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Organ Harvesting, Falun Gong, Tibet, etc. (The WEST vs. CHINA)

JW Insider

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Most posts from a previous topic that dealt with organ transplants/harvesting have been moved here. The previous topic is linked below:

Another new topic about Socialism and Communism will be posted elsewhere, in case anyone wishes to discuss those political ideas, too.



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This is more and more true as the world gets more divided, more partisan, and more nationalistic. Pride in one's own cause, nation, religion or ideology causes one to be more apt to defend one's POV with bias, and condemn, with bias, those of an "opposite" POV . It happens to the best of us, and by that I mean that there have been several documented examples even within and among our own religion.  Even sites that rarely say anything good about JWs have acknowledged

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8 hours ago, Arauna said:

These are the ONLY places a foreigner is allowed to visit.  Police follow all foreign journalists and visitors are watched. His comments confirmed the narrative.

I know for a fact that this is not true. China does not like Western journalists who are intent on telling lies and making stuff up. Nor does any country for that matter. There are thousands of journalists from many countries all over China. One would have to seek out only the negative stories not to see this. There are people in China who don't like many aspects of their government and protest against it, and this gets reported too.

There was an interesting example of Western bias using similar claims, that showed up from a famous Univision journalist named Jorge Ramos. His recent anti-Maduro interview where he was supposedly detained and cameras confiscated for reporting negative information in Venezuela got nearly a year of air-time in the United States. But then Maduro released the full interview (in Spanish) and Ramos came across like the biggest liar and word manipulator of all time. My wife cares nothing for politics, but she taught in perfectly fluent Spanish for years, and she translated the whole thing for me as we listened. The full interview that proved Maduro was a liar was hardly reported anywhere.

8 hours ago, Arauna said:

I  read today that 500 billionaires and many  of the CCP members have sent money out of the country a long time ago and their family members have already left china - they have bought golden passports in small countries like Cyprus.

I read it too. It started in Falun Gong's paper, the Epoch Times. Did you ever wonder how an anti-CCP cult could get a paper in 35 countries and spend billions in advertising? Here's WIkipedia's opening take on the Epoch Times:

If you start looking up information on China in Google or Bing, you will be flooded with Falun Gong propaganda in the form of the Epoch Times.

8 hours ago, Arauna said:

To save face, the CCP is becoming aggressive under Xi Ping and may even go to a minor war to show their strength ... or to give the country a feeling of unified nationalistic pride......   There are many Chinese who love his aggressive attitude.

Western media like Falun Gong's becomes very proficient at seeing how the West acts and projects such actions on China. If China went to war one-one-hundredth as often as the West goes to war, they would suddenly be the most draconian regime ever imagined.

8 hours ago, Arauna said:

I have been watching what is going on in China since 2006 when they were caught the first time with organ harvesting.

They were never caught with organ harvesting. Being caught implies evidence, not just claims from Falun Gong.

8 hours ago, Arauna said:

When it becomes public knowledge then the CCP will come down on the perpetrator with full force if CCP loses face.  Otherwise you can get the job done any way you like.

This is one of the easiest ways to make conspiracies sound more plausible, too. Just say that corruption is a "policy" but that you should not get caught. And if you do, then say that the punishment was only meted out against the corruption because they were caught. What you seem not to realize is that the laws against corruption have been very harsh against all types of financial corruption for decades. There is a lot of inconsistency in claiming that the CCP wants full control, wants corruption, but allows governers to get the job done any way they like, and wants to punish corruption when it's caught.

It's the same way in which one can claim that the only reason 80 percent of Chinese people declare positive support the government is because if they didn't they would be "disappeared." (Which would tend to make it 100% positive support.)

It's the same way that one would say that all reports that are negative about China must be true, and all reports that are positive must be naive. The world is a little more nuanced than this. There are plenty of negative things to say about China. You ask me why I appear to defend things like live "against-your-will" organ harvesting. Of course, I wouldn't defend it. But I also think it would be nearly impossible to hide all the evidence about such claims. I also don't think it fits the idea of the CCP always trying to save face. And it's definitely not necessary as a way to make money judging by the strength of the Chinese economy.

