribed officials to act against them to frustrate their plans throughout the reign of King Cyrus of Persia and until the reign of King Darius of Persia. Ezra 4:3-5

This event is mirrored in the Watchtower by enemies of Christ who resist any further “construction” on God’s Temple. Rev 9:3-7; 13:7 The priesthood in covenant with God has allowed modern day “Samaritans” from the “north” to persuade them with similar tactics as happened in Ezra, Nehemiah and Haggai’s day; employing confusion, bribery, threats and lies to keep these “stones” from their restoration into God’s Temple. (Ezek 38:14-16; Dan 11:14-16) 

The persuasion is so convincing that the anointed willingly hand over their royal “robes”, their identity as God’s priests, to the Man of Lawlessness, the elder body.

“Zion stretches out her hands;
there is no one to comfort her.
The Lord has issued a decree against Jacob
that his neighbors should be his adversaries.
Jerusalem has become
something impure among them.”  Lam 2:17

Please, JWs, educate yourselves of the vital importance of this priesthood dominated by the fourth Beast of Daniel’s visions. Dan 7:7 Not only are the anointed ones affected by such a crushing duel power, but also are all who reside in the organization. We are to FLEE AWAY from this abomination and come to the true Mountain and restoration of Daughter Zion, that will destroy the last power to afflict God’s people. Matt 24:16; Joel 2:20,25-27  

 

Pearl Doxsey, 4womaninthewilderness blogspot

“Who Gathers, Who Partakes”

“Sanctified, Justified, Declared Righteous – How?”

 

 

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This is such a pathetic, narrow-minded, microscopic and miniscule application of a prophecy that has a global relevance. What a waste of spirtual space if this is all Jehovah had in mind in prompting Paul to prophesy in such a manner! 

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@The Witness / Pearl Doxsey - Why don't you just create your own club on here and preach your own version of Christianity?

I get that you are relating many items back to JW's but you could do better in your own club rather than challenging every JW on here.

'You get more flies with honey" sort of thing....?

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And Abʹsa·lom would say to him: “See, your matters are good and straight; but there is no one from the king giving you a hearing.”  

And Abʹsa·lom would go on to say: “O that I were appointed judge in the land, that to me every man might come that happens to have a legal case or judgment! Then I should certainly do justice to him.”

 

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First off, I find it incredible that even though I posted a picture of a pagan idol standing in the assumed “House of God”/Bethel in Canada, not one JW blinked an eye. Exod 20:5 Is this because the elder body approves of it?  This particular post has caused an outrage here -  why?  Because the elder body disapproves of the anointed ones speaking up for themselves in the name of Jesus Christ?  Rom 14:4

7 hours ago, Outta Here said:

This is such a pathetic, narrow-minded, microscopic and miniscule application of a prophecy that has a global relevance. What a waste of spirtual space if this is all Jehovah had in mind in prompting Paul to prophesy in such a manner! 

 

Did you even read the scriptures?  What is it with JWs and scriptures?  You have overtly belittled God’s Temple; as if His primary purpose is to destroy all mankind instead of focusing on His Temple priests to be found pure and blameless and strong in faithfulness to Him and Christ.   1 Pet 2:5,9; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22; 1 Pet 5:10  Do you believe the Kingdom will come with no challenge made to the integrity of each anointed one and you, simply because you are “safe in Jehovah’s organization”?  Luke 22:31; 1 Thess 5:3

“NO LIE IS TO BE FOUND IN THEIR MOUTHS; THEY ARE BLAMELESS”  Rev 14:4,5  Certainly this does not include a GB who readily gloss over each and every failed prophetic date and doctrine they have made and put the blame on JWs for believing it.  Phil 1:9-11    If the anointed and all JWs gloss it over also, what is their position before God?  Rev 18:4-8

2 Thess 2:1-4:

“Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 

Don’t your wayward anointed leaders (“as if from us”) preach that God’s Kingdom ruled by Christ was born in heaven in 1914?  That the “day of the Lord” has come?

Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessnessis revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God."

What is God’s Temple to you?  All of JWs, as I have heard Samuel Herd comment? (He, of all people should know the true meaning of God's Temple)   Is it Warwick?  The organization?  Or, is it found in Christendom?  Who has the authority to cast out God’s Temple priests?  The same elder body that approved of an idol in Watchtower’s House of God.  Yes, it is the elder body that claims the same exemption as Christendom for clergy confidentiality in their lawsuits; yet, at the same time also claiming NOT to be priests/clergy.

You and all JWs have been hoodwinked.  In the first fulfillment of Matt 24:15, Jerusalem was destroyed by the Roman army. 

Who make up “New Jerusalem” today? 

I’ll refresh your memory:

On its 12 gates, there are inscribed the names of the 12 tribes of Israel. Therefore, this symbolic city is made up of the 144,000, who were sealed “out of every tribe of the sons of Israel.” (

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) In harmony with this, the foundation stones have on them the names of the 12 apostles of the Lamb. Yes, New Jerusalem is not the fleshly nation of Israel founded on the 12 sons of Jacob. It is the spiritual Israel, founded on “the apostles and prophets.”
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.  Re chap 43, pp 305-313

 WHY would the second fulfillment be found anywhere else but in spiritual "Jerusalem"? Your leaders have you convinced that the “man of lawlessness” (Rev 13:5-7,18) is found in Christendom; yet, this entity is mentioned again in Revelation 11:

“I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, “Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, with its worshipers. But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months.”  Rev 11:1,2

Measure it – each anointed one - by what standards?  The standards of truth in Christ.  Dan 8:12; Rev 3:18  There are anointed ones who have accepted Christ’s refinement, repentant for gulping down lies and practicing idolatry to an organization that claims to be the route to salvation. Acts 4:12  The rest are still inside trodden down by the threat of disfellowshipping by those who are not spiritual “Jews”.  Rev 2:9

The temple priesthood is being obliterated, and JWs take it with a grain salt, since the organization has replaced the Temple “living stones” of Zion, with elders who are the image of “Jehovah’s organization”  - a counterfeit temple called earthly "Zion."  Rev 13:15

And you believe that God will not be bothered by this? You believe that His “special possession” that once sealed in the heavens, ushers in the Kingdom...you believe they are minutia?   I back up what I say with scriptures.  Can you do the same?

Then I looked up, and there before me was a man with a measuring line in his hand. 2 I asked, “Where are you going?”

He answered me, “To measure Jerusalem, to find out how wide and how long it is.”

3 While the angel who was speaking to me was leaving, another angel came to meet him 4 and said to him: “Run, tell that young man, ‘Jerusalem will be a city without walls because of the great number of people and animals in it. 5 And I myself will be a wall of fire around it,’ declares the Lord, ‘and I will be its glory within.’

6 “Come! Come! Flee from the land of the north,” declares the Lord, “for I have scattered you to the four winds of heaven,” declares the Lord.

7 “Come, Zion! Escape, you who live in Daughter Babylon!” 8 For this is what the Lord Almighty says: “After the Glorious One has sent me against the nations that have plundered you—for whoever touches you touches the apple of his eye— 9 I will surely raise my hand against them so that their slaves will plunder them. Then you will know that the Lord Almighty has sent me.  Zech 2:1-9

 

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6 hours ago, The Librarian said:

@The Witness / Pearl Doxsey - Why don't you just create your own club on here and preach your own version of Christianity?

I get that you are relating many items back to JW's but you could do better in your own club rather than challenging every JW on here.

'You get more flies with honey" sort of thing....?

Librarian, you have been extremely kind and tolerant of my being here.  I don’t care to start my own club or religion.  The “two witnesses” during the time of the end preach to spiritual “Israel” who are the anointed ones.  If I am asked to leave, I will; but until that time, I will continue to preach to JWs wherever they are found; and that will be here if you continue to have me.     Rev 11:3,4; Zech 4:12-14,8-10; Matt 10:23

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6 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

And Abʹsa·lom would say to him: “See, your matters are good and straight; but there is no one from the king giving you a hearing.”  

And Abʹsa·lom would go on to say: “O that I were appointed judge in the land, that to me every man might come that happens to have a legal case or judgment! Then I should certainly do justice to him.”

 

Are you so naive that you cannot see your own GB/elder body stumbling all over themselves trying to practice “justice”? Prov 29:7   All their failed attempts are costing the Watchtower a lot of money.  They are spiritually “bloodguilty”, not only for ousting God’s anointed priests and many others as spiritually “dead”, but turning their backs on victims of their own committed atrocities. Wickedness abounds in the organization and JWs tolerate it.  Zeph 2:1-3; Micah 1:2

 

 

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6 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

And Abʹsa·lom would say to him: “See, your matters are good and straight; but there is no one from the king giving you a hearing.”  

And Abʹsa·lom would go on to say: “O that I were appointed judge in the land, that to me every man might come that happens to have a legal case or judgment! Then I should certainly do justice to him.”

 

Just to remind you, I have never preached “me”, unlike your self-assumed “faithful and discreet slave”, who preach themselves as fully equipped to judge in “righteousness”.  I address the grave situation with the anointed Body of Christ, Temple, “living stones” of God’s priesthood.   Your leaders “feed” on your praise, and at the same time, would rather “kill” their brother than have them challenge their faulty, corrupt teachings. 

“This is what the Lord says: “As for the prophets who lead my people astray, they proclaim ‘peace’ if they have something to eat, but prepare to wage war against anyone who refuses to feed them.”  Micah 3:5

“Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother’s were righteous.”  1 John 3:12

 

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47 minutes ago, Witness said:

You and all JWs have been hoodwinked.

Well you are having a good go at ithe hoodwinking, but actually you aren't having much success. Just lengthy diatribes of multicoloured text. There are some scriptures there, the only relevant sections actually, but what lies in between is just a set of bitter sounding words without meaning or substance.

Jesus said "his sheep will by no means follow a stranger but will flee from him because they do not know the voice of strangers" John 10:5. I'm sorry to say, yours is a very strange voice.

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51 minutes ago, Outta Here said:

Well you are having a good go at ithe hoodwinking, but actually you aren't having much success. Just lengthy diatribes of multicoloured text. There are some scriptures there, the only relevant sections actually, but what lies in between is just a set of bitter sounding words without meaning or substance.

Jesus said "his sheep will by no means follow a stranger but will flee from him because they do not know the voice of strangers" John 10:5.

Look at the scriptures following John 10:5:

7 Therefore Jesus said again, “Very truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep. 8 All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them. 9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. They will come in and go out, and find pasture. 10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full."

This leaves out another path to salvation as the organization claims.  I wish this wasn't so hard to see. No one can give spiritual credibility to an organization in Satan's world as the path to life.  

The Destroyer is Satan, who uses lies and deception to kill; to rob us of Truth in Christ. Ask yourself, is the organization's foundation on pure truth?  JESUS is the only gate, not an organization.  It is HIS voice that I and many others are now listening to, as the scriptures tell us to do.  

56 minutes ago, Outta Here said:

I'm sorry to say, yours is a very strange voice.

In his day, among his people, Christ's voice and those who preached "the way", was "strange" also.   Matt 5:10-12;10:40; Mark 9:37; John 15:18-21; John 16:2  

 

 

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One effect of a disenfranchised anointed-in-the-wilderness model is that unity of Christians diminishes and ultimately dissolves. Christianity becomes little more than a personal code, molded differently in each individual by the greater forces of national, social, wealth, racial, educational divisions. Inevitably, Christians are at each other’s throats, each happy to do “what is right in his own eyes,” modified by a smileyGod face.

Sometimes I think it is chosen for just that reason. It is the disunited world that Christians came out of. Why on earth would anyone want to go back into it?

The point is, Witness, I haven’t seen any evidence that you actually DO anything, beyond crashing posts and reading half the Bible to those within.

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15 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Sometimes I think it is chosen for just that reason. It is the disunited world that Christians came out of. Why on earth would anyone want to go back into it?

You think I have fallen back into the world.  

If I walk in the path of Christ, am I part of the world?  John 17:14

The teachings of Christ have no part in the world.

The teachings of men (which you believe in) are the teachings of the world.     1 John 4:1,4-6

An earthly organization requires fleshly thinking, fleshly servitude and material money – signs of what the world offers and what the Watchtower puts to good use in every way possible. 

Worshiping in “spirit and truth” does not require membership to any “temple”. John 4:24   Check the Watchtower about this, (wp16 No. 2 p. 9)  On the other hand, we must remember that you are devoted to a “temple” – “Jehovah’s spirit-directed organization”; an idol much “different” than any other. Dan 7:7; Rev 13:1,5-8; Isa 44:17-20

Which do you love more, God or the organization, or have their identities "blurred" together as your June Watchtower warned about when speaking about idolatry?   They are so good at hypocrisy.

I do not want any part of your world.  1 John 2:15,16 

15 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

One effect of a disenfranchised anointed-in-the-wilderness model is that unity of Christians diminishes and ultimately dissolves. 

Really?  

The “wilderness” is where true Christianity in Christ is found.  

More scriptures.  

“And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: 27 They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise as it was also in the days of Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; 29 but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.

31 “In that day, he who is on the housetop, and his goods are in the house, let him not come down to take them away. And likewise the one who is in the field, let him not turn back. 32 Remember Lot’s wife.33 Whoever seeks to save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it34 I tell you, in that night there will be two men in one bed: the one will be taken and the other will be left. 35 Two women will be grinding together: the one will be taken and the other left. 36 Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left.”

37 And they answered and said to Him, “Where, Lord?”

So He said to them, “Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”

The “body” are those under the “woman” New Covenant who have lost any life they knew while in the organization, for their testimony to Christ.  They were disfellowshipped for rejecting the “worldly” system that you belong to – a pseudo spiritual paradise. 1 Thess 5:3  They are despised and considered the “garbage of the world”.  1 Cor 4:12,13

“For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.” Matt 16:25

Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars. Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth.

 Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. 14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. Rev 12:1,2,13,14

The “wise virgins” belonging to the “woman” enter the door with Christ and join the Marriage Feast “in the wilderness”.  All who leave your spiritually polluted “world” are invited.     The “foolish virgins” continue to “buy” their spiritual provisions/”oil” from a wicked slave.  Matt chapter 25; 24:48-51; Rev 13:16,17

In their case, the god of this age has blinded the minds of the unbelievers to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 2 Cor 4:4

The pumped up glory of the organization far exceeds the JW knowledge of the glory of Christ, otherwise they would seek only him and the Father.

Your eyes are filled with earthly things to admire and serve.  Who really is it, that is part of the world, you or me?

15 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Inevitably, Christians are at each other’s throats, each happy to do “what is right in his own eyes,” modified by a smileyGod face.

 

"what is right in his own eyes"

The Watchtower has replaced the smiley face with Caleb and Sophia.  What did the early Watchtower call it?  "Crafty promoters of religion"?

 

 

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3 hours ago, Witness said:

Who really is it, that is part of the world, you or me?

Next thing you know, you will be asking some politician to sign your Bible.

Or telling another one that he represents the political manifestation of God’s kingdom on earth.

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3 hours ago, Witness said:

Who really is it, that is part of the world, you or me?

Next thing you know, you will be asking some politician to sign your Bible.

Or telling another one that he represents the political manifestation of God’s kingdom on earth.

It is simply what happens when ones go loner. They drift here. They drift there. They may stay solo or may end up in one of several polar opposite camps.

You also did not respond to this portion of my comment, which stands out because you responded to virtually every other part:

5 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The point is, Witness, I haven’t seen any evidence that you actually DO anything, beyond crashing posts and reading half the Bible to those within.


 

 

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6 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Next thing you know, you will be asking some politician to sign your Bible.

Or telling another one that he represents the political manifestation of God’s kingdom on earth.

Oh yes, I saw the news clip yesterday.  I mentioned this to my husband and relayed the past bible signing event by the GB.

 

signing bibles.jpg

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13 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

The point is, Witness, I haven’t seen any evidence that you actually DO anything, beyond crashing posts and reading half the Bible to those within.

Believe me, I am far from being alone and this is not the only forum or avenue used where people are being reached.  Zech 4:6  You are accustomed to established religion and the works of men; whereas God’s Holy Spirit touches the heart, providing direction to any who desire truth. ( Ps 19:1-4)  John 6:45; 15:26

It takes deliberate effort to study the Bible.  I can say anything I like, but if I can't follow it up with scripture, it means nothing.  Here's an example:

1971 "Shortly, within our twentieth century, the "battle in the day of Jehovah" will begin against the modern antitype of Jerusalem, Christendom." (The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah; 1971; 2nd ed.; p. 216)

That was believed, and sought after by JWs.  Statements such as this one have created a captivity to falsehoods.  If we love scriptural truth, we are drawn to it; and if it means reading half the Bible to find it and understand it, we do it.  

 

 

 

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19 hours ago, Witness said:

Christ's voice and those who preached "the way", was "strange" also. 

Now now, at John 10:5 Jesus wasn't talking about his voice being "strange". He was talking about those such as yourself who concoct all sorts of strange notions with scriptures thrown in for good measure. Your interpretations voice very strangely alongside the words of the "Fine Shepherd". But not to fear, his sheep listen to his voice, and because they know his voice, they follow him, certainly not you.

5 hours ago, Witness said:

I am far from being alone

Indeed, "because broad is the gate and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are going in through it; Matt 7:13.

 

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1 hour ago, Outta Here said:

Now now, at John 10:5 Jesus wasn't talking about his voice being "strange". He was talking about those such as yourself who concoct all sorts of strange notions with scriptures thrown in for good measure. Your interpretations voice very strangely alongside the words of the "Fine Shepherd". But not to fear, his sheep listen to his voice, and because they know his voice, they follow him, certainly not you.

Indeed, "because broad is the gate and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are going in through it; Matt 7:13.

 

Oh Eoin, your eyes are so sleepy.  JWs cannot hear the voice of Christ over the haughty voices of men who have exalted themselves well above all anointed; including their one true Head, Jesus Christ. Should they wield power over any other member of the anointed body of Christ?  1 Cor. chapter 12

Do I care to worship with people who don’t recognize the true Temple of God?

Who admire the “work of their hands” over God’s own House?

Who expect God’s “special possession” to bow down to a “Gentile” elder body?

Who disfellowship the anointed for turning to CHRIST?  (they must hear his voice 😊)

Who disfellowship victims of child abuse because they make a noise?

Who disfellowship anyone who reject lies?

Who fight tooth and nail in courts of law to uphold their own corrupt doctrine?

Who side with the nations for aid when they are being persecuted?  They are so desperate.

Who are so “ignorant” of God that they believe that He looks the other way when false prophets and their predictions never come true?

And of all stupid things…who get away with admiring an idol from the nations, by placing it in their own Idol/house of their god?

The “law will go out from Zion”, the gathered, redeemed people of God; a remnant who have rejected “bad association” and praise only one God and His Son.   Isa chapter 2.  Notice what it says at the end of this chapter?

Stop trusting in mere humans,
    who have but a breath in their nostrils.
    Why hold them in esteem?  Isa 2:22

This is what Revelation 18:4-8 is speaking about. “Get out of her, “my people”. 