I understand the need to call me arrogant because I quote books that you think I'm calling you an ignoramus. I apologize for making you feel like this is intended. I actually enjoy the conversation because you seem to be the most well-read on issues regarding China. I do not believe that you yourself are racist and fear-mongering, yet you defend the information that comes from the racist and fear-mongering sources. It's those sources I am addressing. This is not personal.

Christians are not supposed to slander. And I think that making statements about people and governments that could be true, but which we do not know to be true can border on slander. You make these claims while claiming to "know" them to be true. Or you claim they have been "proven" to be true. Perhaps you even have good evidence rather than just claims from other sources making the same claims. I'm still interested because you might be able to provide this kind of evidence on some of the claims you bring up.

I am always ready to reconsider, but my opinion will be based on the preponderance of the evidence, not just claims.

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5 hours ago, JW Insider said:

China does not like Western journalists

That is an understatement.  I watched a debate today with Chinese government officials. It was held at oxford university - where several scholars ( including a German one - their research is thorough) and people who know what is going on in China as well as Chinese citizens, who asked questions about family members still in detention. These officials are so smooth.... In this debate it was revealed again how Chinese secret police follow all visitors around.  Since 2013, after Xi ping became the party leader, there has been a drastic change ..... towards more aggressive policies. He has 'purged' most of his opposition in the CCP.  It also came out in this debate that in the Muslim provinces there are road blocks every few hundred meters where peoples papers are inspected.  This corroborates other accounts I have listened to. it is not slander.

There are also problems with their old room-mate Russia.  They are becoming too aggressive for Russia. 

I recently listened to the story of the South African and his American friend who "fled" to USA after living in China for 15 years i (Yes that racist! who loved China but was being harassed by secret police where ever he went.... and his wife was threatened at work - who was a doctor at a clinic in China.  He spoke Chinese and the secret police did not know that he could understand what they were saying... )  He loved china and its people but he narrowly escaped the regime  because the regime was becoming too paranoid about him making films in the countryside.  He used to ride around on his motorbike and make films about the little villages and the countryside.  He was not allowed to talk to anyone.

I listened to the account of an ex-Chinese woman: she was talking about her husband who was a surgeon.  She used to catch him in a state of staring at the ceiling - almost in a stupor.  Eventually he confessed to her that he was harvesting corneas from young healthy children... for the government..... she eventually fled china and left him.

5 hours ago, JW Insider said:

but is blocked in mainland China.[8]

You have to please explain to me why all western media and western newspapers are purged  in China  (unless cleaned up) because they are too western.  Certain words are not longer being used -  like in the novel of 1984.  You also have to explain to me why all foreign students (students who studied abroad were now taken into custody in Hong Kong) or are followed by secret police to ensure they have not been infected by western ideas of freedom or religion.  Please explain why google and other media cannot operate without agreements for the CCP to block all unwanted content.  Does that sound like a healthy "free" situation to you ?   .

What will they do if they catch a JWs with literature?  All house Christians are now being arrested and neighbors are encouraged to snitch on neighbors who are suspiciously religious.  So according to you, if this happens to a witness it will be slander of the government..... not reality.       I think you are living in  la la land - not the real planet .....  you remind me of  lord Chamberlain who came back from Hitler with a valueless "peace agreement".  

I met a 60 year old  Chinese woman in field service who fled to one of the ex- soviet states and has spent her time there.  She is desperately trying to remain in one of these countries and not go back to china.  she is not religious but just wants to get out from under the extreme control.  Unfortunately most of these countries only give Chinese 3 months tourist visa.  

So by your condemnation of a Chinese-owned newspaper in USA, which tries to expose what is going on ...,  it is clear to me that you do not like the idea that people who practice a house religion in private and are persecuted by a government just for this fact....... if they go to another country and try to make people aware of their persecution and the "killing" of their members by horrendous live removal of organs..... by publishing real experiences in  newspapers..... that the problem lies with them .... and not with the authoritarian government?  Is that logical thinking?  So you would be against witnesses telling of their horrendous experiences of family members disappearing ..... and if the government denies this..... it means the witnesses are lying?  What financial gain would a poor person get by exposing the fact that  they cannot track their family members and just want justice?  They want nothing else - just justice!