Do not be misled: “Bad company corrupts good character.” 34 Come back to your senses as you ought, and stop sinning; for there are some who are ignorant of God—I say this to your shame.” 1 Cor 15:33

The organization is nothing but a delusion tactic of Satan, to lead JWs down the broad road not one that leads to life.  2 Thess 2:9-12

 

 

 

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Witness said:
14 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Next thing you know, you will be asking some politician to sign your Bible.

Or telling another one that he represents the political manifestation of God’s kingdom on earth.

Oh yes, I saw the news clip yesterday.  I mentioned this to my husband and relayed the past bible signing event by the GB.

 

signing bibles.jpg

That cracked me up ...  with snarky criticism of alluding to recent (past few days) national news that Trump signed Bibles for various clergymen (which was heavily criticized in the "fake media" by those with severe TDS )  ... and then seeing the posting of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses signing Bibles for politicians.

I had seen that before, but I had completely forgotten about it.

Thanks TTH .... always good for  some  "reducto ad absurdum" humor at the oddest times.

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irony.jpeg.eb37e79a0bd788fb78be22b2072461d5.jpeg

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1 hour ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Thanks TTH .... always good for  some  "reducto ad absurdum" humor at the oddest times.

Reducto Ad Absurdum my foot, you dolt!

Trump is a non-religious politician who says “Two Corinthians.”

The GB are brothers taking the lead who say “2 Corinthians.” 

It’s pretty much the equivalent of a church minister signing a parishioner’s Bible upon request.

It’s not the kind of thing that I would ever care to do. But the urge to obtain VIP/celebrity signatures appears to be hard-wired into the genome.

 

 

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36 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

... and to GIVE THEM OUT ... if you perceive YOURSELF as a "celebrity" !

Wait until ‘Rooked’ catches on in Rio Linda. You’ll wear out your arm giving autographs.

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1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Trump is a non-religious politician who says “Two Corinthians.”

The GB are brothers taking the lead who say “2 Corinthians.” 

I am guessing by "2" you mean "2nd", and not another "two".   

1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

It’s not the kind of thing that I would ever care to do. But the urge to obtain VIP/celebrity signatures appears to be hard-wired into the genome.

 

I can just imagine how JWs would react if a GB member offered to sign their personal  Bibles at a convention.   Worth standing in line for?

I personally find this Bible narrator one of my favorites.

    Hello guest!

 

 

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On 3/9/2019 at 6:26 PM, Witness said:

I posted a picture of a pagan idol

Isn't an idol something you worship? Otherwise it's just sticks and stones in the shape of a man isn't it?

Or firewood:

"He plants a laurel tree, and the rain makes it grow. Then it becomes fuel for a man to make fires. He takes part of it to warm himself; He builds a fire and bakes bread. But he also makes a god and worships it. He makes it into a carved image, and he bows down before it. Half of it he burns up in a fire With that half he roasts the meat that he eats, and he is satisfied. He also warms himself and says: “Ah! I am warm as I watch the fire. But the rest of it he makes into a god, into his carved image. He bows down to it and worships it. He prays to it and says: “Save me, for you are my god.” They know nothing, they understand nothing,Because their eyes are sealed shut and they cannot see, And their heart has no insight.  No one reflects in his heart Or has knowledge or understanding, saying: “Half of it I burned up in a fire, And on its coals I baked bread and roasted meat to eat. Should I, then, make the rest of it into a detestable thing? Should I worship a block of wood from a tree?”” Isaiah 44: 15-19

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Anna makes a very good point:

If it IS an idol representing something ... what SPECIFICALLY is it?

Does it have a name?

Does it have a description?

Does it have a history of any religious significance?

Anybody now leaving bags of Potato Chips at the base?

I remember seeing your (?) original picture posting.

It is an impressive piece of abstract massive art as far as i can tell. (?)

Reminds me of the old story of a psychiatrist showing Rorschach  ink blot cards to a sexually criminally insane prisoner, and to every ink blot card he was shown, he gave a vile, sexual, and ugly description of what he supposedly saw.

Finally, the shrink lost his temper and called him several unprofessional names befitting the prisoner's warped mind.

The prisoner replied:

"Why are you angry with ME?

... YOUR the one with the dirty pictures!"

Or, as the Eagles once sang about standing on the corner, in Winslow Arizona ..

" Don't let the sound of your own wheels ... make you Craaaaaa-zeee !"

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, Witness said:

JWs cannot hear the voice of Christ over the haughty voices of men who have exalted themselves well above all anointed

The problem here is that it is not possible to hear the voice of Christ coming through the cacophonous rantings in your postings. All the anti-GB propoganda comes across loud and clear, so well done there, but that appears to be it. There isn't actually any spiritual content,.other than the interspersed scriptures that is, but otherwise, it isn't even spiritual "junk food". 

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9 hours ago, Witness said:

I can just imagine how JWs would react if a GB member offered to sign their personal  Bibles at a convention.   Worth standing in line for?

It looks like you will have to just imagine it. In your zeal to discredit those you hate, you did not notice that the posted photo DOES NOT show them signing Bibles for the friends, but for “public officials.” Whatever was the cause or setting, you appear to misrepresent WT photos as much as you do Scripture itself.

10 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

if you perceive YOURSELF as a "celebrity" !

Come, come. Grown adults should not make themselves children. Even if they HAD signed Bibles for the friends, it would not be something that I would lose my cookies over. They clearly are celebrities in the sense of being known and beloved figures.

Nor, though it is none of my business, am I particularly incensed that Trump signs Bibles for the church people. Who cares? If one loves him, it is not an appreciable detriment. If one hates him, it is not an appreciable intensification.

What we do know is that JW Broadcasting has turned GB members into media stars and they are not especially happy about that. Thus the Bethel tour requests not to ooh and aah if you see one of them in the hallway, and the published counsel that they do not want to be accosted for selfies. Prior to this, they were not publicly recognizable figures to me, though I’m sure they were to some, nor did I necessarily know how many of them they were at any given time.

I recently heard, I forget where, of Brother Herd being ambushed for a selfie, glowering a bit to the one who had assured him that such would not take place, but in the end acquiescing. Smiling Brother Lett appears to be the one most likely to throw that counsel to the wind and pose with any Brother Tom, Dick, or Harry that comes along, but even he must have limits.

https://www.theworldnewsmedia.org/forums/topic/63261-let-us-appreciate-brother-lett/

 

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9 hours ago, Anna said:

Isn't an idol something you worship? Otherwise it's just sticks and stones in the shape of a man isn't it?

 

8 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Anna makes a very good point:

If it IS an idol representing something ... what SPECIFICALLY is it?

Does it have a name?

Does it have a description?

Does it have a history of any religious significance?

Anybody now leaving bags of Potato Chips at the base?

I remember seeing your (?) original picture posting.

It is an impressive piece of abstract massive art as far as i can tell. (?)

I can tell you are struggling with this.  But, your idea, Anna, opens up a field of possibilities.  Why not put a clay Buddha statue on the living room coffee table simply because he appears so benevolent?  Or, a gilded wooden cross on the wall because it is a superb piece of art.  Or, a statue of Mary, Peter or Joseph in the garden.  Again, they are just formed of earthen clay. 

The Inuksuk bears an image that the Watchtower identifies with.  Its symbol is important enough to put inside the Branch in an area where the native people who revere this statue, are potential “bait”.

The Inuksuk brings good luck, like a rabbit’s foot.  Should we start carrying a small version in our pocket?

Here is its description. 

    Hello guest!

Here is WT’s information next to the stone image: 

“Often defined as “that which acts in the capacity of a human”, these giant landmarks have been use as markers and for navigation by the peoples in Canada’s far north. Just like the Inuksuk, our literature is able to speak on our behalf in hard to reach places

When the people saw that Moses was so long in coming down from the mountain, they gathered around Aaron and said, “Come, make us gods who will go before us.  Exod 32:1

The page description linked gives the detailed story.

Perhaps every JW should have one in their entry hall, since it appears to signify the mobility of the preaching work.  There must have been a GB member at the celebration of the Branch remodel, so you might get away with it where you live.  Unless, it's not the approved "dress code" for the area.  

 Better yet, what about a wooden Asherah pole which also was established on the “high places” by the nation of Israel.   The Inuksuk sounds like a male image; the Asherah, the goddess of fertility.  They should get together and have children; proof that the preaching work is producing "fruit".    It sounds crazy doesn’t it?

“He will give their kings into your hand, and you will wipe out their names from under heaven. No one will be able to stand up against you; you will destroy them. 25 The images of their gods you are to burn in the fire. Do not covet the silver and gold on them, and do not take it for yourselves, or you will be ensnared by it, for it is detestable to the Lord your God. 26 Do not bring a detestable thing into your house or you, like it, will be set apart for destruction. Regard it as vile and utterly detest it, for it is set apart for destruction.”   Deut 7:24-26

I am sure the early idols seemed harmless to men, but to God, no image was to stand between Him and His people. 

“Of what value is an idol carved by a craftsman?
    Or an image that teaches lies?
For the one who makes it trusts in his own creation;
    he makes idols that cannot speak.
19 Woe to him who says to wood, ‘Come to life!’
    Or to lifeless stone, ‘Wake up!’
Can it give guidance?
    It is covered with gold and silver;
    there is no breath in it.”  Hab 2:18,19

Absolutely no image at all; even one men call “spirit-directed”.