In France they have BIG problems with Muslims but I have not read any article that they are putting large numbers of Muslims in prison... Neither have I heard  stories trickling out of France that their organs being used.  What they are doing in china is unethical and inhumane.  Yes, you are good at googling up documents that sell the CCP propaganda .....you are good at that...  but that is about it.....The time that your son was there was during the BOOM.   Westerners were courted for their value....especially if you were a professor or someone connected to the USA government.  Many of our government officials had their children sit on Chinese boards and raked in millions.  Biden himself has indicated that his son has now stepped down because it is making his presidential bid very  uncomfortable.  

Remember Jehovah has given us the right to CHOOSE our god and our own religion... the bible indicates that this is the only time we disobey authorities - when they prescribe our religion for us.  China is doing just that. 

5 hours ago, JW Insider said:

Being caught implies evidence

Yes - a doctor defected and I listened to his testimony. ......  and more and more stories are leaking out of the horrendous treatment of those with a religion. (Doctors involved are also talking). I watched a documentary of a Chinese doctor who defected and was researching if the organ harvesting is still going on.   The United nations told China to stop after they were first caught out.   CCP just got smarter and closed all venues for news to leak out ...... but it has not stopped.

No religion is allowed unless approved by government.  ... and all religious books are 'changed' to reflect the cult of worship of state.  People who have come out of those uighur religious re-training centers and managed to flee tell how they are forced to sing the anthem and write tests on government propaganda which is rammed down their throats day and night.  Their family members are rounded up after they have fled to stop them speaking out.  It is tyranny! 

The doctors who spoke out were not Falun Gong..... but surgeons that were forced into doing  inhumane things! Their consciences bothered them even though not religious.

6 hours ago, JW Insider said:

ave spread conspiracy theories such as QAnon and anti-vaccination propaganda.[7

I read this about an US  doctor who spoke out and said that hydroxy-chloroquinine works.  The US press destroyed his reputation by claiming all kinds of far-right things.   If this is not "cancelling " a persons reputation by associating them with these organizations.  You are drinking the cup of propaganda.   I am surprised they include racist in there. 

  I watched an interview again yesterday on abc australia...  I think it was.... and doctors are citing the newest studies which PROVE that hydroxy-chloroquine works.  Unfortunately - in USA - the press would immediately brand such as person a Trump supporter, racist, Q-anon supporter,  an anti-vaxer etc.....  the propaganda is ludicrous and this is what is leading everyone to the new totalitarian state where every word will be controlled   !!!!!   All the clues of  totalitarianism is already here!  Once such as situation is installed there will be no way to turn it back.  This is why I believe the worst tribulation will be here..... and we will not be able to buy and sell because you will be forced into proving loyalty to the state.  Hopefully Jah steps in before this goes too far!

6 hours ago, JW Insider said:

What you seem not to realize is that the laws against corruption have been very harsh against all types

The popular way to put CCP opposition in  prison is to claim that they were corrupt..... that is the way to put a clean face on things when you purge opposition.

6 hours ago, JW Insider said:

80 percent of Chinese people declare positive support the government

Their phones are tapped, everywhere they go is facial recognition... everyone is afraid to say anything too loud because if it reeks of any anti-government or freedom sentiments and it gets out - you are done for.  


6 hours ago, JW Insider said:

comes from the racist and fear-mongering sources.

Then the 'reality' is racist.  By the way- you cannot get citizenship..........  you are not Chinese.   in USA anyone could become a citizen......if you enter legally.   Not in China.  


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4 hours ago, Arauna said:

I listened to the account of an ex-Chinese woman: ..... he confessed to her that he was harvesting corneas from young healthy children.

The first thing that struck me is the "ex" factor, reminding me all too well of ex-JWs. (or ex- anyone for that matter). How much of their stories are the whole story? Are they telling us all the facts, or only select pieces?