  • We cannot take part in any modern version of idolatry—be it worshipful gestures toward an image or symbol or the imputing of salvation to a person or an organization. (
      Hello guest!
      Hello guest!
    )    w90 11/1 pp. 23-28

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

It looks like you will have to just imagine it. In your zeal to discredit those you hate, you did not notice that the posted photo DOES NOT show them signing Bibles for the friends, but for “public officials.” Whatever was the cause or setting, you appear to misrepresent WT photos as much as you do Scripture itself.

 

@TrueTomHarley

"Next thing you know, you will be asking some politician to sign your Bible.

Or telling another one that he represents the political manifestation of God’s kingdom on earth."

I knew exactly who the GB were signing the Bibles for. That's why I posted the picture; it fit your comment perfectly.  The cause or the setting makes one wonder, doesn't it?  Is it too hypocritical for the GB to sign Bibles belonging to "friends", yet easily done for those in the "world"?

If I hated you or any JW, I wouldn't be here begging each and every one of you to read Rev 18:4-8, to take heed of the sins of God's anointed people.  How readily JWs throw out the word "hate" to "apostates", yet have I ever used that word against any JW?

 

(Addition)  “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."  Matt 5:43-48

 

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20 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Is that an unaltered photo?

I will believe it when I see it.

Here's the source of the original photo.  It's pretty clear a JW took the picture and didn't doctor it up.  

    Hello guest!

 

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3 hours ago, Witness said:

Here's the source of the original photo.  It's pretty clear a JW took the picture and didn't doctor it up.  

    Hello guest!

 

If it is, it is. If you got in there somehow to put up the crossbars, the brothers will saw them off in good time.

5 hours ago, Witness said:

If I hated you or any JW, 

Come now. You are not going to tell me that you do not hate the governing body. Sometimes it seems your sole purpose of existence.

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1 hour ago, TrueTomHarley said:

If it is, it is. If you got in there somehow to put up the crossbars, the brothers will saw them off in good time.

Come now. You are not going to tell me that you do not hate the governing body. Sometimes it seems your sole purpose of existence.

OK, I admit it, I put up the crossbars.  :)

No, I don't hate the individual members of the GB.    In fact I pray that they wake up and notice their anointed "brothers" in Christ. I see many "apostates" criticize, and make fun of, everything personal about them; such as their individual quirks.  I try not to go that far.   I picture them in my mind as men who soberly would admit they have made mistakes that have hurt so many.  But, it won't happen.

It is the composite "Harlot"'s lies  that I detest.  Rev 13:11

I also don't hate the individual members of the elder body.  At one time both my husband  and brother were elders.  I have known some who were actually  compassionate.  They didn't last in the organization.  I detest what they represent, a counterfeit priesthood/man of lawlessness.  

  

 

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14 hours ago, Witness said:

OK, I admit it, I put up the crossbars

Look, I have been there. And any number of people I know were involved in the construction. If there was anything so pronounced as your picture suggests, it would have been all the buzz. Assuming for a moment that it is real, maybe it is something that must be viewed at a certain angle.

Why in the world would they deliberately work it into the construction, anyhow?

15 hours ago, Witness said:

I pray that they wake up and notice their anointed "brothers" in Christ. 

In a reality of your devising, how would these anointed "brothers" of yours be treated? 

How does anyone know that they actually are anointed, since the only requirement of claiming that status is to claim it?

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15 hours ago, Outta Here said:

What! Do they even steal the tyres off your bikes in that den of iniquity?????Pah! nothing is sacred these days!

It's actually part of of a strategics strategy to steal THREE bicycle tires (American spelling for tyres..), that way they do not get accused of being .... *coff* .. two tired,  to fix the "crosses".

1892677624_BETHELTOWER.jpg.64c6ffc82ec15a6cafb61636dab721c4.jpg

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From the upward slant of the angle that the photograph was taken, the edge of the ledge cuts off perhaps two feet of the bottom part of the piece of shiny vertical stainless steel.

I STRONGLY suspect there is another  horizontal piece obscured by perspective below the ones shown here, looking like a "cross", exactly like the one shown, below on each vertical member, to attach to the sheets of plate glass, through holes in the glass,  to keep it from flexing, in high wind.   (Eventually, one of those plates of glass will somehow get broken).

The plate glass would not normally rest on the stone surface for many reasons, including collecting water, debris, and accessibility to maintenance for cleaning.

That photo was taken somewhere about 35 degrees above horizontal, looking up.

That would make it TWO horizontal cross arms for each rail support ... not a crucifex at all ! 

Four support points or "tabs" for each sheet of glass, attached to the railing supports. That makes perfect sense to me.

Further, from the  specular highlight reflectance  of those tabs, it appears they are on the other side of the glass.  That would make sense so you can unbolt the damaged glass plates  without a 50 foot ladder, and can stand where the visitors are shown, to do it.

Look at how the CORNER posts horizontal tabs are attached  in the original picture !

I would bet money that I am right.

 

Any takers?

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53 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

In a reality of your devising, how would these anointed "brothers" of yours be treated? 

How does anyone know that they actually are anointed, since the only requirement of claiming that status is to claim it?

Rom 8:16, unless one has left their covenant in Christ and follows another spirit; which, if the GB was in Christ, their relationship with their anointed brothers and sisters would be completely different.  They would make every effort to unite the anointed together.  Instead, they make every effort to keep them from "bonding".  Eph 4:1-6  A "faithful steward" of God's spiritual household manages all provisions provided by the household and distributes them to the sheep, accordingly.   He does not squander away the gifts that each anointed one possesses.  Luke 16:1-4 When the Body is unified, able to work together, Holy Spirit flows among them as well as recognizable love between all members. John 15:5 This is what Paul taught the early anointed ones.   All members are to be aware of each other and what they have to offer, as well as their individual needs.  1 Cor chapter 12; Eph 5:25-33

Otherwise it is sinning against the Holy Spirit.  

The GB does not recognize that "one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills."  1 Cor 12:11

Think about your relationship with your wife.  Ideally...we are aware of our spouse's needs and appreciate what our spouse adds in the relationship. The anointed as a unified Bride should be working as one, aware that they have only one Master, one "husband", Christ.  No other anointed one should assume authority over those who must listen only to Jesus.  Matt 24:48-51

Since this is not the case in the organization, one must ask, why isn't it.  

 

 

 

 

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43 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

Any takers?

More photos are needed to compare?  I am not saying it is deliberate, but there are some suggestive forces that are able to manipulate the mind...unknowingly. Eph 2:2  Why on earth would the early Zion Watchtower have three crosses on the tower?   Who thought that one up?

 

I do believe lighting had everything to do with the clarity of the "cross" brackets on Warwick's tower.    (Luke 8:17)

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52 minutes ago, Witness said:

Why on earth would the early Zion Watchtower have three crosses on the tower?   Who thought that one up?

Sigh ... this is getting tiresome, and I have to go put new headlights on my car this afternoon.

The stone Watchtower on the old magazine cover had WINDOWS in the side of the tower.

WINDOWS to let in light, and ventilation, but designed the way they were so that you could shoot ARROWS, spears, and pour flaming oil and push stones  on the ones seeking to scale the walls to break into your fortification.

The walls are several feet thick.

That means that, from the INSIDE,  by varying your angle from left to right, and top to bottom, you can shoot OUT of a VERY narrow slit, as the incoming projectiles have a good chance of being deflected by the wall and SIDES of the cross SHAPED window.

It's NOT a crucifex design .... its a weapons platform, that happens to be cross shaped.

There is a difference!

If your mind has an agenda driven motivation, EVERYTHING you see , hear and experience will be WRONG. 

This will appear normal, and wise to you.

It's not what we think we know ... or what we really do know ...... it's about not getting suckered into a mind set where everything we actually do know .... is WRONG.

There is a LOT out there.... and if you have WDS ( Watchtower Derangement Syndrome ), seeing things that are not really there,you will miss most of it, and die ignorant .... and wrong.

It's a sword that cuts BOTH ways.

 

 

101866882_ZionsWatchTower_Oct11907.thumb.jpg.00525bbaf395dee34956c03655e97006.jpg

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38 minutes ago, Witness said:

Since this is not the case in the organization, one must ask, why isn't it.  

 

You did not answer the second part of my question: 

How does anyone really know that these “brothers” of yours are really anointed, since all they must do is self-identify? Even (gulp) @James Thomas Rook Jr. could do that. (Not that he would)

33 minutes ago, Witness said:

Why on earth would the early Zion Watchtower have three crosses on the tower?   

 Because they believed then that Christ died on a cross. They no longer do. Is it that flabbergasting?

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10 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

It's NOT a crucifex design .... its a weapons platform, that happens to be cross shaped.

There is a difference!

OKAY!   :) 

@TrueTomHarley  "Because they believed then that Christ died on a cross. They no longer do. Is it that flabbergasting?"

So...two reasons.  I'll choose which one I want to believe.  

Yep, "Watchtower Derangement Syndrome".  

 

  •  

 

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11 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

How does anyone really know that these “brothers” of yours are really anointed, since all they must do is self-identify?

Again, Rom 8:16.  Of those anointed that I have talked with, the anointing experiences are very similar.  

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38 minutes ago, TrueTomHarley said:

How does anyone really know that these “brothers” of yours are really anointed, since all they must do is self-identify? 

I should explain a little better.

If the anointed are working together under the one Spirit of Christ, they know “all things”.  John 20:22; 1 John 2:27

It is the “Helper” that provides direction, even in recognizing the spirit in another anointed one. 

“But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.”  John 14:26

The Holy Spirit is God’s way of communicating with each of His anointed children.  One translation of Rom 8:16 says,


"God’s Spirit makes us sure that we are his children."

Phil 2:13  - AMP:  "[Not in your own strength] for it is God Who is all the while effectually at work in you [energizing and creating in you the power and desire], both to will and to work for His good pleasure and satisfaction and delight."

The Spirit brings the Body together.  Another spirit resists the Bride of Christ; desiring the anointed to remain apart.  Their uniting together in complete faithfulness would seal them into the Kingdom of God.  Satan does not want to see the end of his rule. 

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1 hour ago, Witness said:

Again, Rom 8:16.  Of those anointed that I have talked with, the anointing experiences are very similar.  

 

1 hour ago, Witness said:

If the anointed are working together under the one Spirit of Christ, they know “all things”.  John 20:22; 1 John 2:27

Okay. Got it. Inside information. That’s how YOU know.

Now, how does anyone else know? 

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2 hours ago, Witness said:

They would make every effort to unite the anointed together.  Instead, they make every effort to keep them from "bonding"....A "faithful steward"...does not squander away the gifts that each anointed one possesses. 

Practically speaking, what would you like to see happen?

3 hours ago, Witness said:

All members are to be aware of each other and what they have to offer, as well as their individual needs.  

Practically speaking, what would you like to see happen?

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8 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

What we do know is that JW Broadcasting has turned GB members into media stars and they are not especially happy about that. Thus the Bethel tour requests not to ooh and aah if you see one of them in the hallway, and the published counsel that they do not want to be accosted for selfies. Prior to this, they were not publicly recognizable figures to me, though I’m sure they were to some, nor did I necessarily know how many of them they were at any given time.

This is not a reply to you TTH, just general. What would someone do, anyone, if Moses came back,  or Abraham? Of course I am not comparing members of the GB to those particular characters, what I am comparing is the aspect of fame due to the simple fact that they are known by a large number of people. To be known by many people means that as a rule you will be famous, whether you like it or not. That's all there is to it. What I do know is that members of the GB try their best to blend in where they can, and most Witnesses respect that. A few years back we had Br.Losch at out convention. Him and his wife sat just one row in front of us, with everyone else. After the session, he did not get inundated with friends trying to speak to him. In fact he was able to eat his lunch in peace, and even afterwards there was no commotion around him. On the other hand, as some have noticed, Br. Lett likes pictures with the br. and. sis. So what? Some people are more people persons than others...

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6 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I STRONGLY suspect there is another  horizontal piece obscured by perspective below the ones shown here, looking like a "cross", exactly like the one shown, below on each vertical member, to attach to the sheets of plate glass, through holes in the glass,  to keep it from flexing, in high wind.  

 I don't think you have to suspect:

 

image.png

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2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Now, how does anyone else know? 

For you, in the Watchtower?  They don’t make it easy.

 WT 16/1 pg 23   "If it is not possible to know with certainty the names of all spiritual Israelites on earth today, how can members of the other sheep “go with” them? Notice what the prophecy in Zechariah states concerning the figurative ten men. These ones would “take firm hold of the robe of a Jew, saying: ‘We want to go with you, for we have heard that God is with you people.’” Although only one Jew is mentioned here, in both instances the pronoun “you” refers to more than one person. This spiritual Jew must, then, be a composite person, not just one individual! So it is not necessary to identify every spiritual Jew and then go with him or her. Rather, we need to identify these ones as a group and then support them as such. In no way do the Scriptures encourage us to follow an individual. Jesus is our Leader.—

    Hello guest!
. 

But wait.  Where are all eyes trained to listen to, and follow the direction of?  The GB, both individually and as a group.  Where are all the other anointed ones?  Who knows.  You don’t need to identify them.

There is a suffocating message throughout the entire article, implying the typical JW  can’t trust an anointed one, as anointed.  I suppose you look for those who partake at the memorial, hoping they are true to the calling; or wait for someone to speak out. 

Truly, in the organization there is NO WAY to get to know each anointed one, especially if they mimic the teachings of those anointed leaders they must obey.   When the article above says, “Jesus is our Leader”, it really isn’t true in the Watchtower.  The GB is their leader. 

 

2 hours ago, TrueTomHarley said:

Practically speaking, what would you like to see happen?

Practically speaking, what would you like to see happen?

 

Practically?  I would love for them and you and all JWs to leave the organization.  The ‘joining up’ of the anointed as a working Body is impossible under the GB’s rule, but very possible outside of condemning rule.  Rev 18:4-8

The anointed who have left now speak with a spiritual voice just as the GB speaks and they are finally being heard.    I don’t know if you recall when JW Insider gave a great comment on the spiritual battle at the time of the end. I should look it up.  This battle is a warfare against “heavenly forces”; one of evil origin, one of Holy Spirit. They influence and motivate the anointed according to the deep-seated intentions of their heart.  Ultimately, what comes out of their mouth is either lies or truth. 

If there are two beautiful apples in a bowl to choose from, it isn’t until we take the first bite, or turn it over and inspect it for rot, that we know the choice of “fruit” between the two apples, we will willingly eat.  Unless our taste buds are totally out of whack.  

If an anointed “tree” is nourished solely by living water from Christ, it would produce good “fruit”.  Nothing blemished, or rotten, nothing needing to be changed. 

 If a “branch” is part of the “vine” of Christ, it’s fruit also would be well worth “eating”.  Holy Spirit is not faulty, Christ isn’t blemished, his living water is pure.  He is the bread of life. 

Armageddon is not a physical war, but is a spiritual battle between THESE kings – Christ’s kings -  that now is apparent. 

It is fought on the “low plain of decision”; the deep recesses of the heart’s desire to accept either truth or lies.  Joel 3:14

Jesus told us we would know those whom HE sends “by their fruit”, their teachings. Are they unblemished?  Do they last? Matt 7:15-20; Matt 3:10; John 15:1-8,16

Satan also sends his counterfeits, once in Christ under covenant, but who speak twisted teachings and crooked ways.  These anointed ones were tempted by Satan’s worldly offer of material possessions and power, just as Jesus was.  Luke 4:7  Satan demands to "sift" each anointed heart.  It is the harvest.  Luke 22:31; Matt 13:30

Yes, kingdoms will continue to fight against kingdoms in Satan’s world, because he will make sure of it, to fulfill his interpretations of scripture.    But the important “war” at hand, is the one Paul predicted at the time of the end,

Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.13 Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 

Eph 6:10-13

 

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6 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

"I can do without Caleb and Sophia".

And you know why, because if you were into Caleb and Sophia that would be really weird, since you are an adult.

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40 minutes ago, Witness said:

If a “branch” is part of the “vine” of Christ, it’s fruit also would be well worth “eating”. 

And if it's not, it gets lopped off. So leave it to Jehovah.

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6 hours ago, Witness said:

Because they believed then that Christ died on a cross. They no longer do. Is it that flabbergasting?

They used to have the cross and the crown emblem as well, it's to the left of the same WT. The cross stood for Jesus's sacrifice and the crown symbolized the crown of life that the anointed would receive after death.

As for the castle windows, as @James Thomas Rook Jr. says:

    Hello guest!

image.png

 

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1 hour ago, Anna said:

They used to have the cross and the crown emblem as well, it's to the left of the same WT. The cross stood for Jesus's sacrifice and the crown symbolized the crown of life that the anointed would receive after death.

I have already known that the the early Bible Students believed in the cross, and am aware of the cross and crown symbol; but, thank you.  It is also symbol that has been used by the Catholics and other religions, but primarily non-christian Freemasons.  Which makes one wonder what it really means.  

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2 hours ago, Anna said:

And if it's not, it gets lopped off. So leave it to Jehovah.

Yes, we leave it to God, but Jesus still expects us to discern good fruit from bad fruit if we want to receive life. Matt 12:33; Luke 6:43-45;  Luke 8:14,15  We do not enter the Kingdom on a tail wind of questionable, changed,  teachings and doctrines not outlined in the Bible.  If a branch remains in Christ, and teaches truth sourced in Holy Spirit; the hearer who receives it, who welcomes it, gains life from the living water sourced in the vine - sourced in Christ.  John 7:38

 

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On 3/11/2019 at 11:03 AM, Witness said:

Why not put a clay Buddha statue on the living room coffee table simply because he appears so benevolent?  Or, a gilded wooden cross on the wall because it is a superb piece of art.  Or, a statue of Mary, Peter or Joseph in the garden.  Again, they are just formed of earthen clay. 

Because the Buddha, gilded wooden cross, and statues of saints were made specifically for the purpose of veneration.

It seems that the primary and original purpose of the inuksuk was navigational aids and not objects of veneration.  But as with everything, humans who do not know the truth about Jehovah attach spiritual significance to just about anything they want. In India the cow becomes holy,  for Christendom salt becomes holy (blessed salt), For Muslims a natural spring of water (the Zamzam well) becomes holy...etc. etc. The point is a cow is a cow, salt is salt, a spring is a spring. Just because people decide to turn something that originally had no such significance into something different, that’s their problem. The inuksuk has no such significance at the Canadian Bethel. It would be like saying we can’t use salt because some religion blesses it and makes it holy. Now it would be totally different if this item was made to have spiritual significance from its creation, like your aforementioned examples. But it is clear that the inuksuk originally had no such significance.

 

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11 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

.... however, as I told my CO one day when he asked what I thought about the organization "I can do without Caleb and Sophia".

Who knows, the CO might have felt the same....

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21 minutes ago, Anna said:

The inuksuk has no such significance at the Canadian Bethel. It would be like saying we can’t use salt because some religion blesses it and makes it holy. Now it would be totally different if this item was made to have spiritual significance from its creation, like your aforementioned examples. But it is clear that the inuksuk originally had no such significance.