I cannot imagine that there are "cornea less" children walking around in China. Sounds more like she couldn't stand her husband 😃

Edit: I suppose he killed the children

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1 hour ago, Anna said:

And then there there this statement to the UN by Hamid Sabi. @JW Insider how credible do you see this as?


I don’t pretend to weigh in credibly on this but it did strike as odd that he appears to feel he must explain that it is wrong to cut organs from living people, and that the fact that others are benefited does not justify it.

1 hour ago, JW Insider said:

especially after Prince's death in 2016

Ah—finally. Something I can weigh in on with some fervor. If it wasn’t so crass and I wasn’t so scared of the old hen, I would use this reference to hawk my book once more.

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2 hours ago, Anna said:

And then there there this statement to the UN by Hamid Sabi. @JW Insider how credible do you see this as?

Credible? It's Falun Gong. My opinion of Falun Gong is that they are laughably and ridiculously and incredibly incredible.

I have already expressed some of those opinions here, and we have never even gotten into most of their other incredible claims. But I will quote someone who has done some of the legwork here on the "China Tribunal" statement read by Hamid Sabi.

There are many sources and pieces to this, but they have been most clearly stated here on a website called the TheGrayZone.com :

The rest of this post will be quotes of large portions of the article, below, and I will highlight the portion related to the UN presentation, but the whole thing is here: https://thegrayzone.com/2019/09/30/reports-china-organ-harvesting-cult-falun-gong/


A wave of corporate media reports on Chinese organ harvesting rely without acknowledgement on front groups connected to the far-right Falun Gong cult, whose followers believe “Trump was sent by heaven to destroy the Communist Party.”

By Ryan McCarthy

Western corporate media outlets have gone wild with claims that the Chinese state is “harvesting” the organs of ethnic minorities and political opposition figures. But an investigation by The Grayzone has found that these allegations originate from front groups run by the far-right opposition cult Falun Gong.

Falun Gong, whose devotees can often be seen clad in yellow and performing coordinated qi gong routines in crowded city centers, runs an ultra-conservative, staunchly pro-Donald Trump media network that has been compared to Alex Jones’ Infowars.

According to a former member of the fringe religious group, Falun Gong believes that an apocalyptic judgement day is soon approaching and “that Trump was sent by heaven to destroy the [Chinese] Communist Party.”

In order to understand, then, how heavily politicized rumors from an obscure far-right cult found their way into the headlines, it is essential to trace the roots of the story through an elaborate network of front groups.

In June 2019, a London-based organization called the China Tribunal published a report claiming that the Chinese government has been systematically executing and harvesting the organs of members of Falun Gong, a leading force of opposition to Beijing in the diaspora.

The China Tribunal describes itself as an “independent tribunal into forced organ harvesting from prisoners of conscience in China.” Most Western journalists took the organization at its word.

Up to and after it published the report, the China Tribunal received scattered coverage from various mainstream media outlets, including the Wall Street Journal, Forbes, and The Guardian. In September, the coverage ramped up considerably after the China Tribunal presented its case to the UN Human Rights Council, with major outlets like The Independent and Reuters joining in.

One thing all this reporting has in common is that it assumes the China Tribunal is truly “independent.” On its website, the China Tribunal says that it was “initiated by the International Coalition to End Transplant Abuse in China (ETAC), an international not for profit organisation, with headquarters in Australia and National Committees in the UK, USA, Canada, New Zealand and Australia.”

So what is ETAC, really?

On ETAC’s website, one finds a “management” page with a list of people, devoid of any information except their names, photographs, and positions in the organization. The executive director and co-founder is Susie Hughes; Margo MacVicar is named as the New Zealand national manager; Rebecca James is the UK national manager for outreach, and so on.

Where do these figures come from, and what brought them together? The website has no bios. But follow the names, and it soon becomes apparent that there is another connection apart from ETAC — the Epoch Times.

A far-right anti-China propaganda network run by a cult

The Epoch Times, which uses the slogan “Truth and Tradition,” has marketed itself as just another conservative, pro-Trump media outlet.

But NBC News published a major exposé in August revealing it to be the media arm of the opposition cult Falun Gong. The report details the bizarre workings of the Falun Gong organization, showing how the Epoch Times is carving a place for itself in American right-wing media.