I agree with that.

BUT ... it is a crystal clear and dramatic example of "WDS" *, on the part of those AGENDA driven people.

With bad detectives .... seeing is believing.

If they had not BELIEVED something ... they would not have seen it.

 

 

* ( _"WDS" = "Watchtower Derangement Syndrome" - the sword that cuts both ways.)

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24 minutes ago, Anna said:
11 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

.... however, as I told my CO one day when he asked what I thought about the organization "I can do without Caleb and Sophia".

Who knows, the CO might have felt the same....

He grinned, but said "Well.... they have their place ..."

I rolled my eyes, but did not say anything more.

dt190312.gif

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33 minutes ago, Anna said:

Because the Buddha, gilded wooden cross, and statues of saints were made specifically for the purpose of veneration.

It seems that the primary and original purpose of the inuksuk was navigational aids and not objects of veneration.  But as with everything, humans who do not know the truth about Jehovah attach spiritual significance to just about anything they want. In India the cow becomes holy,  for Christendom salt becomes holy (blessed salt), For Muslims a natural spring of water (the Zamzam well) becomes holy...etc. etc. The point is a cow is a cow, salt is salt, a spring is a spring. Just because people decide to turn something that originally had no such significance into something different, that’s their problem. The inuksuk has no such significance at the Canadian Bethel. It would be like saying we can’t use salt because some religion blesses it and makes it holy. Now it would be totally different if this item was made to have spiritual significance from its creation, like your aforementioned examples. But it is clear that the inuksuk originally had no such significance.

 

I knew someone would come up with an "explanation" that it''s not the same as any other pagan idol.  I really can't believe your reasoning.  This isn't just spring water, or salt or a cow.  It's a well-known sacred idol that the Watchtower has adopted as their mascot in Canada, for the preaching work.  

Sacred ‘Sign Posts’ Of The Inuit People

A. Sutherland - AncientPages.com - The mysterious stone figures known as Inukshuk can be found throughout far northern areas of Alaska, Canada, Siberia, and Greenland. Inukshuk (the singular of 'inuksuit') means "in the likeness of a human" (or "that which acts in the capacity of a human") in the Inuit language.

They are man-made stone landmark, with many different meanings, used by the Inuit for communication,  navigation, as a marker for travel routes, fishing places, camps, hunting grounds, places of worship, drift fences used in hunting or to mark a food storage.

The traditional meaning of the Inukshuk is "Someone was here" or "You are on the right path."

For the Inuit people living in the circumpolar regions, Inukshuk arrangement of stones, especially its arms and legs, indicates the purpose of the marker.

Inukshuk - among the oldest and most important objects placed by humans upon the vast Arctic landscape - are a sacred symbol. The figure is the Inuit symbol of their homeland and these people tradition forbids the destruction of these objects.

An inukshuk (also known as inuksuk) is often venerated as symbolizing an ancestor who knew how to survive on the land in the traditional way. The figure can be small or large, a single rock, several rocks balanced on each other, round boulders or flat. Built from whatever stones are at hand, each one is unique.

The so-called the Hammer of Thor,  a 3.3 me (10.8 ft) tall, t-shaped, man-made rock formation is located along the Arnaud River in the Ungava Peninsula, Quebec, Canada. It was believed to have been erected by Vikings in reference to the hammer-wielding Thor of Norse mythology. However, it most likely is an artifact of Inuit culture.

Today, the inuksuk statue continue to serve as an Inuit cultural symbol. It is the centrepiece of the flag and coat of arms of the Canadian territory of Nunavut, and the flag of Nunatsiavut.

    Hello guest!

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I'm beating my head against the wall.  JWs already venerate an idol - the organization, which supposedly leads one to salvation.   Rom 1:25; Rev 13:1,4-8

What's another idol to throw into the mix, anyway?

Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. 12 It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, “Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” 13 Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, “Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” 14 No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it.

15 See, I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction.16 For I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in obedience to him, and to keep his commands, decrees and laws; then you will live and increase, and the Lord your God will bless you in the land you are entering to possess.

17 But if your heart turns away and you are not obedient, and if you are drawn away to bow down to other gods and worship them, 18 I declare to you this day that you will certainly be destroyed. You will not live long in the land you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess.

19 This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live 20 and that you may love the Lord your God, listen to his voice, and hold fast to him. For the Lord is your life, and he will give you many years in the land he swore to give to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.  Deut 30:11-20

 

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7 minutes ago, Witness said:

I knew someone would come up with an "explanation" that it''s not the same as any other pagan idol.  I really can't believe your reasoning.  This isn't just spring water, or salt or a cow.  It's a well-known sacred idol that the Watchtower has adopted as their mascot in Canada, for the preaching work.  

Sacred ‘Sign Posts’ Of The Inuit People

A. Sutherland - AncientPages.com - The mysterious stone figures known as Inukshuk can be found throughout far northern areas of Alaska, Canada, Siberia, and Greenland. Inukshuk (the singular of 'inuksuit') means "in the likeness of a human" (or "that which acts in the capacity of a human") in the Inuit language.

They are man-made stone landmark, with many different meanings, used by the Inuit for communication,  navigation, as a marker for travel routes, fishing places, camps, hunting grounds, places of worship, drift fences used in hunting or to mark a food storage.

The traditional meaning of the Inukshuk is "Someone was here" or "You are on the right path."

For the Inuit people living in the circumpolar regions, Inukshuk arrangement of stones, especially its arms and legs, indicates the purpose of the marker.

Inukshuk - among the oldest and most important objects placed by humans upon the vast Arctic landscape - are a sacred symbol. The figure is the Inuit symbol of their homeland and these people tradition forbids the destruction of these objects.

An inukshuk (also known as inuksuk) is often venerated as symbolizing an ancestor who knew how to survive on the land in the traditional way. The figure can be small or large, a single rock, several rocks balanced on each other, round boulders or flat. Built from whatever stones are at hand, each one is unique.

The so-called the Hammer of Thor,  a 3.3 me (10.8 ft) tall, t-shaped, man-made rock formation is located along the Arnaud River in the Ungava Peninsula, Quebec, Canada. It was believed to have been erected by Vikings in reference to the hammer-wielding Thor of Norse mythology. However, it most likely is an artifact of Inuit culture.

Today, the inuksuk statue continue to serve as an Inuit cultural symbol. It is the centrepiece of the flag and coat of arms of the Canadian territory of Nunavut, and the flag of Nunatsiavut.

    Hello guest!

 

You can post as many explanations as you like, but with your previous arguments about the supposed crosses I am of the impression that you are desperately looking for anything that signifies some dark intentions of the WT.  And yet, if it wasn't for the org. you would most likely be holding the cross sacred today.

From reading your extract from ancientpages.com I can still see that the inuksuk was not made for veneration but "is often venerated as symbolizing an ancestor". Two different things. I guess my point about humans finding anything to venerate was lost on you. Jehovah's Witnesses are not opposed to cultural heritage, and that is why the inuskuk is at the Canadian Bethel. I wouldn't read anymore into it than that.

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17 minutes ago, Witness said:

JWs already venerate an idol - the organization

There you go again. No, the organization is there to get one from A to B and to preach the Kingdom. That's why it's an organization.

or·gan·i·za·tion

1. an organized body of people with a particular purpose, especially a business, society, association, etc.

2.
the action of organizing something.

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15 hours ago, Anna said:

You can post as many explanations as you like, but with your previous arguments about the supposed crosses I am of the impression that you are desperately looking for anything that signifies some dark intentions of the WT.  And yet, if it wasn't for the org. you would most likely be holding the cross sacred today.

From reading your extract from ancientpages.com I can still see that the inuksuk was not made for veneration but "is often venerated as symbolizing an ancestor". Two different things. I guess my point about humans finding anything to venerate was lost on you. Jehovah's Witnesses are not opposed to cultural heritage, and that is why the inuskuk is at the Canadian Bethel. I wouldn't read anymore into it than that.

Inukshuk - among the oldest and most important objects placed by humans upon the vast Arctic landscape - are a sacred symbol. The figure is the Inuit symbol of their homeland and these people tradition forbids the destruction of these objects.

If it wasn't a symbol of veneration, it wouldn't be forbidden to remove it.  

I doubt the Canadian Bethel would go so far as to adopt the northern territory flag of Canada with an Inuksuk already on it, because it is a FLAG representing another nation; and JWs don’t “venerate” flags of other nations.    However, the organization does have its own flag that symbolizes a homeland, so why not put the Inuksuk on the jw dot org flag to symbolize the preaching work of a nation?

 

Related image

Image result for Jw.org flag

 

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15 hours ago, Anna said:

There you go again. No, the organization is there to get one from A to B and to preach the Kingdom. That's why it's an organization.

or·gan·i·za·tion

1. an organized body of people with a particular purpose, especially a business, society, association, etc.

2.
the action of organizing something.

If your words were true and that’s all there was to it, no one would be shunned or disfellowshipped for rejecting “Jehovah’s organization”.  Rev 13:1,5-7,11,15-17

"Apostasy

Definition: Apostasy is abandoning or deserting the worship and service of God, actually a rebellion against Jehovah God. Some apostates profess to know and serve God but reject teachings or requirements set out in his Word. Others claim to believe the Bible but reject Jehovah’s organization.  rs p.34-37"

 

"Wild Beast and its Ten Horns" - 4womaninthewilderness blogspot

 

 

 

 

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Sometimes it takes a REAL ARMY (Spiritual or physical) to fight against overwhelming forces. 

Some people are experts at everything ... but too few to mention.

THAT is REALITY ....

Each person has to decide for himself or herself, when the evil that ALL men do, outweighs all the GOOD that some men TRY to do.

In France, when the Allied Forces invaded on D-Day, to destroy the Nazis, they bombed and destroyed many innocent civilians to get rid of the cancer that was Nazism.  

This is called "Collateral Damage".

One French man was hiding in his basement, when Allied Bombs, attempting to kill Germans, destroyed his home, and trapped him in the basement, injured, and he died of his injuries, but also thirst and starvation.  In the dark.

He left behind his skeletonized  remains, and  a THANK YOU LETTER TO THE ALLIES ... for rescuing France from a great cancerous evil, even though it resulted in his  PERSONAL death, ... and he died slow, and alone. In the dark.

From time to time, and over long periods of time, I have been damaged by incompetent and ignorant Elders ... but I think the perspective of the Frenchman is the correct one to have ... and that is the one I have, and I am sticking with it.

I didn't like it then, and  I don't LIKE it now ... but reality is what it is ... and I am determined NOT to think like a petulant, whiny child, expecting mere mortals to be more than what they really are.

Or, as fictional Vulcan  First Officer Spock once said in a Star Trek movie ...

"Sometimes, the needs of the many are greater, than the needs of the few .... or the one."

 

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Having done land surveying for more than 30 years, I appreciate the value of large navigational markers.   Around your home you may have wooden stakes in the corners or your lots, or metal pins in the ground, but I have installed markers that cost $20,000 and required  you to dig holes 10 feet deep to set the concrete foundations for the markers ... for one point the size of a tack ... that you could see from afar off.

Several years ago I went to Norway, and across land and sea, on roads and islands between fjords, there is a massive monumentation system that defines and marks the Arctic Circle .... a THEORETICAL circle that most people do not understand why it's important, at all.

It must have cost at least  a billion dollars to install all of these .... not counting the surveying that located where they should go.

Sometimes ..... things that MOST people do not understand, are very important to those that do.

This is why I think WDS , the sword that cuts both ways ... is so very, very dangerous.

 

Norway-Roadtrip-Driving-the-to-Arctic-Circle-16.jpg

arctic-circle-marker-laurel-talabere.jpg

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On 3/12/2019 at 5:50 PM, Witness said:

It is the “Helper” that provides direction, even in recognizing the spirit in another anointed one. 

“But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.”  John 14:26

Canada has many symbols. There may be some other symbol appearing in their Betel. Why stop at the inuksuk statue?

But there is something else what we can think about as idols, idolatry, worshiping, hidden message, changed/twisted meaning. In verse quoted above one special terminology was introduced by Jesus. Word Helper or helper is equivalent for Holy Spirit of holy spirit. HE will teach You and you.

The Governing Body entrusts much to its helpers and appreciates the fine service performed by these loyal, hardworking brothers. 

    Hello guest!

It is interesting how WTJWORG find it adequate to give THIS name/etiquette/title to humans who "helping" GB members. Because GB members strongly claiming how they are NOT inspired by Spirit (in other simple words, Spirit NOT teaching them) but that they are "guided", it is significant and not far from reality how substitution for teaching from REAL, GENUINE holy spirit which source is in God, is TRANSFERRED to Artificial "holy spirits" that resides in, it's situated in Human called "GB Helper/s".

If one of meaning for Inuksuk Statue is to point the way to somewhere, or to correct your way, than this WT invention, from 1992 , is very seriously entering in the domain, radius of idolatry and worshiping of idols. How comes to that? Because Helpers are males appointed (not by HS, but by GB) to serve in various (6) Committees, which decisions, instructions and marking they way how "worshiping God has to look" is not under INFLUENCE, GUIDING, TEACHING of holy spirit as ONLY HELPER PROMISED BY JESUS, but under Human Helpers spirit. 

Who/whom JW member obey? Worshiping? JW member worshiping those or that whom or what he listening and OBEY. If you obey human person, in final moment you worshiping him, willingly (deceived or by own choice) or by force. If you obey your own idea of something or about someone, you worship your own idol created in you/yourself.  

 

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20 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

Who/whom JW member obey? Worshiping? JW member worshiping those or that whom or what he listening and OBEY. If you obey human person, in final moment you worshiping him, willingly (deceived or by own choice) or by force. If you obey your own idea of something or about someone, you worship your own idol created in you/yourself.  

 

Rom 6:16

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17 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

He grinned, but said "Well.... they have their place ..."

I rolled my eyes, but did not say anything more.

dt190312.gif

Come on James, it's just for the children. Nothing to do with marketing. When Caleb and Sophia came out I thought my kids were too old for it, so we never watched the cartoons or little videos. Now my kids are full grown. So what I am trying to say is our family has not really had much to do with that fictional family. Perhaps if my children had been younger, we may have been more involved. But regardless, kids grow up (real quick) so even if someone has had the pleasure of having Caleb and Sophia in their life, it's only temporary. After that, us adults like to get on with other things (hopefully). The only time I hear about Caleb and Sophia is when you bring it up on here. Honestly! xD

 

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3 hours ago, Witness said:

If your words were true and that’s all there was to it, no one would be shunned or disfellowshipped for rejecting “Jehovah’s organization”.  Rev 13:1,5-7,11,15-17 

Ok, I agree there is more to it. As opposed to other organizations, this one also strives to be morally and spiritually clean. The apostle Paul said to remove, and have nothing to do with those who do things contrary to scripture.

What even does shunning and disfellowshipping for rejecting the org. have to do with worshiping the org. ? You may need to revisit your understanding of what worship means.

I do not see any relevance of your  Rev. citation.

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3 hours ago, Witness said:

Inukshuk - among the oldest and most important objects placed by humans upon the vast Arctic landscape - are a sacred symbol. The figure is the Inuit symbol of their homeland and these people tradition forbids the destruction of these objects.

If it wasn't a symbol of veneration, it wouldn't be forbidden to remove it.  

I doubt the Canadian Bethel would go so far as to adopt the northern territory flag of Canada with an Inuksuk already on it, because it is a FLAG representing another nation; and JWs don’t “venerate” flags of other nations.    However, the organization does have its own flag that symbolizes a homeland, so why not put the Inuksuk on the jw dot org flag to symbolize the preaching work of a nation?

 

Related image

Image result for Jw.org flag

 

 

Now you're getting ridiculous. Not every flag out there symbolizes a nation. Some flags advertise an organization, company, product or a cause. They are called advertising  banners, and some are in the shape of a flag.

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1 hour ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Just curious “witness.” Do you belong to any church?

 

No, there is one “church”(Body) which is God’s Temple/Zion.  1 Pet 2:5,9,10; 1 Cor 3:16,17; Eph 2:20-22

One religion.  James 1:27

This is what I belong to as an anointed one.

1 hour ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

 

If you do not. Do you believe in the trinity?

 

 

"If you do not"?  Does not belonging to an earthly church, which is what you are referring to, mean that I would believe the trinity?

No, I don't.

I don’t suppose you are trying to catch me in an act of idolatry, are you?  My devotion is purely to the Father and to my Master, Jesus Christ.  John 1:2,14,18; 3:16,18; 5:17-19

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1 hour ago, Anna said:

Now you're getting ridiculous. Not every flag out there symbolizes a nation. Some flags advertise an organization, company, product or a cause. They are called advertising  banners, and some are in the shape of a flag.

I am sorry you didn't see the irony in what I posted.  Yes, the adoption of the Inuksuk by an organization that claims full devotion to God, IS rather ridiculous.

But...the jw dot org flag symbolizes Watchtower's treasure; the treasure of a homeland.  

 

Image result for jw.org diamond

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27 minutes ago, Witness said:

But...the jw dot org flag symbolizes Watchtower's treasure; the treasure of a homeland.  

No, it doesn't symbolize anything. It advertises the website*. If you can see crosses and other "symbolism" in things that are not there, then that explains everything else you say.

* which has been set up solely for the purpose of Bible education, with a small portion dedicated to JW news. 

Get with the times Witness. You are not still wearing 1st century fashion are you?

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1 hour ago, Anna said:

What even does shunning and disfellowshipping for rejecting the org. have to do with worshiping the org. ? You may need to revisit your understanding of what worship means.

Are you devoted to the organization?

Are you motivated and dedicated to serve its needs?

Do you believe it can lead you to salvation?

Is the organization your refuge?

Can you be devoted to God AND an organization?  

"Jehovah God rightly expects each of us to maintain a devoted attachment to him and his visible earthly organization."  Ps 30:4; 31:23  km 8/82 pp. 1-3

Check out the scriptures they use.  Do they mention any other recipient of devotion, other than to God?  So then, does God expect us to be devoted to an earthly organization?  They can't back up their expectations with scripture.  

A devoted attachment is equally given to God and the organization by JWs.  Break it down.  What does having a devoted attachment to God mean to you?  

 From your Bible:   “I Jehovah your God am a God exacting exclusive devotion.”  Exod 20:5

“You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. "

 

Whatever I command you, you shall be careful to do; you shall not add to nor take away from it.  Deut 12:32

Every word of God is flawless;
    he is a shield for him who takes refuge in him.

Do not add to his words
    lest he rebuke you and you be found a liar. 
Prov 30:5,6

 

 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, Anna said:

No, it doesn't symbolize anything. It advertises the website

Maybe you are one of the minority who believes that.  I don't see a lot people advertising their website quite like this.  

image.jpeg

Image result for jw.org logo  Watchtower

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5 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Does that mean you don’t physically attend a church?

That’s exactly what it means.

5 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Does it mean, if you believe in a trinity, it would have to be out loud in order to make it a symbol of veneration?