NBC News found that the Falun Gong website spent more than $1.5 million on roughly 11,000 pro-Trump advertisements on Facebook in just six months, “more than any organization outside of the Trump campaign itself, and more than most Democratic presidential candidates have spent on their own campaigns.”

[removed Falun Gong's swastika symbols, and their explanation]

So where do the ETAC managers fit in with Falun Gong? Susie Hughes has photographer credits on several Epoch Times articles (her name seems to have been scrubbed, the photos merely credited to “The Epoch Times,” but the credit still shows up on Google searches at the time of writing). Margo MacVicar has numerous articles gushing about Shen Yun, Falun Gong’s traveling dance show. Rebecca “Becky” James shows up organizing a Falun Gong art exhibition in Bristol and sharing vegan drink recipes.

ETAC’s UK national manager for initiatives, Andy Moody, is credited by Epoch Times as a reporter for its sibling NTD, or New Tang Dynasty Television, Falun Gong’s TV arm. (Concerned Canadians have noted that the cult’s propaganda network has received millions of their tax dollars worth of disproportionate funding.)

ETAC’s UK communications coordinator Victoria Ledwidge appears in another Epoch Times article, coming to greet Shen Yun performers in London and, of course, acclaiming the “amazing” performance.

As one goes down the list of ETAC management, these Falun Gong connections spring up for almost everyone. ETAC is very clearly a Falun Gong front group.

Neither ETAC nor China Tribunal discloses these connections, but it hardly takes an intrepid investigative journalist to find them. So why was this level of basic research a step too far for, say, Owen Bowcott at the Guardian, who does little more than transmit ETAC’s talking points?

In fact, Falun Gong itself is actively spreading this “organ harvesting” rumor in major North American cities. The Grayzone’s Ben Norton saw some of the cult’s activists standing in central Toronto next to a giant banner titled “Stop Forced Live Organ Harvesting in China.”

They handed out pamphlets to passers-by declaring that the “Chinese Communist Regime Is Slaughtering Innocents” (using a painting as supposed evidence), while preaching about the “great health benefits” of Falun Gong.

The far-right cult is clearly using these rumors to proselytize and recruit new supporters.

‘Research’ overseen by a cult that sidelines real doctors

Turning to the China Tribunal’s report itself, it is apparent that, despite the authors’ claim to “have maintained distance and separation from ETAC in order to ensure their independence,” they rely heavily on information curated for them by ETAC.

The introduction, after describing ETAC as “a not-for-profit coalition of lawyers, medical professionals and others”, goes on to state that “ETAC’s main interest has been the alleged suffering of practitioners of ‘Falun Gong’, a group performing meditative exercises and pursuing Truthfulness, Compassion, and Forbearance, but regarded by the People’s Republic of China (PRC) since 1999 as an ‘anti-humanitarian, anti-society and anti-science cult’.”

It is understandable that critics might hesitate to take the PRC’s characterization of Falun Gong at face value. But it is easy to make a fair evaluation of the group’s true character simply by perusing their own publications, where one will learn, for instance, that modern science was invented by aliens as part of a scheme to take over human bodies; or that feminism, environmentalism, and homosexuality are part of Satan’s plan to make us into communists; or that race-mixing severs our connection to the gods.

. . .

The report summary goes on to state: “Evidence was submitted by ETAC for the first hearing, amplified by further evidence following the first and second evidence hearings.” So despite framing their investigation as separate and independent of ETAC, the authors admit that they began with evidence fed to them by ETAC.

Their reliance on ETAC is further highlighted later when several doctors are named who expressed skepticism about the Falun Gong organ harvesting narrative. These doctors are listed as “doctors speaking favourably of the PRC.”

The report then states:

“All of these doctors were invited by the Tribunal to participate in the Tribunal’s proceedings. Their participation would have greatly assisted the Tribunal in its work; they all declined the invitations. Further, although each did contribute in person to a recent report by an Australian Government Committee their contributions have been subject to review by ETAC that reveals that they produced no hard evidence to support what they said and could be criticised for their methodology or their experience in transplant surgery.”