I told you, I don’t believe in the trinity, both in silence and out loud.  You’re not making sense, Allen.  What are you, an interrogating lawyer for the "Society"?   The only reason I am answering you is for the benefit of any other JW who may be reading this. 

5 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Where is Christ’s commandment to seek those with the same interest to form a bond of unity? How can a person be in a union and be part of Christ body from afar?

There is no union of the saints, who are the Body of Christ, in the organization.  The Watchtower makes sure that they remain apart.  It is discouraged that the Body of “living stones” of God’s Temple, do not study the Bible together.   1 Pet 2:5,9   What a hypocritical doctrine.    There is a union of the saints/anointed ones outside of the organization, who have been “killed” by your organization for turning to Christ.   Rev 12:14

5 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Acts 18:9 New International Version (NIV)

One night the Lord spoke to Paul in a vision: “Do not be afraid; keep on speaking, do not be silent.

And am I silent?  Isa 58:1; Rev 11:1-3

5 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Philippians 2:4

Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others.

Is the GB aware of the interests of its anointed “brothers" or just their own interests?  Matt 24:48-51

5 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Galatians 4:17

7Those people are zealous for you, but not in a good way. Instead, they want to isolate you from us, so that you will be zealous for them.

 Up until just recently, who was considered the “faithful and discreet slave”?  Who is it now?  Who is doing the isolating?

5 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Keep in mind, you are stating Jesus was wrong to develop the first Christian Church, with your understanding. Jesus was wrong in anointing the 12 apostles. Jesus was wrong in anointing the 70 to continue his public ministry.

How is that so?  What have I continually said about the Temple of God, with Christ as the chief cornerstone, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets?  The members of the anointed Body of Christ are the “church”. 

5 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Society was wrong to inherit the 3000 first Christians. Was all this done in silence? Did these people not belong to the body of Christ?  Did they not advertise out loud?

 

First of all, when you say “Society”, I am guessing you mean the Watchtower.  Are you believing there were no anointed ones after the death of the apostles and up until 100 years ago?  You believe not one Christian anointed one walked the earth for 2,000 years?  That no believer in Christ was present during that time?  

The Society didn’t “inherit” 3,000 anointed ones, they fell into Satan’s end time deception to be “sifted” by his greatest magnum opus since deceiving Eve.  Luke 22:31; 2 Thess 2:9-12 ; Jer 5:26; Ps 140:5

Tell me, how will the anointed ones be conquered in the time of the end.  They are not safe in “Jehovah’s organization” as taught, because they face a severe test at the hands of a “false prophet”.  Ezek 13:10-12; Matt 7:15; 24:24; 1 Thess 5:3

Can you explain this - Rev 13:5-7,11

5 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Did Jesus mandate, we should preach in name only? That means there are 1.6 billion Christians that are wrong by your single standard. Where does that lead to obeying God and have faith in him, when you reject all others?

 

Who are these 1.6 billion Christians?  Those outside the organization? Now you are including outsiders when before you said, the first Christians were inherited by the Society one hundred years ago? Or, is this number the entire amount of JWs over the years? 

5 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Ask yourself, how can it, be achieved with someone as yourself with others. Through telepathy? Doesn’t this imply a rejection of Christ? Remember, you have proudly stated you are NOT affiliated with any earthly church, and you don't believe in Trinity out loud.

 

Through Holy Spirit, you have heard of it, haven’t you?  Zech 4:6-14; Rev 11:3,4

A rejection of Christ?  Or, do you mean a rejection of the GB?

Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father.22 You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, forsalvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”  John 4:21-24

The spiritual dwelling place of God is within the anointed heart.  1 Cor 3:16,17; 2 Cor 6:16  On their heart is written God’s laws.  Heb 8:10  The early ark of the covenant symbolized the presence of God and housed the laws given to Moses. Under the New Covenant, God’s anointed priesthood are like that ark. Rev 11:19 Each one is to carry truth, the truth from Christ. John 17:17 When the early temple was built, the ark was placed in the “inner court” of the temple specifying God’s presence in that temple.  Jesus said, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”  “But he was speaking of the temple of his Body”.  John 2:19-21

Every anointed priest is part of the temple as “living stones”, and they ARE the temple, according to 1 Cor 3:16,17. Eph 2:20-22  During the last days, a conquering force comes upon them using deceitful lies. Rev 13:7; 20:9,10   Those who reject the lies are “killed”.  Rev 13:15; Matt 16:25; 19:29  Instead of buying spiritual food from a false prophet, these "stones" “buy gold” from Jesus Christ.  Rev 3:18  And by breaking free of this spiritual captivity of deception, (Rev 13:10)  they are the “victorious ones”, riding with Christ in the battle of truth against lies.  Rev 15:2; 19:11,19,20

 Uninspired men are unable to provide pure teachings from Christ, because they no longer carry God’s spirit in their heart.  Heb 12:15; Rev 8:10,11; 18:4-8

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

the Catholic opposers breaking into a Chilean Kingdom Hall to display a Chilean flag

???? when that happened please

Or you confused, opposers breaking into, with law fines if they not put flag on building?

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20 hours ago, Witness said:

Are you devoted to the organization?

Are you motivated and dedicated to serve its needs?

Do you believe it can lead you to salvation?

Is the organization your refuge?

Can you be devoted to God AND an organization?  

"Jehovah God rightly expects each of us to maintain a devoted attachment to him and his visible earthly organization."  Ps 30:4; 31:23  km 8/82 pp. 1-3

Check out the scriptures they use.  Do they mention any other recipient of devotion, other than to God?  So then, does God expect us to be devoted to an earthly organization?  They can't back up their expectations with scripture.  

A devoted attachment is equally given to God and the organization by JWs.  Break it down.  What does having a devoted attachment to God mean to you?  

 From your Bible:   “I Jehovah your God am a God exacting exclusive devotion.”  Exod 20:5

“You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. "

 

Whatever I command you, you shall be careful to do; you shall not add to nor take away from it.  Deut 12:32

Every word of God is flawless;
    he is a shield for him who takes refuge in him.

Do not add to his words
    lest he rebuke you and you be found a liar. 
Prov 30:5,6

 

 

 

 

You are all confused. Did God have a nation in the past? Yes, the house of Israel was God's nation. God's Kingdom on earth, with a fleshly king representing it. There was nothing idolatrous about that idea. But as you know, the nation of Israel was later rejected by God and as Jesus said to the Jews: "This is why I say to you, the Kingdom of God will be taken from you and be given to a nation producing its fruits". This became the Christian congregation made up of not only anointed Jews (Israelites) but also anointed Gentiles. Hence, this new nation came to be known as "spiritual Israel", who with those not anointed (the other sheep) became one flock.

    Hello guest!
.

JW.org is a website. The Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses is the worldwide congregation of anointed and the other sheep. If you want to call it an organization there is nothing wrong with that, since it is organized to accomplish  God's will on earth, which is the preaching of the Kingdom and making disciples: "Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.( Matthew 28:18-20) This worldwide congregation is not lead or headed by a fleshly King like in Israelite times, nor any other human,  but a heavenly king Jesus Christ. He is the head of the congregation.

    Hello guest!

There is nothing idolatrous about that arrangement, and giving support to it is not being idolatrous but it is supporting Jesus' arrangement.

And again I repeat, jw.org is a website, it is not the Christian Congregation, but merely a modern aid to disseminating the Kingdom good news.

 

 

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25 minutes ago, BillyTheKid46 said:

Try to keep up with the conversation as not to be seen as uneducated. Maybe someone like you buddy James can educate you. Ask him to IM you the info just like JWinsider and others.

I don't know anything other than what was in the news several years ago ... that on a particular national holiday, Chile requires  Churches to display the National Flag for that day on their building or flag poles ... and the Elders put one inside the building, showing through the windows, and put one on a flag pole (what's a Kingdom Hall doing with a flag pole ...anyway..?), to avoid paying a fine, somewhere around $240.

I have several photos on my hard drive somewhere, from several angles.

That's all I know.

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26 minutes ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I don't know anything other than what was in the news several years ago ... that on a particular national holiday, Chile requires  Churches to display the National Flag for that day on their building or flag poles ... and the Elders put one inside the building, showing through the windows, and put one on a flag pole (what's a Kingdom Hall doing with a flag pole ...anyway..?), to avoid paying a fine, somewhere around $240.

I have several photos on my hard drive somewhere, from several angles.

That's all I know.

You may have photos, but you don't know who put the flag there...do you? Makes me think the same group that took the pictures perhaps....?

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30 minutes ago, Anna said:

You may have photos, but you don't know who put the flag there...do you? Makes me think the same group that took the pictures perhaps....?

The picture I saw had the Chilean Flag behind the metal bars in the windows, behind the glass, inside the building, facing out, and there was a high steel rod fence with a gate around the property, with the flagpole on the property, on the grounds.

It may have been put there by Eskimos for all I know.

... but that is not probable.

 

 

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@Witness

We concern people of all nations when it comes to the head of the congregation. Jesus and his disciples spread the message to the people and we are doing just that. For someone who says they are "you know who", how'd you let that one slip through the cracks?

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@BillyTheKid46 Sometimes when people speak something that is true, there will be hecklers, haters and people who will flag videos in order to wipe them from view. And the haters are making quite the bread when they are pushing the right buttons. 

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5 hours ago, James Thomas Rook Jr. said:

I have several photos on my hard drive somewhere, from several angles.

That's all I know.

If you go to google images and type in Chilean flag in kingdom hall, several pictures pop up with flags flying either above the kingdom halls or are in the windows.  

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