In other words, the China Tribunal didn’t see any need to consider their testimony, because ETAC had already looked at it and declared it to be bogus.

One of these doctors, Francis Delmonico, was contacted by the science journal Nature for its article on the China Tribunal’s report — a rare case of a dissenting opinion being registered, however grudgingly.

Delmonico was asked specifically for his opinion on a research paper cited by the China Tribunal, which was published on the scientific archive, SocArXiv, by Matthew Robinson – a research fellow of the famously impartial Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation:

“But Francis Delmonico, a surgeon at Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston, says that although there is evidence that organs were taken from prisoners in the past — which he condemns — he is not convinced by the SocArXiv evidence because it is not direct. Delmonico is chair of the World Health Organization’s Task Force on Donation and Transplantation of Human Organs and Tissues and has been supporting organ-donation reform in China for more than a decade, although he made his comments to Nature in a personal capacity.”

Lobbyists for an anti-Iran cult go to bat for an anti-China one

The China Tribunal’s report is not the first alleging that the Chinese government is murdering Falun Gong prisoners en masse to harvest their organs. It relies heavily on an earlier document, known as the Kilgour-Matas report, which was initially released in 2006 and updated several times since then, with the title “Bloody Harvest.”

This previous report was commissioned by the Coalition to Investigate the Persecution of Falun Gong in China. Unlike ETAC, CIPFG plainly states that it is a Falun Gong organization.

More interesting connections arise when probing the backgrounds of the co-authors of the report, David Kilgour and David Matas.

David Matas is the senior legal counsel for B’nai Brith Canada, a right-wing pro-Israel lobby that works hard to tar any critique of the occupation of Palestine as anti-semitism. He was also . . . [4 paragraphs removed here]

So both authors of “Bloody Harvest” advocate on behalf of, not one, but two cults that also happen to be darlings of regime-change enthusiasts in and around Western governments. (The latest edition of “Bloody Harvest” includes a third co-author, Ethan Gutmann, who, notably, has been affiliated with the Gulf monarchy-funded Brookings Institution and the neoconservative Foundation for Defense of Democracies.)

. . .

A few reporters notice Falun Gong’s seamy side

In March, Jia Tolentino published her impressions of Shen Yun in the New Yorker. Like the aforementioned NBC piece on the Epoch Times, Tolentino ‘s article shows that more and more people are noticing that there is something very odd about Falun Gong.

From the “baroque and surreal” Shen Yun dance-propaganda show, which bills itself as a last bastion of genuine Chinese culture, she moves to consider some other very troubling aspects of the Falun Gong organization, such as their penchant for resisting journalistic inquiry and harassing critics.

Tolentino also mentions a 2017 Washington Post investigation by Simon Denyer, which, while hardly a pro-PRC puff piece, casts serious doubt on the claims of the Kilgour-Matas report on organ harvesting.

Denyer may be the only journalist in the mainstream US press who conducted an independent investigation on organ harvesting in China and seriously questions Falun Gong’s organ harvesting narrative. Naturally, Ethan Gutmann felt compelled to run a rebuttal to Denyer’s report on ETAC’s website — and one can only imagine the kinds of emails and phone calls Denyer has been getting since he dared to publish that piece.

For most of the Western corporate media, the “Bloody Harvest” horror story is too ghoulishly titillating to subject to serious scrutiny, especially when the “Yellow Peril”-style villain is an increasingly powerful state threatening the old hegemonies.

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3 hours ago, Anna said:

And then there there this statement to the UN by Hamid Sabi. @JW Insider how credible do you see this as?


In 1:18 , that scene make first impression on me when i saw it --- Lady spent some time in shopping and returned with full bag of food (grocery and similar) because she didn't find interest to listen some speakers and some themes.

Anna, sorry for interruption, but that was stronger than me. :) 

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8 minutes ago, Srecko Sostar said:

that scene make first impression on me when i saw it

But what impression? Why do you think she wasn't interested? Maybe she wrote the speech and already knew the contents? Maybe she is purposely distracting to lessen the impact? Maybe she is CIA, Falun Gong, CCP, hungry?

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9 hours ago, JW Insider said:

But what impression? Why do you think she wasn't interested? Maybe she wrote the speech and already knew the contents? Maybe she is purposely distracting to lessen the impact? Maybe she is CIA, Falun Gong, CCP, hungry?

I seem to have failed to write the word — perhaps, and than this or that. Perhaps she was late due to traffic jam.

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16 hours ago, JW Insider said:

A few reporters notice Falun Gong’s seamy side

So - if people are odd - it gives us the right to get rid of them and put them in custody?   JWs are odd to the rest of the world.... so it is excellent justification to imprison them when they are odd? As far as I know falun gong swear to speak the truth and too many people were joining them.  CCP is extremely paranoid about any group becoming so popular. 

As I said before - Sweden has violent Muslims putting down bombs, rioting and burning - even telling swedes to leave the country if they do not like to adjust to arabs; Holland has Muslims killing people; France has rioting Muslims... but I do not hear of any of these countries putting them  in prison for their ethnicity.  Only those who have committed crimes are in prison.

Is it not strange to you all that soooo many religious groups, who managed to get out of China, are sponsoring media outlets to try to get the heavily suppressed/guarded news out of China?  If it was just falun Gong one could say there is not a problem.... but it is muslims and house-christians who are targeted as well - all groups.... CCP is pananoid.  They are now ordering people to put photos of Xi ping in their homes..... Are we going to get NBC to say these people are far-right as well?   These atrocities have been hidden way too long and china has gotten away with horrors while the west was sleeping. Busch, clinton, obama - all of them said nothing because their administrations were cashing in on the boom.

Remember - dead people cannot talk for themselves.  They are dead victims.  So it is only those family members who are alive who can tell their stories - or those people who were in prison themselves, were tortured  and by sheer luck of circumstance got away.  This is what is happening now. Can you blame them for trying to expose the horror?  or has the world become so desensitized that they do not see something which does not add up here? 

I do not understand the reasoning?   So 'oddness'  ( Falon gong was so popular that CCP became afraid - they then used terror tactics and torture to make people renounce this faith and if they did not they were viewed as fodder )  Does this justify the many inhuman actions?  No matter how odd one may be - a person has a god-given right to your own thoughts and prayers in private..... 

16 hours ago, JW Insider said:

-right cult Falun Gong

Any group that is seen as anti communist or anti-muslin are called far-right in the west. So where is the justification to call people who believe in speaking the truth (falun gong) to be far-right?  Even if they are laughable in your opinion .... they still have a right to choose their own religion and not to be harassed by the government for practicing it in their own house. They are persecuted for doing the exercises in their own home. House Christians are persecuted for having an unedited bible. There is NO justification for killing them and hiding the evidence.

while I do listen to far-left news outlets - I am always aware they are far-left  - similar to those labelled far right ....  I am always aware they have a certain outlook.  Does this mean I do not listen to news?  No - I filter out the propaganda. NBC is not unbiased.  We all know that these news outlets are bias and owned by billionaires with far-left views. Have you seen their company policies for reporters?  Each reporter has to adhere to the policies.  This means you do not speak about taboo subjects.  Your opponents are labelled. 

There is a book on the market - written by a Canadian human rights lawyer who is totally a-political.  He took many cases of Falun Gong family members and other religions (prisoners of conscience) who are and have been persecuted in china. He talks about the heart and lung transplant tourism in china which was booming.  This was funding the military.  The military first used organs of prisoners. 

He says it is hundreds of thousands of people... so if you refuse to do military service - you may end up on one of these tables..... .They have organs available on a specific date.... you could book a transplant a month or two weeks before it is done.  They confirm that a matching organ will be available.  He said he did research to write this book because he knew that no-one else would do this research..... after having spoken to so many people seeking his help.

 "Bloody Harvest" -   it was first published in 2007 and has been updated. David Matas and David Kilgour 

I also listened to another interview where they phone hospitals and pretend to be doctors making arrangements for patients..... same thing. ... organs available....  guaranteed to match the tissue of patient.



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